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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 08 2011 08:08 Klogon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:59 MaestroSC wrote:On May 08 2011 07:51 Klogon wrote:First of all, if Cruncher is proven to have cheated, we will take action. We have no problem taking action against even the most high profile of players (ex. Dimaga and TSL2/3) but try to do so with careful deliberation. Please do not think our actions here are simply us spitefully swinging a banhammer. You'd be surprised by the pages of discussions we have of actions that involve high-profile community members, Idra included. Also, regarding the "harassing". On May 08 2011 07:05 Karthane wrote:
I don't necessarily think he was encouraging people to "harrass" them. He just said if you have a problem with it message Chill. Whatever though, in the end i think it's better to have IdrA here, streaming on TL. Brings more people here. Hell, he even got 20k to watch Sotg. On May 08 2011 07:20 Mysticvoid wrote:
I feel the 2 day ban was justified. Calling someone a waste a life is pretty low and should be punished. All fine and dandy, what I am not ok with is punishing someone for something they said outside of the forums. Idra didn't tell anyone to harass Chill, Idra said and I quote "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you." Yes he did tell his fans to PM Chill, did he tell them to insult him or harass him? No he didnt and I'm sorry but if mods can't handle getting PMs from people maybe they should reconsider being mods.
Idra on his twitter tried to imply that by being banned, he could no longer stream. That was false. And if we assume he knew it was also false (he probably did), we can then assume that he was miliciously misleading his thousands of twitter followers into a rage against Chill. Thus I think it is fair to say Idra did encourage his fans to go harass Chill. so we can assume that since idra said "pm chill because of him i cant stream" he meant "send chill hatemail and i am not going to stream anymore because of him even thought i know i can" but when cruncher said "well i had the stream open but i muted it and minimized it" we assume he didnt use it to his own benefit at all? So we assume everything Idra says is inherently evil and malicious And we assume Cruncher is innocent of cheating regardless of evidence to the contrary. ? If you take a step back from your bias and actually look at it in context, it is very clear what Idra intended to do. Do you need evidence? Just look at Chill's inbox full of hatemail. Honestly, this is not a very big leap of logic and I honestly do hope that you can follow it and see why it is a reasonable conclusion to say that Idra was a bit malicious with his tweet.
"Do you need evidence?"
+ Show Spoiler +
I respectfully have to disagree with you on this one. Its been stated by other mods that evidence is indeed needed for action to be taken against someone. Its unfortunate that Chill received hate mail, but that in itself is not evidence against anyone but the person who sent the hate mail.
If I write a nasty letter to my boss because my co-worker said "talk to Mr. Watts if you don't like this" I am the one at fault, not my co-worker. I'm not disagreeing with the the ban itself. I do not understand though how assumptions based on the actions of a group of random people is evidence enough to indict.
There's a grey area where the only connection between Idra's tweet and the hate mail chill received is an assumption. Idra did say to "PM chill if this upsets you" but as a reasonable human being I certainly did not interpret that to mean that I should send Chill hate mail. Obviously there are a lot of people who did interpret it that way, but that doesn't provide factual evidence of the intent.
That's just my opinion though.
Respectfully ^^
(I'm not an Idra fan by the way)
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pff crunsher is a little boy, idra is the man.
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United States42691 Posts
On May 08 2011 20:07 Bisu_Wolf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:05 baeric wrote:idrajit Greg Fields wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets youno he don't want to apologize, he wants the perm ban :-| source: http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit Wait Wait Wait... This got IdrA 90 days? Okay, I have to slightly disagree with the decision made. Yes, what he initially said deserves a ban. But the justification was that IdrA had all his fans spam Chill's box from his Twitter account. I see nothing wrong with what IdrA posted here... He does not ask his fans to berate Chill, just send him a PM if you think the temp ban upsets you. Now, I guarantee there were at least 50 or so people that took it to the next level but that should not give reason to up the ban from my perspective. And, for those that do not think what Cruncher did was wrong... I have to COMPLETELY disagree. If you think he was ghosting, what's not to stop him from at the 5 minute mark to alt + tab check Idra's stream and then get back in game... 15 seconds you know exactly what is coming. It's like people saying I have used MH in the past but do not anymore. No way you believe them. TL:DR IdrA deserved a ban but do not think the 90 day post decision was made without slight bias.
If I get a speeding ticket and I think it's totally unfair, not because I wasn't driving too fast but because I think I should be allowed to break the speed limit, then I don't train hundreds of monkeys to go to the house of the police officer who enforced the law and hurl shit. Instead I use the established structures within society to try and reform the law or move to another country with laws I prefer.
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where is the like-button?
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On May 08 2011 20:07 Bisu_Wolf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:05 baeric wrote:idrajit Greg Fields wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets youno he don't want to apologize, he wants the perm ban :-| source: http://twitter.com/#!/idrajit Wait Wait Wait... This got IdrA 90 days? Okay, I have to slightly disagree with the decision made. Yes, what he initially said deserves a ban. But the justification was that IdrA had all his fans spam Chill's box from his Twitter account. I see nothing wrong with what IdrA posted here... He does not ask his fans to berate Chill, just send him a PM if you think the temp ban upsets you. Now, I guarantee there were at least 50 or so people that took it to the next level but that should not give reason to up the ban from my perspective. And, for those that do not think what Cruncher did was wrong... I have to COMPLETELY disagree. If you think he was ghosting, what's not to stop him from at the 5 minute mark to alt + tab check Idra's stream and then get back in game... 15 seconds you know exactly what is coming. It's like people saying I have used MH in the past but do not anymore. No way you believe them. TL:DR IdrA deserved a ban but do not think the 90 day post decision was made without slight bias.
The point is there was no need for any of it. His TL ban didnt stop him streaming, he uses JustinTV for that, and would still be features in the TL streams section.
Idra CHOSE to withhold his stream because he was a little pissed off, which is childish enough in itself, and then directed blame towards TL staff. He might not have worded the twitter viscously but he knew loads of people would send insulting PMs to chill.
There are places to go to discuss shit like this, the feedback forum and sending a PM to the admin yourself, not recruiting 100 12yo fanboys to do it for you. TBH though idra shouldve just taken his punishment, he broke the rules, and he should be used to 2 day bans by now.
Good job by the TL admins.
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Sad day for the TL community. And i dont mean that TL itself will loose visitors/ ad money etc. I mean the people taht make up the community. When you have a plaethora of troll mods/staff/ex-staff who can get away with anything they say, then ban temp Idra for saying something mildly offensive in his own stream thread.
You just took away Idra streaming with commentary for atleast 20-30k people. All out of spite. Yeah you can hide behind the "rules" but everyone knows whats the relationship between Idra and TL mods. Any chance he gets he will speak his mind and mods just wait for the opportunity to ban him. And who looses ? The community. GG tl
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This has been blown way out of proportions. I don't think IdrA would care even if he was banned for a year, as long as his stream stayed featured on TL.
The stream is all that counts as it's a part of his livelihood, posting doesn't matter as he can interact with his fans via twitter.
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On May 08 2011 20:27 biz87 wrote:
pff crunsher is a little boy, idra is the man.
A man takes responsibility for his own actions and behaves with dignity in society.
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On May 08 2011 20:27 biz87 wrote:
pff crunsher is a little boy, idra is the man.
Why does "the man" act like a 13 year old child then?
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On May 08 2011 06:50 Kyhol wrote:
How the fuck can anyone be a fan of this guy?
Frankly this goes through my head at least once or twice a week. He's kind of gone beyond 'the villain' and more of 'the elitist jerk'. I'm thrilled to see a 90 day after his response to the 2 day; it saddens me that there has to be the bans at all because it tends to stir and separate the community a bit, but this was just ridiculous.
Love KwarK's analogy:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 08 2011 20:27 KwarK wrote:
If I get a speeding ticket and I think it's totally unfair, not because I wasn't driving too fast but because I think I should be allowed to break the speed limit, then I don't train hundreds of monkeys to go to the house of the police officer who enforced the law and hurl shit. Instead I use the established structures within society to try and reform the law or move to another country with laws I prefer.
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good decision, but i doubt he will ever learn how to behave like an adult
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United States42691 Posts
On May 08 2011 20:32 Butcherski wrote:
You just took away Idra streaming with commentary for atleast 20-30k people.
We took nothing. Teamliquid and Idra's stream are in no way connected.
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On May 08 2011 20:24 PlaGuE_R wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 20:18 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:52 walklightwhat wrote:On May 08 2011 19:48 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:39 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:36 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:28 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:24 KwarK wrote:On May 08 2011 19:21 Tornadium wrote:On May 08 2011 19:19 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
There is no connection between Idra's ability to stream and the stream on teamliquid. The only time Idra's stream has been taken off teamliquid is when Idra contacted Hot_Bid while banned and requested that it was removed. Teamliquid simply embeds the stream, it is hosted and streamed elsewhere. There is absolutely no reason why Idra couldn't stream while banned. Exactly. He could stream. He didn't say otherwise anywhere at any one point or time. He just refused to stream because he felt his ban was a joke. He's telling people to contact the person who banned him, the responsible party for the situation. TL banned Idra causing the current event. How is Chill the responsible party for Idra deciding not to stream when the stream is in no way related to teamliquid? He's a grown man, he's responsible for his own decisions. Unless i'm wrong the stream was Hosted and sponsored by TL right? They had ads on his stream i believe. Refusing to stream is basically a protest to his ban. Nothing more. Still doesn't change the fact that people are lying. He didn't say he couldn't stream. True he is a grown man, however he's responsible for someone else's interpretation or version of Idra's decisions. He didn't do anything that you're claiming he did. For a purely neutral standpoint the ban is based off of what a Mod thinks he meant. disclaimer: this is to the best of my inside knowledge but if it is in any way inaccurate then I apologise The stream is not hosted on tl, it is on justin.tv or something. teamliquid is in no way affiliated with the stream and has no control over it. The stream is not sponsored by tl, tl does not endorse it nor gain any ad revenue from it save from the ads that appear on every tl page, stream or no. The ads on his stream provide revenue for Idra, not tl. He is a partner (or whatever they call it) with whatever streaming service he uses, he plays ads and they send him $. teamliquid is in no way involved in this relationship. Refusing to stream is his right but that doesn't mean that the two things are connected. It is absolutely unacceptable for a member of this forum to encourage the spamming of a moderator with protest pms. Fair enough, I was under the impression that TL sponsored the stream. Regardless, i don't understand why it's unacceptable for a large number of people to protest a ban if they feel that the community they are participating in made an extremely bad decision. Chill is a moderator right? Can't he handle a little critism of his moderation? We have a website feedback forum here. Idra has been here for years, he knows this. Idra also knows he has an army of barely literate 12 year olds at his command (I've read a lot of the PMs Chill got, you'd be amazed) who don't fully understand how cause and effect works. This forum should be a pleasant place for starcraft fans to interact. Chill was doing his duty by handing Idra a slap on the wrist (again the 2 day was incredibly lenient). It was not anything personal and if Idra had a problem with it then it was a problem with the rules of the site, not with the staff member who volunteers their time to enforce them. Idra did not say "I think the rules of teamliquid are too strict and you guys should debate them in the website feedback forum". He said, and I paraphrase, "I'm going to fuck over you idiots and it is in some way this guys fault, ps: don't look into whether I actually broke the rules, just send him any venom you have lying around". I like this site as it is. Many people do not and they are welcome to suggest improvements or to go to one of our rivals. That is their choice. However this is still our site and we do not deserve abuse for upholding the standards that make this site the place I love. Then permanently ban him already. If he has no respect for your rules, your moderators and your community it's pretty ridiculous to keep letting him come back. I fully agree. I second that. Also, Someone was saying that idra didnt even retaliate and that chill bit off more then he could chew. that's unbelievably idiotic thing to say. IdrA is a user on this forum, he has to respect the rules, just like anyone else, and if he 'retaliates' he'll be perm banned from the biggest sc2 forum in the world as well as lose a ton of credibility. If he actually tries and mount up some kind of "attack" on TL, I'm 100% sure that EG will drop him. That's not the kind of behaviour a professional team wants from their player. Imagine, some american football was refused an interview on ESPN and he sent his fans to egg/vandalize the ESPN studios, he would be kicked out of the league.
So you are comparing pm-ing an mod to actual vandalizing? brilliant.
I can show you a bunch of (swedish aleast) pro-sports players that has refused interviews with different channels b/c of a grudge. And they did surely not get dropped from their team b/c of that.
Rather they got more attention and the sponsors made more money. So as long that he is not doing anything illegal, i find no reason to why he would be dropped.
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On May 08 2011 10:17 chameleonism wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 10:08 tofucake wrote:
The 90 day was a result of a discussion among IdrA and various TL staff members. It is still funny that people assume they know Idra's intent for his twitter post. There is nothing wrong with telling people to msg a moderator if they are upset with the decision. It is actually the most logical thing to do. He did not say, SPAM CHILL ALL DAY. What people did were results of their own actions. So, is TL saying you are not supposed to express your opinion about something that goes on inside the site? If we disagree, are we not supposed to post about it or msg a mod? =/ Also, I fully understand TL can do whatever they want, but the site is supposed to be an unbiased place for people to express opinions (from what I've read from mods in the past). I wouldn't have said my above statement if this was not how the site had been presented to me in the past.
I agree with this. Moral censorship is not a good thing and pretty harmful to the freedom of speech that we all enjoy. People should not be normalized.
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i find idra's bm hilarious prolly should be temp banned for a day or two but this 90 day ban seem a bit harsh, gonna miss him 
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On May 08 2011 20:23 JesusOurSaviour wrote:THat's gotta be one of the funniest threads. Nice Rhyming by all the people who contributed
wtf? i read the thread and it said its 18 of may,lol
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Um did I miss something? Why is this thread open again, was closed earlier today.
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On May 08 2011 20:36 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 20:32 Butcherski wrote:
You just took away Idra streaming with commentary for atleast 20-30k people. We took nothing. Teamliquid and Idra's stream are in no way connected.
Bad choice of words maybe but what you said isn't true.
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On May 08 2011 20:36 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 20:32 Butcherski wrote:
You just took away Idra streaming with commentary for atleast 20-30k people. We took nothing. Teamliquid and Idra's stream are in no way connected.
Is he still featured, though?
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little kid idra just wants attention.
+ Show Spoiler +
anyways, bullies suck! go TL!
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EPT
