EPTIdra Banned for 90 Days - Page 49
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Hello, all! It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully. Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil. Thanks, Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. | ||
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shell
Portugal2722 Posts
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damod
1106 Posts
or just very honest | ||
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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
90 days? That's just ridiculous. Not a fan of the whole drama scenario and not a fan of how it was handled. With that said, I won't go to great lengths to show my discontent because I don't want to share in his punishment. | ||
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Gimmickkz
154 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:23 mahnini wrote: what people are forgetting is that TL has high standards for the conduct of their users. due to the explosion of new users and lack of sufficient manpower to moderate a lot of people think TL is just some forum where you can post whatever you feel like with no repercussions. that couldn't be anywhere further from the truth. this is going to sound super elitist but i don't care because it's the truth. TL is one of the foundations for why sc2 is the way it is today. TL is one of the reasons western esports even stands a chance. for 10 years through thick and thin our little community kept cranking out coverage of a video game from across the world that many have heard of but few truly understood. all the mods and staff you see aren't here doing it for the money or power, they do it because they love the game and the community. hot_bid, chill, kennigit? they all started as regular users who browsed the forum and loved the game. through contributions to the site and dedication they were selected to be among the proud few who could call themselves TL staff. think about how easy it is today for you to get a stream to watch sc2 and remember that back in 2005 TL members would stay up till 2am on irc hoping that one of our members MAYBE could get their hands on a korean stream. remember that when WCG had no idea what TL was or how to get a proper caster TL's support and encouragement helped propel tasteless to caster fame. TLPD? possibly the most comprehensive starcraft database in existence? made from the ground up by TL staff and volunteers. our strategy forums are probably the most informative english resources in the world, they have to be moderated and still we don't consider them to be perfect. articles, fpvods, commentaries? our users put their heart and soul into churning these out because they knew somewhere out there in our community there was someone who would appreciate it. people need to stop considering TL a separate entity or some conglomerate of egotistic admins. TL is YOU. every single poster, viewer, or reader is part of TL. everything on this site is user generated by people who care and it's a damn shame when one of only sites that will literally take a stand for the community and uphold it's integrity is seen as some overzealous, overmoderated, egotistic, site for elitists. if that's elitist then i'm an elitist and that's just how it is. Max props | ||
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Stiluz
Norway688 Posts
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Zerokaiser
Canada885 Posts
On May 08 2011 06:37 TL.net Bot wrote: IdrA was just temp banned for 90 days by Liquid`Nazgul. That account was created on 2004-07-31 20:59:50 and had 11027 posts. Reason: A few days ago, one of our moderators (Chill) banned Idra for 2 days. After the ban, Idra encouraged his fans, through twitter, to harass and spam him on TL. We spoke with Idra and he stated that he does not regret his actions and will not change his behavior on our forums. Thus, we've decided to ban him for 90 days. Regardless of whether he felt the 2-day ban was justified or not, we cannot tolerate a forum user publicly encouraging harassment of our moderators. "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you" Hardly the "encouraging his fans to harass and spam him." That's a pretty exaggerated description of what IdrA did. He told people to PM Chill if they had a problem with the ban. Done. The ban in the first place was petty. "We cannot tolerate a forum user publicly encouraging harassment of our moderators." I like Chill, but how about you be a little less tolerant of moderators with thin skin and twitchy fingers. The mods have been developing a lot of attitude and setting bad examples themselves lately. Obviously Team Liquid is still technically the private forum of, well, Team Liquid, but any 'fairness' that was maintained is being replaced by a much more apparent "We are in charge, we'll do whatever appeals to us." recently. EDIT: The post above me illustrates a lot of my point. Yeah, the people who have been here for years and years and have earned respect can probably deserve some leeway, but setting examples by being unduly harsh on some people and then making a shit post like Intrigue's is just absurd and completely defeats the point of setting a good example. The example it sets is that "We are better than you, you are worthless to this website." EDIT 2: Out of curiosity, I went back and looked at Intrigue's profile and his last 10 or so posts. They're all awful. Anybody on this website that didn't have favour with the staff would be permanently banned if that's what a mod saw as his post history. Before you guys start teaching lessons with bans, teach them by being decent posters yourself. | ||
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Looky
United States1608 Posts
i can understand that he'll not apologize to chill, even if he gets ban. | ||
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huameng
United States1133 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:18 MonkSEA wrote:Now with that being said, if we're playing on assumptions that IdrA did intend to mean that as harassment, then shouldn't we also assume CrunCher did stream cheat? Shouldn't he get a ban too? People have been posting this sort of argument a lot, and I have no idea how it makes sense. If we assumed Idra intended to harass Chill, does that mean we should assume God exists? Should we assume the world's going to end in 2012? Why is it inconsistent to assume Idra meant to harass and Cruncher wasn't cheating? | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
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MapHackTT1N1Fan
Azerbaijan2 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:25 intrigue wrote: if u guys like idra so much why dont u marry him lol We dont, because we enjoy High level posts like yours | ||
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dacthehork
United States2000 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:23 mahnini wrote: . Yes but you also can't deny Idra did help SC2 grow a lot. 20,000 viewers for SOTG, highest viewers on his stream etc. Sticking with it in the CJ house, heck he practically made TSL2 so entertaining and memorable (the finals and other games where great but nothing matched nony vs idra). I think he is pretty much a "FBH" of western Sc2. I don't know if he ever posted much tbh, it just seems over zealous to try to ban idra and say its about cleaning up TL | ||
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:17 chameleonism wrote: It is still funny that people assume they know Idra's intent for his twitter post. There is nothing wrong with telling people to msg a moderator if they are upset with the decision. It is actually the most logical thing to do. He did not say, SPAM CHILL ALL DAY. What people did were results of their own actions. So, is TL saying you are not supposed to express your opinion about something that goes on inside the site? If we disagree, are we not supposed to post about it or msg a mod? =/ Also, I fully understand TL can do whatever they want, but the site is supposed to be an unbiased place for people to express opinions (from what I've read from mods in the past). I wouldn't have said my above statement if this was not how the site had been presented to me in the past. Even if Idra didn't explicitly call for people to harass Idra he is still responsible. All Idra had to do was tell Chill and TL that result of his twitter post was not one he intended for and apologize. Did Idra do that? No, he did not. Idra has been banned more times then every other TL member. Teamliquid has put up with his mod harassment before and the only reason he has not been permanently banned is because of his status in the community. The ban is completely justified and Idra needs to grow up before he posts here again. If there is a next time I hope it permanent because if he doesn't learn from this he never will. | ||
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Trict
Canada182 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:22 zeru wrote: I'm slowly starting to see a pattern, for some reason it seems that the less posts you have and the less time you have been here the more likely you are to dislike the ban. And the more posts you have and the more time you have been here the more likely you are to approve of the ban, or even think it wasnt enough. Yes this is a generalization. Not entirely true. Though I'm new to the SC scene I have been heavily involved in esports from WC3 and DotA. Relatively new and thinks this is 100% justified, I actually think his stream should be ulled for a month to really get the point across. | ||
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Reaper9
United States1724 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:26 teamsolid wrote: Even though Idra probably deserves the ban, IMO 90 days is way too long. We all know that Idra is never going to change anytime soon, no matter who asks him or tells him. Basically, banning him for that long hurts the SC2 community more than any one else really, since his stream attracts so many viewers on a regular basis. It's really a lose-lose situation. His stream is still up. Yea. His fans can still watch, it's the main reason it's still there. | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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tofucake
Hyrule19213 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:24 .Carnage wrote: Poor Chill, now he has a thousand+ more PMs for him not to read. Chill read and replied to every PM he got as a result of IdrA's tweet. | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:27 dacthehork wrote: Yes but you also can't deny Idra did help SC2 grow a lot. 20,000 viewers for SOTG, highest viewers on his stream etc. Sticking with it in the CJ house, heck he practically made TSL2 so entertaining and memorable (the finals and other games where great but nothing matched nony vs idra). I think he is pretty much a "FBH" of western Sc2. I don't know if he ever posted much tbh, it just seems over zealous to try to ban idra and say its about cleaning up TL The fact that Idra didn't get tempbanned is evident of preferrential treatment for him due to his contributions to the community. | ||
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Wiseman
United States41 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:13 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As a member of the "old guard". I find your post utterly offensive. As someone who has been on TL for 7 years I have seen it change over the years. The leniency people get in posting now is far far higher than it used to be. TL is much more lenient and has become a far more open community overall since the launch of SC2. Do not talk about things you don't understand. We have a list of rules that everyone should have read upon joining TL. What Idra did is against those rules. People may view his ban as harsh, but his status as a progamer and the contributions that have been given to the community because of this is the only reason he hasn't been perma banned. He has a long standing reputation of being bad mannered, trollish, disrespectful, etc... to both his opponents in games, the moderation staff on TL. For him to then continue the behaviour that has gotten him punished in the past then only encourage the harassment of a mod (who has contributed more to this website than almost every user, and a fair amount of progamers) I would tell you all to sit down and think before you post. Ban was justified, and anyone saying it was unjustified is ignorant and should open their eyes. Idra is no saint, hes a complete asshat and has only gotten off as lightly as he has because of his skill at sc2. Everyone should be grateful his stream wasn't pulled from TL. Hello sir and thanks for responding, I am someone who agreed with the post that you quoted, that was utterly offensive, even though the individual did not mean for it to be that way. You say that he should "no talk about things you don't understand". I don't believe that he was, I think that as a newer member to TL (as I am) it does not mean that I was unaware of the website existence, or that I did not read its forums, but I am one of many users who decided to post here with the advent of SC2 and the events leading to this ban of Idra, along with events that occurred between Tyler and Incontrol on last weeks SotG, have put a spotlight on TL. I have read many times here, and elsewhere about how Idra has acted in the past on TL and that he has been given special treatment due to his status as a player. This actually makes the case that this incident was handled in a truly fair and impartial matter actually worse. TL has a long standing history with idra as a trouble maker and this will naturally be inclined to treat him as the bad party. Note that I am not saying idra is the correct party! IMHO, both Cruncher and Idra should of gotten a 2 day ban or no bans at all. Idra's actions after receiving the ban SHOULD and DID lead to a 90 day ban. Furthermore, there are less action taken against posts that are more inflammatory than Idra's was. There have been incidents of this already posted on the thread, and as a 7 year member of TL I'm sure that you have seen them yourself. I also understand that moderators can't get to every thread and that it is easier to spot Idra breaking the rules because he has the spotlight on him. BUT The point that the post that you quoted was making (I believe) that Team Liquid has set itself up to be the de facto competitive community website in SC2. This has, of course, brought in new blood and new opinions to TL. As SC2 continues to grow (as it will) more new opinion and new blood will come into the sport and if TL would like to continue to be the de facto community site, it has to accommodate them in some way. The past weeks events between Incontrol-Tyler and Idra-Cruncher-Chill-TL-God-Allah-Yahweh-etc etc etc have showed where there are points of conflict between different proponents of the SC2 community, and I believe the poster was trying to say that Team Liquid, EG, in fact, ALL proponents of eSports will have to be questioning how they want to communicate and cooperate with each other in the future to avoid damaging conflicts. AND To address your last point sir, you should see that both the post you quoted, and myself agree that the ban's were deserved. We may be newer to TL than you, but that does not mean we don't have the same good intentions. I thought that this thread was supposed to discuss the ban, and if we get past the insults and the specifics of Idra's ban, the larger issue at play here is the conduct of professionals and organizations in their dealings with one another. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On May 08 2011 10:25 intrigue wrote: if u guys like idra so much why dont u marry him lol LOL Why doesn't.... your mom.... marry your FACE! Wait.... | ||
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