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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 08 2011 08:01 aderum wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:42 Thojorin wrote:
Just want to thow in that from the reasoning of the 90-day ban i am a little bit surprised about the consequences, and would have expected a full ban. Either his behavior can be accepted, which then would not result in any ban, or not. Since the original post implies that he will stand by his behavior, i do not see what would make that behavior acceptable after 90 days have passed. So with that logic either you get prison for life, or get to walk free?
No. By this logic i either let someone into my house because i accept him as a guest, or i don't. He is still free to walk whereever else he is allowed to. But if it is not acceptable to me as the host, i don't want to invite him back, when he makes it clear that he does not want to follow the rules in my house.
--Edit:
On the other hand, if this person might be of significant relevance to me (and i assume this is the case here as well), it would perhaps be beneficial to not remove the possibility of his/her return. Maybe my rules change, maybe this person's behavior. Still this would then be a "until I/you change our minds ban :-)"
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If IdrA didn't mean for people to be harassing Chill via PM after his twitter, he could have apologized that and clarified that when Nazgul approached him.
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Oh the drama!
Idra knows very well that he holds sway over a ton of fanboys. That is why he should have shown some responsibility by retracting his call for PMs or he should have at least apologized for it. His words per se might seem innocent, but the effects, i.e. the landslide of PMs harassing Chill, were very well known to him.
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On May 08 2011 07:56 Monolithic- wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:54 DizzyDrone wrote:On May 08 2011 07:50 Monolithic- wrote:
I really hope you are never given jury duty or a murderer or rapist might very well walk.
I really hope you are never given jury duty or an innocent person might very well end up on death row. Perhaps, but it's not very often that the person is innocent when the evidence overwhelmingly points towards a guilty verdict.
But it doesn't point towards an overwhelmingly guilty verdict, that's where you're wrong.
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On May 08 2011 08:00 CheAse wrote:
I'm losing more and more respect for Idra.
Eventually the only fans hes going to have left are the degenerate trolls. What a waste
I wouldn't bet on that. He's pretty much a beast, and will retain fans on that fact alone. Being great in a competitive is actually important. Some people actually watch SC2 to see great games/play. (surprising, hey?)
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I totally agree with the 90 days ban although Idra's comments are always amusing and most of the time they are the truth but you would never say it like Idra does (because it's inappropriate/violating laws/...). For people who dont know what I am talking about => Idra Quotes
Or when he called  July a fag for 1hat lurker rushing him..
Seriously, who can you call this guy a fag?
+ Show Spoiler +
Well, after all this years of insult and rage I doubt that he will ever change his behavior towards other people. And that's okay if he can live with the consequences.
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8748 Posts
It's standard procedure to leave the stream open when sniping its player. When the game is over, simply remove mute and listen to the commentary. If the stream is closed, the initial advertisement is very likely to destroy the chance to hear the full commentary.
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Well I dont know :D
Actually it's right since the rules should apply for everyone.
On the other hand, Idra's behaviour is kind of entertaining. He is totally known for such comments, anything else would be disappointing :D How can you still be pissed, why would anyone be still insulted by his comments, how can you take that serious? He has around 11000 posts which are basically the same ^^'
Guess decisions by TL staff should be absolute, but 90 days seems a bit much =)
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On May 08 2011 08:07 viii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 06:59 Artimo wrote:
I wonder if EG sponsors have an opinion about Idra's behavior. sure a little BM is fine. but what Idra does reflects on the sponsors as well. I cant imagine them being very happy with this continued behavior. idra was bad mannered in BW, EG has their own reasons to recruit idra.
cuz incontroll is such an angel  nice people those EG's
anyhows, it all comes down to what nazgul said in his warning to idra few months back: dont troll the site that indirectly brings you money (i think we can all agree that if esports will grow tl.net will have huge part in it, as it does now)
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On May 08 2011 08:06 enexiss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 08:04 TheRhox wrote:On May 08 2011 08:02 enexiss wrote:
I don't really see the problem. Cruncher cheated, Idra was (understandably) upset about it.
Chill temp banned and Idra told people to PM him if they have questions or a problem with it.
Did Chill just not like that people think he made a bad call? I'm new to the community, but I don't think having your community be pro-cheater is good for a pro-gaming team.
Do you? except there's no evidence to support that cruncher cheated. Except that he was watching the stream? What, we're supposed to take his word that he's "Not cheating, honest!" even though he's in the stream and blind counters? Even aside from that, I don't see why having Idra direct people with concerns to the moderator who made the call is wrong.
I didn't know zealots were the counter to roaches. Thanks for the info. IdrA could have easily negotiated the terms of his ban with the mods personally, but instead chooses to do it publically. IdrA, as a progamer with quite a following, should know better than to resort to childish behaviour. He does have a responsibility, as endless BM will eventually cost him. Not only TL, but possibly sponsors or tourneys aswell. I like his play, but his attitude is horrible.
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I hope you're happy with yourself Chill/Nazgul. Off to well played.
User was banned for this post.
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Honestly I don't go on TL that much but a friend of mine does, and he quotes the public "ban messages" quite often, thinking that they're hilarious. I think that the mods have a bloated opinion of themselves from all the little fanboys going "Oh my god he banned this guy and even made a hilarious comment while doing so, what a cool mod", and this is what occurs when someone with a bloated ego gets insulted. Keep the site moderation in the background and maybe you won't have all this unneeded publicity over a silly situation. Really any other site would have everything related to bans and such be done in PMs. TL is not guaranteed a place in Starcraft's future, and a lot of you seem to be taking its close involvement for granted. All TL has going for it is its huge userbase.
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I actually think posting about this and inviting discussion speaks lengths to the type of place TL is. Agree with the decision or not, you don't see a lot of places where the decisions are so transparent anymore, and you have the people themselves involved are responding. So kudos to TL, that being said, idra does deserve his ban for encouraging people to harass a Mod, but I really don't think the initial 2 day ban was warranted (yes, I get it, he calls people mean names a lot and has a history of it), but to be fair cruncher trolls Idra in a WAY more annoying way, also crunchers response to the stream incident was equally immature. I don't think bans were deserved on either end but I guess how I can see how the mods were quick to ban idra given his history. Its sad though. I'd prefer someone to call someone a waste of life and be done with it than constantly be an annoying, self righteous troll.
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On May 08 2011 08:12 Foogs wrote:
I hope you're happy with yourself Chill/Nazgul. Off to well played.
goodbye, you will not be missed.
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On May 08 2011 07:51 Klogon wrote:First of all, if Cruncher is proven to have cheated, we will take action. We have no problem taking action against even the most high profile of players (ex. Dimaga and TSL2/3) but try to do so with careful deliberation. Please do not think our actions here are simply us spitefully swinging a banhammer. You'd be surprised by the pages of discussions we have of actions that involve high-profile community members, Idra included. Also, regarding the "harassing". Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:05 Karthane wrote:
I don't necessarily think he was encouraging people to "harrass" them. He just said if you have a problem with it message Chill. Whatever though, in the end i think it's better to have IdrA here, streaming on TL. Brings more people here. Hell, he even got 20k to watch Sotg. Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:20 Mysticvoid wrote:
I feel the 2 day ban was justified. Calling someone a waste a life is pretty low and should be punished. All fine and dandy, what I am not ok with is punishing someone for something they said outside of the forums. Idra didn't tell anyone to harass Chill, Idra said and I quote "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you." Yes he did tell his fans to PM Chill, did he tell them to insult him or harass him? No he didnt and I'm sorry but if mods can't handle getting PMs from people maybe they should reconsider being mods.
Idra on his twitter tried to imply that by being banned, he could no longer stream. That was false. And if we assume he knew it was also false (he probably did), we can then assume that he was maliciously misleading his thousands of twitter followers into a rage against Chill. Thus I think it is fair to say Idra did encourage his fans to go harass Chill.
Why are you requiring "proof" to take action against Cruncher while simultaneously allowing your assumption to be the basis of Idra's 90 day ban?
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Sigh, it's time for IdrA to grow up.
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On May 08 2011 08:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
It's standard procedure to leave the stream open when sniping its player. When the game is over, simply remove mute and listen to the commentary. If the stream is closed, the initial advertisement is very likely to destroy the chance to hear the full commentary.
^This. Tyler is always the voice of reason.
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On May 08 2011 07:59 Klogon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2011 07:54 smileyface22 wrote:
For a website whose stated goal is to foster the growth of e-sports, this decision is strange. Banning idra for 90 days only hurts the community infinitely more than it hurts Idra. He has an immense power to draw traffic and viewers and for all the complaints people parrot about his behavior, he's done more to expand the sc2 scene than any other player. I have friends who stopped playing in beta that still tune in to NASL just to see his games. While his 2-day ban could be justified, this just seems like retribution. And considering the history between the two, a lot of people simply think Chill was looking for an excuse to provoke Idra.
Whatever higher standard of forum behavior TL professes to adhere to is off-set by this bizarre aversion toward freedom of speech here. If you disagree with mods, you get banned. Just an extremely odd way to alienate a large portion of your viewers. Oh well, i guess it's a model you can support while there still isn't any competition.... If you think about it, is it "good for ESPORTS" for Idra to consistently act immature and set a bad example in the biggest community site just for pride and laughs? Tear down and entire community just so one man can stand above the ashes? No. And if he cared, he would not want it either. In situations like this, all sides do share responsibility for the outcomes, but I think it is fair to say that Idra controls the vast majority of that responsibility for what happens to him.
Who is really setting the bad example here?
I'm sorry but Idra's post where he calls Cruncher a waste of life isn't some rant encouraging someone to grab a 9mm and his address and pay him a visit. It was the acknowledgement of one who feels superior that he was beaten by a cheater, and that he was a waste of life. Now, being an adult, I read this as not being worth my time. Would it have been better if instead of waste of life he'd said not worth my time? Would that have deserved a two day ban?
How does Chill banning a professional player, for taking it to what is probably the most OPEN competitive website on the thread about his own stream (which to me would indicate it should be talking about the events of his stream, of which this clearly was one) set a good example if anyone has a dispute with any other player? I'm sorry but real, professional sports have competitors that do not like each other, don't care for each other, and only want to beat each other, no matter what it takes. Larry Bird and Michael Jordan weren't good friends. Larry Bird punted a basketball of MJ's when it rolled over near him during a practice shoot around.
This entire issue was blown out of hand by the initial 2-day ban, which was undeserved. Calling someone a waste of life, on the INTERNET, is such a piddling insult not even a 14 year old would be insulted by it. Furthermore, I did not know of any bad history between Chill and Idra, but that seems to make even more sense because again, a 2 day ban for calling someone a waste of life after they intentionally trolled you was a little over the top. Hell, give them a thread where only those two immature pricks (Idra and Cruncher) can sit and verbally snipe at each other all day and just reap in the popularity.
This current 90 day ban is deserved. Harassment of any official is out of hand, but the initial events that set this all in motion are what should be a concern to all. If we want to bring this thing called eSports into the REAL ADULT WORLD, we are going to have to deal with manners in a REAL and ADULT manner.
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United States11390 Posts
On May 08 2011 08:11 Joefish wrote:I totally agree with the 90 days ban although Idra's comments are always amusing and most of the time they are the truth but you would never say it like Idra does (because it's inappropriate/violating laws/...). For people who dont know what I am talking about => Idra QuotesOr when he called July a fag for 1hat lurker rushing him.. Seriously, who can you call this guy a fag? + Show Spoiler +Well, after all this years of insult and rage I doubt that he will ever change his behavior towards other people. And that's okay if he can live with the consequences.
It was a random ladder game on ICCUP. He had no idea that it was July.
Ret did the same thing vs Reach on ICCUP (obv didn't know who it was at the time) and told him to "stop the lag, fag"
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