EPTEdit: the point is calling it a "silly gay crusade" is belittling when it's shit like this that gets gays harmed/killed all round the world, and is a contributory factor to the unusually high rate of teen gay suicides. How is that silly?
Gay StarCraft Players - Page 297
| Forum Index > TL Community |
Don't post in this thread to say "gay gamers are like everyone else, why do they have a special thread?" It is something that has been posted numerous times, and this isn't the place for that discussion. For regular posters, don't quote the trolls. | ||
|
marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Edit: the point is calling it a "silly gay crusade" is belittling when it's shit like this that gets gays harmed/killed all round the world, and is a contributory factor to the unusually high rate of teen gay suicides. How is that silly? | ||
|
jck
2 Posts
 Re: Totalbiscuit, I think it's sort of telling that a white straight guy can't understand why nigger or faggot are offensive words. | ||
|
Bortlett
United States302 Posts
This is how things work when you are a public figure in most industries, but that comes with the territory. Quite honestly it's embarrassing that parts of the community try to defend it. | ||
|
SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On June 27 2012 22:15 Axero wrote: SCST: Irregardless isnt a proper word. Also: People dont need to be given a history lesson just because they dont share the same sentiments as you of the words fag, faggot, queer or homo. There doesnt need to be some silly gay crusade everytime someone uses one of those words. In a previous post I expressed that I do feel sad to have to stand up to people in our own community . . . I don't like being at odds with anyone here about this stuff. And yes, I think a history lesson was appropriate for those trying to justify hate-speech. If you actually read my and others posts regarding this issue, I doubt you'd be able to argue against any of it. It's not my fault, or the fault of anyone on here that you're bothered by people speaking out. If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend everything is jolly when people start calling you a faggot, you go do that. Meanwhile, I'll speak my mind and protect myself by doing my best to prevent the spread of hate-speech in this community. I don't know you, but based on your sentiment I'd guess you're from the generation of privilaged gay kids who haven't ever feared for your life, or had to fight for your right to be "out" etc. I'm also from that generation so I understand how apethetic we can be. But can you imagine how incredibly disrespectful it is to be LGBT and have anti-gay sentiments like your "silly gay crusade" bullshit? I'm not even part of any gay progressive organization, but at least I care enough about my own safety and my communities safety to speak out about this kind of shit. And at least I respect people who made sacrifices to get us where we are today. P.S. Also, much of the history I spouted was just correcting another posters incorrect version of history - so no I'm not just reciting history lessons for shits and giggles here. | ||
|
Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On June 28 2012 00:46 Bortlett wrote: In a related story, Amare Stoudamire today was fined $50k by the NBA for tweeting "a gay slur". He immediately apologized. This is how things work when you are a public figure in most industries, but that comes with the territory. Quite honestly it's embarrassing that parts of the community try to defend it. To be honest that doesn't seem right...I could see NBA fining them because they did it during the game, after all they're being paid to entertain for the NBA. But if they did it on their free time why should someone be fined for saying something? | ||
|
Troxle
United States486 Posts
On June 28 2012 03:42 Roe wrote: To be honest that doesn't seem right...I could see NBA fining them because they did it during the game, after all they're being paid to entertain for the NBA. But if they did it on their free time why should someone be fined for saying something? When you are in the NBA your free time is NBA time too. Once you become a public figure you really don't get "free time" in the way we think about it. Its salary pay so you are always on the clock even if you aren't always practicin' or playin' a game. | ||
|
Bortlett
United States302 Posts
On June 28 2012 03:44 Troxle wrote: When you are in the NBA your free time is NBA time too. Once you become a public figure you really don't get "free time" in the way we think about it. Its salary pay so you are always on the clock even if you aren't always practicin' or playin' a game. This is true for every job as well, not just the NBA. I am friends with coworkers on facebook, and if I started using the same kind of language, it could very well get me fired. You are a representative of your employer 24 hours a day, not just when you are on the clock. | ||
|
Silverfoxx
United States184 Posts
On June 28 2012 03:14 SCST wrote: In a previous post I expressed that I do feel sad to have to stand up to people in our own community . . . I don't like being at odds with anyone here about this stuff. And yes, I think a history lesson was appropriate for those trying to justify hate-speech. If you actually read my and others posts regarding this issue, I doubt you'd be able to argue against any of it. It's not my fault, or the fault of anyone on here that you're bothered by people speaking out. If you want to bury your head in the sand and pretend everything is jolly when people start calling you a faggot, you go do that. Meanwhile, I'll speak my mind and protect myself by doing my best to prevent the spread of hate-speech in this community. I don't know you, but based on your sentiment I'd guess you're from the generation of privilaged gay kids who haven't ever feared for your life, or had to fight for your right to be "out" etc. I'm also from that generation so I understand how apethetic we can be. But can you imagine how incredibly disrespectful it is to be LGBT and have anti-gay sentiments like your "silly gay crusade" bullshit? I'm not even part of any gay progressive organization, but at least I care enough about my own safety and my communities safety to speak out about this kind of shit. And at least I respect people who made sacrifices to get us where we are today. P.S. Also, much of the history I spouted was just correcting another posters incorrect version of history - so no I'm not just reciting history lessons for shits and giggles here. SCST, with all due respect, I suggest learning ALL your history of times before spouting off statements saying somebody is wrong. It is not worth talking with someone who immediately assumes they know everything. | ||
|
SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On June 28 2012 04:18 Silverfoxx wrote: SCST, with all due respect, I suggest learning ALL your history of times before spouting off statements saying somebody is wrong. It is not worth talking with someone who immediately assumes they know everything. When have I assumed I know everything? Was there anything I said that you can't find in a textbook? I'm a history major/buff, but I'm not a liar. If anything I said was not factual, please tell me and I'd be happy to correct it. | ||
|
Mora
Canada5235 Posts
TotalBiscuit could have used a better word - sure, but who cares. What he said was taken completely out of context. * Some douchebag was being a douchebag, and he wanted to offend him * He knew the word 'faggot' would offend him * He said it Let's all waste hours of our lives discussing how the unintended consequences of his using the word are going to result in the stoning of gays everywhere! Please. Yes, we should encourage people to use other, more accurate, words to portray their thoughts, but people are going to slip now and again, and that's ok. How much do you recycle? Cause I mean, I recycle everything. But, occasionally, I'll throw an empty cardboard toilet paper roll in the garbage instead of the recycling bin. Now, if every single person in the world did the same thing, that would be 7 billion toilet paper rolls that could have been recycled. But you know what? Context. I'm good most of the time, so let's not stress out, forgive me, and move on. Or we could ask him to contribute to a LGBT charity event. Are you fucking kidding me? You're just not that important. No minority is that important. Especially with the proper context!: * he admitted that he shouldn't have used the word * he supports the chosen-gender of trans players like Scarlett * he doesn't have anything about gay people * he never uses that language in official casts Let's stop behaving like feminists. We're not a bunch of crazy broom-shoved threatened females, so let's stop aspiring to be? See what I did there? Grow up. | ||
|
Mora
Canada5235 Posts
Want to make us look good? Become a pro sc2 player. One of us should get to the top, pronounce to the world that we're gay, and just as good as anyone else when we put our mind and soul into something, and succeed despite the numerous pitfalls behind our minority-ism. The way one really changes the world is showing how strong he/they/she are. Not whining about being victims. In the meantime, use some common sense and forgive people when their heart is [generally] in the right place. TotalBiscuit is harmless, let's not persecute him? | ||
|
SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On June 28 2012 04:29 Mora wrote: What a bunch of horseshit. TotalBiscuit could have used a better word - sure, but who cares. What he said was taken completely out of context. * Some douchebag was being a douchebag, and he wanted to offend him * He knew the word 'faggot' would offend him * He said it Let's all waste hours of our lives discussing how the unintended consequences of his using the word are going to result in the stoning of gays everywhere! Please. Yes, we should encourage people to use other, more accurate, words to portray their thoughts, but people are going to slip now and again, and that's ok. How much do you recycle? Cause I mean, I recycle everything. But, occasionally, I'll throw an empty cardboard toilet paper roll in the garbage instead of the recycling bin. Now, if every single person in the world did the same thing, that would be 7 billion toilet paper rolls that could have been recycled. But you know what? Context. I'm good most of the time, so let's not stress out, forgive me, and move on. Or we could ask him to contribute to a LGBT charity event. Are you fucking kidding me? You're just not that important. No minority is that important. Especially with the proper context!: * he admitted that he shouldn't have used the word * he supports the chosen-gender of trans players like Scarlett * he doesn't have anything about gay people * he never uses that language in official casts Let's stop behaving like feminists. We're not a bunch of crazy broom-shoved threatened females, so let's stop aspiring to be? See what I did there? Grow up. Yeah not asking for any kind of charity myself etc, but definitely saying that TB should be condemned and criticized for using hate-speech. And yes I think TB's heart is in the right place and he should not be persecuted. There's a difference between condemning and persecution, no? And I don't think anyone in the thread has stated that TB meant what he said in an anti-gay way or context. That doesn't justify anything. Again the only way to stamp out people using words designed sepcifically to inflict damage to gays and minorities is to speak out against them period. The only reason I've gotten preachy on here lately is because of all of the gaymers on here justifying bad behavior and trying to shut up people who spoke out. And Mora, it's a very asshole thing for you to put down feminists and tell people to grow up for discussing gay-related issues in the gay-related thread that you created. Perhaps you only want people to post rainbows and sunshine in here? Why did you create this thread if not to discuss things related to LGBT? | ||
|
Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On June 28 2012 04:43 SCST wrote: Yeah not asking for any kind of charity myself etc, but definitely saying that TB should be condemned and criticized for using hate-speech. And yes I think TB's heart is in the right place and he should not be persecuted. There's a difference between condemning and persecution, no? And I don't think anyone in the thread has stated that TB meant what he said in an anti-gay way or context. That doesn't justify anything. Again the only way to stamp out people using words designed sepcifically to inflict damage to gays and minorities is to speak out against them period. The only reason I've gotten preachy on here lately is because of all of the gaymers on here justifying bad behavior and trying to shut up people who spoke out. And Mora, it's a very asshole thing for you to put down feminists and tell people to grow up for discussing gay-related issues in the gay-related thread that you created. Perhaps you only want people to post rainbows and sunshine in here? Why did you create this thread if not to discuss things related to LGBT? I honestly can't figure out if you are the most adept troll, or if you are serious. If you are the former, you have my admiration. If you are the latter, I'll need some time to respond. | ||
|
SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On June 28 2012 04:50 Mora wrote: I honestly can't figure out if you are the most adept troll, or if you are serious. If you are the former, you have my admiration. If you are the latter, I'll need some time to respond. I doubt that trying to assassinate my character is going to to help you at all. And your completely wrong, I'm sorry to say. (Edit: being loud) and complaining and acting like "feminists" is exactly what gets things done. I was able to get married in Mexico because of super-liberal activists down here who wouldn't shut the fuck up about it. I couldn't get married in my own fucking country (U.S.) because of brain-washed idiots in my own community who listened to all the old anti-gay fucks who told them: "don't whine about having rights, don't complain just be quiet and satisfied with being second-class ok?". And here you are saying the same fucking thing? Really Mora? I'm ashamed of you. | ||
|
Conti
Germany2516 Posts
On June 28 2012 04:37 Mora wrote: In the meantime, use some common sense and forgive people when their heart is [generally] in the right place. TotalBiscuit is harmless, let's not persecute him? I'm just quoting this because it's worth repeating. Over and over and over again. | ||
|
Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On June 28 2012 04:55 SCST wrote: I doubt that trying to assassinate my character is going to to help you at all. And your completely wrong, I'm sorry to say. Whining and bitching and complaining and acting like "feminists" is exactly what gets things done. I was able to get married in Mexico because of super-liberal activists down here who wouldn't shut the fuck up about it. I couldn't get married in my own fucking country (U.S.) because of brain-washed idiots in my own community who listened to all the old anti-gay fucks who told them: "don't whine about having rights, don't complain just be quiet and satisfied with being second-class ok?". And here you are saying the same fucking thing? Really Mora? I'm ashamed of you. Whining and bitching isn't the right thing to do, and those two aren't the same as fighting strong for rights and never giving up on justice. In fact I think the former two deter from the later happening, and I don't think your example with Mexico is comparable to what's happening with TB among others. | ||
|
SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
On June 28 2012 05:07 Roe wrote: Whining and bitching isn't the right thing to do, and those two aren't the same as fighting strong for rights and never giving up on justice. In fact I think the former two deter from the later happening, and I don't think your example with Mexico is comparable to what's happening with TB among others. I was being somewhat sarcastic regarding "whining and bitching" - obviously being a whining 12 year old is not going to do anything. The idea behind that statement is that being loud and outspoken is what gets things done. I edited the post to say "loud" instead because that's a good point. And I'm not comparing mexico marriage to TB at all . . .at this point, it's not about TB. He's not evil and doesn't deserve persecution. The only reason this argument is continuing is because some people in the thread are telling others that they shouldn't speak their minds and calling them "feminists/activists" with a negative connotation because we said something like "TB was wrong and should recieve strong critcism". It's that simple imo. | ||
|
Mora
Canada5235 Posts
On June 28 2012 04:55 SCST wrote: I doubt that trying to assassinate my character is going to to help you at all. And your completely wrong, I'm sorry to say. Whining and bitching and complaining and acting like "feminists" is exactly what gets things done. I was able to get married in Mexico because of super-liberal activists down here who wouldn't shut the fuck up about it. I couldn't get married in my own fucking country (U.S.) because of brain-washed idiots in my own community who listened to all the old anti-gay fucks who told them: "don't whine about having rights, don't complain just be quiet and satisfied with being second-class ok?". And here you are saying the same fucking thing? Really Mora? I'm ashamed of you. Whoa whoa whoa. Hold up. When did I try to assassinate your character? At the end of my post, I was deliberately using irony to illustrate my point (ie: throwing feminists under the bus); which I even punctuated with "see what I did there" to ensure that the irony was not missed. At this point you responded, addressing my irony out of context - which was the entire point of my post. Yes, I wondered if you were trolling me. I have to mention that I strongly disagree with the methods that 'get things done'. Both the efficacy and morality. But that's not the topic I wish to address right now, so we can circle back if the conversation leads that way. What gets me is how you equate the opinions stated in my posts as condoning the mistreatment of homosexuals and being satisfied with being treated as second-class. Now, I'm going to drop all the irony and refrain from any condescension and insults, as you are taking what I'm saying very seriously and simultaneously not understanding what I'm saying. All actions are not equal. Being gay-bashed and being called a faggot are not the same thing. Excluding someone from participation because of their homosexuality, and using 'gay' derogatorily is not the same thing. My position is: that as human beings who are all fallible, we need to use discretion about which grievances we can forgive, and which we are intolerant of. What this means is is that there is not a black and white rule for behaviour. What is OK for one person is not always OK for another. And when working outside of the law, I believe that to be both good and healthy. That we, individually, need to consider the broader context of each situation, and use reasonable judgement about how we react to that situation. In this instance, where the gay-bandwagon has jumped on TotalBiscuits back, I feel that our [collective] judgement is in the wrong. As I explained in my original post [about TB], that if we consider both who TB is as a person, and the situation where he unintentionally used offensive language towards homosexuals (ie: he was trying to offend someone who was not homosexual), that we should not persecute him. dictionary.com: Persecute: 2. To annoy or trouble persistently A reasonable response to what TB said, in my opinion, would have been the following: * Alerting him in a private message that the language he used was offensive to our minority, and leaving it there * Alerting him in a tweet of the same * Ignoring what he said, as he's obviously not anti-gay * Condoning his calling-out of a thief who attempted and succeeded in taking money from people All of these are reasonable, respectable, responses. Even though they are differing perspectives on his actions, they are all reasonable. What is not reasonable: * Thinking he's a bad person * Thinking that he condones treating homosexuals as second-class * Asking him to host or serve at a LGBT event to make-up for his sins * Jumping on a bandwagon condoning such persecution Similarly, I've been thrown under the bus because I do not have zero-tolerance for intolerance. You've equated me to same mis-equations you've made of TB. They are unreasonable and unfounded. We are in a culture that is slowly adapting and changing. It is becoming more and more tolerant of minorities and differences and people being who they are. These things do not happen over night, so let's all have a little patience. That you are so quick to throw a stone, when you are probably imperfect yourself. You probably offend people without intending to do so, and that the world is a better place if they don't persecute you for doing so. With a little patience and reasonable tolerance for intolerance, we'll all live much amiable lives. To see the progress of teamliquid and this community from 12 years ago when I joined it is absolutely astounding. I cannot help but feel that If you knew its history and could see such inspiring progress, that the patience I speak of would be inherent. | ||
|
SCST
Mexico1609 Posts
 | ||
|
Silverfoxx
United States184 Posts
On June 28 2012 05:35 Mora wrote: A reasonable response to what TB said, in my opinion, would have been the following: * Alerting him in a private message that the language he used was offensive to our minority, and leaving it there * Alerting him in a tweet of the same * Ignoring what he said, as he's obviously not anti-gay * Condoning his calling-out of a thief who attempted and succeeded in taking money from people All of these are reasonable, respectable, responses. Even though they are differing perspectives on his actions, they are all reasonable. What is not reasonable: * Thinking he's a bad person * Thinking that he condones treating homosexuals as second-class * Asking him to host or serve at a LGBT event to make-up for his sins * Jumping on a bandwagon condoning such persecution ^ This. Thanks Mora. Nice to see you back. | ||
| ||
