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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On November 02 2018 01:38 neptunusfisk wrote:
I have a computer from 2014 which does everything I want. The only problem is that it isn't super quiet, you can hear a monotone buzzing at all times.
So I'm thinking -- should I get a quieter PSU? (Because in my estimation, it is the loudest thing in there)
Or should I get a better (silent and insulated) case?
Or both? Recomendations?
The current PSU is some brand I know nothing about (topower or something like that) and I can't figure out what power it delivers, though I guess it's around 500 W.
Here are the components btw:
case - fractal design core 1500
MB - Gigabyte B85M-DS3H mATX
CPU - i5 4670
GPU - GTX 660 ti
1 x ssd
1 x hdd
2 x ram
Hard to say without being there myself. Try to figure out where the noise is coming from, if it's one part in particular you can replace that
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I would love some feedback, I am thinking to upgrade to either of the below systems:
Setup 1:
GTX 1070 ROG
Intel i5 8400
B360 Motherboard
2x8GB 2133/2400 RAM
Cooler for CPU
Setup 2:
ASUS STRIX-GTX 1070 ROG OC 8GB GDDR5
Intel i5 9600k
Z370 Motherboard
2x8GB 3200 MhZ RAM
Cooler for CPU
First of all I'd love opinions on which system to pick.Furthermore, I wonder if the above setups are worth the cost if I don't upgrade my current monitor.
This is my current monitor: https://www.samsung.com/us/computer/monitors/LS24A350HS/ZA-specs
If I dont upgrade to a 144 hz monitor (which means I'll keep playing on 1920x1080), which of the above setups are woth the cost for playing Ultra on 1920x1080 resolution? If not, what can I go for?
Lastly, I have got a Xigmatek Talon Mid Tower case which I bought 4 years ago. Would I have problems fitting these new parts?
Thanks.
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On November 02 2018 17:26 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2018 01:38 neptunusfisk wrote:
I have a computer from 2014 which does everything I want. The only problem is that it isn't super quiet, you can hear a monotone buzzing at all times.
So I'm thinking -- should I get a quieter PSU? (Because in my estimation, it is the loudest thing in there)
Or should I get a better (silent and insulated) case?
Or both? Recomendations?
The current PSU is some brand I know nothing about (topower or something like that) and I can't figure out what power it delivers, though I guess it's around 500 W.
Here are the components btw:
case - fractal design core 1500
MB - Gigabyte B85M-DS3H mATX
CPU - i5 4670
GPU - GTX 660 ti
1 x ssd
1 x hdd
2 x ram
Hard to say without being there myself. Try to figure out where the noise is coming from, if it's one part in particular you can replace that
Ok I will try replacing the PSU and report back if the noise is better.
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What is your budget?
None in particular but ideally spend as little as possible, so 2k CAD could be a start though I would have preferred closer to 1.5k CAD.
What is your monitor's native resolution?
1920x1080 so 1080p
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
-Nier Automata on highest settings possible
-Starcraft 2 co-op mode/campaign on highest settings (co-op mode in particular is more demanding on CPU compared to ladder). If the PC is built around Nier, would it be able to stream SC2?
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
General browsing and schoolwork. Maybe programming in the future but it remains to be seen.
Do you intend to overclock?
No
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
No
Do you need an operating system?
Yes. I'll check if my university sells cheaper Windows 10 OS or not.
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
I need a monitor and a set of speakers and both are part of the budget. 2 cheap mice and a keyboard would be nice but I can to some random electronic shop for those 3 unless they can be found cheap at the retailer mentionned below.
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
Nothing comes to mind for that.
What country will you be buying your parts in?
Canada
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
Canada Computers
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/Hh49Bb
This is the current build I made up and I don't know if the price is higher than I expected because of weak CAD or Nier Automata pushes the price higher. The plan is to come up with some build and see what adjustments could be made before Black Friday or Cyber Monday sales with friends so I thought more having more feedback would help before I buy it in 2 weeks.
Edit:Changed build a bit after some feedbacks. Ram is 2x4 gb, deleted duplicate monitor and optical drive. I've been told I can install W10 with a usb boot stick.
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Germany11787 Posts
You might wanna take a look at getting a higher Hz Monitor. I know that a lot of people really like having more than 60 Hz. I personally still have a 60 Hz monitor, but my next one will be higher.
Also, I think you might need some case fans which are not on your list yet. Not really expensive, but annoying if you try to build your PC and notice you don't have any.
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On November 10 2018 08:33 Simberto wrote:
You might wanna take a look at getting a higher Hz Monitor. I know that a lot of people really like having more than 60 Hz. I personally still have a 60 Hz monitor, but my next one will be higher.
Also, I think you might need some case fans which are not on your list yet. Not really expensive, but annoying if you try to build your PC and notice you don't have any.
Aren't fans usually included with the case? As for monitor, I do hear about the wonders of 144Hz. However, I'm pretty content with 60Hz for now and I don't think Starcraft 2 co-op and Nier Automata really need higher than 60 FPS unlike FPS. One thing to keep in mind is that it's a preliminary build to see if the right general idea is there. It's possible that in 2 weeks with Black Friday and Cyber Monday sale, a completely different build could come up.
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On November 10 2018 10:20 Rizare wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2018 08:33 Simberto wrote:
You might wanna take a look at getting a higher Hz Monitor. I know that a lot of people really like having more than 60 Hz. I personally still have a 60 Hz monitor, but my next one will be higher.
Also, I think you might need some case fans which are not on your list yet. Not really expensive, but annoying if you try to build your PC and notice you don't have any. Aren't fans usually included with the case? As for monitor, I do hear about the wonders of 144Hz. However, I'm pretty content with 60Hz for now and I don't think Starcraft 2 co-op and Nier Automata really need higher than 60 FPS unlike FPS. One thing to keep in mind is that it's a preliminary build to see if the right general idea is there. It's possible that in 2 weeks with Black Friday and Cyber Monday sale, a completely different build could come up.
Fans depends on the case. Generally most cases will come with a minimum of 1, usually 2(exhaust, intake+exhaust).
If you're looking to build a silent case, or close to it though, you'll probably have to fork out money for some more expensive fans which are quieter, as most case fans are somewhat noisier, or else don't push as much air if turned down. Just keep in mind the loudest thing will almost always be the GPU when playing most games, so this is only important when doing stuff that isn't gaming.
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I want to buy a new pc but I prefer to wait when ryzen 2 (next year) is out. I do not want to do the same mistake like 8 years ago (bought one shortly before intel 5 2500k came out which was like 25% better than all other cpus).
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On November 10 2018 10:20 Rizare wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2018 08:33 Simberto wrote:
You might wanna take a look at getting a higher Hz Monitor. I know that a lot of people really like having more than 60 Hz. I personally still have a 60 Hz monitor, but my next one will be higher.
Also, I think you might need some case fans which are not on your list yet. Not really expensive, but annoying if you try to build your PC and notice you don't have any. Aren't fans usually included with the case? As for monitor, I do hear about the wonders of 144Hz. However, I'm pretty content with 60Hz for now and I don't think Starcraft 2 co-op and Nier Automata really need higher than 60 FPS unlike FPS. One thing to keep in mind is that it's a preliminary build to see if the right general idea is there. It's possible that in 2 weeks with Black Friday and Cyber Monday sale, a completely different build could come up.
There are other benefits to higher refresh rates, most notably reduced and more consistent display lag. That happens even when the framerate is low - 144hz @ 60fps is far snappier than 60hz @ 60fps.
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Over to smoothness - while 60hz can display 60fps perfectly smoothly IF each frame is delivered 16.67ms apart, games don't typically do so. Some are worse than others. Video playback is usually the way that people see "perfect" 60fps content, not gameplay.
SC2 is particularly bad at delivering even frames which can make the higher refresh rate monitors stand out for smoothness and consistency.
When SC2 says that you have 60fps, some frames will take around 25-30ms to be created while others take 10ms. A 60hz monitor can't display that as effectively as a higher refresh rate monitor and appears to have a lower framerate, more visible microstutter etc.
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Many games like SC2 also use tricks like rendering the cursor independently of the framerate of the game so that it's always at 144fps.
Also of note, sc2 scales better than most games with RAM performance. Testing 2133 vs 4000mhz i got +23.5% FPS, but running more than 3600 or so is hard. There's a non negligable performance gain going with something like a 9600k + z390 (which also has 7% higher stock single core turbo core clock) with faster RAM on XMP profile even if you don't do CPU overclock, so keep that in mind if you were thinking that nothing would give more game performance than 2400mhz.
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Well at that point, only thing I can say is that it really sucks that I'll have to be stuck with 60Hz instead of 144Hz but there isn't much I can do about it. At the very least, you make it sound like that even if I don't get 144+ FPS in the games I play, I can still benefit from it between 60 and 144FPS. From what I understand, I would have to spend more to get a 144Hz monitor but also get a GTX 1070 because apparently the 1060 6GB may not be enough for 1080p 144Hz unless that's not the case if I don't play FPS or the newest AAA game.
As for RAM, the current MB highest clockspeed it can support if there's no overclocking (and I won't OC) is 2666. I don't know if it will matter because in Starcraft 2 co-op, there are certain characters whose playstyle drops down the frame massively and at that point, whether it's 1 or 2 FPS won't change the fact that it's no longer 30+ FPS.
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/2HtB9J
This is the second build following the build in the first post. What changed are the monitor, GPU brand, 16GB ram instead of 8, case, PSU and added an external HDD.
Only thing that I could hope for if I want a 144Hz monitor is that Black Friday sales are big enough for me to take advantage of it. Speaking of which, it will be the first time I ever do Black Friday/Cyber Monday shopping so I don't even know what kind of sales I should expect.
Edi: One thing I noticed is that the monitor has 75Hz which is surprising because I usually hear about 60 or 144Hz so I don't know if it traded something off for that higher refresh rate considering how cheap it is.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
At the very least, you make it sound like that even if I don't get 144+ FPS in the games I play, I can still benefit from it between 60 and 144FPS
Even at or below 60fps, that's what i was trying to get across.
From what I understand, I would have to spend more to get a 144Hz monitor but also get a GTX 1070 because apparently the 1060 6GB may not be enough for 1080p 144Hz unless that's not the case if I don't play FPS or the newest AAA game.
It really depends on the game and what you're doing. General computer tasks benefit a ton, many games like starcraft 2 will run like 15% load even on a 1060. On some of the more graphically intensive games you'd have to drop settings and/or tolerate lower FPS so the experience wouldn't be as good as having a higher end GPU, no.
at that point, whether it's 1 or 2 FPS won't change the fact that it's no longer 30+ FPS
A 1fps difference at 30fps feels more than twice as impactful as a 2fps difference at 60, a 20% swing from 25 to 30 would feel like more than the difference between 50 and 60 FPS.
The upper tier locked i5 with 2666mhz RAM is pretty good performance for sc2, it's a good buy if you don't want to do anything with bios settings.
I do think that >60hz monitors (usually 120 or 144 for the decently priced ones) are a great buy and one of the most important parts of my PC. It was such a big upgrade that i went all in and got a far more expensive 240hz gsync monitor four years later, as soon as they were out.
Edi: One thing I noticed is that the monitor has 75Hz which is surprising because I usually hear about 60 or 144Hz so I don't know if it traded something off for that higher refresh rate considering how cheap it is.
There's more of a range of refresh rates available now. 75 occasionally, 100, 120, 144, 165, 180(?), 240 etc.
75 is straight up better than 60 for general gameplay but 75hz can't display fixed 60fps/30fps media as well as 60hz can, so some users may want to toggle down to 60hz sometimes for that content.
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On November 13 2018 00:20 Cyro wrote:
75 is straight up better than 60 for general gameplay but 75hz can't display fixed 60fps/30fps media as well as 60hz can, so some users may want to toggle down to 60hz sometimes for that content.
120/144 etc don't have the problem with fixed 30/60fps media?
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On November 13 2018 01:01 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2018 00:20 Cyro wrote:
75 is straight up better than 60 for general gameplay but 75hz can't display fixed 60fps/30fps media as well as 60hz can, so some users may want to toggle down to 60hz sometimes for that content. 120/144 etc don't have the problem with fixed 30/60fps media?
120 divides into 60 and 30 without any remainder so it can display them perfectly
144 can't but it doesn't fail as hard.
To work out how bad they are at displaying certain fixed framerates you should divide the static refresh rate by the framerate of the content:
75/60 = 1.25 refreshes per frame, you only have 4 frames for every 5 refreshes so the motion isn't perfect.
You want this number to divide evenly into 1; it should be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc.
Failing that, the higher the number the better. 1.5 is awful (2 frames per 3 refreshes) but 5.5 isn't visibly much worse than 6.0 (11 frames per 12 refreshes)
Higher refresh rates also tend to make the errors less clearly visible because the slice of time that a 1 refresh error in motion can cause is inversely proportional to refresh rate.
120/60 = 2, so it's perfect.
144/60 = 2.4 which isn't perfect but it's fairly good.
In theory Gsync fixes this (usually minor) problem by always refreshing once per frame but in practice it's often not useful - i can't find any media player which supports it and windows has various problems that also get in the way.
This doesn't usefully apply to most games (exception for if you're FPS limiting to exactly e.g. 60 and holding it there) because game frametimes are usually variable, sometimes highly variable. It's most relevant to media like videos which have a rock solid constant framerate. It's also quite nitpicky, it's a problem that very few people know or care about.
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@Amui
The case in the second preliminary build at least comes with 1 or 4 fans from the looks of it. So while it would be better to buy different fans, at least that case has fans unlike the Corsair 200R.
@Cyro
Monitor: I still stand by my case that a 1080p and 144Hz monitor is too expensive for me, so unfortunately I won't be able to experience the amazing 144Hz and turn down your offer. Last I checked with partpicker, the cheapest 144Hz monitor from Canada Computers was around 300 CAD while the current 75Hz monitor is just 130 CAD (I may get a slightly more expensive one like 150-170 CAD if there are features you guys think are important like IPS, whatever that is, or others). If somehow a 1080p at 144Hz monitor price could drop down below 200 CAD and I can stick with the GTX 1060, then I'll consider it. At the very least, 75Hz should be better than 60Hz for games while for anything else, I could tune the refresh rate down if needed.
From what people who played the game told me, Nier Automata framerate is locked at 60 FPS so there's that too.
GPU: The reason why I chose the GTX 1060 6GB VRAM is because Nier Automata recommended specs has 4GB VRAM so that's the lowest I can go while for the GTX 1070, I suddenly have to drop an additional 130-210 CAD. Based on things I read around, the 1060 is fine for 1080p at 60Hz while the 1070 is for either 1440p or 1080p at 144Hz. Is it a good thing or a bad thing that games need 15% load on the 1060?
RAM: Sure, I can go with 2666MHz RAM instead of 2400. No idea how the Corsair Vengeance series is so yeah.
Could you elaborate how the the clock speed affects Starcraft 2? As far as I know, the CPU is the biggest factor because the game engine can't take advantage of more than 1/2 cores apparently and more RAM is always good, but I don't see where clock speed comes in.
Beside those, is a 750W PSU fine? I thought it would be overkill according to the first post but guess things have changed since then. Based on this calculator, I may even need a 850W PSU but I don't know if I'm playing it too close with 650W or 750W.
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/ssgfGG
Switched to 2666MHz RAM. My university doesn't offer a discount Windows 10 so we'll have to stick with that. Does everything in that build seem fine so far? I still have until next week to finalize it.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
Is it a good thing or a bad thing that games need 15% load on the 1060?
It's just saying that even a 1060 is way more performance than many games - especially older games or in the MMO/RTS genre - need or see any benefit from. Some graphically demanding games will push a 1060 6GB on 1080p60 but the majority of my games library would not, it depends what you spend most of your gaming hours doing. It's a pretty good card to buy because of the jump to 6GB VRAM instead of 3GB and being able to handle those demanding games that you do play.
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Could you elaborate how the the clock speed affects Starcraft 2? As far as I know, the CPU is the biggest factor because the game engine can't take advantage of more than 1/2 cores apparently and more RAM is always good, but I don't see where clock speed comes in.
The performance increases roughly linearly with CPU core speed so 7% higher clocks is roughly 7% higher performance
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750w is ridiculous overkill, your build's power draw from the PSU would be somewhere around 225w under heavy load (max GPU and many CPU cores at the same time) so in the lower end to middle of a 450w unit's efficiency curve.
#1 consumer is the gtx1060 which has a whole-card-power limit of 120 watts and will throttle to stay under that. That includes the graphics processor, the memory, the power conversion from 12v to operating voltages for them and even the fans on the card (which funnily enough means that you can sometimes gain FPS by lowering fan speed so that they eat 5-10 watts less of the graphics card's power budget)
#2 is CPU which is considerably less; it has a 65w limit which it can only violate a little bit and for a short time during turbo frequencies.
Other power consumption is stuff like the RAM sticks, a hard drive, case fans; usually single digit watts here and there. Powering stuff via USB can draw a bit.
Pretty much any half decent PSU will easily handle the power draw so you need to look at things like the quality of the PSU, the efficiency (not all that important as long as it's 80+ bronze or better) and the connectors that it has - for example, some graphics cards require a 6-pin connector, others require a 6+2, others require dual 6-pins etc. Seasonic is generally one of the more solid brands. A single 6-pin is good for an entry level PSU, i go for 550-650w with 2x 6+2 pin connectors for higher end units to power more hardcore gaming setups or so that a system can be upgraded to that stuff but there's usually no need unless you're buying really expensive stuff these days.
Build looks fairly good although don't take my word for little compatibility things. You might not want to use an aftermarket CPU cooler because that i5 should come with one that works okay.
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I made a slight mistake, It should have been ram clock speed because usually it's not a criteria that comes up to mind like how much memory I'll get from all the sticks unless the performance increase is related to the cpu. Better clock speed CPU is pretty obvious that it will be better than a different lower clock speed CPU.
The Seasonic Focus Plus 650W Gold should be fine because the jonnyguru site reviewed both the 750W and 850W and the reviewer was pleased with both of them. A different site mentions how both those 2 were really good and 650W is just as good as those 2.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
The RAM performance (higher bandwidth, decreased latency) contributes to CPU performance because the CPU spends less time waiting for memory transfers that it needs to do key calculations so it can spend more of its clock cycles doing useful work. The amount of time spent waiting for the memory (and thus potential performance gains from reducing that waiting) is different for different CPU workloads, different game engines etc.
Usually game engines that scale with memory performance do so from higher bandwidth much more than they do from decreased latency but that also varies depending on the game or task.
For rough good performance numbers you'd want a high listed frequency (bandwidth) and also a high ( frequency / cas ) at the same time which means low latency because memory latency is set via the amount of memory clock cycles for an operation to happen.
2666/13 = 205 for example, so it's lower (faster) latency on paper than 2666/14 which equals 190 and 2666/15 which equals 178.
2666 > 2400 so it's higher bandwidth on paper.
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Hello guys,
as 8 years passed and my old PC is dying, I cannot play SC2 even on medium-low anymore, it's time to buy a new one. I must point out I am total scrub when it comes to configuring my own PC so I took advice from friend for this one. Since I have not a large budget (400 Euros or 450$), I got offer for that money to buy this configuration :
AMD Ryzen Processor, 8 GB RAM
ASUS PRIME A320M-K, IGP, HDMI, PCIEX16, 2xPCIE, Dual DDR4, SATA3, Audio 7.1, GLan, USB 3.1
AMD Ryzen 3 1200 4 cores 3.1 GHz (3.4GHz) Box (socket AM4)
8 GB DDR4 2666MHz CL19 Transcend JM2666HLB-8G
SSD 240 GB ADATA ASU650SS-240GT-C SATA3 R/W 520/450 MB/s
ASUS AMD Radeon RX 550 2GB 128bit AREZ-PH-RX550-2G
ATX Midi MS HUNTER w/o PSU
MS MS-630 630W
HDMI (M) to VGA (F) + Audio Adapter
Can someone tell me if this configuration is good enough to play sc2 at medium and decent fps? I know I can't have beast PC with this money but I am looking for, at least, something decent.
Thank you in advance.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
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EPT
