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Can someone recommend me a small, portable mini-ITX build as cheap as possible while keeping as many parts as possible? I'm thinking there has to be a way I can probably do this for under 500? 600? Compatibility is a bitch, cus I dont mind the gtx 970, but a new cpu/mobo itself is like 300.
Can't you just swap out the motherboard for one that's compatible with your CPU?
You will also need a new power supply (that is smaller). And will need to make sure you can fit your video card in there.
Plus case that should be below $500.
While true, I wanted to kinda upgrade my CPU a bit just because a mobo that's compatible with the 3770 is hard to find, since it's fairly outdated. I suppose I'll keep looking
A new CPU will require new RAM. So you need a new mobo, cpu, ram, psu, case, and can reuse the gfx card and harddrives.
Might be tough to fit all of that under 600, but its possible I guess.
Yeah, exactly. With a new nvidia cpu releasing every year and essentially each one requiring a different mobo, it creates a domino effect of - if you change one thing, you have to change so many other things....
Er, what?
Nvidia does not manufacture CPUs.
DDR3 was used for a decade before DDR4. There's no DDR5 happening anytime soon, meaning RAM is very reusable and having to replace it is atypical.
Aftermarket heatsinks will typically have adapter mounts available for new CPUs for a generation or so.
Typically when upgrading a CPU the only other thing you need to replace is the motherboard.
once upon a time my laptop's fan wouldn't spin unless I played a heavyweight game. Now it works close to %100 nearly all the time and temps never go below 60C with only thing being open is single teamliquid tab in opera.
heatsink is perfectly clean and thermal paste is reapplied, even though its not top quality paste. What can I do more to turn it back to old silent fan days?.
So I came on here ages ago looking advice to upgrade and I never did upgrade. So Now I am looking at it again. My original computer I built from advice on this website and it has served me really well. But I am now looking to really get a high end machine capable of running AAA titles and future titles. Anyway template;
What is your budget? Right now its not a big issue. Obviously would like to get best value, but there is no cap on this.
What is your monitor's native resolution? Currently 1080p but upgrading to 4k
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings? Elite Dangerous, Dota 2, AAA Titles, future titles (star citizen etc)
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming? Im a Live sound engineer and I work with a few bands. I am looking into to do some audio editing with Abelton / Cubase. I am also considering doing some experimenation with projector mapping using madmapper etc. (I do alot of AV work too)
Do you intend to overclock? Yes. A bit. Not too extreme
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire? Doubt it.
Do you need an operating system? I have windows 7 legit. I presume I can get a legit win10 copy via this as I currently am running win10 from the free upgrade thing
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget? Yes, 4k monitor.
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify. Intel CPU
What country will you be buying your parts in? UK
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify. N/A
HD/SSD May just use existing 256 SSD and 1TB 7200rpm drive. Or else may just get a 500 gb SSD. Undecided...
A few questions;
1) Would consider just getting 2x8gb RAM and upgrading to 32 down the line. Is it better to buy them as a pack or is it fine to add 2 more down the line?
2)Cooling - May consider getting another fan for the top of the case. Current case has 3 fans (front,top and rear)
3) PSU - Really not sure on how much watts i need here. I just worked that out by a website that calculates. Am I miles off the mark here?
4) And finally one curve ball. What if I just got some new RAM and the 1080ti and chucked into my current build, would this work and give significant upgrade, and then I could get the rest at a later date? I think I would need to upgrade the PSU aswell ?
I also know I can use my existing case, but I may just keep the PC and give it to the kids or sell it on 2nd hand. Get much for it?
1) You can add more sticks of RAM later, and 99% chance it works. Just make sure you have the same voltage, frequency, and latencies and you'll be fine. I'd get a popular kit just so it'll be around 1-2 years down the road. I think 16GB will be sufficient for almost everything, I don't know much about the audio programs, but I think you're better off getting 16GB now.
2) Anything past 2 fans is negligible, LinusTechTips did a video, and they showed something like a 2 degree difference between running 2 and 5 fans. If you want to fill your fan slots for the sake of filling them, okay, but wont be doing much. Rather if you're going to spend the money, the 8700k is a power hungry CPU, get a Noctua D15 cooler, or something similar, you'll notice more significant gains there. It's pretty pricey, so feel free to look at their lower models. The D15 is the bar for air coolers (and water coolers) in both the noise and temperature departments.
3) 700-750W is what I'd recommend, I think fully overclocked you could get by with a 600W PSU though.
4) You could plug in your GTX1080ti, and it would work, and you'd see like 8x the frame rate for most games. I think without any overclocks the power supply could handle it. Your motherboard doesn't support DDR4 RAM, so you can't just buy new RAM unless you buy DDR3, which would be buying old technology that isn't as good just to make it work. So if you buy new RAM, you need a new mobo and a new processor.
I think on kiiji/craiglist you could sell your old computer for 300-350USD, but that depends exactly on your locality.
Pascal GPU's are voltage limited and not so much heat limited, so you can save yourself a few bucks and get the cheapest edition for practically the same performance. The Strix is more expensive than most where I live. SSD's are a big upgrade, I think they are the biggest upgrade you can make in modern systems, especially with m.2 getting so popular. Not sure how much space your audio files take up, but for someone like me, a 500GB SSD is enough for all my stuff, and being able to work at such high speeds is a treat. Nowadays the only thing I'd use HDD's for is if you have large movie/picture libraries, recording from streaming, etc. Programs are just so much more responsive on SSD's.
Faster RAM speeds aren't a bad idea, with a 1080ti you'll start to be processor limited in more and more games (processor means processing and accessing the data as well, so RAM is also a bottleneck). Anyway, getting some 3000-3866Mhz RAM isn't a bad idea... All depends on how much you want to spend, and the premium you'd pay from where you're buying, but for gaming, it'd give you an improvement of 5-15% in your minimums (2666 vs 3866~). For productivity applications, it's supposedly not very significant.
I don't know much about 4K monitors, so no input there, if you're into gaming primary, a high refresh rate 1440p display might treat you better, as even the 1080ti struggles to push out a lot of frames in 4K, and for games most people would rather take a game playing in 1440p144hz versus 2160p60hz. But if your work is more of a priority, having a prettier screen for still pictures might be more important. If you want to go the 1440p144hz route, the Dell S2716DG is one that I'd vouch for as a budget option in this category.
Yes on my research I had discovered that about the RAM and CPU and essentially I needed to upgrade everything. However I am leaning towards doing a partial upgrade and possibly waiting to upgrade the CPU when the Ice Lake comes out, however the coffee lake processors are a really good performance jump from what I have seen.
Saying that, I could pick up the new PSU, GPU and some cheap RAM for now. I know what you are saying about not buying DDR3, and I get it, but upgrading to 16gb could be a good stopgap for now if I hold back on a full build. I have my CPU OC at 4.2 Ghz currently and that's stable. I would only be able to get DDR3 1600 as thats max my current mobo supports.
Your points on the screen have got me thinking indeed. I really cannot decide between 4k 60hz or 120/140hz 1080/1440 screen. Sure in an ideal world I would love a high res screen with a high refresh rate, but the reality is, there isn't any 4k 144hz as its just not there yet (I know there is a couple, but not really, but super expensive). Having a 1440p high refresh rate screen might be a better choice indeed. However I do want it to be an IPS rather than TN. The screen I linked there had a serious discount which was making it quite attractive.
Just a point on the RAM speeds, from my research the highest speed that the i7 8700k supported was 2666 which is why I chose that speed. Correct me if I am wrong.
Regarding GPU - I have tried to find out more info on what cards to go for. Again on research the strix cards seemed to be well regarded which is why I chose that one, and it is on offer. If you can recommend a different card manufacture, as I do not know whats really good or bad with the different brands out there.
And finally regarding Hard drives. I currently have a 256 SSD and a 1 TB 7200rpm drive. I keep all the games etc on the SSD and use the older drive for more storing larger files (music, movies etc) May get a 500gb as the 256 is running out, esp with some newer games requiring huge amounts of disk space.
So I guess I need to do a bit more thinking, I could upgrade the GPU, PSU and some cheaper RAM and see huge benefits?? But should I fork out the extra cash for coffee lake now or hold off??
Can someone recommend me a small, portable mini-ITX build as cheap as possible while keeping as many parts as possible? I'm thinking there has to be a way I can probably do this for under 500? 600? Compatibility is a bitch, cus I dont mind the gtx 970, but a new cpu/mobo itself is like 300.
Can't you just swap out the motherboard for one that's compatible with your CPU?
You will also need a new power supply (that is smaller). And will need to make sure you can fit your video card in there.
Plus case that should be below $500.
While true, I wanted to kinda upgrade my CPU a bit just because a mobo that's compatible with the 3770 is hard to find, since it's fairly outdated. I suppose I'll keep looking
A new CPU will require new RAM. So you need a new mobo, cpu, ram, psu, case, and can reuse the gfx card and harddrives.
Might be tough to fit all of that under 600, but its possible I guess.
Yeah, exactly. With a new nvidia cpu releasing every year and essentially each one requiring a different mobo, it creates a domino effect of - if you change one thing, you have to change so many other things....
Er, what?
Nvidia does not manufacture CPUs.
DDR3 was used for a decade before DDR4. There's no DDR5 happening anytime soon, meaning RAM is very reusable and having to replace it is atypical.
Aftermarket heatsinks will typically have adapter mounts available for new CPUs for a generation or so.
Typically when upgrading a CPU the only other thing you need to replace is the motherboard.
Intel*
Considering my current build has ddr3-1600 RAM, that's gonna be a toughie to keep while upgrading...
On December 27 2017 20:10 Chewits wrote: Thanks for the thorough response.
Yes on my research I had discovered that about the RAM and CPU and essentially I needed to upgrade everything. However I am leaning towards doing a partial upgrade and possibly waiting to upgrade the CPU when the Ice Lake comes out, however the coffee lake processors are a really good performance jump from what I have seen.
Saying that, I could pick up the new PSU, GPU and some cheap RAM for now. I know what you are saying about not buying DDR3, and I get it, but upgrading to 16gb could be a good stopgap for now if I hold back on a full build. I have my CPU OC at 4.2 Ghz currently and that's stable. I would only be able to get DDR3 1600 as thats max my current mobo supports.
Your points on the screen have got me thinking indeed. I really cannot decide between 4k 60hz or 120/140hz 1080/1440 screen. Sure in an ideal world I would love a high res screen with a high refresh rate, but the reality is, there isn't any 4k 144hz as its just not there yet (I know there is a couple, but not really, but super expensive). Having a 1440p high refresh rate screen might be a better choice indeed. However I do want it to be an IPS rather than TN. The screen I linked there had a serious discount which was making it quite attractive.
Just a point on the RAM speeds, from my research the highest speed that the i7 8700k supported was 2666 which is why I chose that speed. Correct me if I am wrong.
Regarding GPU - I have tried to find out more info on what cards to go for. Again on research the strix cards seemed to be well regarded which is why I chose that one, and it is on offer. If you can recommend a different card manufacture, as I do not know whats really good or bad with the different brands out there.
And finally regarding Hard drives. I currently have a 256 SSD and a 1 TB 7200rpm drive. I keep all the games etc on the SSD and use the older drive for more storing larger files (music, movies etc) May get a 500gb as the 256 is running out, esp with some newer games requiring huge amounts of disk space.
So I guess I need to do a bit more thinking, I could upgrade the GPU, PSU and some cheaper RAM and see huge benefits?? But should I fork out the extra cash for coffee lake now or hold off??
Thanks
Coffee lake is still quite new, I don't think waiting makes much sense. We had the largest generation jump by having coffee lake released since the last time you built your computer (Sandy Bridge)... There will likely be more improvements to GPU's in the next year compared to CPU's. Realistically, expect a 5-20% performance gain per dollar, if it's worth the hassle, feel free, but as of now we know nothing about ice lake.
The RAM speed of 2666Mhz is only straight out of the box, you can go into the bios when you install it, and change the RAM XMP. Here you can go as high as you want, though with current DDR4 technology, they usually only go up to 3866 until the manufacturer has to keep raising CAS timings until the physical time latencies are the same between say 3866 vs 4266, so no real point in going any higher. As you get higher speed, the RAM is the bottleneck during fewer CPU operations, and that's why from say 2666 to 3000Mhz you'll see more performance gain than from 3000 to 3333 for example. Anyway, depending on the costs, if you want some extra performance, take a look at some 3200 to 3866Mhz RAM.
A 1080ti will get you like 50-60 fps in AAA games at 4k resolution, and you don't need a high resolution refresh rate for non gaming things, since you wont really find videos hosted at above 60fps. There are 1440p144hz+ gsync displays with an IPS panel, but those are pretty much the highest end of the market, The ROG Swift PG279Q, and Acer has one as well, and I believe one other company when I was looking a little under a year ago. The monitor market hasn't been changing much over the last 2 years.
As for graphics cards, all depends on the price, what I'm saying is that they are the same. They all buy the same transistors from Nvidia, and then they potentially change the IO, add a heatsink and fan, some RGB, bundle some of their own software, and voila, new card. But because RGB and fans don't really matter for Pascal cards (they did previous generations, but Nvidia locked the voltages to lower levels, so you just can't raise the voltage high enough to achieve stability, even if your card is running cool).
For example, I myself run a Zotac GTX 1070 mini, it's a small form factor card, by not a particularly popular GPU manufacturer... And I'm able to keep this clocked at 2050Mhz at 65-70C, whereas if you bought the most crazy watercooled solution and won the jackpot in the silicon lottery, at best you could run 2125Mhz, probably 2100Mhz. EVGA, MSI, Gigabyte, ASUS, and Zotac are all good companies, the Strix on newegg costs $800 (not bad actually, when I was looking at 1070's and 1080's, they were a bit more than that from the base models), while the cheapest ASUS card costs $710, and will have within 3-5% the overclocked performance of the strix. So the more basic ones will be more performance for the dollar, but maybe you value aesthetics a lot, so anyway.
Yep, up to you... I have my HDD from my old computer which I still have windows on, as well as the SSD from my new computer, and Windows got corrupt on my SSD, switched to my HDD while I sent my SSD back... Awful awful. Having to be careful about what you leave running on start up, loading anything, ugh. I've used the Evo 850 (SATA SSD), and the Intel 750 (PCIE SSD), and the difference is there. Your build is quite expensive already, so not sure if I should be suggesting more luxury options haha.
The performance gain you can get from upgrading your CPU as well can be seen here:
Really game dependent, the 2500k and 2600k had very similar gaming benchmarks, subtract 0-5% from the 2600k fps to get your 2500k. I think their game choice was a little bit poor though, and I think most newer games would see a 20-30% performance increase with the 8700k, more along the lines of GTA V in the benchmark (Witcher III would perform similarly to GTA V for sure).
Can someone recommend me a small, portable mini-ITX build as cheap as possible while keeping as many parts as possible? I'm thinking there has to be a way I can probably do this for under 500? 600? Compatibility is a bitch, cus I dont mind the gtx 970, but a new cpu/mobo itself is like 300.
Can't you just swap out the motherboard for one that's compatible with your CPU?
You will also need a new power supply (that is smaller). And will need to make sure you can fit your video card in there.
Plus case that should be below $500.
While true, I wanted to kinda upgrade my CPU a bit just because a mobo that's compatible with the 3770 is hard to find, since it's fairly outdated. I suppose I'll keep looking
A new CPU will require new RAM. So you need a new mobo, cpu, ram, psu, case, and can reuse the gfx card and harddrives.
Might be tough to fit all of that under 600, but its possible I guess.
Yeah, exactly. With a new nvidia cpu releasing every year and essentially each one requiring a different mobo, it creates a domino effect of - if you change one thing, you have to change so many other things....
Er, what?
Nvidia does not manufacture CPUs.
DDR3 was used for a decade before DDR4. There's no DDR5 happening anytime soon, meaning RAM is very reusable and having to replace it is atypical.
Aftermarket heatsinks will typically have adapter mounts available for new CPUs for a generation or so.
Typically when upgrading a CPU the only other thing you need to replace is the motherboard.
Intel*
Considering my current build has ddr3-1600 RAM, that's gonna be a toughie to keep while upgrading...
It is a bit disappointing that there is no backwards compatibility, certainly. Between DDR3 and DDR4, not much has changed for the consumer, especially the desktop one. As their timings are almost the same, a DDR3 module and DDR4 module running at the same frequency will have the same level of performance. No desktop user cares about the whether it's using 1.5 or 1.35 volts, and whether 16GB of DDR4 is using 6W, or 16GB of DDR3 is using 7.5W.
Can someone recommend me a small, portable mini-ITX build as cheap as possible while keeping as many parts as possible? I'm thinking there has to be a way I can probably do this for under 500? 600? Compatibility is a bitch, cus I dont mind the gtx 970, but a new cpu/mobo itself is like 300.
Can't you just swap out the motherboard for one that's compatible with your CPU?
You will also need a new power supply (that is smaller). And will need to make sure you can fit your video card in there.
Plus case that should be below $500.
While true, I wanted to kinda upgrade my CPU a bit just because a mobo that's compatible with the 3770 is hard to find, since it's fairly outdated. I suppose I'll keep looking
A new CPU will require new RAM. So you need a new mobo, cpu, ram, psu, case, and can reuse the gfx card and harddrives.
Might be tough to fit all of that under 600, but its possible I guess.
Yeah, exactly. With a new nvidia cpu releasing every year and essentially each one requiring a different mobo, it creates a domino effect of - if you change one thing, you have to change so many other things....
Er, what?
Nvidia does not manufacture CPUs.
DDR3 was used for a decade before DDR4. There's no DDR5 happening anytime soon, meaning RAM is very reusable and having to replace it is atypical.
Aftermarket heatsinks will typically have adapter mounts available for new CPUs for a generation or so.
Typically when upgrading a CPU the only other thing you need to replace is the motherboard.
Intel*
Considering my current build has ddr3-1600 RAM, that's gonna be a toughie to keep while upgrading...
Yes, my point is that while this time you're required to upgrade a fair bit of parts, it's far from the norm and definitely not a "every year change everything" kind of deal.
No desktop user cares about the whether it's using 1.5 or 1.35 volts, and whether 16GB of DDR4 is using 6W, or 16GB of DDR3 is using 7.5W.
There were also already DDR3 sticks running at 1.35v. I wonder if there are more meaningful reasons why they couldn't make the slots support both types.
Can someone recommend me a small, portable mini-ITX build as cheap as possible while keeping as many parts as possible? I'm thinking there has to be a way I can probably do this for under 500? 600? Compatibility is a bitch, cus I dont mind the gtx 970, but a new cpu/mobo itself is like 300.
Can't you just swap out the motherboard for one that's compatible with your CPU?
You will also need a new power supply (that is smaller). And will need to make sure you can fit your video card in there.
Plus case that should be below $500.
While true, I wanted to kinda upgrade my CPU a bit just because a mobo that's compatible with the 3770 is hard to find, since it's fairly outdated. I suppose I'll keep looking
A new CPU will require new RAM. So you need a new mobo, cpu, ram, psu, case, and can reuse the gfx card and harddrives.
Might be tough to fit all of that under 600, but its possible I guess.
Yeah, exactly. With a new nvidia cpu releasing every year and essentially each one requiring a different mobo, it creates a domino effect of - if you change one thing, you have to change so many other things....
Er, what?
Nvidia does not manufacture CPUs.
DDR3 was used for a decade before DDR4. There's no DDR5 happening anytime soon, meaning RAM is very reusable and having to replace it is atypical.
Aftermarket heatsinks will typically have adapter mounts available for new CPUs for a generation or so.
Typically when upgrading a CPU the only other thing you need to replace is the motherboard.
Intel*
Considering my current build has ddr3-1600 RAM, that's gonna be a toughie to keep while upgrading...
It is a bit disappointing that there is no backwards compatibility, certainly. Between DDR3 and DDR4, not much has changed for the consumer, especially the desktop one. As their timings are almost the same, a DDR3 module and DDR4 module running at the same frequency will have the same level of performance. No desktop user cares about the whether it's using 1.5 or 1.35 volts, and whether 16GB of DDR4 is using 6W, or 16GB of DDR3 is using 7.5W.
Around the transition to ddr4 we had skylake boards that ran ddr3 instead but they basically only existed so that people could swap platforms while using their old RAM and disappeared shortly after launch
some ddr3 kits do run XMP voltages that are nuts for later gen controllers though; think 1.7v+ on a mem controller designed for 1.2v.
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I think their game choice was a little bit poor though, and I think most newer games would see a 20-30% performance increase with the 8700k
Can get much more than that
see
This bench has the 8700k in a disadvantaged position and it's still wrecking. It's often 40-50% faster than the OC'd 3770k on a range of games and at several moments in the crysis 3 bench it's peaking more than twice as fast. With a fair bench (stock v stock or max OC vs max OC) the gaps are even bigger, this is more of an overview of the gains from architectural improvements and the extra cores.
There is a really good 5 part YouTube video series that is super in depth with a lot of information on a 8700k premium build. Learned alot from that , hopefully someone else may find it useful aswell. -
Well after many hours of research and many hours of sourcing all the parts for the build at the cheapest/best value I ended up bottling and decided to not go ahead. In my research I came to the conclusion that I am not ready to part with with £2,200 on a PC build. So I decided to just pickup a much cheaper and probably better value GTX 1070 and some new faster RAM (i had 1600 but discovered I can run 2333, and I only had 8gb so upg to 16gb, which should help alot) and I also got a new Monitor.
Ive also decided that I would rather upgrade this machine slightly and actually look into spending the rest of that £2,200 on a decent PC laptop as it will be much more useful with my job than the desktop PC will be. ( I will be wanting to record multi track using dante virtual soundcard, and use the same system to do Virtual soundchecks.)
I am sure I will upgrade to a 8700k at some point in 2018, but not just yet. Even though I did not go ahead with the full build I have learned a load of information and even more about my current build.
I'm thinking about upgrading from my 10yo Q6600 (socket 775). I have 3 goals:
1) I want a much quieter system 2) I want to eliminate my Win7 partition. As I only have it to play Starcraft, I need a decent binary GNU/Linux driver for whatever GPU I end up with. The problem now is that my current card is so old that the only possible driver is nouveau, which doesn't have all the calls SC:RE needs. 3) I want good single-core performance, as some of the stuff I run in dosbox is sluggish. However, probably any recent CPU will achieve this as my core2 2.4 Ghz is likely trounced by most anything available now.
Other considerations: * My hard drive is also 10 years old! I want to switch to SSD. * I am thinking about some Ryzen 3 setup. a 1200 or 1300 probably. I don't care about hyperthreading. * I'm thinking about a nvidia 710 with 2GB. my GPU needs are light, but 64-bit memory interface kinda bothers me. OTOH, I find fanless very appealing. * I'm not averse to overclocking, as I've overclocked my current CPU to 3.2 Ghz for probably 1/4 of its life. I eventually stopped, because of the power governor not working properly unless running at stock speed. Is this still an issue? Basically, if OC, this system always runs at performance setting, instead of ondemand as I'd prefer. * dang, memory is expensive... $80 for the same 8 Gig I have now? ok, different tech, but stilll... frick.
Thoughts or suggestions? Don't plan a build or anything, just comment if something above strikes you as particularly correct or wrong as it relates to the goals.
At least in Windows, these days CPUs underclock themselves when idle even when overclocked and draw much less power. Per software readings mine uses about 28W when not doing much, 65W under load, and 90W under Prime95.
On December 31 2017 12:19 Dav1oN wrote: guys, can someone recommend me GPU and motherboard for i3 8100 s1151 with budget ~180$ for comfort gaming and working with basic photoshop stuff?
Not really possible right now, as only the high end chipsets - the z370 are available for coffeelake chips, which will be $120. But the cheapest ASUS/MSI/Gigabyte Z370 board where you're buying will be the way to go, and then a GTX 1050 ($120) to pair with it.
On December 31 2017 12:19 Dav1oN wrote: guys, can someone recommend me GPU and motherboard for i3 8100 s1151 with budget ~180$ for comfort gaming and working with basic photoshop stuff?
Not really possible right now, as only the high end chipsets - the z370 are available for coffeelake chips, which will be $120. But the cheapest ASUS/MSI/Gigabyte Z370 board where you're buying will be the way to go, and then a GTX 1050 ($120) to pair with it.
So just an extra 60$, okay, thank you.
I hope newgen intel processors does not require extra cooling and simple box cooler doing fine? 550W PSU 80+ would be enough to power the whole system without issues?
EPT
