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On July 18 2026 04:09 Moonerz wrote:
This was my concern when they were testing the 8 worker change. It's a "small" change with big cascading effects. They're never going to sufficiently test these things at this point so we're just gonna get trial and error patches with no idea where to go. If we just simply reverted to 6, if you HAD to change worker count for some unknown reason after a decade, I think it would've been easier to balance because we have tons of knowledge/experience of how the economy should play out with 6 workers.
Not to mention how many research times/costs were adjusted to account for the new lotv econ speed.
Instead we have this because people thought less workers would magically make the game more skill based or early game focused.
yea they do not have an army of playtesters anymore, they obviously can't be doing changes like this unless maybe they want to spend 4+ months in PTR while tweaking the PTR, and then freeze it a month before release and make sure it's good long term
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On July 18 2026 13:25 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2026 06:52 Herringbone wrote:On July 18 2026 02:08 BlackEyed wrote:
I'm so sick of Ghosts. I seriously can't stand watching this pew pew anymore, and they just keep buffing them over and over again.
Just a quick reminder: 15 Ghosts take up 30 supply. Each Ghost can fire two Snipes for 170 damage each, that's 340 damage per Ghost. 340 × 15 = 5,100 damage from just 30 army supply.
That's enough to kill 26 Lurkers (80 supply) or 22 Brood Lords (90 supply).
And on top of that, Ghosts hard-counter every spellcaster. Even when they're out of energy, they're still nothing like an Infestor that's completely useless without energy. They're Ghosts - they'll just keep shooting you from 7 range for 15 damage a hit. You forgot the snipes aren't cancellable anymore. So it's much worse then when it was really bad. Sure lets rush 26 Lukers or 22 Brood Lords into 15 Ghost and get Sniped without any support, you can only fix balance assuming both side playing at the same level, not some stupidity level of play.
Only stupidity I gathered from that is the assumption that there is any type of sustainable cost effective trade vs an entrenched Terran.
There is a reason Serral never makes Brood lords until the map mines out. Once you commit you're basically full on attacking to erase your opponents base and production. Drones are finally no longer relevant at that point and army supplies get a glimpse of being more even once that switch is flipped.
A 2 supply ghost skews this interaction greatly, since it's very likely there is going to be at least 10+ more supply of the most impactful unit in the game. Not to mention it's a version with more range, damage, and an uninterruptible spell cast.
It's quite frankly a bigger issue than CC's randomly costing 25% fewer minerals.
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On July 18 2026 15:07 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2026 13:25 tigera6 wrote:On July 18 2026 06:52 Herringbone wrote:On July 18 2026 02:08 BlackEyed wrote:
I'm so sick of Ghosts. I seriously can't stand watching this pew pew anymore, and they just keep buffing them over and over again.
Just a quick reminder: 15 Ghosts take up 30 supply. Each Ghost can fire two Snipes for 170 damage each, that's 340 damage per Ghost. 340 × 15 = 5,100 damage from just 30 army supply.
That's enough to kill 26 Lurkers (80 supply) or 22 Brood Lords (90 supply).
And on top of that, Ghosts hard-counter every spellcaster. Even when they're out of energy, they're still nothing like an Infestor that's completely useless without energy. They're Ghosts - they'll just keep shooting you from 7 range for 15 damage a hit. You forgot the snipes aren't cancellable anymore. So it's much worse then when it was really bad. Sure lets rush 26 Lukers or 22 Brood Lords into 15 Ghost and get Sniped without any support, you can only fix balance assuming both side playing at the same level, not some stupidity level of play. Only stupidity I gathered from that is the assumption that there is any type of sustainable cost effective trade vs an entrenched Terran. There is a reason Serral never makes Brood lords until the map mines out. Once you commit you're basically full on attacking to erase your opponents base and production. Drones are finally no longer relevant at that point and army supplies get a glimpse of being more even once that switch is flipped. A 2 supply ghost skews this interaction greatly, since it's very likely there is going to be at least 10+ more supply of the most impactful unit in the game. Not to mention it's a version with more range, damage, and an uninterruptible spell cast. It's quite frankly a bigger issue than CC's randomly costing 25% fewer minerals.
Zerg advantage is speed and flexibility, while out-mining your opponent by 1.5-2 bases, its about swaming, distracting and attacking the weak point of the Terran production and economy, any frontal fight to a well-set defense is suicidal, that has been the meta for years but here you still crying about cost effective trade like thats how its supposed to be.
And like I said many times before, if you remove the Ghost power, put it back to something else, but nobody wants to listen to that.
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On July 18 2026 15:18 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2026 15:07 Agh wrote:On July 18 2026 13:25 tigera6 wrote:On July 18 2026 06:52 Herringbone wrote:On July 18 2026 02:08 BlackEyed wrote:
I'm so sick of Ghosts. I seriously can't stand watching this pew pew anymore, and they just keep buffing them over and over again.
Just a quick reminder: 15 Ghosts take up 30 supply. Each Ghost can fire two Snipes for 170 damage each, that's 340 damage per Ghost. 340 × 15 = 5,100 damage from just 30 army supply.
That's enough to kill 26 Lurkers (80 supply) or 22 Brood Lords (90 supply).
And on top of that, Ghosts hard-counter every spellcaster. Even when they're out of energy, they're still nothing like an Infestor that's completely useless without energy. They're Ghosts - they'll just keep shooting you from 7 range for 15 damage a hit. You forgot the snipes aren't cancellable anymore. So it's much worse then when it was really bad. Sure lets rush 26 Lukers or 22 Brood Lords into 15 Ghost and get Sniped without any support, you can only fix balance assuming both side playing at the same level, not some stupidity level of play. Only stupidity I gathered from that is the assumption that there is any type of sustainable cost effective trade vs an entrenched Terran. There is a reason Serral never makes Brood lords until the map mines out. Once you commit you're basically full on attacking to erase your opponents base and production. Drones are finally no longer relevant at that point and army supplies get a glimpse of being more even once that switch is flipped. A 2 supply ghost skews this interaction greatly, since it's very likely there is going to be at least 10+ more supply of the most impactful unit in the game. Not to mention it's a version with more range, damage, and an uninterruptible spell cast. It's quite frankly a bigger issue than CC's randomly costing 25% fewer minerals. Zerg advantage is speed and flexibility, while out-mining your opponent by 1.5-2 bases, its about swaming, distracting and attacking the weak point of the Terran production and economy, any frontal fight to a well-set defense is suicidal, that has been the meta for years but here you still crying about cost effective trade like thats how its supposed to be. And like I said many times before, if you remove the Ghost power, put it back to something else, but nobody wants to listen to that.
This isn't happening in a vacuum, of course the degree to which you can trade effectively matters once you enter split-map scenarios. Game 4 at HSC of Serral v Clem illustrates how important this margin is--even entering late-game with a heavy economic and tech deficit, Clem still almost claws out a victory purely off the back of turtling entrenched positions while massing ghosts. Against the most efficient player ever. If ghosts were 2 supply in that game, you can almost guarantee Serral would have lost. If you want ghosts at 2 supply, then uninterruptible snipe needs to be reverted.
Let's face it, at this point balance changes are the equivalent of a child closing their eyes, spinning around as fast as they can, and pointing in a random direction.
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I would be okay with the 300 Minerals CC, but only if they add a cooldown to Mules. Its stupid that Terrans get rewarded for bad macro. Injects and Chrono dont stack, why should Mules?
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On July 18 2026 17:58 Deekay86 wrote:
I would be okay with the 300 Minerals CC, but only if they add a cooldown to Mules. Its stupid that Terrans get rewarded for bad macro. Injects and Chrono dont stack, why should Mules?
like a 4s global cooldown, or something along those lines?
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On July 18 2026 15:07 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2026 13:25 tigera6 wrote:On July 18 2026 06:52 Herringbone wrote:On July 18 2026 02:08 BlackEyed wrote:
I'm so sick of Ghosts. I seriously can't stand watching this pew pew anymore, and they just keep buffing them over and over again.
Just a quick reminder: 15 Ghosts take up 30 supply. Each Ghost can fire two Snipes for 170 damage each, that's 340 damage per Ghost. 340 × 15 = 5,100 damage from just 30 army supply.
That's enough to kill 26 Lurkers (80 supply) or 22 Brood Lords (90 supply).
And on top of that, Ghosts hard-counter every spellcaster. Even when they're out of energy, they're still nothing like an Infestor that's completely useless without energy. They're Ghosts - they'll just keep shooting you from 7 range for 15 damage a hit. You forgot the snipes aren't cancellable anymore. So it's much worse then when it was really bad. Sure lets rush 26 Lukers or 22 Brood Lords into 15 Ghost and get Sniped without any support, you can only fix balance assuming both side playing at the same level, not some stupidity level of play. Only stupidity I gathered from that is the assumption that there is any type of sustainable cost effective trade vs an entrenched Terran. There is a reason Serral never makes Brood lords until the map mines out. Once you commit you're basically full on attacking to erase your opponents base and production. Drones are finally no longer relevant at that point and army supplies get a glimpse of being more even once that switch is flipped. A 2 supply ghost skews this interaction greatly, since it's very likely there is going to be at least 10+ more supply of the most impactful unit in the game. Not to mention it's a version with more range, damage, and an uninterruptible spell cast. It's quite frankly a bigger issue than CC's randomly costing 25% fewer minerals.
It would be idiotic if cost effective trades were sustainable against an entrenched Terran position. The whole point of Terran's power units is to be efficient when set up correctly. Asking for the race with the fastest expansions and the most flexible unit production to also have the option to continuously out-trade the race that's the opposite on those metrics is asinine. Zerg options should be to go around the position, or break it inefficiently once you've secured the economy to do so.
Zerg wins plenty in the late game, but they don't do it by letting the Terran split the map and win in a battle of attrition.
Is rebuffing the ghost to two supply reasonable? No, not really. But it's obvious that the last version was a substantial nerf, and no compensation was offered elsewhere (unless you think the mine buff counts), so something needs to give.
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On July 18 2026 21:46 bela.mervado wrote:
like a 4s global cooldown, or something along those lines?
For however long it takes to accumulate 50 Energy for that CC.
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Is rebuffing the ghost to two supply reasonable? No, not really. But it's obvious that the last version was a substantial nerf, and no compensation was offered elsewhere (unless you think the mine buff counts), so something needs to give.
Admittingly, the only match I watched on this patch in a high-level ZvT was Serral vs. Clem. But it really didn't feel like the patch had any effect on that entire match. Felt more like the old saying of "I tried nothing and it didn't work".
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France13023 Posts
Terran was absurdly bad so a buff was necessary, but why not just revert this very bad 8 worker start idea? 
So we will get infinite hotfixes after hotfixes that just make the game more imbalanced
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On July 18 2026 22:57 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +Is rebuffing the ghost to two supply reasonable? No, not really. But it's obvious that the last version was a substantial nerf, and no compensation was offered elsewhere (unless you think the mine buff counts), so something needs to give. Admittingly, the only match I watched on this patch in a high-level ZvT was Serral vs. Clem. But it really didn't feel like the patch had any effect on that entire match. Felt more like the old saying of "I tried nothing and it didn't work".
Clem's two base play was already an adjustment, though I'm not sure what you expect Terrans to do. All their openings are incrementally worse, the patch didn't enable any new midgame or lategame strategies, and their main lategame tool was nerfed.
Meanwhile Zergs get a dumb and totally unjustified buff to their production at every stage of the game, for reasons.
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On July 18 2026 23:40 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2026 22:57 Balnazza wrote:Is rebuffing the ghost to two supply reasonable? No, not really. But it's obvious that the last version was a substantial nerf, and no compensation was offered elsewhere (unless you think the mine buff counts), so something needs to give. Admittingly, the only match I watched on this patch in a high-level ZvT was Serral vs. Clem. But it really didn't feel like the patch had any effect on that entire match. Felt more like the old saying of "I tried nothing and it didn't work". Clem's two base play was already an adjustment, though I'm not sure what you expect Terrans to do. All their openings are incrementally worse, the patch didn't enable any new midgame or lategame strategies, and their main lategame tool was nerfed. Meanwhile Zergs get a dumb and totally unjustified buff to their production at every stage of the game, for reasons.
Didn't really feel like an adjustment, more like Clem got a bit frustrated that his infinite micro glitch didn't carry him through...but again, that is mostly subjective feeling and stems from just one series.
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On July 18 2026 13:25 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2026 06:52 Herringbone wrote:On July 18 2026 02:08 BlackEyed wrote:
I'm so sick of Ghosts. I seriously can't stand watching this pew pew anymore, and they just keep buffing them over and over again.
Just a quick reminder: 15 Ghosts take up 30 supply. Each Ghost can fire two Snipes for 170 damage each, that's 340 damage per Ghost. 340 × 15 = 5,100 damage from just 30 army supply.
That's enough to kill 26 Lurkers (80 supply) or 22 Brood Lords (90 supply).
And on top of that, Ghosts hard-counter every spellcaster. Even when they're out of energy, they're still nothing like an Infestor that's completely useless without energy. They're Ghosts - they'll just keep shooting you from 7 range for 15 damage a hit. You forgot the snipes aren't cancellable anymore. So it's much worse then when it was really bad. Sure lets rush 26 Lukers or 22 Brood Lords into 15 Ghost and get Sniped without any support, you can only fix balance assuming both side playing at the same level, not some stupidity level of play.
That's really not what he's saying and you know it. But let's say both players are at the same level. What is even the correct army comp for a zerg at the same level to beat mass ghost? If you attempt to answer this question (which you won't you're going to sidestep it) you will see that your answer will not require the zerg to be playing at the same level but at a much higher difficulty.
The fact is- no other unit in the game can be massed to this extreme and not have a hard counter. You can name any other unit and when massed like the ghost is there is a clear desired army comp that deals with them pretty easily. Massing one unit into late game is not supposed to be a viable strategy. And when it's a defensive unit that pairs well with turtling it's bad game design.
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Blizzard finally did it. It only took 28 years, but they've made the Terran Supply Depot about as useful as an 8-track tape player, a VCR clock, a fax machine, and Internet Explorer.
People need to stop whining about the change to the Ghost. There is a very simple counter for the Ghost... more Ghosts.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Oh my god, 300 mineral CC? If they wanted to reduce CC price they could have reduced it by a smaller amount. What a huge jump.
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On July 19 2026 04:57 Blazinghand wrote:
Oh my god, 300 mineral CC? If they wanted to reduce CC price they could have reduced it by a smaller amount. What a huge jump.
yea StarCraft is a game of inches
why the hell is a "Hotfix" changing the cost of a critical structure by miles?
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On July 19 2026 04:57 Blazinghand wrote:
Oh my god, 300 mineral CC? If they wanted to reduce CC price they could have reduced it by a smaller amount. What a huge jump.
Yeah this is crazy, my mind = blown right now lol
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On July 18 2026 11:40 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2026 11:42 BronzeKnee wrote:On July 17 2026 10:48 Die4Ever wrote:On July 17 2026 09:30 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
When a patch makes a bad change, instead of reverting that change (partially or fully or looking at a slightly different alternative), they change something else so design of units just keep straying further and further from what they were supposed to be. THIS! Reverts should almost always be a favored fix instead of piling on additional changes. If you change nothing, nothing will change. I applaud Blizzard for trying to make the game better with changes like this. No one said to stop changing things. Keeping 1 bad change that needs a million other changes is not good. Revert the bad change and try something else. Why did larvae spawn rate have to increase? If it means CC has to be 300 minerals, revert it. If the solution to the problem they created is reverting it, then revert it? If we're going back closer to 6 worker start, then look at reverting the changes that were made when they were balancing the game around 12 worker start. It's clear they're just unfamiliar with the patch history - they thought that an intentional Raven nerf was a "bug" that needed to be fixed.
this is just the queen range issue all over again, or the muta and phoenix buffs from around 2012 - early HOTS.
they should revert, they were just too quick with the initial rebuffing of larva. there's a few band aid solutions that were implemented over time to support 12 worker starts that aren't needed anymore. they should consider reading those patches.
Edit: also go back to 3 supply and buff other teran units lordddd
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Was talking to a friend yesterday and he thinks the game is being balanced around lower levels of play and not for the pros. If we think of it from that perspective, then these balance patches make perfect sense.
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Say what you want about the state of Zerg, a world where only Serral is competitive is not healthy for the game or it's players.
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EPT
