• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 02:18
CET 08:18
KST 16:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview3RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion2Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)15Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 104
StarCraft 2
General
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets When will we find out if there are more tournament SC2 Spotted on the EWC 2026 list?
Tourneys
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 OSC Season 13 World Championship SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Physical Exercise (HIIT) Bef…
TrAiDoS
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1174 users

#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time - Page 39

Forum Index > SC2 General
1727 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 37 38 39 40 41 87 Next
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3450 Posts
May 05 2024 16:03 GMT
#761
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.
Antithesis
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1215 Posts
May 05 2024 16:18 GMT
#762
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.

Yes, and now what?

Both Serral's and Maru's performances in WTL have been far ahead of those of the rest of the players, with Serral having been the best in Summer 2023 and Maru slightly overtaking him in Winter 2023 by but a few maps. And yes, both of them were beaten by Clem at the end of that season, who was on fire at that time (as he is right now), but they both were still by far the best players in the whole league.

The point is that Serral has been consistently delivering in WTL, as he essentially always does in every tournament and league he participates in, to an even greater degree than Maru. But in team leagues, teammates matter, and Maru's teammates happen to have performed better than Serral's.
Mutation complete.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13990 Posts
May 05 2024 16:23 GMT
#763
Generally speaking TL apart from Proleague haven't been taken as seriously and have been far more prone to random upsets and team kills (Sheth, Marinelord etc)

Maru does have an argument for best sc2 proleague player which is probably one of the strongest defenses for him (as it also justifies his lack of results pre-2017, he focused more on Proleague).

The argument that Maru had better teammates is also inarguable. sOs was a premier sniper and Rogue was solid even when he was Savage. Add in Cure, Trap, Creator...Jin Air was nearly always a top tier menance and Maru was just part of that equation.
Chain 1 Arthalion Chain 2 Urgula Chain 3 Mululu Chain 4 Lukias
lokol4890
Profile Joined May 2023
114 Posts
May 05 2024 17:21 GMT
#764
On May 06 2024 01:18 Antithesis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.

Yes, and now what?

Both Serral's and Maru's performances in WTL have been far ahead of those of the rest of the players, with Serral having been the best in Summer 2023 and Maru slightly overtaking him in Winter 2023 by but a few maps.


Interesting way to frame this when in wtl summer serral went 23-1 and maru 21-2. They've both been ahead in wtl of everyone else but funny how when maru edges serral we get the qualifier of "slightly overtaking and just by a few maps" but we don't get the same qualifier when serral edges maru
Antithesis
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1215 Posts
May 05 2024 17:41 GMT
#765
On May 06 2024 02:21 lokol4890 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:18 Antithesis wrote:
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.

Yes, and now what?

Both Serral's and Maru's performances in WTL have been far ahead of those of the rest of the players, with Serral having been the best in Summer 2023 and Maru slightly overtaking him in Winter 2023 by but a few maps.


Interesting way to frame this when in wtl summer serral went 23-1 and maru 21-2. They've both been ahead in wtl of everyone else but funny how when maru edges serral we get the qualifier of "slightly overtaking and just by a few maps" but we don't get the same qualifier when serral edges maru

This is because of the original post I responded to, which you may want to read. But I'll happily spell it out for you: Serral slightly outperformed Maru by just a few maps in WTL Summer 2023.

Changes nothing about the argument.
Mutation complete.
ruhtraeel
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada125 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-05 18:34:22
May 05 2024 18:33 GMT
#766
On May 05 2024 09:27 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2024 04:45 ruhtraeel wrote:
Just going to throw in Nada as the most talented SC progamer ever (even more than Flash, Maru, Serral, etc).

Flash had innate talent, but worked his absolute ass off as well, and we've seen times when his performance is rusty (like right now), leading to early exits out of tournaments like ASL 1.

Nada was at the top of the world, winning the golden mouse (3rd OSL championship), but according to Flash, literally just played Sudden Attack leading up to the finals, and just copied a build he saw once and won.

Even Jaedong says Nada was just different.


You aren't wrong about peak Nada's talent. The huge difference is that Flash has survived every era of the game since he started. Nada tried to come back in the ASL and couldn't.


Flash has always just worked insanely hard. Relying on talent only carries you so far and people are eventually going to catch up, but it's impressive how Nada became so dominant for such a long time based off of talent alone
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7030 Posts
May 06 2024 12:15 GMT
#767
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3450 Posts
May 06 2024 13:18 GMT
#768
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

Well, at this level of GOAT debate, everything is about nitpicking, so yeah. If you saying that both Serral and Maru are miles ahead of the rest of players in team league, I am totally fine with that also.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
May 06 2024 14:09 GMT
#769
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

Yeah it really does strain credulity at times
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13322 Posts
May 06 2024 17:35 GMT
#770
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

I believe that the one time Serral barely lost to Ragnarok in IEM whereas Maru keeps 4-0'ing him in GSL proves that Maru > Serral once and for all. These are absolutely not two different cherry-picked statistics about Ragnarok, nope nope.
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany7030 Posts
May 07 2024 09:50 GMT
#771
On May 07 2024 02:35 Durnuu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

I believe that the one time Serral barely lost to Ragnarok in IEM whereas Maru keeps 4-0'ing him in GSL proves that Maru > Serral once and for all. These are absolutely not two different cherry-picked statistics about Ragnarok, nope nope.


Not only does it prove that Maru > Serral but it also proves Maru is more than 4 times as good as Serral obviously
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12906 Posts
May 07 2024 09:58 GMT
#772
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

I mean you have Serral in your signature and I have Maru, aren't we biased?
WriterMaru
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1908 Posts
May 07 2024 10:31 GMT
#773
On May 07 2024 18:58 Poopi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

I mean you have Serral in your signature and I have Maru, aren't we biased?


That's like saying Liquid Bias is a thing. + Show Spoiler +
or that all tl writers dislike innovation

┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
Ciaus237
Profile Joined July 2015
South Africa286 Posts
May 07 2024 10:45 GMT
#774
On May 06 2024 22:18 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

Well, at this level of GOAT debate, everything is about nitpicking, so yeah. If you saying that both Serral and Maru are miles ahead of the rest of players in team league, I am totally fine with that also.


You have to nitpick like this a lot more if you want to argue for Maru though
The time that we kill keeps us alive
Furaijin
Profile Joined May 2024
5 Posts
May 09 2024 09:12 GMT
#775
this guy has LOST THE PLOT entirely! Holy damn!

Bro the goat; Greatest Of All Time = The MOST SKILLED player of all time; considering Serral has consistently beat Maru and Maru has admitted this in interviews... your whole post is simple WRONG! Confirmed by Maru himself!
If ur gonna put this much effort into something you might wanna look into your biases cuz the problem begins and ends there and this has very little to do with any goats
goldensail
Profile Joined May 2022
132 Posts
May 10 2024 01:39 GMT
#776
On May 09 2024 18:12 Furaijin wrote:
this guy has LOST THE PLOT entirely! Holy damn!

Bro the goat; Greatest Of All Time = The MOST SKILLED player of all time; considering Serral has consistently beat Maru and Maru has admitted this in interviews... your whole post is simple WRONG! Confirmed by Maru himself!
If ur gonna put this much effort into something you might wanna look into your biases cuz the problem begins and ends there and this has very little to do with any goats


Sorry what did Maru admit? I'd like to watch that interview.
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4415 Posts
May 10 2024 01:51 GMT
#777
On May 09 2024 18:12 Furaijin wrote:
this guy has LOST THE PLOT entirely! Holy damn!

Bro the goat; Greatest Of All Time = The MOST SKILLED player of all time; considering Serral has consistently beat Maru and Maru has admitted this in interviews... your whole post is simple WRONG! Confirmed by Maru himself!
If ur gonna put this much effort into something you might wanna look into your biases cuz the problem begins and ends there and this has very little to do with any goats


Most skilled of all time is such a boring goat definition. It changes every month and the end answer will most likely be some kid who's currently playing SC2 and will peak after the scene is truly dead without anyone knowing who he is.
goldensail
Profile Joined May 2022
132 Posts
May 10 2024 02:02 GMT
#778
Btw since many of the latest posts are about "talent" let me add to this topic.

I think most of us can agree that talent is an illusive, subjective concept. For me, it comes down to "Who took this game to new heights? Who did things I've never seen before? Who had the wow factor?".

I won't go into who is "most" talented, or whether Maru is as talented as Flash, but I do think it'll be difficult to argue in good faith that Maru didn't shine in these criteria. Maru showed us since his early years that Terran could be played like Zerg, that it can be an offensive race, that it's possible to mirco units like THAT, that you can claw back against top tier competitors when you're down 60 supply...and he has pretty consistently exceled through the darkest days for Terran.

Does Serral give me that feeling? No. Serral optimizes his builds and is a very balanced player, but he follows a script and he executes very well.

I know if you're a Serral fan you probably find his play the most exciting ever, so I'm merely presenting my case - I'm too old to think I can convince others with different opinion.

I'll leave you with one question: in soccer I've heard people call Messi the artist for his brilliance and Ronaldo the engineer for his efficiency (no offense to Ronaldo, as I'm actually a bigger fan of the latter) - between Maru and Serral, who would be the artist, and who the engineer?
goldensail
Profile Joined May 2022
132 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-10 02:22:05
May 10 2024 02:21 GMT
#779
Also to everyone who thinks Life is the most talented player ever and should've been the GOAT, here's a game between Maru and Life from 2015. I find it interesting not just because of the result, but also the pre-game predictions (I won't spoil it) www.youtube.com
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16022 Posts
May 10 2024 07:42 GMT
#780
On May 09 2024 18:12 Furaijin wrote:
this guy has LOST THE PLOT entirely! Holy damn!

Bro the goat; Greatest Of All Time = The MOST SKILLED player of all time; considering Serral has consistently beat Maru and Maru has admitted this in interviews... your whole post is simple WRONG! Confirmed by Maru himself!
If ur gonna put this much effort into something you might wanna look into your biases cuz the problem begins and ends there and this has very little to do with any goats

He consistently beat Maru from 2022-2024, before that they hardly faced each other.
As you said yourself GOAT is greatest of ALL TIME so Serral being better than Maru for 2 years out of Marus 14 year career doesn't disprove anything.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Prev 1 37 38 39 40 41 87 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
All-Star Invitational
03:00
Day 1
sOs vs ScarlettLIVE!
Classic vs Clem
Reynor vs Maru
WardiTV1320
PiGStarcraft583
IndyStarCraft 240
BRAT_OK 174
3DClanTV 108
CranKy Ducklings92
EnkiAlexander 81
davetesta23
IntoTheiNu 13
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft583
IndyStarCraft 240
BRAT_OK 174
UpATreeSC 76
StarCraft: Brood War
Nal_rA 202
ZergMaN 136
910 108
Shuttle 93
ToSsGirL 87
JulyZerg 70
soO 65
GoRush 43
NotJumperer 20
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm135
League of Legends
JimRising 769
C9.Mang0663
Counter-Strike
Foxcn184
Other Games
summit1g7916
Livibee107
RuFF_SC290
minikerr41
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2277
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 75
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Scarra2239
• Lourlo1014
• Stunt519
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4h 43m
AI Arena Tournament
12h 43m
BSL 21
12h 43m
Mihu vs eOnzErG
Dewalt vs Sziky
Bonyth vs DuGu
XuanXuan vs eOnzErG
Dewalt vs eOnzErG
All-Star Invitational
18h 58m
MMA vs DongRaeGu
Rogue vs Oliveira
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 2h
OSC
1d 4h
BSL 21
1d 12h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs DuGu
Dewalt vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Big Brain Bouts
6 days
Serral vs TBD
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W4
Big Gabe Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.