• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:00
CEST 22:00
KST 05:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)12Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week2Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14
StarCraft 2
General
The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025) Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL
Tourneys
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - WB Finals & LBR3 The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Pro Gamers Cope with Str…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 34766 users

#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time - Page 39

Forum Index > SC2 General
1469 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 37 38 39 40 41 74 Next
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3329 Posts
May 05 2024 16:03 GMT
#761
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.
Antithesis
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1146 Posts
May 05 2024 16:18 GMT
#762
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.

Yes, and now what?

Both Serral's and Maru's performances in WTL have been far ahead of those of the rest of the players, with Serral having been the best in Summer 2023 and Maru slightly overtaking him in Winter 2023 by but a few maps. And yes, both of them were beaten by Clem at the end of that season, who was on fire at that time (as he is right now), but they both were still by far the best players in the whole league.

The point is that Serral has been consistently delivering in WTL, as he essentially always does in every tournament and league he participates in, to an even greater degree than Maru. But in team leagues, teammates matter, and Maru's teammates happen to have performed better than Serral's.
Mutation complete.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13972 Posts
May 05 2024 16:23 GMT
#763
Generally speaking TL apart from Proleague haven't been taken as seriously and have been far more prone to random upsets and team kills (Sheth, Marinelord etc)

Maru does have an argument for best sc2 proleague player which is probably one of the strongest defenses for him (as it also justifies his lack of results pre-2017, he focused more on Proleague).

The argument that Maru had better teammates is also inarguable. sOs was a premier sniper and Rogue was solid even when he was Savage. Add in Cure, Trap, Creator...Jin Air was nearly always a top tier menance and Maru was just part of that equation.
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
lokol4890
Profile Joined May 2023
107 Posts
May 05 2024 17:21 GMT
#764
On May 06 2024 01:18 Antithesis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.

Yes, and now what?

Both Serral's and Maru's performances in WTL have been far ahead of those of the rest of the players, with Serral having been the best in Summer 2023 and Maru slightly overtaking him in Winter 2023 by but a few maps.


Interesting way to frame this when in wtl summer serral went 23-1 and maru 21-2. They've both been ahead in wtl of everyone else but funny how when maru edges serral we get the qualifier of "slightly overtaking and just by a few maps" but we don't get the same qualifier when serral edges maru
Antithesis
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1146 Posts
May 05 2024 17:41 GMT
#765
On May 06 2024 02:21 lokol4890 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:18 Antithesis wrote:
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.

Yes, and now what?

Both Serral's and Maru's performances in WTL have been far ahead of those of the rest of the players, with Serral having been the best in Summer 2023 and Maru slightly overtaking him in Winter 2023 by but a few maps.


Interesting way to frame this when in wtl summer serral went 23-1 and maru 21-2. They've both been ahead in wtl of everyone else but funny how when maru edges serral we get the qualifier of "slightly overtaking and just by a few maps" but we don't get the same qualifier when serral edges maru

This is because of the original post I responded to, which you may want to read. But I'll happily spell it out for you: Serral slightly outperformed Maru by just a few maps in WTL Summer 2023.

Changes nothing about the argument.
Mutation complete.
ruhtraeel
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada118 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-05 18:34:22
May 05 2024 18:33 GMT
#766
On May 05 2024 09:27 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 04 2024 04:45 ruhtraeel wrote:
Just going to throw in Nada as the most talented SC progamer ever (even more than Flash, Maru, Serral, etc).

Flash had innate talent, but worked his absolute ass off as well, and we've seen times when his performance is rusty (like right now), leading to early exits out of tournaments like ASL 1.

Nada was at the top of the world, winning the golden mouse (3rd OSL championship), but according to Flash, literally just played Sudden Attack leading up to the finals, and just copied a build he saw once and won.

Even Jaedong says Nada was just different.


You aren't wrong about peak Nada's talent. The huge difference is that Flash has survived every era of the game since he started. Nada tried to come back in the ASL and couldn't.


Flash has always just worked insanely hard. Relying on talent only carries you so far and people are eventually going to catch up, but it's impressive how Nada became so dominant for such a long time based off of talent alone
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6860 Posts
May 06 2024 12:15 GMT
#767
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3329 Posts
May 06 2024 13:18 GMT
#768
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

Well, at this level of GOAT debate, everything is about nitpicking, so yeah. If you saying that both Serral and Maru are miles ahead of the rest of players in team league, I am totally fine with that also.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland24945 Posts
May 06 2024 14:09 GMT
#769
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

Yeah it really does strain credulity at times
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
May 06 2024 17:35 GMT
#770
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

I believe that the one time Serral barely lost to Ragnarok in IEM whereas Maru keeps 4-0'ing him in GSL proves that Maru > Serral once and for all. These are absolutely not two different cherry-picked statistics about Ragnarok, nope nope.
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6860 Posts
May 07 2024 09:50 GMT
#771
On May 07 2024 02:35 Durnuu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

I believe that the one time Serral barely lost to Ragnarok in IEM whereas Maru keeps 4-0'ing him in GSL proves that Maru > Serral once and for all. These are absolutely not two different cherry-picked statistics about Ragnarok, nope nope.


Not only does it prove that Maru > Serral but it also proves Maru is more than 4 times as good as Serral obviously
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12771 Posts
May 07 2024 09:58 GMT
#772
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

I mean you have Serral in your signature and I have Maru, aren't we biased?
WriterMaru
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1840 Posts
May 07 2024 10:31 GMT
#773
On May 07 2024 18:58 Poopi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

I mean you have Serral in your signature and I have Maru, aren't we biased?


That's like saying Liquid Bias is a thing. + Show Spoiler +
or that all tl writers dislike innovation

┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
Ciaus237
Profile Joined July 2015
South Africa276 Posts
May 07 2024 10:45 GMT
#774
On May 06 2024 22:18 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2024 21:15 Harris1st wrote:
On May 06 2024 01:03 tigera6 wrote:
On May 06 2024 00:22 Antithesis wrote:
On May 05 2024 22:57 swarminfestor wrote:
One thing to ponder, did Serral has ever brought his team to win official pro-league tournament? (Not something like one day team event) Basilisk has participated WTL tournament three times so far with heavily favorite to win, but cannot do that under Serral as one of his member. I knew these are also other teammate responsibilities but still why Maru or Rogue can manhandle their team to win the trophy but not Serral?

What is there to ponder?

Serral's performance in WTL, like most of his performances, has been stellar. It was Maru's teammates who simply performed better than Serral's teammates in those leagues, relatively speaking. Trigger, while showing potential, is simply not at the level of an S-tier player, and Reynor's 50/50 statistics have become a literal meme.

For instance, Serral has literally been awared the Regular Season MVP in the Summer 2023 season. Later on in the playoffs, he all-killed the third-best team of WTL Code S, Abydos. On that particular day, he also continued to go on a 9-0 win streak, before losing a single ZvZ series against Solar. In fact, his wins on that day also included a 2-0 over Maru, as so often. If anyone's contribution to the Onsyde victory on the finals day stood out, it was Solar's, not Maru's, which is why Solar also got the Playoffs MVP, not Maru.

Besides, while not as prestigious, it is worth noting that Serral single-handedly brought Finland, out of all coutries, to win Nation Wars 2019 against, yes, South Korea in the finals.

Last season Maru record was better than Serral. Serral lost 4 games, 2 that cost his team points (against Wayne and Maru), 2 that covered by his teammates (against Dark and Firefly). And yes his teammate isnt as stable is Maru, although not by a huge margin imo, Serral still didnt "do his job" in those instances. And in the playoff, Serral simply got demoralized by Clem (so did Maru) so they were just equally as "bad" in the playoff.


Sorry but that is some next level desperation argument cherry picking.

Well, at this level of GOAT debate, everything is about nitpicking, so yeah. If you saying that both Serral and Maru are miles ahead of the rest of players in team league, I am totally fine with that also.


You have to nitpick like this a lot more if you want to argue for Maru though
The time that we kill keeps us alive
Furaijin
Profile Joined May 2024
5 Posts
May 09 2024 09:12 GMT
#775
this guy has LOST THE PLOT entirely! Holy damn!

Bro the goat; Greatest Of All Time = The MOST SKILLED player of all time; considering Serral has consistently beat Maru and Maru has admitted this in interviews... your whole post is simple WRONG! Confirmed by Maru himself!
If ur gonna put this much effort into something you might wanna look into your biases cuz the problem begins and ends there and this has very little to do with any goats
goldensail
Profile Joined May 2022
132 Posts
May 10 2024 01:39 GMT
#776
On May 09 2024 18:12 Furaijin wrote:
this guy has LOST THE PLOT entirely! Holy damn!

Bro the goat; Greatest Of All Time = The MOST SKILLED player of all time; considering Serral has consistently beat Maru and Maru has admitted this in interviews... your whole post is simple WRONG! Confirmed by Maru himself!
If ur gonna put this much effort into something you might wanna look into your biases cuz the problem begins and ends there and this has very little to do with any goats


Sorry what did Maru admit? I'd like to watch that interview.
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4396 Posts
May 10 2024 01:51 GMT
#777
On May 09 2024 18:12 Furaijin wrote:
this guy has LOST THE PLOT entirely! Holy damn!

Bro the goat; Greatest Of All Time = The MOST SKILLED player of all time; considering Serral has consistently beat Maru and Maru has admitted this in interviews... your whole post is simple WRONG! Confirmed by Maru himself!
If ur gonna put this much effort into something you might wanna look into your biases cuz the problem begins and ends there and this has very little to do with any goats


Most skilled of all time is such a boring goat definition. It changes every month and the end answer will most likely be some kid who's currently playing SC2 and will peak after the scene is truly dead without anyone knowing who he is.
goldensail
Profile Joined May 2022
132 Posts
May 10 2024 02:02 GMT
#778
Btw since many of the latest posts are about "talent" let me add to this topic.

I think most of us can agree that talent is an illusive, subjective concept. For me, it comes down to "Who took this game to new heights? Who did things I've never seen before? Who had the wow factor?".

I won't go into who is "most" talented, or whether Maru is as talented as Flash, but I do think it'll be difficult to argue in good faith that Maru didn't shine in these criteria. Maru showed us since his early years that Terran could be played like Zerg, that it can be an offensive race, that it's possible to mirco units like THAT, that you can claw back against top tier competitors when you're down 60 supply...and he has pretty consistently exceled through the darkest days for Terran.

Does Serral give me that feeling? No. Serral optimizes his builds and is a very balanced player, but he follows a script and he executes very well.

I know if you're a Serral fan you probably find his play the most exciting ever, so I'm merely presenting my case - I'm too old to think I can convince others with different opinion.

I'll leave you with one question: in soccer I've heard people call Messi the artist for his brilliance and Ronaldo the engineer for his efficiency (no offense to Ronaldo, as I'm actually a bigger fan of the latter) - between Maru and Serral, who would be the artist, and who the engineer?
goldensail
Profile Joined May 2022
132 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-05-10 02:22:05
May 10 2024 02:21 GMT
#779
Also to everyone who thinks Life is the most talented player ever and should've been the GOAT, here's a game between Maru and Life from 2015. I find it interesting not just because of the result, but also the pre-game predictions (I won't spoil it) www.youtube.com
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15914 Posts
May 10 2024 07:42 GMT
#780
On May 09 2024 18:12 Furaijin wrote:
this guy has LOST THE PLOT entirely! Holy damn!

Bro the goat; Greatest Of All Time = The MOST SKILLED player of all time; considering Serral has consistently beat Maru and Maru has admitted this in interviews... your whole post is simple WRONG! Confirmed by Maru himself!
If ur gonna put this much effort into something you might wanna look into your biases cuz the problem begins and ends there and this has very little to do with any goats

He consistently beat Maru from 2022-2024, before that they hardly faced each other.
As you said yourself GOAT is greatest of ALL TIME so Serral being better than Maru for 2 years out of Marus 14 year career doesn't disprove anything.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Prev 1 37 38 39 40 41 74 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: ProLeague
18:00
WB Finals + LB Round 3
Sziky vs JDConan
Cross vs MadiNho
Hawk vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O297
LiquipediaDiscussion
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:45
FSL Team League wk2: CN vs RR
Liquipedia
Road to EWC
14:00
Global Qualifier - Day 1
ByuN vs RyungLIVE!
Lambo vs goblin
CranKy Ducklings182
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 198
Livibee 110
ForJumy 9
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24519
Rain 2489
ZZZero.O 297
Rock 42
Terrorterran 20
IntoTheRainbow 8
ivOry 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever255
Counter-Strike
fl0m4187
summit1g2418
olofmeister1681
sgares257
Skadoodle160
rGuardiaN100
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0454
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor642
Liquid`Hasu256
Other Games
tarik_tv48961
gofns28666
FrodaN3828
Grubby2821
Hui .114
ProTech82
Trikslyr72
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1079
gamesdonequick1006
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 58
• printf 57
• davetesta28
• Adnapsc2 26
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 6
• FirePhoenix5
• Pr0nogo 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2940
• Ler106
Other Games
• imaqtpie1237
Upcoming Events
Circuito Brasileiro de…
1m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
14h 1m
Road to EWC
18h 1m
Lemon vs HeRoMaRinE
Astrea vs GuMiho
goblin vs TBD
Ryung vs TBD
BSL: ProLeague
22h 1m
UltrA vs TBD
Dewalt vs TBD
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
BSL: ProLeague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #3 - GSC
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
NPSL Lushan
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.