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In light of the invasion of Ukraine, IOC (Olympics), FIFA (world cup), UEFA, figure skating, volleyball, badminton, cycling, tennis, F1 have banned Russian teams, athletes, or sponsors. What is ESL/SC2's (or e-sports more broadly) responsibility in the global scene?
If the answer in this case is 'nothing', what happens when China invades Taiwan? We all know Blizzard is a stooge for the CCP, but what about for other games by other companies? Do we just let the progamers compete as if players' lives aren't in danger?
I understand the economic impact of SC2/esports cannot compare to say football, but since e-sports are very international in nature, I feel like the conversation is justified. Thoughts?
Update (thanks @Aesop): CS:GO has banned Russian sponsors/teams but allows individual players to compete non-affiliated.
Update 2: Activision Blizzard suspends sales of games in Russia (following Microsoft suspension)
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No, I don't think they should ban Russian teams/players. I think sc2 organizers should stay out of politics. If there are some stiff regulations that prevents players from competing, then sure, our organizers should oblige and follow their country's rules, but I don't think organizers should go out of their way to make a political statement. They are, of course, completely free to voice their disapproval with the current events, but I think it sets a bad precedent if we start banning players based on what their country is doing.
In regards to China and Taiwan. That is a major big "if" and there's no point in speculating on how we should react at the moment.
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people who are competitive video game players arent the cause of any of this and i wish people would stop being so desperate to punish the regular citizens of a country
your location says united states, and just imagine for one second if people treated americans in that way in order to punish the extremely lengthy list of american war crimes
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I think there is a big difference between sanctioning the Russian national football team vs. random Russian SC2 players. The former represents the nation and the latter are just people who play video games.
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On March 03 2022 14:49 quaristice wrote:
people who are competitive video game players arent the cause of any of this and i wish people would stop being so desperate to punish the regular citizens of a country
your location says united states, and just imagine for one second if people treated americans in that way in order to punish the extremely lengthy list of american war crimes
Judging on how RotterdaM said on Monday that Rattata, YoungYakov or other individual Russian players got insulted because of that (and they have nothing to do with it), might be difficult ...
Only individuals who openly approved of the attack and organizations with plausible/direct links to the govt should get cast aside.
EDIT : adding to what honorablemacroterran is writing below, I won't go as far as attacking the motives for the OP's post, but I certainly wouldn't that Blizzard is a puppet of the government of China, either. The Blitchung has been dealt with, good or bad, with sides being taken, move on.
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Collective punishment is always a bad idea. It seems that people like you just delight in ruining people's lives for no reason.
I think the way you attempted to present this as a leading question is especially unctuous and toxic.
"Oh, I don't know, should we ban all these people from competing? Would that be our responsibility? What about hypothetical?"
So scummy. I think we should ban you.
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Anyone who is receiving government funding (I don't know if this happens at all in Russia) should have to prove that they have stopped accepting it before being allowed to continue imo.
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The whole point behind banning any russians for competing in anything is so they will understand that what their president is doing is unacceptable and the population should do something about it if they want shit to get back to normal
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I think the existing rules cover misbehavior by players quite well already. If there were a reason to ban these individuals you would be able to list specific reasons they deserve to be banned. As it is, you're just trying to weaponize esports and I don't support that at all. If you think banning Russian players from SC2 tournaments would have any effect on bringing the war to a conclusion you are deluded.
First of all, this idea that it will weaken support for the government being targeted by sanctions has been disproven repeatedly. If anything, it is more likely to galvanize support for the government since people are being punished regardless of whether or not they support the government.
Second, there is no reason to believe that the war is being sustained because it is being supported by Starcraft players who haven't said anything about it publicly.
And last but not least, every individual should be held responsible for their own decisions. Collective punishments are a slippery slope indeed, and if we just start punishing people over things for which they hold no responsibility, where will this end? China, Syria and North Korea are places where collective punishment is common.
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On March 03 2022 15:43 honorablemacroterran wrote:
I think the existing rules cover misbehavior by players quite well already. If there were a reason to ban these individuals you would be able to list specific reasons they deserve to be banned. As it is, you're just trying to weaponize esports and I don't support that at all. If you think banning Russian players from SC2 tournaments would have any effect on bringing the war to a conclusion you are deluded.
First of all, this idea that it will weaken support for the government being targeted by sanctions has been disproven repeatedly. If anything, it is more likely to galvanize support for the government since people are being punished regardless of whether or not they support the government.
Second, there is no reason to believe that the war is being sustained because it is being supported by Starcraft players who haven't said anything about it publicly.
And last but not least, every individual should be held responsible for their own decisions. Collective punishments are a slippery slope indeed, and if we just start punishing people over things for which they hold no responsibility, where will this end? China, Syria and North Korea are places where collective punishment is common.
I agree that this kind of measure will do nothing to bring the war to an end (of course).
However, I still think that if the Russian government in any way benefits from this the something should be done to cut that off.
That's why I said anyone receiving funds from the Russian government (for which they clearly expect some benefit in return) should stop doing so before taking part in esports tournaments.
The idea then is not to punish Russian esports players but rather cut the government off from the benefits of esports.
Other measures such as no Russian flags on esports casts, stuff like that, might be appropriate too.
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Absolutly. Ban them all. Teams. Players. Sponsors. Increasing the pressure on Russia and its people, thats the goal and every small bit helps.
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On March 03 2022 15:31 Drahkn wrote:
The whole point behind banning any russians for competing in anything is so they will understand that what their president is doing is unacceptable and the population should do something about it if they want shit to get back to normal
This. Life standards will go worse for Russia due to economic sanctions and yes, a lot of the russians, not only the gamers, are not for the invasion. While I'm not sure they can do something about Putin, I'm also for it due to the reasons you said. It's most probably the reason why they did so in football and other sports events.
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Sport should be above conflict and division and not lower itself to the mediocrity of politics.
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Northern Ireland24974 Posts
The various sporting boycotts of South African athletes were over time an effective push that eventually got apartheid out the door. Many thoroughly decent human beings missed out what would have been the crowning accomplishments earned by their hard work.
Collective punishment, yeah it’s unfair on individuals, but if it’s the only option available vs non-punishment, I don’t know. End of the day the sanctions imposed are liable to be pretty fucking rough for every ordinary Russian as it is.
I mean I’m sure there are many, many more but can’t think of the top of my head. What about eSport figures within the Ukraine? I never thought when I followed White-Ra on Twitter that Id be seeing him posting pictures of the buildings destroyed in his hometown.
It may yet be taken out of eSports organisers’ hands anyway, if nations enact travel/visa restrictions against Russians.
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Northern Ireland24974 Posts
On March 03 2022 17:09 iFU.pauline wrote:
Sport should be above conflict and division and not lower itself to the mediocrity of politics.
Have you followed any sport for the last, 90+ years?
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On March 03 2022 17:17 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2022 17:09 iFU.pauline wrote:
Sport should be above conflict and division and not lower itself to the mediocrity of politics. Have you followed any sport for the last, 90+ years?
What kind of question is that. You disagree, fine, then prove your point instead. My belief is that sport should not get involved in politics, you have a problem with that?
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Was USA banned from sports when they invaded Iraq and killed 1+ million innocent civilians, including women and children? No? Then Russia also shouldn't be. Either be consistent and ban all countries for their atrocities or keep politics out of sports.
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Austin10831 Posts
If sports, and athletes, can be deeply affected by politics, why should they not have the reflexive power to change politics?
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I don't see much of a point in banning the common, everyday russians from the internet and/or sporting events.
If anything, russian diplomats should be expunged from every civilized country and these countries should likewise close their embassies in Russia. Make sure the oligarchs in power in Russia can't enter any other country via private planes/boats/cars and freeze any assets they have overseas.
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EPT
