Should esports ban Russian teams/players? - Page 8

On March 07 2022 04:51 honorablemacroterran wrote:


When Russia says they feel they are existentially threatened and the EU and Washington establishments just repeatedly ignore it and start talking about openly overthrowing their government, I start getting worried that they will feel threatened enough to use the largest nuclear arsenal on the planet.

On March 06 2022 22:13 WombaT wrote:

Does nobody bat an eye?

The momentum on this is such that Russia is getting the sanction hammer.

I’m as impressed by the actions of states and indeed corporations and individuals on this issue as much as I’m disappointed in the lack of meaningful blowback for an Iraq, or for the actions of Saudi Arabia, or Israel, or whoever else.

In the best of worlds this form of pressure is consistently applied and there is less senseless bloodshed and oppression the world over. We are sadly not in the best of worlds, but not in the worst either whereupon no force or pressure is ever exerted to minimise conflict, because it would be inconsistent.

Whatever does impact everyday Russian people is hopefully as short term as possible, and easily reversible come the cessation of hostilities.

One thing that won’t be easily reversible is the freezing or seizing of assets from oligarchs, assets that let’s be real in many cases weren’t exactly obtained ethically, and at times at the expense of the average Russian.

On March 06 2022 22:21 AaronSWAT wrote:

Regarding this statement from the post:
"CHINA and TW, I think you should vote a govement that dare to admit TW is a real country first. Before this its not country, no invation, officially. As Chinese I can live without games, thats OK."

I want to point out that: Taiwan is a country in every way, EXCEPT THAT The Chinese goverment (PRC) forces/ bullies/ threatens every other country to say no. Explaning below. (and anyone can just easily Google/ wiki/ whatever do your research to see the current status of China and Taiwan, and the 20th history regarding these two.)

(A) Taiwan is a country, and its official name is ROC: It has its own goverment, army, territory (which has NEVER been touched/ goverened/ occupied by the goverment or army of the current Chinese goverment, PRC). It has its own currency, its own law. It does not pay tax to China. And, ANY Chinese citizen who wishes to visit Taiwan needs to go through the same Visa application process just as ANY other countries in the world.

(B) The Chinese goverment (PRC) forces/bullies/threatens every other country to say no:
Currently, almost NO countries in the world would SAY that Taiwan is an independent country. Because bascially Chinese goverment (PRC) would just go like this: "We will not trade with you if you don't agree that Taiwan is a part of China." And since almost every country wants a share of the Chinese market (looking at Disney and Blizzard), they wouldn't argue.
For example, if you're some Europeon country, why would you antagonize Chinese goverment and lose the opportunity to trade with China, JUST to support a small island country Taiwan?

So, although there has been ZERO soldier of PRC's army that ever set foot on Taiwan (since the KMT party retreated to Taiwan and continued the ROC goverment in 1949), and PRC has never had ANY countrol over ANY part of Taiwan (ROC)'s current territory, but PRC just keeps claiming that "Taiwan is a part of us and is not an independent country", and "look look, almost all other countries agree (or do not disagree) with me.


Again, anyone can just do some quick research (10mins would be enough) on the current status, and the 20th to 21th century history regarding China and Taiwan, and they'll see what's going on. It's not that complicated.

And yes, I know this thread was about Russia / Ukraine situation, and about if esport / Starcraft has to be involved with politics. But I just need to correct the outright statement.

On March 07 2022 11:28 lestye wrote:

Existentially threatened..... by Ukraine??

I think all the trouble in this case really started in April, 2008, at the nato Summit in Bucharest, where afterward nato issued a statement that said Ukraine and Georgia would become part of nato. The Russians made it unequivocally clear at the time that they viewed this as an existential threat, and they drew a line in the sand. Nevertheless, what has happened with the passage of time is that we have moved forward to include Ukraine in the West to make Ukraine a Western bulwark on Russia’s border. Of course, this includes more than just nato expansion. nato expansion is the heart of the strategy, but it includes E.U. expansion as well, and it includes turning Ukraine into a pro-American liberal democracy, and, from a Russian perspective, this is an existential threat.

On March 07 2022 13:56 lestye wrote:

Err, the coup that totally wasn't because of the unpopular President that was Russian stooge right?

And since when is joining NATO a justification for war? They're a sovereign country. Who they join an alliance with is their prerogative. Ukraine was never an existential threat to Russia.

And nah,I think the only one responsible is the guy who wants to invade Ukraine out an imperialist desire. Especially when this guy has been gesturing he's totally cool with imperialism. And if your neighbor invades and annexes you before....why wouldnt you want to join NATO? This whole NATO situation seems to be the fault of the hostile power.

On March 07 2022 14:05 honorablemacroterran wrote:


That coup happened in 2014. That's also when Russia first attacked Ukraine. This is great power politics. Russia feels the need to do this because of the involvement of the US in Ukraine. Nuclear war cannot be won so there is no point in escalating tensions further.

On March 07 2022 16:05 r00ty wrote:
Russia is not a great power. Economically they are not even in the top 10 and getting behind further each year. The Netherlands will pass them this year after the snactions hit, how is that possible? Their military is a joke, look at it, 95% is 70s and 80s tech. It's just the nukes, otherwise it's a failed state.

On March 07 2022 16:29 honorablemacroterran wrote:


All the more reason there's no reason to back them into a corner where they feel like their survival is threatened.

On March 07 2022 16:55 r00ty wrote:


If Kim Jong Un attacked South Korea, we should just let him take it. Bye Taiwan, it was nice knowing you as a democracy. Maybe we just should give Putin the Baltics and Poland back, i mean he has nukes, nothing we can do. /s

On March 07 2022 10:28 Zealgoon wrote:

That's a lot of words to say "I openly acknowledge that the west had done crimes on the same level as the Russian government with no reprecussions. But let's not dwell on the past; we're still going to punish the Russians for the exact same crap the west got away with".

Even disregarding the (very questionable) moral implications, it's pretty obvious that statements like that are much more likely to push ordinary Russians to a further anti-west stance than it is to help ending the conflict. You're not solving the problem, you're escalating it.

On March 07 2022 17:09 ZeroByte13 wrote:
Those who say
"yes, what USA did in Iraq (and a few other places) was also reprehensible and they completely got away with it BUT we _need_ to start punishing countries with sanctions (that mostly affect common folks) at some point, right?"

Answer this honestly, please.
Do you _really_ believe that next time USA will do something like they did with Iraq again, they will get punished in the same way, with heavy sanctions from entire world?

Because you don't actually believe this, right? You know that most probably this will not happen.

So it's not "yeah, we should have done it to others too and it's our fault we didn't, but from now on we will"
It's "when these countries we don't like do it, let's punish them heavily... when our allied countries do it, let's do nothing".

This is the actual stance of Western countries, even if you really want to believe it's not.
It's not "good vs bad" - it's more of "us vs them". We'll sanction them and won't sanction one of us.