EPTOn July 17 2020 11:05 RPR_Tempest wrote:
and MarineKing had his SC2 career ended over this.
and MarineKing had his SC2 career ended over this.
After playing the fishiest game in the history of SC2.
Betting: Suspicious Activity Detected - Page 4
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
After playing the fishiest game in the history of SC2. | ||
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Fuzer
Finland266 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:00 Charoisaur wrote: And what's different about a fixed game where the player made lots and lots of small mistakes compared to the thousands of legit games where the player made lots and lots of small mistakes? It's pretty easy to spot the difference when player fucks up and when he is trying to make mistakes on purpose that would look normal for normies, if you spend time to find them. As I did here. I mean some of these are (ex. Stalker focusing medivac) equal to football player forgeting how to pass the ball. | ||
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ASeriousMan
5 Posts
On July 17 2020 08:48 Nakajin wrote: I remember someone on reddit talking about Zest games getting voided by Pinnacle a few times, I'll try to see if I can dig it out. Edit: I should add there were no proof or link with it as far as I remember Re-edit: Found the thread but the original poster deleted his post... IIRC the post was mainly about Zest - Ptitdrogo first series at StayAtHomestory Cup 2 which ended up 3-0 for Drogo. I spent some time looking for the games, cannot find them casted anywhere on Twitch or Youtube, and the files themselves are not supported anymore by the SC2 replay engine... If someone gets a link or remember watching them it'd be quite interesting I believe ! | ||
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1gragequit
31 Posts
On July 17 2020 23:17 stilt wrote: The MKP vs byul's case and other weird stuffs like this weren't voided before right ? It sounds quiet fishy, I think time to time some players resort to these usages just because sometimes, it might be hard to decline easy money. - MKP vs Byul (Proleague) was void and because it was such an unrealistic throw it also gained additional attention (e.g. some pros calling it out as obvious match-fixing). I think this is the most notorious case of 'no proof but looks extremely fishy'. - Byul vs Terror (Proleague) was void as a lot of money was on Terror to win BUT Byul won. This is important to note as it bucks the trend of void bet --> very suspicious loss. - Innovation vs. Super in GSL - 1st map had extreme betting that Inno went on to lose (but won series 2-1). - San vs Dark (Proleague) - Soulkey vs Creator I've bolded the names of the alleged match-fixer as I think it is very important to distinguish who the alleged match-fixer is, and who is simply the unlucky opponent. I'm not going to throw accusations around - of course this is all alleged and unproven but I strongly believe there are some names above that got extremely lucky to escape justice. I would recommend reading the liquipedia page for an objective look at the 2015 scandal:  2015 Match-Fixing ScandalEdit to add: IMO, analysing the match in question is a waste of time: 1) Zest CAN play very poorly. He's a very on/off player. 2) Hindsight/confirmation bias makes any objective observation impossible. 3) It relies too much on opinion. However, the void bets...this is done for a reason. This isn't just one person that took a big punt on soul winning. Their software is way more sophisticated than that and I am sure they limit voiding bets unless absolutely necessary. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:02 Fuzer wrote: It's pretty easy to spot the difference when player fucks up and when he is trying to make mistakes on purpose that would look normal for normies, if you spend time to find them. As I did here. I mean some of these are (ex. Stalker focusing medivac) equal to football player forgeting how to pass the ball. and still I can probably watch a random GSL group and find at least 1 game that did look more like matchfixing (when analyzing the games with confirmation bias) then this game. | ||
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Fuzer
Finland266 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:07 Charoisaur wrote: and still I can probably watch a random GSL group and find at least 1 game that did look more like matchfixing (when analyzing the games with confirmation bias) then this game. So show me one and analyze it and I'll listen. But that doesn't change the fact that what I brought up looks VERY suspicious that you can't rationally explain. I mean its very simple thing, I brought up proof, Pinnacle voided bets (most likely because it had lots of bets, way more than normally) and you say that we can't be objective here? | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:10 Fuzer wrote: So show me one and analyze it and I'll listen. But that doesn't change the fact that what I brought up looks VERY suspicious that you can't rationally explain. I mean its very simple thing, I brought up proof, Pinnacle voided bets (most likely because it had lots of bets, way more than normally) and you say that we can't be objective here? The bets getting voided is somewhat suspicious. Zest losing 0-3 to a player he is favored again is somewhat suspicious. The mistakes he did were not suspicious at all though. I really have to wonder how much sc2 you watch if you think the mistakes Zest did are anything special. | ||
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1gragequit
31 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:05 ASeriousMan wrote: IIRC the post was mainly about Zest - Ptitdrogo first series at StayAtHomestory Cup 2 which ended up 3-0 for Drogo. I spent some time looking for the games, cannot find them casted anywhere on Twitch or Youtube, and the files themselves are not supported anymore by the SC2 replay engine... If someone gets a link or remember watching them it'd be quite interesting I believe ! I'd be really interested if anyone knows of any other voided SC2 matches (other than the Zest ones)? | ||
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Fuzer
Finland266 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:13 Charoisaur wrote: The bets getting voided is somewhat suspicious. Zest losing 0-3 to a player he is favored again is somewhat suspicious. The mistakes he did were not suspicious at all though. I really have to wonder how much sc2 you watch if you think the mistakes Zest did are anything special. I really wonder how much SC2 to you play and how good are you in the game if you don't find these things fishy. This what I write now is really egoistic, but true: I mean the thing is simple: I have played this game more than you have, I'm way better than you are, I see things differently than you do. You don't see the big picture. If you think I'm talking bullshit here, you can go ask any decent player (above master, NA above GM 50) their opinion and ask them to rationally explain what I wrote. You need to understand that mission for match fixers is: They must play good enough and not to make any obvious throws. The way to do is to make many minor mistakes that doesn't look huge. So if you are skillfull enough and look at the VODS and look at the match from Zests eyes, you see him doing lot off rookie mistakes. You must nderstand they are unacceptable for a player of his level. But if you are normie, they don't look like a mistake at all. But if you do these "invisible" mistakes enough, your opponent will get the edge and will be able to close the game off and you lose without suspicion. | ||
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greenturtle23
86 Posts
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Fuzer
Finland266 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:27 greenturtle23 wrote: Are they voiding bets after the match has taken place? If so why would you ever bet with them? Anytime here is more money on the winning side they can cancel due to "suspicious activity". Ok, so lets assume there is tourament. Normal bet amount for a match or map is on this example 50-100, sometimes even more. BUT if suddently there is a match or map with HUGE odds to other sides (on this case I think it was more than 4) and bets on that match / map skyrockets to 1000-4000 range, just for this one. It could be that the odds are wrong on that match, but how odds work is that if enough bets are put on the other side the odds on that bet goes down, so that can't be the case. The most common for this is that the match is fixed. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:27 greenturtle23 wrote: Are they voiding bets after the match has taken place? If so why would you ever bet with them? Anytime here is more money on the winning side they can cancel due to "suspicious activity". Pinnacle never voids bets unwarranted and that is why people bet there in the first place. I hope i have explained this monstrous logical problem. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:25 Fuzer wrote: I mean the thing is simple: I have played this game more than you have, I'm way better than you are, I see things differently than you do. You don't see the big picture. If you think I'm talking bullshit here, you can go ask any decent player (above master, NA above GM 50) their opinion and ask them to rationally explain what I wrote. I don't think we have to compare dick sizes here but I'm master with all 3 races with a 5.4k MMR peak and over 20k games played. Also I have watched every single non-mirror korean offline tournament game since 2013 so I'd say I know a little bit about the game. I have seen players do worse mistakes than Zest did here so many times that this just doesn't raise any concern for me at all (speaking of the games alone - the voided bets are another story) | ||
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Fuzer
Finland266 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:35 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think we have to compare dick sizes here but I'm master with all 3 races with a 5.4k MMR peak and over 20k games played. Also I have watched every single non-mirror korean offline tournament game since 2013 so I'd say I know a little bit about the game. I have seen players do worse mistakes than Zest did here so many times that this just doesn't raise any concern for me at all (speaking of the games alone - the voided bets are another story) Nice peak  Here is mine: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BF3ex_3CEAAfPiO?format=jpg&name=large All you do is you talk and talk and talk but you don't explain these things. Example the game 2 adept scout into hellion harras, looks very normal. | ||
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ytherik
199 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:35 Charoisaur wrote: I don't think we have to compare dick sizes here but I'm master with all 3 races with a 5.4k MMR peak and over 20k games played. Also I have watched every single non-mirror korean offline tournament game since 2013 so I'd say I know a little bit about the game. I have seen players do worse mistakes than Zest did here so many times that this just doesn't raise any concern for me at all (speaking of the games alone - the voided bets are another story) But isn't the point here that those mistakes happened along with the voided bets, against a player Zest should be favored against? Sure the mistakes alone can happen, Zest could be immensly drunk for example. But the voided bets may suggest some people got insider information about Zest being drunk at that point which resulted in suspicious activity. Or match fixing. | ||
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Scarlett`
Canada2386 Posts
also mistakes happen like this all the time Fuzer; especially in small online cups | ||
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Fuzer
Finland266 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:44 Scarlett` wrote: Please don't bet on games (: also mistakes happen like this all the time Fuzer; especially in small online cups Sure they do, I agree with that. But these mistakes + Pinnacle voided bets... I mean its just 1+1 that I would wish to be something else than 2. I mean let me ask you: IF you would have to lose but you had to lose so that you wouldn't get caught, would this be the way you would do it? Small little ones? And even you have to agree some of those are very rookie mistakes taht should never be happening. I mean sure, maybe he was drunk or had hangover... Who knows, maybe someone gave him a pill on bar that made him dizzy and after he bet him to lose. | ||
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:27 greenturtle23 wrote: Are they voiding bets after the match has taken place? If so why would you ever bet with them? Anytime here is more money on the winning side they can cancel due to "suspicious activity". All bets related to the match were voided. On July 18 2020 00:34 Ej_ wrote: Pinnacle never voids bets unwarranted and that is why people bet there in the first place. I hope i have explained this monstrous logical problem. This. It's not like I'm on some sketchy site. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:48 Fuzer wrote: Sure they do, I agree with that. But these mistakes + Pinnacle voided bets... I mean its just 1+1 that I would wish to be something else than 2. I mean let me ask you: IF you would have to lose but you had to lose so that you wouldn't get caught, would this be the way you would do it? Small little ones? And even you have to agree some of those are very rookie mistakes taht should never be happening. I mean sure, maybe he was drunk or had hangover... Who knows, maybe someone gave him a pill on bar that made him dizzy and after he bet him to lose. They're bad mistakes that you wouldn't expect from a player from Zest's caliber, but those do happen. Like if you analyzed (to name just one recent series which did not have suspicious betting activity) TY vs Bly from the Douyu Cup, you could come up with just as many 'rookie mistakes'. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On July 18 2020 00:01 Morbidius wrote: After playing the fishiest game in the history of SC2. The fishiest game must surely be that macsed vs some diamond player game. | ||
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