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On July 02 2020 03:33 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2020 03:17 Artisreal wrote:On July 02 2020 03:04 Timebon3s wrote:On July 02 2020 01:18 Artisreal wrote:
How do we set up the scene to prevent such situations? By hiring only straight white men :D I was barely able to restrain myself from including this satirical line D-: But as has been said multiple times already, I concur that the inclusion of women voices is a good first step. A professionalisation of the tournament organisers, insofar as to prepare an event/ broadcast that not only caters the core, male, young audience, seems also a necessity (Which also helps to maintain said core audience because others feel alienated). Hopefully with the help of female limelight and background professionals. I don't think the idea is being received well by moderation as far as I can tell? Without their support it ain't happening.
For something like this, it would require reaching out via PMs and it probably wouldn't be the moderation team doing it. You'd need to contact one of the administrators or staff members who has both the free time and the will to help organize, and it would help if you have contacts with female organizations to connect them. Mods just keep the forum clean, they don't add new things.
TL is progressive enough that there's a chance they might want to do it, but they're still a business and it's a very risky subject to touch. It's also an incredibly hot topic - TL has generally preferred to wait a to publish takes on controversial issues until they've cooled off and new information has stopped coming in, in the past.
The most mods can really do is let you know if you are allowed to setup a thread on the forums on the topic beforehand. This is the type of thing you're better off asking about via PM or in website feedback, tbh, as it's more of a suggestion and the people who act on those might not be reading this (very long) thread.
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On July 02 2020 05:40 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2020 03:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 02 2020 03:17 Artisreal wrote:On July 02 2020 03:04 Timebon3s wrote:On July 02 2020 01:18 Artisreal wrote:
How do we set up the scene to prevent such situations? By hiring only straight white men :D I was barely able to restrain myself from including this satirical line D-: But as has been said multiple times already, I concur that the inclusion of women voices is a good first step. A professionalisation of the tournament organisers, insofar as to prepare an event/ broadcast that not only caters the core, male, young audience, seems also a necessity (Which also helps to maintain said core audience because others feel alienated). Hopefully with the help of female limelight and background professionals. I don't think the idea is being received well by moderation as far as I can tell? Without their support it ain't happening. For something like this, it would require reaching out via PMs and it probably wouldn't be the moderation team doing it. You'd need to contact one of the administrators or staff members who has both the free time and the will to help organize, and it would help if you have contacts with female organizations to connect them. Mods just keep the forum clean, they don't add new things. TL is progressive enough that there's a chance they might want to do it, but they're still a business and it's a very risky subject to touch. It's also an incredibly hot topic - TL has generally preferred to wait a to publish takes on controversial issues until they've cooled off and new information has stopped coming in, in the past. The most mods can really do is let you know if you are allowed to setup a thread on the forums on the topic beforehand. This is the type of thing you're better off asking about via PM or in website feedback, tbh, as it's more of a suggestion and the people who act on those might not be reading this (very long) thread.
More than enough people expressed they wanted to do something about this community's place in doing better for this not to be on me. We had just circled back into teaching women self-defense and I wanted to point out it's not hard to come up with ways to improve our community, people just have to want to do more than hope it gets better
Moderators are the ones that would have to deal with all the "OMG Gril!" posts that would come with an influx of women gamers and if they aren't willing to do that it's not worth taking it farther was my point.
It is something for feedback if anyone was interested in pursuing it though.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On July 02 2020 05:40 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2020 03:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 02 2020 03:17 Artisreal wrote:On July 02 2020 03:04 Timebon3s wrote:On July 02 2020 01:18 Artisreal wrote:
How do we set up the scene to prevent such situations? By hiring only straight white men :D I was barely able to restrain myself from including this satirical line D-: But as has been said multiple times already, I concur that the inclusion of women voices is a good first step. A professionalisation of the tournament organisers, insofar as to prepare an event/ broadcast that not only caters the core, male, young audience, seems also a necessity (Which also helps to maintain said core audience because others feel alienated). Hopefully with the help of female limelight and background professionals. I don't think the idea is being received well by moderation as far as I can tell? Without their support it ain't happening. For something like this, it would require reaching out via PMs and it probably wouldn't be the moderation team doing it. You'd need to contact one of the administrators or staff members who has both the free time and the will to help organize, and it would help if you have contacts with female organizations to connect them. Mods just keep the forum clean, they don't add new things. TL is progressive enough that there's a chance they might want to do it, but they're still a business and it's a very risky subject to touch. It's also an incredibly hot topic - TL has generally preferred to wait a to publish takes on controversial issues until they've cooled off and new information has stopped coming in, in the past. The most mods can really do is let you know if you are allowed to setup a thread on the forums on the topic beforehand. This is the type of thing you're better off asking about via PM or in website feedback, tbh, as it's more of a suggestion and the people who act on those might not be reading this (very long) thread.
I just want to chime in and say that I am reading every post in this thread, and chances are I'm not the only staff member doing this. TL takes the safety and integrity of everyone seriously, and I know Liquid as an organization wants to do its part in creating the environment (and world at large) that most of us here would want to see and live in. I'm not in a position of absolute authority on this, but I want to believe that the organization as a whole cares more about this than strictly its bottom line. I promise I'll try to make something more out of this.
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Northern Ireland26147 Posts
On July 02 2020 06:19 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2020 05:40 Nevuk wrote:On July 02 2020 03:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 02 2020 03:17 Artisreal wrote:On July 02 2020 03:04 Timebon3s wrote:On July 02 2020 01:18 Artisreal wrote:
How do we set up the scene to prevent such situations? By hiring only straight white men :D I was barely able to restrain myself from including this satirical line D-: But as has been said multiple times already, I concur that the inclusion of women voices is a good first step. A professionalisation of the tournament organisers, insofar as to prepare an event/ broadcast that not only caters the core, male, young audience, seems also a necessity (Which also helps to maintain said core audience because others feel alienated). Hopefully with the help of female limelight and background professionals. I don't think the idea is being received well by moderation as far as I can tell? Without their support it ain't happening. For something like this, it would require reaching out via PMs and it probably wouldn't be the moderation team doing it. You'd need to contact one of the administrators or staff members who has both the free time and the will to help organize, and it would help if you have contacts with female organizations to connect them. Mods just keep the forum clean, they don't add new things. TL is progressive enough that there's a chance they might want to do it, but they're still a business and it's a very risky subject to touch. It's also an incredibly hot topic - TL has generally preferred to wait a to publish takes on controversial issues until they've cooled off and new information has stopped coming in, in the past. The most mods can really do is let you know if you are allowed to setup a thread on the forums on the topic beforehand. This is the type of thing you're better off asking about via PM or in website feedback, tbh, as it's more of a suggestion and the people who act on those might not be reading this (very long) thread. I just want to chime in and say that I am reading every post in this thread, and changes are I'm not the only staff member doing this. TL takes the safety and integrity of everyone seriously, and I know Liquid as an organization wants to do its part in creating the environment (and world at large) that most of us here would want to see and live in. I'm not in a position of absolute authority on this, but I want to believe that the organization as a whole cares more about this than strictly its bottom line. I promise I'll try to make something more out of this.
I had assumed this was the case anyway, but commenting in this fashion is greatly appreciated.
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On July 02 2020 06:19 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2020 05:40 Nevuk wrote:On July 02 2020 03:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 02 2020 03:17 Artisreal wrote:On July 02 2020 03:04 Timebon3s wrote:On July 02 2020 01:18 Artisreal wrote:
How do we set up the scene to prevent such situations? By hiring only straight white men :D I was barely able to restrain myself from including this satirical line D-: But as has been said multiple times already, I concur that the inclusion of women voices is a good first step. A professionalisation of the tournament organisers, insofar as to prepare an event/ broadcast that not only caters the core, male, young audience, seems also a necessity (Which also helps to maintain said core audience because others feel alienated). Hopefully with the help of female limelight and background professionals. I don't think the idea is being received well by moderation as far as I can tell? Without their support it ain't happening. For something like this, it would require reaching out via PMs and it probably wouldn't be the moderation team doing it. You'd need to contact one of the administrators or staff members who has both the free time and the will to help organize, and it would help if you have contacts with female organizations to connect them. Mods just keep the forum clean, they don't add new things. TL is progressive enough that there's a chance they might want to do it, but they're still a business and it's a very risky subject to touch. It's also an incredibly hot topic - TL has generally preferred to wait a to publish takes on controversial issues until they've cooled off and new information has stopped coming in, in the past. The most mods can really do is let you know if you are allowed to setup a thread on the forums on the topic beforehand. This is the type of thing you're better off asking about via PM or in website feedback, tbh, as it's more of a suggestion and the people who act on those might not be reading this (very long) thread. I just want to chime in and say that I am reading every post in this thread, and changes are I'm not the only staff member doing this. TL takes the safety and integrity of everyone seriously, and I know Liquid as an organization wants to do its part in creating the environment (and world at large) that most of us here would want to see and live in. I'm not in a position of absolute authority on this, but I want to believe that the organization as a whole cares more about this than strictly its bottom line. I promise I'll try to make something more out of this.
This is very great to hear and am happy to help (even if that's staying far away from it lol). Don't know if that's encouragement or discouragement from it being a website feedback thread but just hearing this is comforting.
Thanks for the post/info
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Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but "female/s" is seen generally as having negative or dehumanizing features (I don't think anyone here meant it that way) and "woman" or "women" is preferred for a host of reasons I'm only vaguely familiar with.
Here's something (probably not the best) that discusses it as well as some of the international cultural and grammar aspects that could result in this being seen from different frames of reference.
https://www.newyorker.com/culture/comma-queen/female-trouble-the-debate-over-woman-as-an-adjective
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On July 01 2020 20:33 Immaterial wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2020 23:24 serendipitous wrote:On June 30 2020 22:14 ROOTFayth wrote:
arguing against also educating potential victims is kind of the same as saying you shouldn't need to wear a seatbelt, should just educate people not to drunk drive and people to drive safely Women are very well educated and tend to spend their lives watching out for being raped. Women never walk alone at night, never accept drinks from strangers, etc. They already try incredibly hard to avoid sexual assault, lots of women even carry pepper spray or sharp objects on their keychains in places where those are legal. While I think that is generally quite true, it nonetheless doesn’t align with my anecdotal experience at all, as many of my female friends and ex-girlfriends have been absolutely brazen in their naivete about danger and the notion of taking sensible precautions. Maybe that’s just the people I know haha In any case, I think Fayth makes a perfectly reasonable point. A line that is commonly repeated by activists is “don’t tell girls not to [x], teach boys not to rape!” And yet it seems to me that both are necessary for tackling this horrific problem — men should be taught as much as possible to respect women’s boundaries, but likewise women should be encouraged to take reasonable precautions wherever possible. No one ever says “don’t tell me to lock my doors, tell people not to steal!” and certainly no one would call it victim blaming to encourage someone to wear a seatbelt. I do want to speak briefly about the accusations referenced in the OP and say that like everyone else in this thread I have great admiration for their courage in speaking out. I have noticed that often people in our (nerdier) kinds of circles can act incredibly inappropriately with women, and I’m not quite sure why that is. In the milder cases perhaps a lack of experience and poor social skills, but in the more severe cases it is much harder for me to understand. It is an injustice to the victims, and while I have my reservations about hashtag social movements/social media dogpiles, this is undoubtedly a necessary discussion. In the cases where multiple people are independently attesting to the bad behavior, it seems fairly cut and dry. In the JP case I am reserving final judgement until more information comes out. This is not the same as disbelief, rather I just think it is more fair to wait for further details. If I made a judgment now, I wouldn’t even know precisely what I was believing. It’s always easy to say “yeah, I always knew _____ was a scumbag!” ex post facto. Above all, I hope we can moderate ourselves and become an example of the appropriate way for a community to address situations like this.
It's not just a gaming community problem it is a global problem. No different than racism exists everywhere and yes, you can have a bad boss that can be abusive or make you feel like shit.
For those who cannot moderate themselves if you see something going down bring try to address it. We need people to lead and set good examples. When they see a close nit community protecting each other they won't try shit.
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Northern Ireland26147 Posts
On July 02 2020 06:47 GreenHorizons wrote:Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but "female/s" is seen generally as having negative or dehumanizing features (I don't think anyone here meant it that way) and "woman" or "women" is preferred for a host of reasons I'm only vaguely familiar with. Here's something (probably not the best) that discusses it as well as some of the international cultural and grammar aspects that could result in this being seen from different frames of reference. https://www.newyorker.com/culture/comma-queen/female-trouble-the-debate-over-woman-as-an-adjective
Depends how it’s used. Seen enough incel rhetoric to know what you mean.
My sister is 15, not hugely into games but does join in my Fortnite sessions with my kiddo. Feels weird to call her a woman. Equally it’s infantilising and will annoy some women to be referring to them as ‘girls’ too.
As a catch-all, referring to anyone of that chromosomal arrangement who may be into our shared game, I think it’s appropriate to use in referring to any potential female involvement.
If we’re talking about say, the women who have come forward to make allegations against Rapid, they’re all women and to refer to them as females would be strange, as you’d be using a catch-all term when it’s not necessary.
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On July 02 2020 06:19 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2020 05:40 Nevuk wrote:On July 02 2020 03:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 02 2020 03:17 Artisreal wrote:On July 02 2020 03:04 Timebon3s wrote:On July 02 2020 01:18 Artisreal wrote:
How do we set up the scene to prevent such situations? By hiring only straight white men :D I was barely able to restrain myself from including this satirical line D-: But as has been said multiple times already, I concur that the inclusion of women voices is a good first step. A professionalisation of the tournament organisers, insofar as to prepare an event/ broadcast that not only caters the core, male, young audience, seems also a necessity (Which also helps to maintain said core audience because others feel alienated). Hopefully with the help of female limelight and background professionals. I don't think the idea is being received well by moderation as far as I can tell? Without their support it ain't happening. For something like this, it would require reaching out via PMs and it probably wouldn't be the moderation team doing it. You'd need to contact one of the administrators or staff members who has both the free time and the will to help organize, and it would help if you have contacts with female organizations to connect them. Mods just keep the forum clean, they don't add new things. TL is progressive enough that there's a chance they might want to do it, but they're still a business and it's a very risky subject to touch. It's also an incredibly hot topic - TL has generally preferred to wait a to publish takes on controversial issues until they've cooled off and new information has stopped coming in, in the past. The most mods can really do is let you know if you are allowed to setup a thread on the forums on the topic beforehand. This is the type of thing you're better off asking about via PM or in website feedback, tbh, as it's more of a suggestion and the people who act on those might not be reading this (very long) thread. I just want to chime in and say that I am reading every post in this thread, and chances are I'm not the only staff member doing this. TL takes the safety and integrity of everyone seriously, and I know Liquid as an organization wants to do its part in creating the environment (and world at large) that most of us here would want to see and live in. I'm not in a position of absolute authority on this, but I want to believe that the organization as a whole cares more about this than strictly its bottom line. I promise I'll try to make something more out of this.
Good to hear. I didn't mean to insinuate that TL cares about its bottom line more than its integrity. I'm proud to be somewhat associated with it. More that TL will generally be very careful about the topic, and that can lead to a delay in implementing something, which shouldn't be taken as a sign that TL is ignoring an issue.
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Northern Ireland26147 Posts
On July 02 2020 07:04 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2020 06:19 Zealously wrote:On July 02 2020 05:40 Nevuk wrote:On July 02 2020 03:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 02 2020 03:17 Artisreal wrote:On July 02 2020 03:04 Timebon3s wrote:On July 02 2020 01:18 Artisreal wrote:
How do we set up the scene to prevent such situations? By hiring only straight white men :D I was barely able to restrain myself from including this satirical line D-: But as has been said multiple times already, I concur that the inclusion of women voices is a good first step. A professionalisation of the tournament organisers, insofar as to prepare an event/ broadcast that not only caters the core, male, young audience, seems also a necessity (Which also helps to maintain said core audience because others feel alienated). Hopefully with the help of female limelight and background professionals. I don't think the idea is being received well by moderation as far as I can tell? Without their support it ain't happening. For something like this, it would require reaching out via PMs and it probably wouldn't be the moderation team doing it. You'd need to contact one of the administrators or staff members who has both the free time and the will to help organize, and it would help if you have contacts with female organizations to connect them. Mods just keep the forum clean, they don't add new things. TL is progressive enough that there's a chance they might want to do it, but they're still a business and it's a very risky subject to touch. It's also an incredibly hot topic - TL has generally preferred to wait a to publish takes on controversial issues until they've cooled off and new information has stopped coming in, in the past. The most mods can really do is let you know if you are allowed to setup a thread on the forums on the topic beforehand. This is the type of thing you're better off asking about via PM or in website feedback, tbh, as it's more of a suggestion and the people who act on those might not be reading this (very long) thread. I just want to chime in and say that I am reading every post in this thread, and chances are I'm not the only staff member doing this. TL takes the safety and integrity of everyone seriously, and I know Liquid as an organization wants to do its part in creating the environment (and world at large) that most of us here would want to see and live in. I'm not in a position of absolute authority on this, but I want to believe that the organization as a whole cares more about this than strictly its bottom line. I promise I'll try to make something more out of this. Good to hear. I didn't mean to insinuate that TL cares about its bottom line more than its integrity. I'm proud to be somewhat associated with it. More that TL will generally be very careful about the topic, and that can lead to a delay in implementing something, which shouldn't be taken as a sign that TL is ignoring an issue.
TL generally does things right, they don’t just jump with the flavour of the week cause, neither do they shirk addressing things. Even a moderation standard that prevents idiotic hateful shit being spewed is a marked contrast to other spaces.
Likewise proud to be a part of this community, I do apologise for 13k posts of most drivel but it’s a pleasure logging in every day.
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On July 02 2020 06:57 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2020 06:47 GreenHorizons wrote:Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but "female/s" is seen generally as having negative or dehumanizing features (I don't think anyone here meant it that way) and "woman" or "women" is preferred for a host of reasons I'm only vaguely familiar with. Here's something (probably not the best) that discusses it as well as some of the international cultural and grammar aspects that could result in this being seen from different frames of reference. https://www.newyorker.com/culture/comma-queen/female-trouble-the-debate-over-woman-as-an-adjective Depends how it’s used. Seen enough incel rhetoric to know what you mean. My sister is 15, not hugely into games but does join in my Fortnite sessions with my kiddo. Feels weird to call her a woman. Equally it’s infantilising and will annoy some women to be referring to them as ‘girls’ too. As a catch-all, referring to anyone of that chromosomal arrangement who may be into our shared game, I think it’s appropriate to use in referring to any potential female involvement. If we’re talking about say, the women who have come forward to make allegations against Rapid, they’re all women and to refer to them as females would be strange, as you’d be using a catch-all term when it’s not necessary.
It's a bit more complicated (or simple depending on one's perspective) than that. I'm hesitant to even offer any reading for fear of speaking out of turn or pointing people astray. But something like this might help
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/
Trans women often identify as trans women but I've personally never heard anyone identify as "trans female". So in an effort to be inclusive and cognizant of this I'm under the impression unless expressly talking about females in the medically biological sense (almost always unnecessary except in a clinical context) we should try to use women.
The age thing I can't really help on other than I defer to "young women" like "young men" when I can't help using gendered language/am not thinking about it.
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Northern Ireland26147 Posts
On July 02 2020 07:13 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2020 06:57 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 02 2020 06:47 GreenHorizons wrote:Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but "female/s" is seen generally as having negative or dehumanizing features (I don't think anyone here meant it that way) and "woman" or "women" is preferred for a host of reasons I'm only vaguely familiar with. Here's something (probably not the best) that discusses it as well as some of the international cultural and grammar aspects that could result in this being seen from different frames of reference. https://www.newyorker.com/culture/comma-queen/female-trouble-the-debate-over-woman-as-an-adjective Depends how it’s used. Seen enough incel rhetoric to know what you mean. My sister is 15, not hugely into games but does join in my Fortnite sessions with my kiddo. Feels weird to call her a woman. Equally it’s infantilising and will annoy some women to be referring to them as ‘girls’ too. As a catch-all, referring to anyone of that chromosomal arrangement who may be into our shared game, I think it’s appropriate to use in referring to any potential female involvement. If we’re talking about say, the women who have come forward to make allegations against Rapid, they’re all women and to refer to them as females would be strange, as you’d be using a catch-all term when it’s not necessary. It's a bit more complicated (or simple depending on one's perspective) than that. I'm hesitant to even offer any reading for fear of speaking out of turn or pointing people astray. But something like this might help https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/stop-using-phony-science-to-justify-transphobia/Trans women often identify as trans women but I've personally never heard anyone identify as "trans female". So in an effort to be inclusive and cognizant of this I'm under the impression unless expressly talking about females in the medically biological sense (almost always unnecessary except in a clinical context) we should try to use women. The age thing I can't really help on other than I defer to "young women" like "young men" when I can't help using gendered language/am not thinking about it.
I would assume that most transitions through various other factors tend to reach culmination in adulthood, so hence the use of trans women as the term there.
I do get where you’re coming from, I feel the term female is fine if we’re talking about the entirety of females in gaming, some of whom will be as close to being born as being a legal adult.
I mean my kiddo is 7 and through his mum and step-dad’s lack of interest gaming together is our thing. I would be concerned with the impact of say, exposure to voice chat to him but I wouldn’t think it accurate to call him a young man either when discussing it and more generically talking about ‘males’ would be more appropriate
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Northern Ireland26147 Posts
I referred to chromosomes in an off-handed manner, which I probably shouldn’t have, was merely to delineate between children and adults who had that commonality.
I’d include any trans people in the scene under my use of the word female (or male if that be the case).
If they present female, they’ll be treated in the same toxic way that anyone who presents female can be in gaming spaces, so there’s no fundamental difference there to me. With the additional shit they’ll get for being trans.
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Northern Ireland26147 Posts
On July 02 2020 07:27 JimmiC wrote:
I dont know exactly what would be the best term to use, but Im happy to use what ever works for everyone. Generally I think in situations like this context matters, so I would hope no girls, ladies or women were offended. But if they were my apologies.
I generally feel awkward discussing what people of another group would/should/could prefer but I'll use term preferred.
Think you’re fine man, you show a fair bit of sensitivity in most things.
Despite claims of crazy SJWs wanting to destroy x y and z, my experience most people are absolutely fine with whatever language you use, provided you change it if someone points out it’s a problem and explains why it’s making them uncomfortable.
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Since TL is also affiliated with the Smash scene, and this type of case is a bit different from the ones that have been shared here so far, I'd like to share this one:
https://twitter.com/puppehssb/status/1278335061243441157?s=21
Reddit thread:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/hjcxdc/cinnipie_had_a_sexual_relationship_with_puppeh/
The kind of responses I've seen on Twitter demonstrate that men and young men are subject to a somewhat different set of burdens in this kind of situation, and that we need to look out for them too (TL;DR someone on Twitter said "You got laid when you were 14? You're lucky bro.").
EDIT: Here's an example I found:
+ Show Spoiler +
EDIT 2: One more, just for good measure:
+ Show Spoiler +
EDIT 3: TL;DR: 14 year old Smash player engaged in sexual acts with a 24 year old prominent female member of the same community. This happened years ago, he exposed it now.
EDIT 4: I know that you guys just discussed the usage of "female" vs. "woman/women" but I can't figure out a better adjective for "member of the same community."
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Looking at text on a screen you don't have most of the cues you would be interpreting to see if the person wasn't reacting well to you referring to them with "female" or "girl" or "woman" or "man" or "boy" or whatever. Visual cues in their body language and facial expressions especially. So go with what you think respects their human dignity and if they object and aren't being totally unreasonable then adjust your language. And as for if someone is being totally unreasonable, it's like obscenity and Justice Potter Stewart: you'll know it when you see it.
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On July 02 2020 11:13 Jealous wrote:Since TL is also affiliated with the Smash scene, and this type of case is a bit different from the ones that have been shared here so far, I'd like to share this one: https://twitter.com/puppehssb/status/1278335061243441157?s=21Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/hjcxdc/cinnipie_had_a_sexual_relationship_with_puppeh/The kind of responses I've seen on Twitter demonstrate that men and young men are subject to a somewhat different set of burdens in this kind of situation, and that we need to look out for them too (TL;DR someone on Twitter said "You got laid when you were 14? You're lucky bro."). EDIT: Here's an example I found: + Show Spoiler +EDIT 2: One more, just for good measure: + Show Spoiler +EDIT 3: TL;DR: 14 year old Smash player engaged in sexual acts with a 24 year old prominent female member of the same community. This happened years ago, he exposed it now. EDIT 4: I know that you guys just discussed the usage of "female" vs. "woman/women" but I can't figure out a better adjective for "member of the same community."
The difference is using it as an adjective vs using it as a noun. That is a pretty common thing. Using an adjective as a noun is often problematic. Using the same adjective with a word like "people" is often okay.
blacks vs black people
trans's vs trans people/trans man/trans woman
females vs female people (or women)
To your other at hand, yes, we should also care about sexual harassment of male minors, both by men and by women. There were a bunch of problems with that in korean team houses, as i recall. TLO mentioned stuff like that, too.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/DH6Ij52.png)
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