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If both queen range and baneling nerfs happen, zerg is a dead race. Those 2 units, and vipers, have been carrying zerg for years. Everything else is trash now. After those 2 nerfs, zerg will be unplayable. At even skill level zerg will lose most of the games, and will only be able to win if they are better than their opponent by quite a bit.
Balance team forgot that the +5 baneling buff happened same time as the siege tank damage buff, to make up for it.
Siege tank+ marine 3 base will be super hard to hold after this nerf.
Battlecruisers will also be incredibly strong.
Those changes would be fine if there was some sort of compensations somewhere (BC nerfs,)
Infestors need a low energy spell, or a passive attack ability. Right now, an infestor with 70 energy is 100% useless. 10 infestors with 70 energy each is tons of dead supply and useless.
Right now, all spellcasters have something they can do when low energy, not infestor.
They removed low energy usage spell and added high energy support vs air ability. Infestors are one of the cooler micro dependant zerg unit that can make fights look alot different depending who is controlling them; pushing them off the meta is a bad design decision IMO.
I repeat, Zerg has been super carried by banelings and queens for years, especially at super high level. If those 2 changes happen, zerg will become way weaker than anyone imagine. Everything else sucks for zerg.
What are they going to win with? Roaches and hydras? Its still gonna be banelings..because everything else sucks.
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New oracle buff will make cloaked banshees pretty usuless no? A single oracle can hit multiple revelations for the stalkers/phoenix to kill. No real observer placement needed and for the big investment cloaked banshees are.. I doubt we will see them considiering how popular oracle into phoenix is in pvt atm
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On April 29 2020 08:05 Haku wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2020 06:20 Fango wrote:
Queen -1 range, baneling -5 hp, widow mines invis again. HotS TvZ is back?
Don't think so because Thors delete Mutas (they did not back then) and probably some other changes i don't have in mind right now^^ Would love to have that Matchup back though.
You do realize Thors were nerfed in 4.0 and Mutas are meta in TvZ again right?
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On April 29 2020 08:37 ilax30 wrote:
New oracle buff will make cloaked banshees pretty usuless no? A single oracle can hit multiple revelations for the stalkers/phoenix to kill. No real observer placement needed and for the big investment cloaked banshees are.. I doubt we will see them considiering how popular oracle into phoenix is in pvt atm
Protoss goes Twilight first as the meta build right now. As long as that is true Cloaked Banshees are good.
If Protoss goes Stargate first that has ALWAYS meant that Banshees were countered, this patch doesn't change that dynamic.
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I don't like shield battery overcharge. I am already of the opinion that shield batteries are bad game mechanics. I do appreciate how helpful they are for all ins but they are there as a crutch... so now we are buffing a crutch. I'm curious to see if others think that it will impact pvp at all. Actually, now that I think of it, I bet players are just going to end up cannon rushing more with a shield battery.
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Dominican Republic626 Posts
really love this nerf to Zerg, much needed in deed how is it possible that a Race can win games just by massing lings and banelings absurd if u ask me, now zerg players finally will learn other hotkeys in their keyboard
love the creep spread will be easier to stop as well zerg already have too much vision of everything
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On April 29 2020 08:39 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2020 08:37 ilax30 wrote:
New oracle buff will make cloaked banshees pretty usuless no? A single oracle can hit multiple revelations for the stalkers/phoenix to kill. No real observer placement needed and for the big investment cloaked banshees are.. I doubt we will see them considiering how popular oracle into phoenix is in pvt atm Protoss goes Twilight first as the meta build right now. As long as that is true Cloaked Banshees are good. If Protoss goes Stargate first that has ALWAYS meant that Banshees were countered, this patch doesn't change that dynamic.
Twilight could be the meta. But I still see loads of stargate first v terran just because phoenix are such a safe and effective opening. And normally the 1 oracle would revelate a single banshee. But considering its costs 50 it would give the 2nd banshee some time. Now a single oracle is enough to defend multiple cloaked banshees. So I feel for sure it will change the dynamic. We'll see
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On April 29 2020 08:50 BonitiilloO wrote:
really love this nerf to Zerg, much needed in deed how is it possible that a Race can win games just by massing lings and banelings absurd if u ask me, now zerg players finally will learn other hotkeys in their keyboard
love the creep spread will be easier to stop as well zerg already have too much vision of everything
There should be adjustments made, but all three of these at once seems a bit much. Lately, there's been examples of all kind of TvZ late-game with these maps where Terran keeps expanding and harassing with bio + mine + medivac while going toe-toe with Ultra-Viper. That's fine now, but if it's viable with Zerg reaching the late game in their current position, that same situation is going to be a lot weaker post-patch as they'll arrive in measurably worse shape every game.
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Terran doesn't really need buffs, nerfing queens is not a good idea now that air harassment can be extremely effective and I don't know how to judge the shield battery overcharge.
Blizzard has the right take on the matchups, not sure if the solutions are the right ones on the other hand.
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Banes are still stronger than they were pre 3.8.
Queens are only back to what they had before 3.2 which isnt even a nerf because of range cuts to libs and prism.
Widow mine production buff will need to be reversed. They are now stronger in eco damage than in Hots.
Why are oracles getting a late game nerf!!???
Shield battery change is the new dt blink/speedray - everyone thinks it's going to be super op and then it'll never be seen again. Plus you're forcing protoss to change all their build orders AGAIN, something you aren't asking of other races.
Creep change is very impactful for Terran, useless for protoss.
Vipers have consume. Hts need their damage back, not more range on a neutured feedback.
What a giant disappointment. They are screwing up tvz and providing little impact to pvz.
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On April 29 2020 08:05 Haku wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2020 06:20 Fango wrote:
Queen -1 range, baneling -5 hp, widow mines invis again. HotS TvZ is back?
Don't think so because Thors delete Mutas (they did not back then) and probably some other changes i don't have in mind right now^^ Would love to have that Matchup back though.
Thor damage and splash vs mutas is exactly the same as in HotS.
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I would have preferred a much simpler version of Battery Overcharge:
Nexus Ability: Battery Siphon (2 energy/0 cooldown/0.2s)
Recharges 5 energy on the targeted shield battery. [10 energy energy/25 battery energy/second]
This allows tuning exactly how much of your macro you want to siphon into bolstering your defenses, and can be left on auto-cast like a shield battery-battery of sorts, which gets triggered whenever a shield battery hits 0 energy. Could maybe give a range limitation.
Alternative: Nexus or Cyber-core Research (100/100): Battery Network
Once researched, batteries powered by the same pylon grid will share energy pools. Can be used to network batteries across multiple pylon grids. This allows defensive players to build batteries outside of the range of fire to bolster front-line batteries, and the counter play would involve hitting from a different angle or focusing on depowering the network.
The sacrifice would be the nexus build time, and of course the gas cost. Could be placed on Cyber-core if nexus macro is too expensive to lose.
I don't like battery overcharge for a variety of reasons, biggest one being range limitation + 75 energy being an awful lot when you're normally trying to stay at 50 unused max (why would it cost more than recall or chrono?)
More importantly, why can't this ability just be merged into chrono-boost? It makes sense for a chrono-boosted shield battery (or even photon cannon) to just be souped up for defense at the cost of macro.
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Canada8989 Posts
Oh damn! A brand new patch, thanks guys!
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On April 29 2020 08:52 ilax30 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2020 08:39 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 29 2020 08:37 ilax30 wrote:
New oracle buff will make cloaked banshees pretty usuless no? A single oracle can hit multiple revelations for the stalkers/phoenix to kill. No real observer placement needed and for the big investment cloaked banshees are.. I doubt we will see them considiering how popular oracle into phoenix is in pvt atm Protoss goes Twilight first as the meta build right now. As long as that is true Cloaked Banshees are good. If Protoss goes Stargate first that has ALWAYS meant that Banshees were countered, this patch doesn't change that dynamic. Twilight could be the meta. But I still see loads of stargate first v terran just because phoenix are such a safe and effective opening. And normally the 1 oracle would revelate a single banshee. But considering its costs 50 it would give the 2nd banshee some time. Now a single oracle is enough to defend multiple cloaked banshees. So I feel for sure it will change the dynamic. We'll see
The entire early and midgame is different if Protoss goes for an early Stargate. Drops become less effective, Marine ground pushes become more effective, Thor pushes become a thing.
The point is that, a single change to one tech path doesn't need to massively impact the entire match up for it to be a significant factor.
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I love the widow mine change, they often feel so useless pre drilling claws
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I think Zerg has been so dominant for the last 2 years that something as drastic as this is totally necessary and if it turns out to be too much they can just revert one of the changes in a month or two after a couple big events. As much as I'm not a big fan of balancing by alternating which race is OP I do think Zerg could spend a little time as the weakest race. I also doubt these changes will outright stop Z from winning events too. Serral, Dark, and Rogue are still going to win stuff on this patch. They just aren't going to win literally everything.
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On April 29 2020 08:37 ilax30 wrote:
New oracle buff will make cloaked banshees pretty usuless no? A single oracle can hit multiple revelations for the stalkers/phoenix to kill. No real observer placement needed and for the big investment cloaked banshees are.. I doubt we will see them considiering how popular oracle into phoenix is in pvt atm
But with less duration and longer cooldown, stargate opener into stalkers defending cloaked banshee will be quite a issue if you use only oracle
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On April 29 2020 07:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2020 07:04 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 29 2020 06:58 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Zerg is probably still quite favored in ZvP with these changes, but will also get absolutely slaughtered in ZvT. And the widow mine change just makes TvP more miserable and revolving around Terran ending it early.
Well at least Blizz is talking to us again. I fail to see how after Protoss gets a significant late game buff in the High Templar and the Queen got nerfed which is a significant nerf for the entire game in addition to the Baneling nerf, that Protoss is still complaining. These are the biggest changes I've seen for a single match up in a LONG time. The fact people are saying "it's not enough" without testing them is frankly laughable. I think you underestimate how deep in a hole Protoss is in ZvP. Infested terrans got removed leading people to think skytoss is viable? Oh it turns out zerg can still deal with it very easily. Nydus/Swarmhost looks crushing against Protoss each time we see it (and is mostly untouched by this patch), and yet it doesn't get played that often since ling/bane/ravager can overrun Protoss with less effort currently. I do think the changes to creep tumors/baneling and queens are significant. But also that terran is so much better placed to exploit them currently--to the point that I'm not sure how Blizzard can balance both ZvP and ZvT.
Have you ever tried to deal with skytoss as Zerg easily? It is INSANELY hard to control multiple spellcasters and not get stormed to hell or have archons splash your whole army..serral makes it LOOK easy but it’s VERY difficult, especially for lower level players.
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These changes are really cool and I look forward to seeing stuff like archon drops or banshees in PvZ and TvZ. I also like how they added something for protoss to hold the first terran stim +1 push a lot easier but in turn, made drop play behind it much better. I think this exchange in strengths will play to be very interesting. I'm not quite sure why people dislike the shield battery overcharge thing. I think it could perhaps be cooldown based instead of energy-based but it is not a nerf it is just a new thing protoss players have to use. I can't wait to see most of these changes on the ladder though well done Blizzard 
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