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On November 04 2019 09:58 Kertorak wrote:
Isnt this a spoiler thread and title? Why do we see this. I thought its not allowed. Sorry If I am not so experienced here, just reading sometimes.
So this ought to be a feedback to TL community/moderators, maybe. Oh just respect the anti-spoiler-fans/noobs and their feedback, no qq.
Lol, how long has it been since you have been on this site?
It’s been like 4 years (if not longer) since “spoilers” on the main page were commonplace and the “hide spoilers” option was added.
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It seems to me that Reynor has kind of a Life aura. He finds gaps in the play of players known for perfection and he kind of adapts to the skill displayed in the match. Life and Taeja were such players: they somehow had close matches vs mediocre players and then also managed to beat the best of the best. Judging from their play vs lesser players one wouldn't have thought that they are top 10 GOAT material. This is why I don't think that the argument "his opponents played very bad" is useful.
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Ya'll can continue to debate, praise, and whine.
I AM THE BEST STARCRAFT 2 PLAYER IN THE WORLD
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Reynor deserves some credit at this point, the top 5 PR kind of credit
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I think the finals confirmed two things: 1. Maru without his coaches is significantly a worse player; 2. Ultralisks are useless in ZvZ
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On November 04 2019 12:57 IshinShishi wrote:
Reynor deserves some credit at this point, the top 5 PR kind of credit
Nah he will still get close but no cigar. It would break TL policy to have more than one foreigner on the top 10 PR.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 04 2019 08:55 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2019 08:18 Fango wrote:On November 04 2019 08:10 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 07:59 Nakajin wrote:On November 04 2019 07:57 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 06:18 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is still the best player on the planet. Dark is probably number two though. Reynor is a top 10 player who for some reason is especially good vs Serral. Serral is not the best player in the world. Best players in the world don't lose to a 17 year old greenhorn, BLIZZCON rookie, and player who cannot even get past ro.32 in the GSL Code S, on the biggest stage. Lose to the same player whom Dark utterly dominated. Serral probably wouldve lost to beast mode Classic too. I'd bet on Classic anyway Serral fans have to come to terms with reality. Dark slaughtered the best players in the world en route to the world champion title. Serral is losing big tournaments to soo, innovation, and stats, when Dark just rolls over them with ease. The fact that Dark won Code S (first for zerg in lotv) and super tournament as well, AND had the most GSL points, means that Dark wasnt just on a hot streak either. First seed in the GSL AND Blizzcon. 2019 Dark is god mode. I mean Dark had the best year but didn't have an insane year either. Just a particularly good end of the year including an amazing Blizzcon (in a favorable meta) Maru's 4 GSLs heavily involved proxy and broken raven. Favorable meta? "heavily involved proxy and broken raven" he massed ravens in two games across all four seasons, and only went heavy on the proxies in one of them. Maru had already won two GSLs before the proxy meta, and even won the season directly after it (not proxying in a single game iirc). People really pinning all his starleague wins on one season's meta (and it's not even like the proxies were broken either, PvT floated 50-52% in protoss favour during that time). What lol? Maru was proxying from his WESG win through the first two Code S's. He proxied in Code S S3 through last year's blizzcon too, as we all famously saw as it became his downfall. He was using proxies the entire time. There were more than two games involving the raven.... Show nested quote +On November 04 2019 08:24 Nakajin wrote:
I assume you're just trolling, but it famously wasn't.
Anyway point is, it used to be pretty normal to lose to 17 years old rookie except now we just have a bunch of guys so it doesn't really happen. (Maru, Creator, TaeJa, Parting, Leenock... all these guys were considered top 3 before topping 18)
I thought you brought that GSL up to showcase that Zerg won a code S in LotV, which is why i said it was HotS (I was wrong about that - it was WoL) The difference between Life and Reynor is that Life went on to win the whole thing while Reynor didn't play particularly well the entire blizzcon tournament and then got stomped in the finals. Life was the GOAT or at least a contender, and until proven otherwise, Reynor is nowhere near close. Reynor is not a top 3 player like Maru, Life, Taeja, Parting, etc were
Simply no, please post evidence when you say such things. There are VODs for most of his games...
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After Blizzcon PowerRank please 
#1 Dark
#2 Serral
#3 Classic
#4 Reynor?
#5 Trap?
#6 Rogue?
#7 Maru?
#8 soO?
#9 Stats?
#10 TIME?
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On November 04 2019 16:52 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2019 08:55 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 08:18 Fango wrote:On November 04 2019 08:10 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 07:59 Nakajin wrote:On November 04 2019 07:57 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 06:18 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is still the best player on the planet. Dark is probably number two though. Reynor is a top 10 player who for some reason is especially good vs Serral. Serral is not the best player in the world. Best players in the world don't lose to a 17 year old greenhorn, BLIZZCON rookie, and player who cannot even get past ro.32 in the GSL Code S, on the biggest stage. Lose to the same player whom Dark utterly dominated. Serral probably wouldve lost to beast mode Classic too. I'd bet on Classic anyway Serral fans have to come to terms with reality. Dark slaughtered the best players in the world en route to the world champion title. Serral is losing big tournaments to soo, innovation, and stats, when Dark just rolls over them with ease. The fact that Dark won Code S (first for zerg in lotv) and super tournament as well, AND had the most GSL points, means that Dark wasnt just on a hot streak either. First seed in the GSL AND Blizzcon. 2019 Dark is god mode. I mean Dark had the best year but didn't have an insane year either. Just a particularly good end of the year including an amazing Blizzcon (in a favorable meta) Maru's 4 GSLs heavily involved proxy and broken raven. Favorable meta? "heavily involved proxy and broken raven" he massed ravens in two games across all four seasons, and only went heavy on the proxies in one of them. Maru had already won two GSLs before the proxy meta, and even won the season directly after it (not proxying in a single game iirc). People really pinning all his starleague wins on one season's meta (and it's not even like the proxies were broken either, PvT floated 50-52% in protoss favour during that time). What lol? Maru was proxying from his WESG win through the first two Code S's. He proxied in Code S S3 through last year's blizzcon too, as we all famously saw as it became his downfall. He was using proxies the entire time. There were more than two games involving the raven.... On November 04 2019 08:24 Nakajin wrote:
I assume you're just trolling, but it famously wasn't.
Anyway point is, it used to be pretty normal to lose to 17 years old rookie except now we just have a bunch of guys so it doesn't really happen. (Maru, Creator, TaeJa, Parting, Leenock... all these guys were considered top 3 before topping 18)
I thought you brought that GSL up to showcase that Zerg won a code S in LotV, which is why i said it was HotS (I was wrong about that - it was WoL) The difference between Life and Reynor is that Life went on to win the whole thing while Reynor didn't play particularly well the entire blizzcon tournament and then got stomped in the finals. Life was the GOAT or at least a contender, and until proven otherwise, Reynor is nowhere near close. Reynor is not a top 3 player like Maru, Life, Taeja, Parting, etc were Simply no, please post evidence when you say such things. There are VODs for most of his games...
He is right you know.
It's a general consensus that Maru abused proxy for his 4 GSL
Maru fans boys need to accept that
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 04 2019 20:42 FlyGaho wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2019 16:52 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2019 08:55 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 08:18 Fango wrote:On November 04 2019 08:10 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 07:59 Nakajin wrote:On November 04 2019 07:57 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 06:18 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is still the best player on the planet. Dark is probably number two though. Reynor is a top 10 player who for some reason is especially good vs Serral. Serral is not the best player in the world. Best players in the world don't lose to a 17 year old greenhorn, BLIZZCON rookie, and player who cannot even get past ro.32 in the GSL Code S, on the biggest stage. Lose to the same player whom Dark utterly dominated. Serral probably wouldve lost to beast mode Classic too. I'd bet on Classic anyway Serral fans have to come to terms with reality. Dark slaughtered the best players in the world en route to the world champion title. Serral is losing big tournaments to soo, innovation, and stats, when Dark just rolls over them with ease. The fact that Dark won Code S (first for zerg in lotv) and super tournament as well, AND had the most GSL points, means that Dark wasnt just on a hot streak either. First seed in the GSL AND Blizzcon. 2019 Dark is god mode. I mean Dark had the best year but didn't have an insane year either. Just a particularly good end of the year including an amazing Blizzcon (in a favorable meta) Maru's 4 GSLs heavily involved proxy and broken raven. Favorable meta? "heavily involved proxy and broken raven" he massed ravens in two games across all four seasons, and only went heavy on the proxies in one of them. Maru had already won two GSLs before the proxy meta, and even won the season directly after it (not proxying in a single game iirc). People really pinning all his starleague wins on one season's meta (and it's not even like the proxies were broken either, PvT floated 50-52% in protoss favour during that time). What lol? Maru was proxying from his WESG win through the first two Code S's. He proxied in Code S S3 through last year's blizzcon too, as we all famously saw as it became his downfall. He was using proxies the entire time. There were more than two games involving the raven.... On November 04 2019 08:24 Nakajin wrote:
I assume you're just trolling, but it famously wasn't.
Anyway point is, it used to be pretty normal to lose to 17 years old rookie except now we just have a bunch of guys so it doesn't really happen. (Maru, Creator, TaeJa, Parting, Leenock... all these guys were considered top 3 before topping 18)
I thought you brought that GSL up to showcase that Zerg won a code S in LotV, which is why i said it was HotS (I was wrong about that - it was WoL) The difference between Life and Reynor is that Life went on to win the whole thing while Reynor didn't play particularly well the entire blizzcon tournament and then got stomped in the finals. Life was the GOAT or at least a contender, and until proven otherwise, Reynor is nowhere near close. Reynor is not a top 3 player like Maru, Life, Taeja, Parting, etc were Simply no, please post evidence when you say such things. There are VODs for most of his games... He is right you know. It's a general consensus that Maru abused proxy for his 4 GSL Maru fans boys need to accept that
Then post the proxy games, it shouldn't be that hard since he abused them proxies ... or? 
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Why is there still argument about serral vs dark? What if it was serral vs reynor in the finals instead and reynor won? will there be arguments about “reynor got lucky, if it was dark he would of lost”. If you are truly a GOAT then u should prove it by winning the tournament regardless of which opponents ur placed against and overcome any “bad bracket luck” which is a dumb excuse.
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On November 04 2019 22:04 Obamarauder wrote:
Why is there still argument about serral vs dark? What if it was serral vs reynor in the finals instead and reynor won? will there be arguments about “reynor got lucky, if it was dark he would of lost”. If you are truly a GOAT then u should prove it by winning the tournament regardless of which opponents ur placed against and overcome any “bad bracket luck” which is a dumb excuse.
First of all, the GOAT doesn't have to win every tournament; that title refers to amassing a huge amount of prestigious results throughout a player's career; Serral is still not close to that title, even if is for sure one of the greats of Sc2.
Coming to Serral vs Dark, I don't see people speaking of bad bracket luck; the point is that Serral had the game won, threw terribly hard and Reynor went on to deliver a subpar performance in the finals. Retrospectively, it's almost granted that Serral vs Dark would have been a much more entertaining series, not to mention the fact #1 WCS vs #1 KR would have been a better narrative; Dark himself said he would have liked to face Serral(to further legitimate his claim of being the best in the world; I think Serral would have prevailed, but we will never know).
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On November 04 2019 21:30 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2019 20:42 FlyGaho wrote:On November 04 2019 16:52 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2019 08:55 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 08:18 Fango wrote:On November 04 2019 08:10 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 07:59 Nakajin wrote:On November 04 2019 07:57 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 06:18 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is still the best player on the planet. Dark is probably number two though. Reynor is a top 10 player who for some reason is especially good vs Serral. Serral is not the best player in the world. Best players in the world don't lose to a 17 year old greenhorn, BLIZZCON rookie, and player who cannot even get past ro.32 in the GSL Code S, on the biggest stage. Lose to the same player whom Dark utterly dominated. Serral probably wouldve lost to beast mode Classic too. I'd bet on Classic anyway Serral fans have to come to terms with reality. Dark slaughtered the best players in the world en route to the world champion title. Serral is losing big tournaments to soo, innovation, and stats, when Dark just rolls over them with ease. The fact that Dark won Code S (first for zerg in lotv) and super tournament as well, AND had the most GSL points, means that Dark wasnt just on a hot streak either. First seed in the GSL AND Blizzcon. 2019 Dark is god mode. I mean Dark had the best year but didn't have an insane year either. Just a particularly good end of the year including an amazing Blizzcon (in a favorable meta) Maru's 4 GSLs heavily involved proxy and broken raven. Favorable meta? "heavily involved proxy and broken raven" he massed ravens in two games across all four seasons, and only went heavy on the proxies in one of them. Maru had already won two GSLs before the proxy meta, and even won the season directly after it (not proxying in a single game iirc). People really pinning all his starleague wins on one season's meta (and it's not even like the proxies were broken either, PvT floated 50-52% in protoss favour during that time). What lol? Maru was proxying from his WESG win through the first two Code S's. He proxied in Code S S3 through last year's blizzcon too, as we all famously saw as it became his downfall. He was using proxies the entire time. There were more than two games involving the raven.... On November 04 2019 08:24 Nakajin wrote:
I assume you're just trolling, but it famously wasn't.
Anyway point is, it used to be pretty normal to lose to 17 years old rookie except now we just have a bunch of guys so it doesn't really happen. (Maru, Creator, TaeJa, Parting, Leenock... all these guys were considered top 3 before topping 18)
I thought you brought that GSL up to showcase that Zerg won a code S in LotV, which is why i said it was HotS (I was wrong about that - it was WoL) The difference between Life and Reynor is that Life went on to win the whole thing while Reynor didn't play particularly well the entire blizzcon tournament and then got stomped in the finals. Life was the GOAT or at least a contender, and until proven otherwise, Reynor is nowhere near close. Reynor is not a top 3 player like Maru, Life, Taeja, Parting, etc were Simply no, please post evidence when you say such things. There are VODs for most of his games... He is right you know. It's a general consensus that Maru abused proxy for his 4 GSL Maru fans boys need to accept that Then post the proxy games, it shouldn't be that hard since he abused them proxies ... or?
There is no point in posting them. There is a general consensus we all know about it
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On November 04 2019 05:04 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 07:46 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 07:38 yubo56 wrote:On November 03 2019 07:28 Xain0n wrote:On November 03 2019 07:14 Vindicare605 wrote:
If it had to be a ZvZ final, I'm glad Dark dominated it. He's looked like the strongest player of 2019 even before all of the dumb stuff.
Makes Elazer's win in GSL vs the World all the more hilarious though lol. Dark was constantly good this year but he was far from looking the best; soO, Inno, Classic, Maru, Stats, Serral, Rogue all looked stronger than Dark in 2019. Dark looked unstoppable yesterday and, before, at Super Tournament. I am still convinced he is not the best current player(debatable), but he has had the best accomplishment this year. Your first point: at points maybe the others sho me brighter. Consistently, averaged over the year? I disagree. But I agree, it's hard to declare him unequivocally best since he didn't hit serral. But serrals fault not his. Weird spot like last year. As for best player on average, Serral's retained this spot before yesterday; as for shining brighter, many shone more than Dark this year, at different times. Best player right now? It's possible, but debatable. Most accomplished player of 2019? With Blizzcon, he is. Here we go again - can't resist to disagree Best player on average really probably is Dark this year so far. Let's compare his results with Serral's over the year: Serral in WCS Winter EU: 2nd (after a sloppy round robin group before that) | Dark in GSL S1: semifinal (close defeat vs Classic) -> imo Dark comes out on top here since a Ro8 of GSL is significantly harder than a WCS Ro8 (as we've seen this blizzcon) -> Serral 0:1 Dark Serral in IEM Katowice: Ro8 (close defeat vs soO, who won the tournament but played mediocre in group stages) | Dark in IEM Katowice: Ro4 (losing to weirdly on/off-switching supermode-Stats) -> Hard to give the edge to anyone of the two. Dark technically made it further but Serral's match vs soO easily could've gone the other way around. I consider this a draw. -> Serral 0:1 Dark Serral and Dark in WESG: -> Serral beats Dark in Ro8, goes on to the finals where he barely gets beaten by Innovation -> Serral 1:1 Dark ---------> Dark in GSL ST1: elimination in first round vs an on point Gumiho (who fights his way to the finals) Serral in WCS Spring: Champion | Dark in GSL S2: Champion -> Both are convincing champions. But GSL is still to be valued above WCS. Dark comes out on top. -> Serral 1:2 Dark Serral in WCS Summer: 2nd | Dark in GSL S3: Ro4 -> I stand by my assessment: GSL Ro4 is harder to get to than WCS final. -> Serral 1:3 Dark ---------> Serral in Assembly Summer 2019: Ro4 Even if the roster of Assembly wasn't highest calibre and Serral's tournament path not the most impressive, he still showed dominance until meeting Stats who managed to beat him in a close match. Comparing this to Dark's GSL ST1 performance, Serral clearly comes out on top. -> Serral 2:3 Dark Serral in GSL vs the World: Champion | Dark in GSL vs the World: elimination in the forst round vs an on point Elarzer (who fights his way to the finals) -> Serral 3:3 Dark Serral in WCS Fall: Champion | Dark in GSL ST2: Champion -> both absolutely demolish their brackets. But GSL ST still features far more really tough players and Dark really took the hardest imaginable road (Maru, Stats, soO, TY) -> Serral 3:4 Dark Both at Blizzcon: -> Serral 3:5 DarkOne could argue if the first-round eliminations of Dark aren't tainting his average. But he lost to finalist both times. Also Serral only had one single elimination tournament with potentially high calibre opponents in the first round. Thus he barely ever was in danger to get defeated early in any tournament. Another point of critique would be that perhaps results in tournaments in which they both participated should be valued higher than my assessment that GSL is harder than WCS. Thus one could reward those GSL Ro4>WCS 2nd-occurences with only a half point for Dark each. He still would come on top.
This is a quality post which I suspect most will care to read.
Somebody capable of getting into semi-finals of Code S can probably achieve getting into all the WCS finals.
A Code S champion can win all the WCS, provided that Zerg is not broken. One only needs to watch out for 1 player.
The results of Blizzcon, IEM, WESG, Homestory etc etc backs this up. Only couple (mostly just 1) of circuit players can get past (or get into) ro8.
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Northern Ireland25135 Posts
Poor Dark, the thread of his triumph is mostly about Serral and Maru! Great performance the second half of this year from the guy.
He’s the most aggressive and tricky of the real S tier Zerg players and the current nydus really has suited him and his style a lot. When it’s inevitably nerfed I don’t see him falling off at all, but this meta really suited his strengths, kind of how herO was always a good player but the blink era suited him and his style.
Excited for the next year, I think it’ll be a shootout between Serral and Dark for the top Zerg slot if they’re motivated, should be exciting. I see those two as the two with no particular weaknesses and can play any variant of Zerg, but Serral’s preference is for defensive play and Dark’s more aggressive in temperament.
Rogue and soO are also great players when they’re on point, but they’re not quite as rounded.
Excited to see what Reynor brings, must be a huge lift of a mental barrier to have a decent Blizzcon run, hopefully he brings something great to Katowice. Still quite a way from being better than Serral, but definitely has that potential.
My main hope for this year is that the Ro32/16 calibre GSL players, especially the returning ones really step up their game. They have to, we’re hitting the point where GSL is losing too many top players and the quality is going to drop. Already the Ro32 is clearly not at the standards of the Ro16 but that could creep down further.
Here’s to another year of Starcraft and arguing in LR threads folks!
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On November 04 2019 21:30 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2019 20:42 FlyGaho wrote:On November 04 2019 16:52 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2019 08:55 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 08:18 Fango wrote:On November 04 2019 08:10 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 07:59 Nakajin wrote:On November 04 2019 07:57 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 06:18 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is still the best player on the planet. Dark is probably number two though. Reynor is a top 10 player who for some reason is especially good vs Serral. Serral is not the best player in the world. Best players in the world don't lose to a 17 year old greenhorn, BLIZZCON rookie, and player who cannot even get past ro.32 in the GSL Code S, on the biggest stage. Lose to the same player whom Dark utterly dominated. Serral probably wouldve lost to beast mode Classic too. I'd bet on Classic anyway Serral fans have to come to terms with reality. Dark slaughtered the best players in the world en route to the world champion title. Serral is losing big tournaments to soo, innovation, and stats, when Dark just rolls over them with ease. The fact that Dark won Code S (first for zerg in lotv) and super tournament as well, AND had the most GSL points, means that Dark wasnt just on a hot streak either. First seed in the GSL AND Blizzcon. 2019 Dark is god mode. I mean Dark had the best year but didn't have an insane year either. Just a particularly good end of the year including an amazing Blizzcon (in a favorable meta) Maru's 4 GSLs heavily involved proxy and broken raven. Favorable meta? "heavily involved proxy and broken raven" he massed ravens in two games across all four seasons, and only went heavy on the proxies in one of them. Maru had already won two GSLs before the proxy meta, and even won the season directly after it (not proxying in a single game iirc). People really pinning all his starleague wins on one season's meta (and it's not even like the proxies were broken either, PvT floated 50-52% in protoss favour during that time). What lol? Maru was proxying from his WESG win through the first two Code S's. He proxied in Code S S3 through last year's blizzcon too, as we all famously saw as it became his downfall. He was using proxies the entire time. There were more than two games involving the raven.... On November 04 2019 08:24 Nakajin wrote:
I assume you're just trolling, but it famously wasn't.
Anyway point is, it used to be pretty normal to lose to 17 years old rookie except now we just have a bunch of guys so it doesn't really happen. (Maru, Creator, TaeJa, Parting, Leenock... all these guys were considered top 3 before topping 18)
I thought you brought that GSL up to showcase that Zerg won a code S in LotV, which is why i said it was HotS (I was wrong about that - it was WoL) The difference between Life and Reynor is that Life went on to win the whole thing while Reynor didn't play particularly well the entire blizzcon tournament and then got stomped in the finals. Life was the GOAT or at least a contender, and until proven otherwise, Reynor is nowhere near close. Reynor is not a top 3 player like Maru, Life, Taeja, Parting, etc were Simply no, please post evidence when you say such things. There are VODs for most of his games... He is right you know. It's a general consensus that Maru abused proxy for his 4 GSL Maru fans boys need to accept that Then post the proxy games, it shouldn't be that hard since he abused them proxies ... or?
Easy
Keen vs Maru GSL.
Maru proxy reaper 2 straight game after Keen beat him in a macro game game 1
Proxy vs stats in GSL finals to win
Just too ez
Dont change Maru fan boy dont change
Maru = product of the proxy meta. General Consensus, overrated player with that meta
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Was there anything on WCS 2020 besides Smix's short comment?
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On November 04 2019 23:35 FlyGaho wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2019 21:30 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2019 20:42 FlyGaho wrote:On November 04 2019 16:52 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2019 08:55 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 08:18 Fango wrote:On November 04 2019 08:10 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 07:59 Nakajin wrote:On November 04 2019 07:57 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 06:18 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is still the best player on the planet. Dark is probably number two though. Reynor is a top 10 player who for some reason is especially good vs Serral. Serral is not the best player in the world. Best players in the world don't lose to a 17 year old greenhorn, BLIZZCON rookie, and player who cannot even get past ro.32 in the GSL Code S, on the biggest stage. Lose to the same player whom Dark utterly dominated. Serral probably wouldve lost to beast mode Classic too. I'd bet on Classic anyway Serral fans have to come to terms with reality. Dark slaughtered the best players in the world en route to the world champion title. Serral is losing big tournaments to soo, innovation, and stats, when Dark just rolls over them with ease. The fact that Dark won Code S (first for zerg in lotv) and super tournament as well, AND had the most GSL points, means that Dark wasnt just on a hot streak either. First seed in the GSL AND Blizzcon. 2019 Dark is god mode. I mean Dark had the best year but didn't have an insane year either. Just a particularly good end of the year including an amazing Blizzcon (in a favorable meta) Maru's 4 GSLs heavily involved proxy and broken raven. Favorable meta? "heavily involved proxy and broken raven" he massed ravens in two games across all four seasons, and only went heavy on the proxies in one of them. Maru had already won two GSLs before the proxy meta, and even won the season directly after it (not proxying in a single game iirc). People really pinning all his starleague wins on one season's meta (and it's not even like the proxies were broken either, PvT floated 50-52% in protoss favour during that time). What lol? Maru was proxying from his WESG win through the first two Code S's. He proxied in Code S S3 through last year's blizzcon too, as we all famously saw as it became his downfall. He was using proxies the entire time. There were more than two games involving the raven.... On November 04 2019 08:24 Nakajin wrote:
I assume you're just trolling, but it famously wasn't.
Anyway point is, it used to be pretty normal to lose to 17 years old rookie except now we just have a bunch of guys so it doesn't really happen. (Maru, Creator, TaeJa, Parting, Leenock... all these guys were considered top 3 before topping 18)
I thought you brought that GSL up to showcase that Zerg won a code S in LotV, which is why i said it was HotS (I was wrong about that - it was WoL) The difference between Life and Reynor is that Life went on to win the whole thing while Reynor didn't play particularly well the entire blizzcon tournament and then got stomped in the finals. Life was the GOAT or at least a contender, and until proven otherwise, Reynor is nowhere near close. Reynor is not a top 3 player like Maru, Life, Taeja, Parting, etc were Simply no, please post evidence when you say such things. There are VODs for most of his games... He is right you know. It's a general consensus that Maru abused proxy for his 4 GSL Maru fans boys need to accept that Then post the proxy games, it shouldn't be that hard since he abused them proxies ... or? Easy Keen vs Maru GSL. Maru proxy reaper 2 straight game after Keen beat him in a macro game game 1 Proxy vs stats in GSL finals to win Just too ez Dont change Maru fan boy dont change Maru = product of the proxy meta. General Consensus, overrated player with that meta
Appealing to a fake consensus, now i have seen it all!
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On November 04 2019 22:54 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2019 22:04 Obamarauder wrote:
Why is there still argument about serral vs dark? What if it was serral vs reynor in the finals instead and reynor won? will there be arguments about “reynor got lucky, if it was dark he would of lost”. If you are truly a GOAT then u should prove it by winning the tournament regardless of which opponents ur placed against and overcome any “bad bracket luck” which is a dumb excuse. First of all, the GOAT doesn't have to win every tournament; that title refers to amassing a huge amount of prestigious results throughout a player's career; Serral is still not close to that title, even if is for sure one of the greats of Sc2. Coming to Serral vs Dark, I don't see people speaking of bad bracket luck; the point is that Serral had the game won, threw terribly hard and Reynor went on to deliver a subpar performance in the finals. Retrospectively, it's almost granted that Serral vs Dark would have been a much more entertaining series, not to mention the fact #1 WCS vs #1 KR would have been a better narrative; Dark himself said he would have liked to face Serral(to further legitimate his claim of being the best in the world; I think Serral would have prevailed, but we will never know).
Fact: Serral threw terribly hard
Fan Fiction: Serral vs Dark would have been a much more entertaining series... better narrative nonsense. As if WCS points is equal to KR points.
First of all, the GOAT doesn't have to win every tournament; that title refers to amassing a huge amount of prestigious results throughout a player's career; Serral is still not close to that title, even if is for sure one of the greats of Sc2.
Oh nice, I think we are in agreement this time. I wonder who has amassed a huge amount of prestigious results throughout a player's career?
100% agree, and I'm surprised that the #1 Serral fan says that Serral is not even close.
4 GSL in-a-row I think is second to none, and the hardest to match. That is on top of the only player to have won all the Korean star leagues, OSL, SSL, GSL. Unbelievable record in ProLeague + MVP title and being the Ace player bringing his team Championships. The only player in Starcraft2 to achieve Double Royal Road (SSL and OSL); the only other player to have done this is BoxeR in Broodwar. WESG win. Lots of top 4 finish. TY as rival. The fourth race.
I have to point out however, a championship is exponentially more prestigious result than a semi-finals finish. Or even a second place finish; unless you do it multiple times in Code S.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 04 2019 23:35 FlyGaho wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2019 21:30 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2019 20:42 FlyGaho wrote:On November 04 2019 16:52 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2019 08:55 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 08:18 Fango wrote:On November 04 2019 08:10 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 07:59 Nakajin wrote:On November 04 2019 07:57 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 06:18 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is still the best player on the planet. Dark is probably number two though. Reynor is a top 10 player who for some reason is especially good vs Serral. Serral is not the best player in the world. Best players in the world don't lose to a 17 year old greenhorn, BLIZZCON rookie, and player who cannot even get past ro.32 in the GSL Code S, on the biggest stage. Lose to the same player whom Dark utterly dominated. Serral probably wouldve lost to beast mode Classic too. I'd bet on Classic anyway Serral fans have to come to terms with reality. Dark slaughtered the best players in the world en route to the world champion title. Serral is losing big tournaments to soo, innovation, and stats, when Dark just rolls over them with ease. The fact that Dark won Code S (first for zerg in lotv) and super tournament as well, AND had the most GSL points, means that Dark wasnt just on a hot streak either. First seed in the GSL AND Blizzcon. 2019 Dark is god mode. I mean Dark had the best year but didn't have an insane year either. Just a particularly good end of the year including an amazing Blizzcon (in a favorable meta) Maru's 4 GSLs heavily involved proxy and broken raven. Favorable meta? "heavily involved proxy and broken raven" he massed ravens in two games across all four seasons, and only went heavy on the proxies in one of them. Maru had already won two GSLs before the proxy meta, and even won the season directly after it (not proxying in a single game iirc). People really pinning all his starleague wins on one season's meta (and it's not even like the proxies were broken either, PvT floated 50-52% in protoss favour during that time). What lol? Maru was proxying from his WESG win through the first two Code S's. He proxied in Code S S3 through last year's blizzcon too, as we all famously saw as it became his downfall. He was using proxies the entire time. There were more than two games involving the raven.... On November 04 2019 08:24 Nakajin wrote:
I assume you're just trolling, but it famously wasn't.
Anyway point is, it used to be pretty normal to lose to 17 years old rookie except now we just have a bunch of guys so it doesn't really happen. (Maru, Creator, TaeJa, Parting, Leenock... all these guys were considered top 3 before topping 18)
I thought you brought that GSL up to showcase that Zerg won a code S in LotV, which is why i said it was HotS (I was wrong about that - it was WoL) The difference between Life and Reynor is that Life went on to win the whole thing while Reynor didn't play particularly well the entire blizzcon tournament and then got stomped in the finals. Life was the GOAT or at least a contender, and until proven otherwise, Reynor is nowhere near close. Reynor is not a top 3 player like Maru, Life, Taeja, Parting, etc were Simply no, please post evidence when you say such things. There are VODs for most of his games... He is right you know. It's a general consensus that Maru abused proxy for his 4 GSL Maru fans boys need to accept that Then post the proxy games, it shouldn't be that hard since he abused them proxies ... or? Easy Keen vs Maru GSL. Maru proxy reaper 2 straight game after Keen beat him in a macro game game 1 Proxy vs stats in GSL finals to win Just too ez Dont change Maru fan boy dont change Maru = product of the proxy meta. General Consensus, overrated player with that meta
The issue I was against was that Maru used the proxy meta to win all them titles. This is S1 IIRC. So you proved Maru used few proxy games in S1, how about S2, 3 or S1? 
On November 04 2019 23:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2019 23:35 FlyGaho wrote:On November 04 2019 21:30 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2019 20:42 FlyGaho wrote:On November 04 2019 16:52 deacon.frost wrote:On November 04 2019 08:55 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 08:18 Fango wrote:On November 04 2019 08:10 BerserkSword wrote:On November 04 2019 07:59 Nakajin wrote:On November 04 2019 07:57 BerserkSword wrote:
[quote]
Serral is not the best player in the world.
Best players in the world don't lose to a 17 year old greenhorn, BLIZZCON rookie, and player who cannot even get past ro.32 in the GSL Code S, on the biggest stage. Lose to the same player whom Dark utterly dominated.
Serral probably wouldve lost to beast mode Classic too. I'd bet on Classic anyway
Serral fans have to come to terms with reality. Dark slaughtered the best players in the world en route to the world champion title. Serral is losing big tournaments to soo, innovation, and stats, when Dark just rolls over them with ease. The fact that Dark won Code S (first for zerg in lotv) and super tournament as well, AND had the most GSL points, means that Dark wasnt just on a hot streak either. First seed in the GSL AND Blizzcon. 2019 Dark is god mode.
I mean Dark had the best year but didn't have an insane year either. Just a particularly good end of the year including an amazing Blizzcon (in a favorable meta) Maru's 4 GSLs heavily involved proxy and broken raven. Favorable meta? "heavily involved proxy and broken raven" he massed ravens in two games across all four seasons, and only went heavy on the proxies in one of them. Maru had already won two GSLs before the proxy meta, and even won the season directly after it (not proxying in a single game iirc). People really pinning all his starleague wins on one season's meta (and it's not even like the proxies were broken either, PvT floated 50-52% in protoss favour during that time). What lol? Maru was proxying from his WESG win through the first two Code S's. He proxied in Code S S3 through last year's blizzcon too, as we all famously saw as it became his downfall. He was using proxies the entire time. There were more than two games involving the raven.... On November 04 2019 08:24 Nakajin wrote:
I assume you're just trolling, but it famously wasn't.
Anyway point is, it used to be pretty normal to lose to 17 years old rookie except now we just have a bunch of guys so it doesn't really happen. (Maru, Creator, TaeJa, Parting, Leenock... all these guys were considered top 3 before topping 18)
I thought you brought that GSL up to showcase that Zerg won a code S in LotV, which is why i said it was HotS (I was wrong about that - it was WoL) The difference between Life and Reynor is that Life went on to win the whole thing while Reynor didn't play particularly well the entire blizzcon tournament and then got stomped in the finals. Life was the GOAT or at least a contender, and until proven otherwise, Reynor is nowhere near close. Reynor is not a top 3 player like Maru, Life, Taeja, Parting, etc were Simply no, please post evidence when you say such things. There are VODs for most of his games... He is right you know. It's a general consensus that Maru abused proxy for his 4 GSL Maru fans boys need to accept that Then post the proxy games, it shouldn't be that hard since he abused them proxies ... or? Easy Keen vs Maru GSL. Maru proxy reaper 2 straight game after Keen beat him in a macro game game 1 Proxy vs stats in GSL finals to win Just too ez Dont change Maru fan boy dont change Maru = product of the proxy meta. General Consensus, overrated player with that meta Appealing to a fake consensus, now i have seen it all!
He has to, has nothing else
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