EPTDark wins the 2019 WCS Global Finals - Page 10
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FreeFlyGaho
2 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 05 2019 00:19 ProFalseIdol wrote: Fact: Serral threw terribly hard Fan Fiction: Serral vs Dark would have been a much more entertaining series... better narrative nonsense. As if WCS points is equal to KR points. Oh nice, I think we are in agreement this time. I wonder who has amassed a huge amount of prestigious results throughout a player's career? 100% agree, and I'm surprised that the #1 Serral fan says that Serral is not even close. 4 GSL in-a-row I think is second to none, and the hardest to match. That is on top of the only player to have won all the Korean star leagues, OSL, SSL, GSL. Unbelievable record in ProLeague + MVP title and being the Ace player bringing his team Championships. The only player in Starcraft2 to achieve Double Royal Road (SSL and OSL); the only other player to have done this is BoxeR in Broodwar. WESG win. Lots of top 4 finish. TY as rival. The fourth race. I have to point out however, a championship is exponentially more prestigious result than a semi-finals finish. Or even a second place finish; unless you do it multiple times in Code S. Serral facing Dark is not something I personally wanted to see, I did not care at all for that matchup. I am appropriately answering to someone who asked a question. Just abandon this ridicolously cocky anti-foreigner attitude, it is outdated at best and stupid at worst; fronkshonk's posts are full of contents(unlike yours), we disagree on certain things but there is common ground to discuss on. If you are surprised reading that I don't think that Serral is the GOAT, you were misguided all this time: I never said that he is. I think, however, that he is #5/#7 all time as opposed to some korean elitists who think he barely qualifies for top 20; in any of case, he is not close to the title yet, he misses a couple of top tier tourmaments(BlizzCon was a good chance to come closer). One thing is crystal clear to me, in any of case: Maru definitely is not the GOAT. Too monodimensional and prone to disappointments in weekenders, too reliant on strategies his team feeds him; a mechanical monster and a paragon of the Terran race in dire times, he belongs in the top 5. Being a God in Korea and a mid level pro outside of Asia doesn't really make him the GOAT, he doesn't even have that many Premier titles(despite every single one of them being very heavy and significant). I am amused by that guy calling Maru a patch Terran and a proxy abuser, you guys deeply deserve that; you'll know how it is to see a champion pointlessly delegitimazed over and over again. Maru overused the proxies in the latest Code S seasons in 2018 and died because of that at BlizzCon by the hand of sOs, a fair trade; he won Starleagues before without proxying and won a Code S in 2019 without having to resort to that strategy(maybe not even once, I'm not sure). Edit: I am glad to see people trolling banned with flashlight speed, but I would have loved to see anti-Serral trolls banned just as fast. | ||
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Latr02
United States268 Posts
v Keen - 0/2 proxies v Ragnarok - 0/2 proxies (no ravens) v Keen - 2/2 proxies (won, reapers) v Dear - 0/2 proxies v Classic - 0/2 proxies v Gumiho - 0/2 proxies v sOs - 1/5 proxies (cyclones) v Dark - 0/6 proxies (2 raven games) v Stats - 1/6 proxies (2 rax marine bunker contain) Total: 4/29 proxy games. He also pulled a Maka Factory against Stats (fake proxy) but I don't think that counts. Facts, baby. e: Dear not Deer  | ||
Nakajin
Canada8991 Posts
On November 05 2019 01:55 Latr02 wrote: Not sure if it's even worth but for the sake of it I did a quick check through Maru's GSL S1 2018 run: v Keen - 0/2 proxies v Ragnarok - 0/2 proxies (no ravens) v Keen - 2/2 proxies (won, reapers) v Deer - 0/2 proxies v Classic - 0/2 proxies v Gumiho - 0/2 proxies v sOs - 1/5 proxies (cyclones) v Dark - 0/6 proxies (2 raven games) v Stats - 1/6 proxies (2 rax marine bunker contain) Total: 4/29 proxy games. He also pulled a Maka Factory against Stats (fake proxy) but I don't think that counts. Facts, baby. Hey at least something good came out of that, thanks! | ||
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Latr02
United States268 Posts
Hey at least something good came out of that, thanks! Was going to do S2 but deacon.frost already covered it. Maybe I'll check S1 2019. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27480 Posts
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TheAnarchy
Chile1105 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On November 05 2019 03:00 TheAnarchy wrote: There is a general consensus maru = proxy or raven abuse. Thank god you have cleared this up. | ||
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Quasarrion
60 Posts
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dr_j_i_t_
7 Posts
I've been a zerg fan since WoL, but this Blizz was hard to watch and I found myself rooting for the non-zergs. Quite a turnaround. The nydus play vs Protoss is soul destroying. I went back to a game I remember well as the apotheosis of why I loved zerg – MajOr vs Snute in IEM Katowice 2016. Perhaps I was too much of a Snute fan to be neutral, but their game 3 felt at the time like some sort of divine justice for the zerg. 15 minutes of being battered, losing the main, losing expansions... then zerg mustering an ultimate army seemingly out of nothing and crushing the terran. Looking back at it now, it perhaps was not the game I remembered. I liked zerg because it was defensive, and with best play, could deflect all the harassment and attacks and finally absorb most of the map and win. (It seems that wasn't the case.) That IEM bracket was also zerg-dominated, but it didn't upset my equilibrium because it didn't feel as if the race had an advantage. It looked odd with “freeze” fungals and tankivacs. Hopefully the nydus nerf will return things to normal. (I'm not sure about the infestor.) As things are, it almost feels as if the zerg does not need best play to resist all the hassle and can win with moderate defense. Re: Maru. I mentioned WESG 2017 above. In his run, Maru beat Reynor 3-0, Serral 3-0, and Dark 4-3. He proxied three times, including the last two games from 2-3 down to pull $120 grand out of Dark's pocketbook. But three proxy games out of 13 does not seem excessive. I have a memory of a particularly oppressive proxy game, which I think was on Darkness Sanctuary & I was sure it was Maru vs Dark, but I can't find it now (maybe it was neither player). My memory of it is of an all-in proxy game gone long with the zerg on the cusp of stabilising but never quite. | ||
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DanceSC
United States751 Posts
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ProFalseIdol
70 Posts
On November 05 2019 01:54 Xain0n wrote: Serral facing Dark is not something I personally wanted to see, I did not care at all for that matchup. I am appropriately answering to someone who asked a question. Just abandon this ridicolously cocky anti-foreigner attitude, it is outdated at best and stupid at worst; fronkshonk's posts are full of contents(unlike yours), we disagree on certain things but there is common ground to discuss on. If you are surprised reading that I don't think that Serral is the GOAT, you were misguided all this time: I never said that he is. I think, however, that he is #5/#7 all time as opposed to some korean elitists who think he barely qualifies for top 20; in any of case, he is not close to the title yet, he misses a couple of top tier tourmaments(BlizzCon was a good chance to come closer). One thing is crystal clear to me, in any of case: Maru definitely is not the GOAT. Too monodimensional and prone to disappointments in weekenders, too reliant on strategies his team feeds him; a mechanical monster and a paragon of the Terran race in dire times, he belongs in the top 5. Being a God in Korea and a mid level pro outside of Asia doesn't really make him the GOAT, he doesn't even have that many Premier titles(despite every single one of them being very heavy and significant). I am amused by that guy calling Maru a patch Terran and a proxy abuser, you guys deeply deserve that; you'll know how it is to see a champion pointlessly delegitimazed over and over again. Maru overused the proxies in the latest Code S seasons in 2018 and died because of that at BlizzCon by the hand of sOs, a fair trade; he won Starleagues before without proxying and won a Code S in 2019 without having to resort to that strategy(maybe not even once, I'm not sure). Edit: I am glad to see people trolling banned with flashlight speed, but I would have loved to see anti-Serral trolls banned just as fast. That's because the results says so. All you can come up is "I think Serral would have prevailed" and "but we will never know", and that's because Serral lost. "too reliant on strategies his team feeds him;" wow. quality post. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 05 2019 08:27 ProFalseIdol wrote: That's because the results says so. All you can come up is "I think Serral would have prevailed" and "but we will never know", and that's because Serral lost. "too reliant on strategies his team feeds him;" wow. quality post. Any of my worst post has more quality than your best, no doubt about that. What's your problem? Serral reached the semifinals and lost, so what? Last year there were hundreds of posts about how Serral was lucky not to face korean Terrans and how Maru would have won, I cannot say I think Serral would have been favored over Dark had he not thrown? I keep repeating Dark deservingly won BlizzCon, but you seem not to like that. You like facts and numbers when they support your theory, but when it comes to Serral's streak of victories of matches and tournaments all of a sudden they are worthless because "WCS is clearly inferior". Enjoy these stats, then: Maru, in the last two years(including his outstanding 2018, the best year of his career), played in 12 Premier "weekenders". He won one of those, finished third once, was eliminated three times in the first round and reached ro4 just as many times, reached and didn't go further than the ro8 four times; truly GOAT-like, don't you think? Ah, the WESG he won is the only Premier weekender he won in his whole career(comprising of other six years). Maru is the best player in history when it comes to korean Starleagues but his performance outside of that is poor, unworthy of a GOAT. And before you come out with his record in Proleague, Stats has a better one. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27480 Posts
On November 05 2019 08:27 ProFalseIdol wrote: That's because the results says so. All you can come up is "I think Serral would have prevailed" and "but we will never know", and that's because Serral lost. "too reliant on strategies his team feeds him;" wow. quality post. I don’t see how it’s such a ridiculous proposition. Maru’s still one of the all-time greats of the game but there is a marked difference between his Proleague and Starleague performances and his showing in international weekend tournaments, a difference in form that’s most logically explained that way (although it doesn’t necessarily mean that is the case either, just it makes the most sense) He had another underwhelming Blizzcon overall, although I’m not really sure how to judge it given he ran into Dark so early. I think with another bracket the loss to Time would have been the only blip on an impressive deep run, but alas for Maru he ran into an in-form Dark who crushed him. | ||
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ParksonVN
Australia370 Posts
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
Serral dropped out in the semis but he showed convincing play in the tournament. Dark getting the trophy is not what wanted but of course it is a deserved win. He did not get a chance to play Serra, so Dark was not fully happy. Overall a finals like life: Not all dreams come true, not everybody wins big, but the question is not only where you end up in place, it is also how you got there. Classic got bopped by Dark but what can you do against the eventual champion? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27480 Posts
On November 05 2019 11:14 tskarzyn wrote: Lol at the Maru hate. He swept the best toss player in the tournament 3-0 and lost 3-0 to a #2 Zerg on the most imbalanced map pool we've seen since WoL. Do the Maru haters honestly think Dark is on Maru's level... Yes, Dark has been a consistently top player for years now. Perhaps Maru shades him by a little in achievements but they’re both clearly S class players. | ||
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TheAnarchy
Chile1105 Posts
On November 05 2019 11:14 tskarzyn wrote: Lol at the Maru hate. He swept the best toss player in the tournament 3-0 and lost 3-0 to a #2 Zerg on the most imbalanced map pool we've seen since WoL. Do the Maru haters honestly think Dark is on Maru's level... The real question is Maru really a top tier player?? Because there is a concesus he abused on proxy and raven. So is he on the lvl of dark? I just remember little Maru getting recked by life and soulkey back in the days. No proxy no win against Zerg. Same happened in this tournament. And always I see him in a tvz. Maru has a meta game against Zerg? Fast BC is his meta game? In his “goat” streak Maru defeated this zergs: impact, ragna, leenock, Scarlett, reynor, zanster, rogue and dark. Only these 2 out of group phase. So in 4 gsl he played only 2 top tier zergs and he played meta in like 1 or 2 games against them. There were like 3 ravens abuse games in those bo series. Against dark he failed a proxy, won 2 timings attack and 2 ravens (lost meta game) Against rogue won timing attack (abusing tank position), lost one game with ravens and won other, lost metagame (without ravens) and won other timing attack. So yeah he won without winning a single metagame (except ravens abuse). If you want to go deeper. In the 4 gsl maru won there were only 4 Zergs in ro16 in each (in one there were 3). So basically he won in an era of proxy and ravens and with very poor Zerg competition. He will always be second tier tvz | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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