EPTDark wins the 2019 WCS Global Finals - Page 6
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
| ||
|
junkratsdog
6 Posts
On November 03 2019 22:09 Bombit wrote: Comparing to 2018, Blizzcon 2019 looks poor. Even celebration moment was without confetti rain... well, we did have an entire 360 dome this time. that was freaking awesome. and the dome was filled throughout for the final match. it was freaking awesome. | ||
|
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 04 2019 05:04 fronkschnonk wrote: Here we go again - can't resist to disagree  Best player on average really probably is Dark this year so far. Let's compare his results with Serral's over the year: Serral in WCS Winter EU: 2nd (after a sloppy round robin group before that) | Dark in GSL S1: semifinal (close defeat vs Classic) -> imo Dark comes out on top here since a Ro8 of GSL is significantly harder than a WCS Ro8 (as we've seen this blizzcon) -> Serral 0:1 Dark Serral in IEM Katowice: Ro8 (close defeat vs soO, who won the tournament but played mediocre in group stages) | Dark in IEM Katowice: Ro4 (losing to weirdly on/off-switching supermode-Stats) -> Hard to give the edge to anyone of the two. Dark technically made it further but Serral's match vs soO easily could've gone the other way around. I consider this a draw. -> Serral 0:1 Dark Serral and Dark in WESG: -> Serral beats Dark in Ro8, goes on to the finals where he barely gets beaten by Innovation -> Serral 1:1 Dark ---------> Dark in GSL ST1: elimination in first round vs an on point Gumiho (who fights his way to the finals) Serral in WCS Spring: Champion | Dark in GSL S2: Champion -> Both are convincing champions. But GSL is still to be valued above WCS. Dark comes out on top. -> Serral 1:2 Dark Serral in WCS Summer: 2nd | Dark in GSL S3: Ro4 -> I stand by my assessment: GSL Ro4 is harder to get to than WCS final. -> Serral 1:3 Dark ---------> Serral in Assembly Summer 2019: Ro4 Even if the roster of Assembly wasn't highest calibre and Serral's tournament path not the most impressive, he still showed dominance until meeting Stats who managed to beat him in a close match. Comparing this to Dark's GSL ST1 performance, Serral clearly comes out on top. -> Serral 2:3 Dark Serral in GSL vs the World: Champion | Dark in GSL vs the World: elimination in the forst round vs an on point Elarzer (who fights his way to the finals) -> Serral 3:3 Dark Serral in WCS Fall: Champion | Dark in GSL ST2: Champion -> both absolutely demolish their brackets. But GSL ST still features far more really tough players and Dark really took the hardest imaginable road (Maru, Stats, soO, TY) -> Serral 3:4 Dark Both at Blizzcon: -> Serral 3:5 Dark One could argue if the first-round eliminations of Dark aren't tainting his average. But he lost to finalist both times. Also Serral only had one single elimination tournament with potentially high calibre opponents in the first round. Thus he barely ever was in danger to get defeated early in any tournament. Another point of critique would be that perhaps results in tournaments in which they both participated should be valued higher than my assessment that GSL is harder than WCS. Thus one could reward those GSL Ro4>WCS 2nd-occurences with only a half point for Dark each. He still would come on top. Hm, essentially here you are disagreeing on my statement that Serral was the best player on average before BlizzCon? Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I think that Dark is the most accomplished player in 2019, after BlizzCon. On average, Serral progressed further than Dark in the tournaments we played; also, I would not completely ignore the fact Serral won HSC XIX. We value the relative importance of WCS and GSL differently to the point that I think Serral was ahead of Dark before BlizzCon, but now Dark overtook him. | ||
|
MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
| ||
|
fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
On November 04 2019 05:48 Xain0n wrote: Hm, essentially here you are disagreeing on my statement that Serral was the best player on average before BlizzCon? Maybe I wasn't clear enough, but I think that Dark is the most accomplished player in 2019, after BlizzCon. On average, Serral progressed further than Dark in the tournaments we played; also, I would not completely ignore the fact Serral won HSC XIX. We value the relative importance of WCS and GSL differently to the point that I think Serral was ahead of Dark before BlizzCon, but now Dark overtook him. As far as I can see it, you never mentioned anything about "before BlizzCon". But considering this stance your conclusion is coherent with your logic. But even considering that we value the importance of WCS and GSL differently - until now I was under the impression that you'd still admit that GSL is harder overall than WCS, or am I wrong? So, even if we make a draw out of WCS 2nd and GSL Ro4, they still would've been at least on par before Blizzcon. And yeah, sorry about HSC - I missed that one. | ||
|
yeunk
2 Posts
| ||
|
FlyGaho
22 Posts
On November 04 2019 05:41 deacon.frost wrote: Raynor beat herO who's not the top sharp herO we used to know and Trap who's worst MU is PvZ. While these names are big they're not Classic or STats and he managed to do this under very zerg friendly meta. Not shitting onhim, he's good, but not that good. And his ZvZ is for w/e reason good only vs WCS players. WTF, man? Classic and Stats are both not the same players they once were. Stats was quite bad this year compared to last year | ||
|
FlyGaho
22 Posts
On November 04 2019 06:18 MockHamill wrote: Serral is still the best player on the planet. Dark is probably number two though. Reynor is a top 10 player who for some reason is especially good vs Serral. Yup Serral is still the SC2 Goat. But Dark is definitely player of the year for 2019 And Maru well.. exposed again for what most of us already know. Average Korean who peaked during the broken proxy meta | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On November 04 2019 06:53 FlyGaho wrote: Yup Serral is still the SC2 Goat. But Dark is definitely player of the year for 2019 And Maru well.. exposed again for what most of us already know. Average Korean who peaked during the broken proxy meta How can Serral be the Goat if he wasn't the greatest in one of his only 2 year he had success... Most dominant is one thing, but lets wait a bit for GOAT | ||
|
Tayar
United States1439 Posts
| ||
|
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 04 2019 06:43 fronkschnonk wrote: As far as I can see it, you never mentioned anything about "before BlizzCon". But considering this stance your conclusion is coherent with your logic. But even considering that we value the importance of WCS and GSL differently - until now I was under the impression that you'd still admit that GSL is harder overall than WCS, or am I wrong? So, even if we make a draw out of WCS 2nd and GSL Ro4, they still would've been at least on par before Blizzcon. And yeah, sorry about HSC - I missed that one. BlizzCon took place two days ago, when I wrote "before yesterday" I was saying "before BlizzCon's ro8 was played". You are right, GSL is harder than WCS so that we can even out WCS finals and GSL semifinals; it's HSC that was making me think Serral had the better year for me, but BlizzCon is by far more relevant. | ||
|
paloma_rivers
8 Posts
serral fanboy salty at it again?? haha. congrats DARKKKKK! and South Korea! in solid performance, congrats Reynor for 2nd place, he needs more training in korea and he'll be a great player That's not the tone of discourse we want at TL.net Thanks in advance for your cooperation, Waxangel | ||
|
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 04 2019 06:53 FlyGaho wrote: Yup Serral is still the SC2 Goat. But Dark is definitely player of the year for 2019 And Maru well.. exposed again for what most of us already know. Average Korean who peaked during the broken proxy meta You need to check his 4 titles again, they weren't as proxyu heavy as you haters are saying. | ||
|
franzji
United States583 Posts
On November 04 2019 06:50 yeunk wrote: So foreigners made it to the finals twice in a row and showed decent matchups against the Koreans. So can we please get rid of that stupid region lock? can we please get rid of this stupid opinion? | ||
|
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On November 04 2019 07:14 Nakajin wrote: How can Serral be the Goat if he wasn't the greatest in one of his only 2 year he had success... Most dominant is one thing, but lets wait a bit for GOAT Technically you could be the GOAT, and by far, without being the best in any of the years of your career. It's true, however, that Serral is not the GOAT; he needs a couple of major international successes before he can have a shot at the title. I do not agree at all on the fact that Serral is barely top5 at the moment; there is no one who would be favored against him in a series(not Reynor who defeated him this time, not Dark and Rogue, most likely not Maru) and he is extremely good, if not the best, in all of Zerg's matchup. Serral lost a tournament like many favourites before him, that doesn't make him weaker. | ||
|
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On November 04 2019 07:49 Xain0n wrote: I do not agree at all on the fact that Serral is barely top5 at the moment; there is no one who would be favored against him in a series(not Reynor who defeated him this time, not Dark and Rogue, most likely not Maru) and he is extremely good, if not the best, in all of Zerg's matchup. That one was a joke I should remember to put smiley, Internet and irony don't go togheter | ||
|
BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On November 04 2019 06:18 MockHamill wrote: Serral is still the best player on the planet. Dark is probably number two though. Reynor is a top 10 player who for some reason is especially good vs Serral. Serral is not the best player in the world. Best players in the world don't lose to a 17 year old greenhorn, BLIZZCON rookie, and player who cannot even get past ro.32 in the GSL Code S, on the biggest stage. Lose to the same player whom Dark utterly dominated. Serral probably wouldve lost to beast mode Classic too. I'd bet on Classic anyway Serral fans have to come to terms with reality. Dark slaughtered the best players in the world en route to the world champion title. Serral is losing big tournaments to soo, innovation, and stats, when Dark just rolls over them with ease. The fact that Dark won Code S (first for zerg in lotv) and super tournament as well, AND had the most GSL points, means that Dark wasnt just on a hot streak either. First seed in the GSL AND Blizzcon. 2019 Dark is god mode. | ||
|
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On November 04 2019 07:57 BerserkSword wrote: Serral is not the best player in the world. Best players in the world don't lose to a 17 year old greenhorn, BLIZZCON rookie, and player who cannot even get past ro.32 in the GSL Code S, on the biggest stage. Lose to the same player whom Dark utterly dominated. Serral probably wouldve lost to beast mode Classic too. I'd bet on Classic anyway Serral fans have to come to terms with reality. Dark slaughtered the best players in the world en route to the world champion title. Serral is losing big tournaments to soo, innovation, and stats, when Dark just rolls over them with ease. The fact that Dark won Code S (first for zerg in lotv) and super tournament as well, AND had the most GSL points, means that Dark wasnt just on a hot streak either. First seed in the GSL AND Blizzcon. 2019 Dark is god mode. I mean Dark had the best year but didn't have an insane year either. Just a particularly good end of the year including an amazing Blizzcon (in a favorable meta) Also Mvp lost a GSL to Life when he was 15, and he was pretty good. | ||
|
Edpayasugo
United Kingdom2216 Posts
| ||
|
BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On November 04 2019 07:59 Nakajin wrote: I mean Dark had the best year but didn't have an insane year either. Just a particularly good end of the year including an amazing Blizzcon (in a favorable meta) Why wasn't it insane? Topped GSL, won Blizzcon, made lotv history, and most importantly displayed unparalleled skill in the later half of the year. What is insane to you? The "favorable meta" is overblown. Innovation's peak occurred during 2017's Terran-favored meta. Does it take anything away from him? When serral won his blizzcon Zerg was leading race as per aligulac. Favorable meta? Maru's 4 GSLs heavily involved proxy and broken raven. Favorable meta? | ||
| ||
