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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On November 07 2019 11:34 Xain0n wrote: I'll never agree with these lists, too much focused on KeSpa era and giving Code S a disproportionate relevance. I mean its only the historically hardest and most competitive tournament across the entire lifetime of Starcraft 2, probably not worth much right? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27480 Posts
On November 07 2019 11:55 starkiller123 wrote: I mean its only the historically hardest and most competitive tournament across the entire lifetime of Starcraft 2, probably not worth much right? I think he’s right on the Kespa focus though. The old guard helped figure out the game and how to play it, people too frequently discard that aspect of a strategy game. So guys like MC and Nestea are frequently undervalued. An extreme analogy to make the point but if I singularly figured out every standard strategy in the game, and someone else came along and just executed a bit better, who’s worthy of more praise? | ||
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ParksonVN
Australia370 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On November 07 2019 12:51 ParksonVN wrote: No matter what your opinion is, the best 5 players of all time must be: InnoVation, Maru, MVP, Life and Zest, of which Inno is the best in history, he could be 2nd if Maru wins more code S/Blizzcon/IEM Katowice in next year. Though i hope Inno is not done with SC2 yet, he clearly has the skills ans is still young, just lost motivation. Zest may be top 10 but I disagree with including him as clear top 5 | ||
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Jealous
10422 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On November 07 2019 08:32 Anc13nt wrote: I'd probably replace herO/Rain with soO but otherwise I can't really dispute anyone else in your top 10 list. Edit: If the list was in order, I would say Dark should be above Stats and sOs and Zest are bit too high but otherwise I agree with it. If I had to make a list it would look something like 1. INnoVation (I think he's tied with Maru in achievements but succeeded in a tougher era with better winrates) 2. Maru 3. Life 4. Mvp 5. Dark 6. sOs 7. Stats 8. Zest 9. soO 10. Classic My bad I forgot about soO - obviously he's top 10 | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On November 07 2019 12:51 ParksonVN wrote: No matter what your opinion is, the best 5 players of all time must be: InnoVation, Maru, MVP, Life and Zest, of which Inno is the best in history, he could be 2nd if Maru wins more code S/Blizzcon/IEM Katowice in next year. Though i hope Inno is not done with SC2 yet, he clearly has the skills ans is still young, just lost motivation. Why Zest? Why not Classic? result-wise sOs? (while I don't think he should be there he has 3 WC titles IIRC) | ||
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ParksonVN
Australia370 Posts
On November 07 2019 17:03 deacon.frost wrote: Why Zest? Why not Classic? result-wise sOs? (while I don't think he should be there he has 3 WC titles IIRC) None of these had such incredible year like Zest in 2014. It's also about period of domination, not only result. | ||
Poopi
France13023 Posts
Broodlord / infestor (Roro used it so I guess they came at this moment), swarmhost infinite games, blink era, mech super strong era... Whereas MC/NesTea/MVP thrived in less obnoxious eras. GomTvT had an echo because it was hard dropping out of code S, but clearly other than Broodlord / infestor, WoL was a much better game than HotS. Kespa came at the wrong time and quit too early | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On November 07 2019 17:43 Poopi wrote: Kespa era is a bit overrated, don’t you guys remember that the game was in a horrendous state multiplayer times during said era? Broodlord / infestor (Roro used it so I guess they came at this moment), swarmhost infinite games, blink era, mech super strong era... Whereas MC/NesTea/MVP thrived in less obnoxious eras. GomTvT had an echo because it was hard dropping out of code S, but clearly other than Broodlord / infestor, WoL was a much better game than HotS. Kespa came at the wrong time and quit too early That's just your rosy glasses of nostalgia my friend. Especially MC, NesTea and MVP were most relevant in the first few years and in that period, the game was complete shit. We did not really know that back then, because we did not know better, but the small and terrible maps, rushes, 4gates and whatnot meant that this era was not great at all. Also someone above wrote that Taeja was "top 3 in the world", which is completely absurd. Maybe people read too many stuchiu articles and this has scarred their rational thinking centers? Taeja was a superb player, but he was mostly a foreign circuit havester, he made Ro4 in GSL afair, but that's still not enough. | ||
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ProFalseIdol
70 Posts
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DSh1
292 Posts
On November 07 2019 17:56 opisska wrote: That's just your rosy glasses of nostalgia my friend. Especially MC, NesTea and MVP were most relevant in the first few years and in that period, the game was complete shit. We did not really know that back then, because we did not know better, but the small and terrible maps, rushes, 4gates and whatnot meant that this era was not great at all. Also someone above wrote that Taeja was "top 3 in the world", which is completely absurd. Maybe people read too many stuchiu articles and this has scarred their rational thinking centers? Taeja was a superb player, but he was mostly a foreign circuit havester, he made Ro4 in GSL afair, but that's still not enough. Taeja just beat scrubs like Life and Innovation while harvesting Circuits. Taeja is useless. | ||
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Obamarauder
697 Posts
On November 07 2019 22:55 DSh1 wrote: Taeja just beat scrubs like Life and Innovation while harvesting Circuits. Taeja is useless. didnt taeja come back from retirement and almost beat serral in a homestory cup? totally overrated | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On November 07 2019 10:09 tskarzyn wrote: Anyone else think Life would've been the undisputed GOAT if he wasn't banned from competition? And Zest in the top 10? Not sure how he makes it there if Taeja doesn't, unless we are making a GOAT list for floating minerals... There's no guarantee Life would gave continued winning had he not been banned. sOs for instance was maybe a top 5 HotS player (maybe, I would put him at #6) but didn't win anything in LotV. Life at his peak was getting between 1st and ro4 in almost every event, but that peak didn't actually last that long. As fir Zest, he's the most dominant protoss without question. He tied Maru and INno for most korean wins in a given year, except he did it in a year with fewer tournaments. Bonus points because he also led KT to a proleague win that year. | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On November 07 2019 17:43 Poopi wrote: Kespa era is a bit overrated, don’t you guys remember that the game was in a horrendous state multiplayer times during said era? Broodlord / infestor (Roro used it so I guess they came at this moment), swarmhost infinite games, blink era, mech super strong era... Whereas MC/NesTea/MVP thrived in less obnoxious eras. GomTvT had an echo because it was hard dropping out of code S, but clearly other than Broodlord / infestor, WoL was a much better game than HotS. Kespa came at the wrong time and quit too early Kespa came during BL/infestor, most people don't Include it in the kespa era. There were also barely any infinite swarmhost games under kespa/in korean tournaments anyway. Blink era was a problem I guess, though the mech era didn't really last that long. No way was WoL a better game when for the most part people didn't know how to play it. Most fun expansion? yes. Best in terms of competition? not even close. The level of play and competition under kespa was still much higher than during most of WoL. Case in point, there was only one GSL final from the start of HotS until the end of kespa that featured a non-kespa transfer player (Life vs PartinG). | ||
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TheAnarchy
Chile1105 Posts
On November 07 2019 10:09 tskarzyn wrote: Anyone else think Life would've been the undisputed GOAT if he wasn't banned from competition? And Zest in the top 10? Not sure how he makes it there if Taeja doesn't, unless we are making a GOAT list for floating minerals... Yeah there is a concensus Life is the goat. If he wasnt banned he would have 20 or more premiers and like 7 gsl at least. But we cant say it because he was banned. Same as Savior. Life was the last good player and defined the last era of good sc2. Since then Inno continued a bit the lvl and after that 0 lvl. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
On November 08 2019 00:18 nojok wrote: If we look at the broader picture and take into account the entertainment provided by the players, MC is number 1 imo. Nope. There is a concensus the most entertaining player of all time is actually IdrA. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27480 Posts
On November 08 2019 00:33 TheAnarchy wrote: Yeah there is a concensus Life is the goat. If he wasnt banned he would have 20 or more premiers and like 7 gsl at least. But we cant say it because he was banned. Same as Savior. Life was the last good player and defined the last era of good sc2. Since then Inno continued a bit the lvl and after that 0 lvl. Can people stop saying there’s a consensus when there isn’t any such thing? A good argument for Life being up there sure, but that’s not what a consensus is. It’s not particularly similar to Savior either, Savior’s seemingly unbeatable ZvP was cracked by Bisu and he never really adjusted to that innovation, and unlike Life he didn’t turn to getting involved in betting activities when he was at the top of his powers, indeed the decline of his powers were likely a reason as to why he did. ‘Last good player’ is just a preposterous statement. | ||
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