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On March 15 2019 04:26 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2019 03:50 DomeGetta wrote:On March 15 2019 03:46 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:42 DomeGetta wrote:On March 15 2019 03:38 Pursuit_ wrote:On March 15 2019 03:17 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:08 Boggyb wrote:On March 15 2019 02:30 fishjie wrote:On March 15 2019 01:04 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 00:39 fishjie wrote:
maru vs serral will be sick. hope maru will win, cause otherwise the insufferable serral fans boys like dave will be popping off and demanding that the bullying of serral stop (see power rank thread). i'm also ok with scarlett winning that'd be awesome too, there are no insufferable scarlett fan boys Noo, not really. Maru winning would result in Maru being canonized with every single Serral's accomplishment being diminished("you see? He only won because he dodged Maru, that foreigner scrub"); Inno winning is somehow better even if that would crown him GOAT in the eyes of his fans. not really, serral already proved himself best player in 2018 period, and i hate serral fanboys with a passion. its pretty much not open for debate. GSL vs the world, and then at blizzcon - he murdered all the korean competition. what i'm annoyed with is the hyperbole. serrals stats are inflated by being protected from region lock. he'd still have been best in 2018, but have that kind of record if no region lock? nah. No he didn't. He didn't beat a single top 3 Terran. He also didn't have a single series win while playing on the wrong side of an imbalanced match up. This is exactly what I meant. Let me inform you, Boggyb, that Serral didn't beat any top 3 Terran(a statement that could be contested as Gumiho being ahead of Innovation at the time HSC XVIII happened is a very dubious claim) because he did not face them; we are obviously speaking of what happened AFTER 4.30 BU, when Serral rose to prominence. Serral didn't actively dodge Terran, he just only got to play a bo1 against Maru at GSL vs the World, which he won. He beat Inno at GSL vs the World 3-0. He also lost to Maru 0-3 at Wesg which everyone seems to convienantly forget. Nobody forgets. Maru was the best when it happened while Serral wasn't at his best yet, it's easy; everything I have been discussing of takes into consideration that Serral became a player capable of beating top koreans in Premier tournament finals at a certain point between April and August and he started dominating after GSL vs the World. Ok but the assertion that was made was that Serral was hands down the best player of 2018..not May to December. When u line up achievements on both sides to me it still seems that has to be Maru and by a good margin. Not ignoring 4 wcs not ignoring blizzcon..3 gsls is still more difficult forget about wesg and even the 3 to 1 head to head mapscore. To emphasize your point: May as starting point of Serral's dominance is a bold assumption since he only proved his capability of winning vs toughest competition in august. Also, since he wasn't playing Maru (nobody's fault) he wasn't solely dominant for quite some time with Maru dominating GSLs before and after GSL vs The World.
I had edited already as it was a wrong statement: Serral started dominating WCS in January and globally in August.
As for Maru, his Code S domination could have not ended yet, but if we look at the global scene he was dethroned after GSL vs the World.
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Excited to see Scarlett in the top 4! IIRC she typically does quite well at tournaments in China.
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On March 15 2019 04:30 Solar424 wrote:
Scarlett was the only player who managed to consistently make Serral look mortal last year, should be a fun match.
Exactly, can we root for both o them?
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On March 15 2019 04:37 MattRz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2019 04:30 Solar424 wrote:
Scarlett was the only player who managed to consistently make Serral look mortal last year, should be a fun match. Exactly, can we root for both o them?
no sorry you have to pick a side there is no middle ground here this is TL
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I really hope Innovation doesn't TvT Maru out and then lose to Serral. That would be the worst possible ending to this tournament. I feel like Innovation vs Serral is 50-50 while Maru would be favored. I don't believe Serral has ever been favored over either TY or Maru and he has gotten pretty lucky with brackets. His ZvT has always looked weak relative to his other match-ups. He almost lost to Taeja.
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On March 15 2019 04:40 JJH777 wrote:
I really hope Innovation doesn't TvT Maru out and then lose to Serral. That would be the worst possible ending to this tournament. I feel like Innovation vs Serral is 50-50 while Maru would be favored. I don't believe Serral has ever been favored over either TY or Maru and he has gotten pretty lucky with brackets. His ZvT has always looked weak relative to his other match-ups. He almost lost to Taeja.
That happened in a tournament where all the Zerg consistently lost to Terran, except for Serral. TY's TvZ never looked incredibly deadly last year; as for Maru, Serral was at least capable of going toe to toe against him at GSL vs the World, I think an official extended series would have been a true clash of titans. Not to mention Serral's BlizzCon form, that I believe(no arguments based on facts for or against this can be made, only opinions) would have proven too much for anyone.
The ending you are imagining is a very nice one, if you ask me 
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On March 15 2019 03:54 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2019 03:50 DomeGetta wrote:On March 15 2019 03:46 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:42 DomeGetta wrote:On March 15 2019 03:38 Pursuit_ wrote:On March 15 2019 03:17 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:08 Boggyb wrote:On March 15 2019 02:30 fishjie wrote:On March 15 2019 01:04 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 00:39 fishjie wrote:
maru vs serral will be sick. hope maru will win, cause otherwise the insufferable serral fans boys like dave will be popping off and demanding that the bullying of serral stop (see power rank thread). i'm also ok with scarlett winning that'd be awesome too, there are no insufferable scarlett fan boys Noo, not really. Maru winning would result in Maru being canonized with every single Serral's accomplishment being diminished("you see? He only won because he dodged Maru, that foreigner scrub"); Inno winning is somehow better even if that would crown him GOAT in the eyes of his fans. not really, serral already proved himself best player in 2018 period, and i hate serral fanboys with a passion. its pretty much not open for debate. GSL vs the world, and then at blizzcon - he murdered all the korean competition. what i'm annoyed with is the hyperbole. serrals stats are inflated by being protected from region lock. he'd still have been best in 2018, but have that kind of record if no region lock? nah. No he didn't. He didn't beat a single top 3 Terran. He also didn't have a single series win while playing on the wrong side of an imbalanced match up. This is exactly what I meant. Let me inform you, Boggyb, that Serral didn't beat any top 3 Terran(a statement that could be contested as Gumiho being ahead of Innovation at the time HSC XVIII happened is a very dubious claim) because he did not face them; we are obviously speaking of what happened AFTER 4.30 BU, when Serral rose to prominence. Serral didn't actively dodge Terran, he just only got to play a bo1 against Maru at GSL vs the World, which he won. He beat Inno at GSL vs the World 3-0. He also lost to Maru 0-3 at Wesg which everyone seems to convienantly forget. Nobody forgets. Maru was the best when it happened while Serral wasn't at his best yet, it's easy; everything I have been discussing of takes into consideration that Serral became a player capable of beating top koreans in Premier tournament finals at a certain point between April and August and he started dominating after GSL vs the World. Ok but the assertion that was made was that Serral was hands down the best player of 2018..not May to December. When u line up achievements on both sides to me it still seems that has to be Maru and by a good margin. Not ignoring 4 wcs not ignoring blizzcon..3 gsls is still more difficult forget about wesg and even the 3 to 1 head to head mapscore. It's the opinion of many(mine and TL writers' too, most likely of the majority of the people on this site according to the polls) that after weighting all the respective accomplishments, Serral had the best year; you are forgetting both GSL vs the World and HSC, how to rate WCS compared to Code S is the key and it's hard to agree on that. Serral's advantage is slight in any of case, Maru's year was definitely one of the best in sc2's history.
I think Serral looked stronger than Maru last year (he had higher winrate against Koreans) but Maru had the better tournament run. Serral's tournament run in 2018 is honestly comparable to Rogue's in late 2017-early 2018 (4 WCS + Blizzcon + GSL vs the World and some semifinals is around as impressive as winning IEM Shanghai, Super Tournamnent, IEM WC and Blizzcon). I bring this up since I think most people would agree Maru's run was more impressive than Rogue's (no one has ever even gotten close to winning 3 GSls in a row besides Nestea). Even though Maru's winrates weren't amazing in the process, I think he has the most impressive run in SC2 history.
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On March 15 2019 03:38 Pursuit_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2019 03:17 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:08 Boggyb wrote:On March 15 2019 02:30 fishjie wrote:On March 15 2019 01:04 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 00:39 fishjie wrote:
maru vs serral will be sick. hope maru will win, cause otherwise the insufferable serral fans boys like dave will be popping off and demanding that the bullying of serral stop (see power rank thread). i'm also ok with scarlett winning that'd be awesome too, there are no insufferable scarlett fan boys Noo, not really. Maru winning would result in Maru being canonized with every single Serral's accomplishment being diminished("you see? He only won because he dodged Maru, that foreigner scrub"); Inno winning is somehow better even if that would crown him GOAT in the eyes of his fans. not really, serral already proved himself best player in 2018 period, and i hate serral fanboys with a passion. its pretty much not open for debate. GSL vs the world, and then at blizzcon - he murdered all the korean competition. what i'm annoyed with is the hyperbole. serrals stats are inflated by being protected from region lock. he'd still have been best in 2018, but have that kind of record if no region lock? nah. No he didn't. He didn't beat a single top 3 Terran. He also didn't have a single series win while playing on the wrong side of an imbalanced match up. This is exactly what I meant. Let me inform you, Boggyb, that Serral didn't beat any top 3 Terran(a statement that could be contested as Gumiho being ahead of Innovation at the time HSC XVIII happened is a very dubious claim) because he did not face them; we are obviously speaking of what happened AFTER 4.30 BU, when Serral rose to prominence. Serral didn't actively dodge Terran, he just only got to play a bo1 against Maru at GSL vs the World, which he won. He beat Inno at GSL vs the World 3-0.
exactly. serral beat inno multiple times, and i think at HSC as well?
and LOL at anyone saying inno wasn't a top 3 terran at the time. Maru, TY, and innovation are top 3. who else belongs there? Gumiho? Alive (LOL). cmon now
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On March 14 2019 23:11 HsDLTitich wrote:
Abolish 3rd place matches!
Now there’s a petition I can get behind
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On March 15 2019 05:07 Anc13nt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2019 03:54 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:50 DomeGetta wrote:On March 15 2019 03:46 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:42 DomeGetta wrote:On March 15 2019 03:38 Pursuit_ wrote:On March 15 2019 03:17 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:08 Boggyb wrote:On March 15 2019 02:30 fishjie wrote:On March 15 2019 01:04 Xain0n wrote:
[quote]
Noo, not really. Maru winning would result in Maru being canonized with every single Serral's accomplishment being diminished("you see? He only won because he dodged Maru, that foreigner scrub"); Inno winning is somehow better even if that would crown him GOAT in the eyes of his fans.
not really, serral already proved himself best player in 2018 period, and i hate serral fanboys with a passion. its pretty much not open for debate. GSL vs the world, and then at blizzcon - he murdered all the korean competition. what i'm annoyed with is the hyperbole. serrals stats are inflated by being protected from region lock. he'd still have been best in 2018, but have that kind of record if no region lock? nah. No he didn't. He didn't beat a single top 3 Terran. He also didn't have a single series win while playing on the wrong side of an imbalanced match up. This is exactly what I meant. Let me inform you, Boggyb, that Serral didn't beat any top 3 Terran(a statement that could be contested as Gumiho being ahead of Innovation at the time HSC XVIII happened is a very dubious claim) because he did not face them; we are obviously speaking of what happened AFTER 4.30 BU, when Serral rose to prominence. Serral didn't actively dodge Terran, he just only got to play a bo1 against Maru at GSL vs the World, which he won. He beat Inno at GSL vs the World 3-0. He also lost to Maru 0-3 at Wesg which everyone seems to convienantly forget. Nobody forgets. Maru was the best when it happened while Serral wasn't at his best yet, it's easy; everything I have been discussing of takes into consideration that Serral became a player capable of beating top koreans in Premier tournament finals at a certain point between April and August and he started dominating after GSL vs the World. Ok but the assertion that was made was that Serral was hands down the best player of 2018..not May to December. When u line up achievements on both sides to me it still seems that has to be Maru and by a good margin. Not ignoring 4 wcs not ignoring blizzcon..3 gsls is still more difficult forget about wesg and even the 3 to 1 head to head mapscore. It's the opinion of many(mine and TL writers' too, most likely of the majority of the people on this site according to the polls) that after weighting all the respective accomplishments, Serral had the best year; you are forgetting both GSL vs the World and HSC, how to rate WCS compared to Code S is the key and it's hard to agree on that. Serral's advantage is slight in any of case, Maru's year was definitely one of the best in sc2's history. I think Serral looked stronger than Maru last year (he had higher winrate against Koreans) but Maru had the better tournament run. Serral's tournament run in 2018 is honestly comparable to Rogue's in late 2017-early 2018 (4 WCS + Blizzcon + GSL vs the World and some semifinals is around as impressive as winning IEM Shanghai, Super Tournamnent, IEM WC and Blizzcon). I bring this up since I think most people would agree Maru's run was more impressive than Rogue's (no one has ever even gotten close to winning 3 GSls in a row besides Nestea). Even though Maru's winrates weren't amazing in the process, I think he has the most impressive run in SC2 history.
Serral played less Koreans, so he couldn't fuck up his winrate. I don't wanna downplay hium, he's very good, but the more you play, the more chance to lose against them.
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On March 15 2019 05:08 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2019 03:38 Pursuit_ wrote:On March 15 2019 03:17 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:08 Boggyb wrote:On March 15 2019 02:30 fishjie wrote:On March 15 2019 01:04 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 00:39 fishjie wrote:
maru vs serral will be sick. hope maru will win, cause otherwise the insufferable serral fans boys like dave will be popping off and demanding that the bullying of serral stop (see power rank thread). i'm also ok with scarlett winning that'd be awesome too, there are no insufferable scarlett fan boys Noo, not really. Maru winning would result in Maru being canonized with every single Serral's accomplishment being diminished("you see? He only won because he dodged Maru, that foreigner scrub"); Inno winning is somehow better even if that would crown him GOAT in the eyes of his fans. not really, serral already proved himself best player in 2018 period, and i hate serral fanboys with a passion. its pretty much not open for debate. GSL vs the world, and then at blizzcon - he murdered all the korean competition. what i'm annoyed with is the hyperbole. serrals stats are inflated by being protected from region lock. he'd still have been best in 2018, but have that kind of record if no region lock? nah. No he didn't. He didn't beat a single top 3 Terran. He also didn't have a single series win while playing on the wrong side of an imbalanced match up. This is exactly what I meant. Let me inform you, Boggyb, that Serral didn't beat any top 3 Terran(a statement that could be contested as Gumiho being ahead of Innovation at the time HSC XVIII happened is a very dubious claim) because he did not face them; we are obviously speaking of what happened AFTER 4.30 BU, when Serral rose to prominence. Serral didn't actively dodge Terran, he just only got to play a bo1 against Maru at GSL vs the World, which he won. He beat Inno at GSL vs the World 3-0. exactly. serral beat inno multiple times, and i think at HSC as well? and LOL at anyone saying inno wasn't a top 3 terran at the time. Maru, TY, and innovation are top 3. who else belongs there? Gumiho? Alive (LOL). cmon now
To be fair Gumiho was better than INno in 2018, he did better in all three GSL seasons as well as Katowice, and almost made it to blizzcon (got the 9th spot in korea standings)
In season 2 (around the time of GSL vs The World) I'd say ByuN was better than INno as well. He looked really sharp that season (beating Stats 4-1 for example).
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On March 15 2019 05:08 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2019 03:38 Pursuit_ wrote:On March 15 2019 03:17 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:08 Boggyb wrote:On March 15 2019 02:30 fishjie wrote:On March 15 2019 01:04 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 00:39 fishjie wrote:
maru vs serral will be sick. hope maru will win, cause otherwise the insufferable serral fans boys like dave will be popping off and demanding that the bullying of serral stop (see power rank thread). i'm also ok with scarlett winning that'd be awesome too, there are no insufferable scarlett fan boys Noo, not really. Maru winning would result in Maru being canonized with every single Serral's accomplishment being diminished("you see? He only won because he dodged Maru, that foreigner scrub"); Inno winning is somehow better even if that would crown him GOAT in the eyes of his fans. not really, serral already proved himself best player in 2018 period, and i hate serral fanboys with a passion. its pretty much not open for debate. GSL vs the world, and then at blizzcon - he murdered all the korean competition. what i'm annoyed with is the hyperbole. serrals stats are inflated by being protected from region lock. he'd still have been best in 2018, but have that kind of record if no region lock? nah. No he didn't. He didn't beat a single top 3 Terran. He also didn't have a single series win while playing on the wrong side of an imbalanced match up. This is exactly what I meant. Let me inform you, Boggyb, that Serral didn't beat any top 3 Terran(a statement that could be contested as Gumiho being ahead of Innovation at the time HSC XVIII happened is a very dubious claim) because he did not face them; we are obviously speaking of what happened AFTER 4.30 BU, when Serral rose to prominence. Serral didn't actively dodge Terran, he just only got to play a bo1 against Maru at GSL vs the World, which he won. He beat Inno at GSL vs the World 3-0. exactly. serral beat inno multiple times, and i think at HSC as well? and LOL at anyone saying inno wasn't a top 3 terran at the time. Maru, TY, and innovation are top 3. who else belongs there? Gumiho? Alive (LOL). cmon now
What were you watching in 2018? Because Innovation was terrible that year. Maru, Ty > Gumiho and at some point Byun >> Innovation. He was really bad at 2018. Just check the results and rewatch some vods.
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To be honest I dont think serral ever looked great in ZvT. Almost lost to both innovation, who really wasnt in shape, and taeja at homestory cup and lost to innovation and almost to gumiho at IEM where terrans were otherwise performing atrociously.
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On March 15 2019 06:37 Jerom wrote:
To be honest I dont think serral ever looked great in ZvT. Almost lost to both innovation, who really wasnt in shape, and taeja at homestory cup and lost to innovation and almost to gumiho at IEM where terrans were otherwise performing atrociously.
Serral looked very impressive in ZvT at GSL vs the World.
Innovation was in shape at HSC, unlike most of 2018, and Terran dominated that tournament: I want to remind you that soO and Rogue didn't even make it to the playoffs.
At IEM Serral dropped one map to Gumiho but didn't really come close to lose the series; Terran were eliminated en masse but they didn't exactly perform terribly, especially in TvZ: TY beat soO, Maru beat Dark, Gumiho beat Rogue, UThermal beat Scarlett, Inno beat Serral.
Thus said, ZvT is historically Serral's worst matchup, not even taking into account almost every foreigner is relatively struggling against T due to the lack of world class Terran in WCS.
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On March 15 2019 05:07 Anc13nt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2019 03:54 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:50 DomeGetta wrote:On March 15 2019 03:46 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:42 DomeGetta wrote:On March 15 2019 03:38 Pursuit_ wrote:On March 15 2019 03:17 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:08 Boggyb wrote:On March 15 2019 02:30 fishjie wrote:On March 15 2019 01:04 Xain0n wrote:
[quote]
Noo, not really. Maru winning would result in Maru being canonized with every single Serral's accomplishment being diminished("you see? He only won because he dodged Maru, that foreigner scrub"); Inno winning is somehow better even if that would crown him GOAT in the eyes of his fans.
not really, serral already proved himself best player in 2018 period, and i hate serral fanboys with a passion. its pretty much not open for debate. GSL vs the world, and then at blizzcon - he murdered all the korean competition. what i'm annoyed with is the hyperbole. serrals stats are inflated by being protected from region lock. he'd still have been best in 2018, but have that kind of record if no region lock? nah. No he didn't. He didn't beat a single top 3 Terran. He also didn't have a single series win while playing on the wrong side of an imbalanced match up. This is exactly what I meant. Let me inform you, Boggyb, that Serral didn't beat any top 3 Terran(a statement that could be contested as Gumiho being ahead of Innovation at the time HSC XVIII happened is a very dubious claim) because he did not face them; we are obviously speaking of what happened AFTER 4.30 BU, when Serral rose to prominence. Serral didn't actively dodge Terran, he just only got to play a bo1 against Maru at GSL vs the World, which he won. He beat Inno at GSL vs the World 3-0. He also lost to Maru 0-3 at Wesg which everyone seems to convienantly forget. Nobody forgets. Maru was the best when it happened while Serral wasn't at his best yet, it's easy; everything I have been discussing of takes into consideration that Serral became a player capable of beating top koreans in Premier tournament finals at a certain point between April and August and he started dominating after GSL vs the World. Ok but the assertion that was made was that Serral was hands down the best player of 2018..not May to December. When u line up achievements on both sides to me it still seems that has to be Maru and by a good margin. Not ignoring 4 wcs not ignoring blizzcon..3 gsls is still more difficult forget about wesg and even the 3 to 1 head to head mapscore. It's the opinion of many(mine and TL writers' too, most likely of the majority of the people on this site according to the polls) that after weighting all the respective accomplishments, Serral had the best year; you are forgetting both GSL vs the World and HSC, how to rate WCS compared to Code S is the key and it's hard to agree on that. Serral's advantage is slight in any of case, Maru's year was definitely one of the best in sc2's history. I think Serral looked stronger than Maru last year (he had higher winrate against Koreans) but Maru had the better tournament run. Serral's tournament run in 2018 is honestly comparable to Rogue's in late 2017-early 2018 (4 WCS + Blizzcon + GSL vs the World and some semifinals is around as impressive as winning IEM Shanghai, Super Tournamnent, IEM WC and Blizzcon). I bring this up since I think most people would agree Maru's run was more impressive than Rogue's (no one has ever even gotten close to winning 3 GSls in a row besides Nestea). Even though Maru's winrates weren't amazing in the process, I think he has the most impressive run in SC2 history.
You are not considering HSC; while not classified as Premier it was a notable tournament, the icing on Serral's cake.
Rogue's run took place across two different seasons; also, he didn't do well at his own regional competition(Code S), unlike Serral.
I won't stop repeating that winning four separate tournaments is hard, and that WCS was a proper Premier in 2018 despite being still obviously easier than GSL.
To me, Serral's run is better than Rogue's.
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I approve of this final four, can we just agree on that? 👍
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I feel like this obsession with Maru v Serral is getting nowhere, which is part of the fun I suppose.
If you are a Serral fanboy you have to admit that 4 GSLs in a row is amazing. Imagine getting through IEM Katowice 4 times in a row to win it, but with your opponents having a week or two to prepare for you. On the other hand, After WESG last year, Serral did win everything except Nation Wars and Maru had chances to face him but crumbled early. Serral's ZvT against Koreans is suspect a bit yes, but Innovation was on point in HSC and beat Rogue in Blizzcon. Serral didn't totally get a pass like Neeb did winning Kespa Cup.
It seems to me that Serral vs Maru comparisons feel like the old NCAA College football issues when you had unbeaten teams that were juggernauts but played weak schedules vs SEC teams who have a few losses and they never meet in the bowl games. Who was better? You never get to decide for sure.
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On March 15 2019 08:08 frazzle wrote:
I feel like this obsession with Maru v Serral is getting nowhere, which is part of the fun I suppose.
If you are a Serral fanboy you have to admit that 4 GSLs in a row is amazing. Imagine getting through IEM Katowice 4 times in a row to win it, but with your opponents having a week or two to prepare for you. On the other hand, After WESG last year, Serral did win everything except Nation Wars and Maru had chances to face him but crumbled early. Serral's ZvT against Koreans is suspect a bit yes, but Innovation was on point in HSC and beat Rogue in Blizzcon. Serral didn't totally get a pass like Neeb did winning Kespa Cup.
It seems to me that Serral vs Maru comparisons feel like the old NCAA College football issues when you had unbeaten teams that were juggernauts but played weak schedules vs SEC teams who have a few losses and they never meet in the bowl games. Who was better? You never get to decide for sure.
I don't think we are going anywhere, in fact.
Also, I don't think anyone said Maru's year wasn't amazing but he "only" won 3 consecutive Code S.
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On March 15 2019 05:08 fishjie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2019 03:38 Pursuit_ wrote:On March 15 2019 03:17 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 03:08 Boggyb wrote:On March 15 2019 02:30 fishjie wrote:On March 15 2019 01:04 Xain0n wrote:On March 15 2019 00:39 fishjie wrote:
maru vs serral will be sick. hope maru will win, cause otherwise the insufferable serral fans boys like dave will be popping off and demanding that the bullying of serral stop (see power rank thread). i'm also ok with scarlett winning that'd be awesome too, there are no insufferable scarlett fan boys Noo, not really. Maru winning would result in Maru being canonized with every single Serral's accomplishment being diminished("you see? He only won because he dodged Maru, that foreigner scrub"); Inno winning is somehow better even if that would crown him GOAT in the eyes of his fans. not really, serral already proved himself best player in 2018 period, and i hate serral fanboys with a passion. its pretty much not open for debate. GSL vs the world, and then at blizzcon - he murdered all the korean competition. what i'm annoyed with is the hyperbole. serrals stats are inflated by being protected from region lock. he'd still have been best in 2018, but have that kind of record if no region lock? nah. No he didn't. He didn't beat a single top 3 Terran. He also didn't have a single series win while playing on the wrong side of an imbalanced match up. This is exactly what I meant. Let me inform you, Boggyb, that Serral didn't beat any top 3 Terran(a statement that could be contested as Gumiho being ahead of Innovation at the time HSC XVIII happened is a very dubious claim) because he did not face them; we are obviously speaking of what happened AFTER 4.30 BU, when Serral rose to prominence. Serral didn't actively dodge Terran, he just only got to play a bo1 against Maru at GSL vs the World, which he won. He beat Inno at GSL vs the World 3-0. exactly. serral beat inno multiple times, and i think at HSC as well? and LOL at anyone saying inno wasn't a top 3 terran at the time. Maru, TY, and innovation are top 3. who else belongs there? Gumiho? Alive (LOL). cmon now
Innovation didn't make the ro8 in any GSL last year. That's not very impressive. GuMiho made it twice.
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On March 15 2019 08:32 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2019 08:08 frazzle wrote:
I feel like this obsession with Maru v Serral is getting nowhere, which is part of the fun I suppose.
If you are a Serral fanboy you have to admit that 4 GSLs in a row is amazing. Imagine getting through IEM Katowice 4 times in a row to win it, but with your opponents having a week or two to prepare for you. On the other hand, After WESG last year, Serral did win everything except Nation Wars and Maru had chances to face him but crumbled early. Serral's ZvT against Koreans is suspect a bit yes, but Innovation was on point in HSC and beat Rogue in Blizzcon. Serral didn't totally get a pass like Neeb did winning Kespa Cup.
It seems to me that Serral vs Maru comparisons feel like the old NCAA College football issues when you had unbeaten teams that were juggernauts but played weak schedules vs SEC teams who have a few losses and they never meet in the bowl games. Who was better? You never get to decide for sure. I don't think we are going anywhere, in fact. Also, I don't think anyone said Maru's year wasn't amazing but he "only" won 3 consecutive Code S.
Great point. Honestly I feel like the "best player in the world" debate shouldn't even be happening right now. If Maru won Blizzcon, or advanced significantly further than Serral, then yes he would be the indisputable "best player in the world". However now I think there are two branches...Serral is the "best short term tournament player in the world" while Maru is the "best preparation tournament player in the world" and they both can be safely classified as "the two best players in the world."
Also, the people crying the loudest about Terran being underpowered are also the ones championing Maru as the best player in the world...cognitive dissonance.
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EPT
