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On March 14 2019 11:57 jy_9876543210 wrote: Macsed's response: "说下当时情况吧，第一盘打完我觉得这个人很菜，当然所有人都和我这么说，我也觉得他很菜，然后第二盘才会选择一个低保rush因为我觉得只要过去把他门口的兵营打了就能赢，但是我过去看到他家里有个兵营没开气我以为他要开2矿，我就封了他得气，一旦封了他拿什么打我低保？可我万万没想到他这个战术是rail教他的，因为在职业内战里面这种战术是不成立的，所以我就没多想。打完这场比赛rail跑过来疯狂炫耀说是我教的，因为他知道我会觉得他是菜鸟肯定会想快点结束，然后就家里一个兵营外面3个兵营来骗我。果真我被骗到了，当时被骗到了乱导致各种失误，但是我认为就算不失误这一盘我也赢不了，因为我家里已经挡不住了，他只要在外面开个基地农民传出来也是随便赢。哎都怪我，太丢人了" My translation: "The situation was, after the first map I thought this guy is weak, of course that's also what everyone's been telling me, and I felt the same. So on the second map I decided to cannon rush since I thought I could win by destroying the gateway in his base, but when I saw his base, there's a gateway but no gas, so I thought he's gonna expand, and I blocked his gas, so he can't stop my cannon rush. But what I didn't know was that it's rail who taught him this strategy, because he knew that I would try to finish this game quickly since I thought my opponent is weak, and he tricked me by one gateway in main base and 3 proxies outside. That totally got me, and resulted in a lot of mistakes from me. But I think even if I didn't make those mistakes, I still wouldn't win that map, since I couldn't defend my base, he could just make another base and recall the probes. It's my fault, this is an embarrassing game." | ||
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hiro protagonist
1294 Posts
I’m not gonna acuse Macsed or 7091 of intending to throw a game, because I don’t have that proof. You can fix a match without involving the players anyways. We do know SOMEONE fixed it due to the betting lines, and unless someone can give me a logical reason as to why the betting lines changed like they did that doesn’t involve match fixing, we should treat this as a match fixing incident, and get to the bottom of it, end of story. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
On March 20 2019 03:04 Powerfoe wrote: On the other hand, people might argue that the betting volume was small and that Pinnacle might not have seen it to be worth their time to investigate properly. They do not share any details about their investigation process, so your guess is as good as mine. Take this quote from Wax who originally posted about this: + Show Spoiler + Given that there have been past suspicious line-movements that warranted cancellation from Pinnacle, and others that were allowed to stand, I can't say it sheds much more light on the situation. I have not really seen anything that has greatly changed any of the original points I made, so I have decided not to make any edits to the OP. And this is why I question your impartiality. Do you have an agenda here? Did you lose money on the betting and that is why you are bitter? So new information and facts were presented about Pinnancle and you deliberately refuse to edit your original posting to include this information, I'm sorry, this makes you additionally suspicious and your motives are questionable. If you were fully impartial, you would update your original post with the new information about Pinnacle because it gives everyone a more complete and fair picture of the facts after your original post. Now you are acknowledging that you don't really care about sharing all the new facts as they come out and you insist on painting your side of the picture only. It appears you only care about defaming and slandering MacSed without giving him a fair process, especially with the new facts since your original posting. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
On March 20 2019 06:31 opisska wrote: Yeah guys, sorry to interrupt your circlejerk, but I just watched Maru vs. Scarlett g1. If you want to condemn people for willingly throwing games, where is the petition to ban Maru from competitive esports? Or is he too beloved, unlike a random Chinese guy and that's it? Unfortunately, people in this thread have their pitchforks already and their minds made up about MacSed. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
Except that it is comparable. Players make the most basic noob mistakes at the highest levels, even Maru. You have a 3 time GSL champion, one of the best players ever to play SC2, who has played it as a pro for 9 years, making a basic noob mistake. If Maru can do that, so can MacSed. And if you took the time to view Rotti's video analysis of MacSed's game, Rotti clearl points out the mistakes that MacSed made, assuming there was no match fixing. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
On March 20 2019 02:47 ZenithM wrote: I found OP quite well made actually. He obviously holds the opinion that there was match fixing, sure, but he presented us with facts only as they were given to him. I don't see any foul play here. Obviously he might be a little sour that he lost $300 on this but he wouldn't make such a sillly bet on such a low profile game if he weren't ready to lose it in the first place. Do you realize with many online newspapers, if new facts are presented that contradict the original article, the author of the article will typically update the article with these new facts at the end of the article? They do this to show they are impartial to readers and to give readers a more complete picture of the story. The OP here, PowerFoe, just admitted to knowing about the new facts presented by Pinnacle but refuses to update the original post with these new facts. The OP is not impartial and biased. You see, I would have more faith in the OP, if he/she continued to update the original post with the new facts as they come in, even if these facts don't help his/her case. Just like they do with online newspapers. But the OP, PowerFoe, refuses to do this so I cannot trust the motive and impartiality of PowerFoe. User was warned for this post | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Plus TL admins can add whatever they feel like as a sticker to the thread like they did with MacSed's statement. Btw, it's a pattern common to everybody siding with MacSed (or at least the very skeptical), they're all trying to involve somebody else instead of focusing on what would redeem MacSed himself to the public eye here. One time it's "oh Rail gave the newbie an unbeatable secret build, MacSed had no chance", now it's "OP is posting in bad faith". There is nothing in what Powerfoe said that would suggest he has some sort of personal vendetta against MacSed. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
On March 20 2019 10:15 ZenithM wrote: I mean, in the end he's just one guy presenting his opinion on a public forum. He doesn't have to moderate the discussion in any way past his OP, nor is he some kind of official prosecutor supposed to present all the elements of the case or some shit. Yeah, it's called not being impartial, LOL. You could have said it in fewer words. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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stephenrau
468 Posts
On March 20 2019 10:45 Alejandrisha wrote: that rottie says this has anything to racism is fucking insulting Did he so much as say that? I found his entire long winded defense of excuses so ridiculous I couldn't be bothered to watch completely. It is sad too, because he was honestly pretty much the only SC2 streamer I watch these days, and now I question his logic among other things. It's gone from me watching his stream as much as I can (him being one of my favorite Twitch options) to not sure how I can watch anymore, since I can't trust his judgements. I haven't made a TL post since 2012, and this situation and the absolutely ludicrous defense a few spammers continue to make here has got me to post again. (also speaking as a chinese-american) | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 20 2019 10:45 Alejandrisha wrote: that rottie says this has anything to racism is fucking insulting He brought up racism in the context of people mentioning Silky/Coffee/etc, and saying that it wasn't surprising Macsed would matchfix due to also being Chinese. Which sounds pretty racist to me. Prime got busted in the 2015 matchfixing scandal but nobody is accusing Maru. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On March 20 2019 11:55 stephenrau wrote: Did he so much as say that? I found his entire long winded defense of excuses so ridiculous I couldn't be bothered to watch completely. It is sad too, because he was honestly pretty much the only SC2 streamer I watch these days, and now I question his logic among other things. It's gone from me watching his stream as much as I can (him being one of my favorite Twitch options) to not sure how I can watch anymore, since I can't trust his judgements. I haven't made a TL post since 2012, and this situation and the absolutely ludicrous defense a few spammers continue to make here has got me to post again. (also speaking as a chinese-american) Someone mentioned that he was close to MacSed so I think it's natural that he'll try to defend him, however bad the defense was. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
If MK cannot see a sunken in his own base then macsed can lose to a diamond. | ||
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Penev
28500 Posts
On March 20 2019 06:31 opisska wrote: Yeah guys, sorry to interrupt your circlejerk, but I just watched Maru vs. Scarlett g1. If you want to condemn people for willingly throwing games, where is the petition to ban Maru from competitive esports? Or is he too beloved, unlike a random Chinese guy and that's it? Indeed looking at the game(s) isn't the most useful when regarding whether match fixing took place. The OP isn't about analyzing the game either. It's about betting line movement and some specifics surrounding it. The Maru - Scarlett match didn't have any of this. Amazing you actually managed to disrupt the circlejerk, props. :p | ||
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HsDLTitich
Italy830 Posts
"Those errors can happen in professional starcraft" "Ye but you don't have to look at the game, look at the betting lines!" "Pinnacle says there's nothing wrong with them" "LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU" Can't believe this thread is even still open, you guys are throwing baseless accusations because someone lost a bet and clearly has an axe to grind | ||
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Penev
28500 Posts
On March 20 2019 21:59 HsDLTitich wrote: People still refusing to accept that Pinnacle didn't find anything wrong/suspicious about the betting lines... "Those errors can happen in professional starcraft" "Ye but you don't have to look at the game, look at the betting lines!" "Pinnacle says there's nothing wrong with them" "LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU" Can't believe this thread is even still open, you guys are throwing baseless accusations because someone lost a bet and clearly has an axe to grind People have seen Pinnacle's statement and commented on it. Here's one: On March 20 2019 03:19 BigFan wrote: From my perspective, Pinnacle's message to wax was mostly a blanket statement. As for WESG, there hasn't been any mention of an investigation . The post by VanCaspel seems to imply that the situation is being handled well, not that there's an investigation going on. In other words, this can be interpreted as WESG is proceeding and obviously that was the case if MacSed helped with the casting. It doesn't in any way imply that he has been cleared assuming that they would end up doing an investigation. It appears it's you who is LALALA-ing. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
If i understand the betting site checked it out says it isnt fixing, tourney organizers/ law enforcement dont have an issue with it or didnt deem necessary to launch an investigation (?). It's a shame than there isnt any official word, some facts that are not available to the public that played a role in the decision to clear him / not investigate it further, but alas... Not a very satisfying conclusion, but it is what it is. I would have preferred an official announcement by WESG or someone, but as far as i'm concerned the matter is finished, or at least swept under the rug (until further notice anyways) | ||
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Penev
28500 Posts
On March 20 2019 22:24 Geo.Rion wrote: I said it before, if the official ruling is that he dindt do it, or there is no reason to investigate, then that's that. If i understand the betting site checked it out says it isnt fixing, tourney organizers/ law enforcement dont have an issue with it or didnt deem necessary to launch an investigation (?). It's a shame than there isnt any official word, some facts that are not available to the public that played a role in the decision to clear him / not investigate it further, but alas... Not a very satisfying conclusion, but it is what it is. I would have preferred an official announcement by WESG or someone, but as far as i'm concerned the matter is finished, or at least swept under the rug (until further notice anyways) That's the disappointing thing, to me at least. The evidence as shown in the OP did warrant an investigation but it looks like there never was one. Under the rug it is I guess. | ||
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On March 20 2019 22:21 Penev wrote: People have seen Pinnacle's statement and commented on it. Here's one: It appears it's you who is LALALA-ing. Yep. People aren't giving the evidence provided so far a good look and are taking blanket statements or lack of at face value. This is pretty sad for the Starcraft II scene imo because this kind of stuff will ruin it in the long run. But whatever, I didn't expect much from WESG personally. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
On March 20 2019 22:24 Geo.Rion wrote: If i understand the betting site checked it out says it isnt fixing Yes. Also, Pinnacle did find suspicious betting for a CSGO match between 5POWER vs ENZO at WESG and did refund the betting for that match: So Pinnacle deemed the betting to be suspicious enough for CSGO at WESG to issue the refund, but concluded there was nothing suspicious about MacSed's match. | ||
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Penev
28500 Posts
On March 20 2019 23:28 xelnaga_empire wrote: Yes. Also, Pinnacle did find suspicious betting for a CSGO match between 5POWER vs ENZO at WESG and did refund the betting for that match: + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq9qkyDpz7M&feature=youtu.be&t=2917 So Pinnacle deemed the betting to be suspicious enough for CSGO at WESG to issue the refund, but concluded there was nothing suspicious about MacSed's match. It was pointed out several times that that doesn't say anything, here's an example: On March 13 2019 14:49 Waxangel wrote: I emailed Pinnacle regarding the bet, and I was told "Please be advised that as per investigation department, we did not find anything suspicious on the said match." in response. Given that there have been past suspicious line-movements that warranted cancellation from Pinnacle, and others that were allowed to stand, I can't say it sheds much more light on the situation. I think many people accept betting lines as circumstantial evidence, but it's a tough boundary to cross in terms of calling it CONCLUSIVE evidence. You can't say it's just because of lack of knowledge regarding how gambling works—fans would be justified in wanting the highest threshold of proof in what is effectively StarCraft esports' only capital crime. In this case it's possible this bet was too low volume for the automatic system to trigger while the CSGO one wasn't, just to name one possibility. It has happened many times pinnacle didn't react to suspicious betting lines, them not catching this instance simply isn't proof of anything. | ||
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