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On March 14 2019 11:57 jy_9876543210 wrote:
Macsed's response:
"说下当时情况吧，第一盘打完我觉得这个人很菜，当然所有人都和我这么说，我也觉得他很菜，然后第二盘才会选择一个低保rush因为我觉得只要过去把他门口的兵营打了就能赢，但是我过去看到他家里有个兵营没开气我以为他要开2矿，我就封了他得气，一旦封了他拿什么打我低保？可我万万没想到他这个战术是rail教他的，因为在职业内战里面这种战术是不成立的，所以我就没多想。打完这场比赛rail跑过来疯狂炫耀说是我教的，因为他知道我会觉得他是菜鸟肯定会想快点结束，然后就家里一个兵营外面3个兵营来骗我。果真我被骗到了，当时被骗到了乱导致各种失误，但是我认为就算不失误这一盘我也赢不了，因为我家里已经挡不住了，他只要在外面开个基地农民传出来也是随便赢。哎都怪我，太丢人了"
My translation:
"The situation was, after the first map I thought this guy is weak, of course that's also what everyone's been telling me, and I felt the same. So on the second map I decided to cannon rush since I thought I could win by destroying the gateway in his base, but when I saw his base, there's a gateway but no gas, so I thought he's gonna expand, and I blocked his gas, so he can't stop my cannon rush. But what I didn't know was that it's rail who taught him this strategy, because he knew that I would try to finish this game quickly since I thought my opponent is weak, and he tricked me by one gateway in main base and 3 proxies outside. That totally got me, and resulted in a lot of mistakes from me. But I think even if I didn't make those mistakes, I still wouldn't win that map, since I couldn't defend my base, he could just make another base and recall the probes. It's my fault, this is an embarrassing game." |
On March 21 2019 13:53 Popkiller wrote:
everyone should keep in mind that this is not a trial and we are not a jury. Nothing we say here is going to affect Macsed's life, or anyone else's.
it's just a discussion. So, to say we think Macsed is guilty carries no weight, his career is fine. If there are any repercussions it won't be because of a TL thread, it will be because of an independent investigation.
so, in the name of discussion, I'll say that if you think a lot of money being bet on Seventy91 taking a map off Macsed (and no one else, by the way), and then Macsed playing one of the worst games imaginable (in between two much higher caliber games) is a coincidence...
I'll put it another way, if you were forced to make your own bet, of say $100,000, on whether or not Macsed threw that map, and you bet he didn't, you're out of your mind.
Sangho disagrees with you. And lots of progamer where their game was deemed suspicious by community.
https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/131156-interview-sangho-on-match-fixing
Unless there are updates from authority, I don't think this thread should stay open. This has turned into witch hunt.
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On March 21 2019 14:19 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 12:51 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:31 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 01:20 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:00 Xophy wrote:On March 21 2019 00:39 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 00:06 Penev wrote:On March 20 2019 23:28 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 20 2019 22:24 Geo.Rion wrote:
If i understand the betting site checked it out says it isnt fixing Yes. Also, Pinnacle did find suspicious betting for a CSGO match between 5POWER vs ENZO at WESG and did refund the betting for that match: + Show Spoiler +So Pinnacle deemed the betting to be suspicious enough for CSGO at WESG to issue the refund, but concluded there was nothing suspicious about MacSed's match. It was pointed out several times that that doesn't say anything, here's an example: On March 13 2019 14:49 Waxangel wrote:I emailed Pinnacle regarding the bet, and I was told "Please be advised that as per investigation department, we did not find anything suspicious on the said match." in response. Given that there have been past suspicious line-movements that warranted cancellation from Pinnacle, and others that were allowed to stand, I can't say it sheds much more light on the situation. On March 13 2019 14:40 Popkiller wrote:
same thing every time, I have trouble understanding why people discard the betting patterns... do they really think one guy bet thousands of dollars on a long shot and happened to get lucky?
I think many people accept betting lines as circumstantial evidence, but it's a tough boundary to cross in terms of calling it CONCLUSIVE evidence. You can't say it's just because of lack of knowledge regarding how gambling works—fans would be justified in wanting the highest threshold of proof in what is effectively StarCraft esports' only capital crime. In this case it's possible this bet was too low volume for the automatic system to trigger while the CSGO one wasn't, just to name one possibility. It has happened many times pinnacle didn't react to suspicious betting lines, them not catching this instance simply isn't proof of anything. We are running in circles again. WaxAngel e-mailed Pinnacle and they said they looked into it with their investigation department. Actually, you are not completely honest here. What they told to WaxAngel was "Please be advised that as per investigation department, we did not find anything suspicious on the said match.". Now, nowhere do they say that they actually investigated anything or looked into it. The only thing they say is that they did not find anything suspicious which would also be true if they did not investigate anything at all but rather trusted their algorithms! Edit: Fixed for typo See, we are wasting time trying to figure out how Pinnacle operates internally and what they did or didn't do as part of their investigation. Unless a Pinnacle employee comes out and tells us exactly what they did and didn't do for the MacSed case, Pinnacle is a black box to us. And if Pinnacle is a black box to us, then they found no fault with the MacSed match Your logic is flawed. Pinnacle being a “black box” is not evidence of no wrongdoing. Your entire argument based on this statement is not valid. What IS evidence of wrongdoing is the betting line. Unless you, or anyone else can give me a logical reason as to why the betting line changed for something other than match fixing, then I suggest we accept that we need a real investigation. What investigation? Who will do it? WESG is silent and they had a chance to look at it already. You think the Chinese police will investigate after Pinnacle said there was nothing out of the ordinary with the betting? Good luck because I can tell you, that will never happen. Because Pinnacle said there was no suspicious betting in MacSed's game, the chance that the Chinese police will investigate is zero. Now if WESG comes out and says there was suspicious actions by MacSed, and/or Pinnacle reverses their stance and says there was suspicious betting, then it may be possible for the Chinese authorities to investigate. Until then, I doubt there will be a real investigation. But hey, you are free to fly to China to investigate. You can let the SC2 community know the result of your investigation after you fly to China. Good luck to you if you do! Pinnacle is based in the Netherlands. They have Laws there that protect gamblers. Match fixing breaks those Laws. Law enforcement there should investigate. On the SC2 side of things, Blizzard is the only relevant organization for an investigation. It’s in there best interest to root out anything that takes away from the integrity of the game. They should look into how the tournament was run, see if there’s any discrepancies, ask questions. You know, just some basic investigation stuff. They recently had to do this with Hearthstone with win trading aligations (and only after some strong public pressure I might add). They came to the conclusion that it happened, and responded accordingly.
Oh good. Get Pinnacle to send us more details of how they determined MacSed's match didn't have suspicious betting that warranted a refund. I'm sure they will issue a second statement. You go do that! /s
Yes, get Blizzard to investigate this too! You go do that! /s
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On March 21 2019 13:34 feardragon wrote:
My point was not “I think this happened”. It was, before we publicly condemn a player and end a 10+ year career and livlihood of a player, let’s wait until we hear their side of the story. I said multiple times it was weird and suspicious but that I believe in waiting to hear all sides because public opinion is not something easily reversed. I gave an off example of something unlikely but possible. Why are so many people taking this out of context?
Thank you feardragon. Good to see reasonable responses like this. Some of the behavior in this thread is absurd.
Like I said before, some people are so emotionally invested in seeing that MacSed is guilty, they are now throwing their pitchforks at Rotti because Rotti dared to share his opinion. That is absurd behavior and shows a lack of maturity.
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On March 21 2019 15:06 Shana wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 13:53 Popkiller wrote:
everyone should keep in mind that this is not a trial and we are not a jury. Nothing we say here is going to affect Macsed's life, or anyone else's.
it's just a discussion. So, to say we think Macsed is guilty carries no weight, his career is fine. If there are any repercussions it won't be because of a TL thread, it will be because of an independent investigation.
so, in the name of discussion, I'll say that if you think a lot of money being bet on Seventy91 taking a map off Macsed (and no one else, by the way), and then Macsed playing one of the worst games imaginable (in between two much higher caliber games) is a coincidence...
I'll put it another way, if you were forced to make your own bet, of say $100,000, on whether or not Macsed threw that map, and you bet he didn't, you're out of your mind. Sangho disagrees with you. And lots of progamer where their game was deemed suspicious by community. https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/131156-interview-sangho-on-match-fixingUnless there are updates from authority, I don't think this thread should stay open. This has turned into witch hunt.
I’ll agree with you that people in this thread have accused Macsed of throwing the game based on there opinion of the replay and find him guilty. I personally think that this is not conducive for a fair hearing.
Would you agree with me that the evidence presented deserves an investigation? And that at this point, the only way a investigation will happen is if the community presses for one?
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On March 21 2019 15:06 Shana wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 13:53 Popkiller wrote:
everyone should keep in mind that this is not a trial and we are not a jury. Nothing we say here is going to affect Macsed's life, or anyone else's.
it's just a discussion. So, to say we think Macsed is guilty carries no weight, his career is fine. If there are any repercussions it won't be because of a TL thread, it will be because of an independent investigation.
so, in the name of discussion, I'll say that if you think a lot of money being bet on Seventy91 taking a map off Macsed (and no one else, by the way), and then Macsed playing one of the worst games imaginable (in between two much higher caliber games) is a coincidence...
I'll put it another way, if you were forced to make your own bet, of say $100,000, on whether or not Macsed threw that map, and you bet he didn't, you're out of your mind. Sangho disagrees with you. And lots of progamer where their game was deemed suspicious by community. https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/131156-interview-sangho-on-match-fixingUnless there are updates from authority, I don't think this thread should stay open. This has turned into witch hunt.
I'm not hunting. Not saying Macsed should be banned from anything. If I were a tournament organizer, I wouldn't bar him from the tournament, not based on this information alone.
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On March 21 2019 15:20 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 14:19 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 12:51 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:31 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 01:20 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:00 Xophy wrote:On March 21 2019 00:39 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 00:06 Penev wrote:On March 20 2019 23:28 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 20 2019 22:24 Geo.Rion wrote:
If i understand the betting site checked it out says it isnt fixing Yes. Also, Pinnacle did find suspicious betting for a CSGO match between 5POWER vs ENZO at WESG and did refund the betting for that match: + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq9qkyDpz7M&feature=youtu.be&t=2917 So Pinnacle deemed the betting to be suspicious enough for CSGO at WESG to issue the refund, but concluded there was nothing suspicious about MacSed's match. It was pointed out several times that that doesn't say anything, here's an example: On March 13 2019 14:49 Waxangel wrote:I emailed Pinnacle regarding the bet, and I was told "Please be advised that as per investigation department, we did not find anything suspicious on the said match." in response. Given that there have been past suspicious line-movements that warranted cancellation from Pinnacle, and others that were allowed to stand, I can't say it sheds much more light on the situation. On March 13 2019 14:40 Popkiller wrote:
same thing every time, I have trouble understanding why people discard the betting patterns... do they really think one guy bet thousands of dollars on a long shot and happened to get lucky?
I think many people accept betting lines as circumstantial evidence, but it's a tough boundary to cross in terms of calling it CONCLUSIVE evidence. You can't say it's just because of lack of knowledge regarding how gambling works—fans would be justified in wanting the highest threshold of proof in what is effectively StarCraft esports' only capital crime. In this case it's possible this bet was too low volume for the automatic system to trigger while the CSGO one wasn't, just to name one possibility. It has happened many times pinnacle didn't react to suspicious betting lines, them not catching this instance simply isn't proof of anything. We are running in circles again. WaxAngel e-mailed Pinnacle and they said they looked into it with their investigation department. Actually, you are not completely honest here. What they told to WaxAngel was "Please be advised that as per investigation department, we did not find anything suspicious on the said match.". Now, nowhere do they say that they actually investigated anything or looked into it. The only thing they say is that they did not find anything suspicious which would also be true if they did not investigate anything at all but rather trusted their algorithms! Edit: Fixed for typo See, we are wasting time trying to figure out how Pinnacle operates internally and what they did or didn't do as part of their investigation. Unless a Pinnacle employee comes out and tells us exactly what they did and didn't do for the MacSed case, Pinnacle is a black box to us. And if Pinnacle is a black box to us, then they found no fault with the MacSed match Your logic is flawed. Pinnacle being a “black box” is not evidence of no wrongdoing. Your entire argument based on this statement is not valid. What IS evidence of wrongdoing is the betting line. Unless you, or anyone else can give me a logical reason as to why the betting line changed for something other than match fixing, then I suggest we accept that we need a real investigation. What investigation? Who will do it? WESG is silent and they had a chance to look at it already. You think the Chinese police will investigate after Pinnacle said there was nothing out of the ordinary with the betting? Good luck because I can tell you, that will never happen. Because Pinnacle said there was no suspicious betting in MacSed's game, the chance that the Chinese police will investigate is zero. Now if WESG comes out and says there was suspicious actions by MacSed, and/or Pinnacle reverses their stance and says there was suspicious betting, then it may be possible for the Chinese authorities to investigate. Until then, I doubt there will be a real investigation. But hey, you are free to fly to China to investigate. You can let the SC2 community know the result of your investigation after you fly to China. Good luck to you if you do! Pinnacle is based in the Netherlands. They have Laws there that protect gamblers. Match fixing breaks those Laws. Law enforcement there should investigate. On the SC2 side of things, Blizzard is the only relevant organization for an investigation. It’s in there best interest to root out anything that takes away from the integrity of the game. They should look into how the tournament was run, see if there’s any discrepancies, ask questions. You know, just some basic investigation stuff. They recently had to do this with Hearthstone with win trading aligations (and only after some strong public pressure I might add). They came to the conclusion that it happened, and responded accordingly. Oh good. Get Pinnacle to send us more details of how they determined MacSed's match didn't have suspicious betting that warranted a refund. I'm sure they will issue a second statement. You go do that! /s Yes, get Blizzard to investigate this too! You go do that! /s
Yes, that’s what I’m doing now. I’m asking for an investigation. Don’t you want Blizzard/Pinnacle/relevant authorities to look into this? Shouldn’t we expect that when the smoke alarm goes off, we check to see if there is a fire?
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 21 2019 15:48 Popkiller wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 15:06 Shana wrote:On March 21 2019 13:53 Popkiller wrote:
everyone should keep in mind that this is not a trial and we are not a jury. Nothing we say here is going to affect Macsed's life, or anyone else's.
it's just a discussion. So, to say we think Macsed is guilty carries no weight, his career is fine. If there are any repercussions it won't be because of a TL thread, it will be because of an independent investigation.
so, in the name of discussion, I'll say that if you think a lot of money being bet on Seventy91 taking a map off Macsed (and no one else, by the way), and then Macsed playing one of the worst games imaginable (in between two much higher caliber games) is a coincidence...
I'll put it another way, if you were forced to make your own bet, of say $100,000, on whether or not Macsed threw that map, and you bet he didn't, you're out of your mind. Sangho disagrees with you. And lots of progamer where their game was deemed suspicious by community. https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/131156-interview-sangho-on-match-fixingUnless there are updates from authority, I don't think this thread should stay open. This has turned into witch hunt. I'm not hunting. Not saying Macsed should be banned from anything. If I were a tournament organizer, I wouldn't bar him from the tournament, not based on this information alone.
Yeah, you're doing nothing wrong, just keeping the fire for to burn the witch,but you're not the one throwing the witch into the fire nor the one really hunting. How could you, you're just typing words on internwebz, it's fine, no harm can be done, right?
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 21 2019 15:49 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 15:20 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 14:19 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 12:51 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:31 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 01:20 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:00 Xophy wrote:On March 21 2019 00:39 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 00:06 Penev wrote:On March 20 2019 23:28 xelnaga_empire wrote:[quote] Yes. Also, Pinnacle did find suspicious betting for a CSGO match between 5POWER vs ENZO at WESG and did refund the betting for that match: + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq9qkyDpz7M&feature=youtu.be&t=2917 So Pinnacle deemed the betting to be suspicious enough for CSGO at WESG to issue the refund, but concluded there was nothing suspicious about MacSed's match. It was pointed out several times that that doesn't say anything, here's an example: On March 13 2019 14:49 Waxangel wrote:
I emailed Pinnacle regarding the bet, and I was told "Please be advised that as per investigation department, we did not find anything suspicious on the said match." in response.
Given that there have been past suspicious line-movements that warranted cancellation from Pinnacle, and others that were allowed to stand, I can't say it sheds much more light on the situation.
[quote]
I think many people accept betting lines as circumstantial evidence, but it's a tough boundary to cross in terms of calling it CONCLUSIVE evidence. You can't say it's just because of lack of knowledge regarding how gambling works—fans would be justified in wanting the highest threshold of proof in what is effectively StarCraft esports' only capital crime.
In this case it's possible this bet was too low volume for the automatic system to trigger while the CSGO one wasn't, just to name one possibility. It has happened many times pinnacle didn't react to suspicious betting lines, them not catching this instance simply isn't proof of anything. We are running in circles again. WaxAngel e-mailed Pinnacle and they said they looked into it with their investigation department. Actually, you are not completely honest here. What they told to WaxAngel was "Please be advised that as per investigation department, we did not find anything suspicious on the said match.". Now, nowhere do they say that they actually investigated anything or looked into it. The only thing they say is that they did not find anything suspicious which would also be true if they did not investigate anything at all but rather trusted their algorithms! Edit: Fixed for typo See, we are wasting time trying to figure out how Pinnacle operates internally and what they did or didn't do as part of their investigation. Unless a Pinnacle employee comes out and tells us exactly what they did and didn't do for the MacSed case, Pinnacle is a black box to us. And if Pinnacle is a black box to us, then they found no fault with the MacSed match Your logic is flawed. Pinnacle being a “black box” is not evidence of no wrongdoing. Your entire argument based on this statement is not valid. What IS evidence of wrongdoing is the betting line. Unless you, or anyone else can give me a logical reason as to why the betting line changed for something other than match fixing, then I suggest we accept that we need a real investigation. What investigation? Who will do it? WESG is silent and they had a chance to look at it already. You think the Chinese police will investigate after Pinnacle said there was nothing out of the ordinary with the betting? Good luck because I can tell you, that will never happen. Because Pinnacle said there was no suspicious betting in MacSed's game, the chance that the Chinese police will investigate is zero. Now if WESG comes out and says there was suspicious actions by MacSed, and/or Pinnacle reverses their stance and says there was suspicious betting, then it may be possible for the Chinese authorities to investigate. Until then, I doubt there will be a real investigation. But hey, you are free to fly to China to investigate. You can let the SC2 community know the result of your investigation after you fly to China. Good luck to you if you do! Pinnacle is based in the Netherlands. They have Laws there that protect gamblers. Match fixing breaks those Laws. Law enforcement there should investigate. On the SC2 side of things, Blizzard is the only relevant organization for an investigation. It’s in there best interest to root out anything that takes away from the integrity of the game. They should look into how the tournament was run, see if there’s any discrepancies, ask questions. You know, just some basic investigation stuff. They recently had to do this with Hearthstone with win trading aligations (and only after some strong public pressure I might add). They came to the conclusion that it happened, and responded accordingly. Oh good. Get Pinnacle to send us more details of how they determined MacSed's match didn't have suspicious betting that warranted a refund. I'm sure they will issue a second statement. You go do that! /s Yes, get Blizzard to investigate this too! You go do that! /s Yes, that’s what I’m doing now. I’m asking for an investigation. Don’t you want Blizzard/Pinnacle/relevant authorities to look into this? Shouldn’t we expect that when the smoke alarm goes off, we check to see if there is a fire?
Then ask the damn officials. Do you realize you're here on some random internet forum? And as far as we know the fucking Pinnacle DID investigation. FFS at least remove the PInnacle from your post, it;s becoming pathetic.
Ask the authorities. If you cannot ask yourself for whatever reasons ask someone in that country to file it so the police has to start the investigation. This is just forum on the interwebz, you can post here for eternity and guess what, no investigation will be done. SURPRISE!
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On March 21 2019 15:41 hiro protagonist wrote:
Would you agree with me that the evidence presented deserves an investigation? And that at this point, the only way a investigation will happen is if the community presses for one?
And Pinnacle already responded. Who do you want to do the investigation now? Didn't you mention you wanted Blizzard to investigate this?
Do you realize that WESG is not a WCS event? Maybe you should understand this:
1. WESG is not a WCS event. There are no points given towards Blizzcon.
2. Pinnacle said there was no suspicious betting that warranted a refund on the bets.
What are the chances that Blizzard will investigate this? Do you see that you are running into a brick wall at this point?
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On March 21 2019 16:44 deacon.frost wrote:
Ask the authorities. If you cannot ask yourself for whatever reasons ask someone in that country to file it so the police has to start the investigation. This is just forum on the interwebz, you can post here for eternity and guess what, no investigation will be done. SURPRISE!
Exactly! Well said!
Some people are so delusional. Pinnacle already said there was no suspicious betting and no refunds would be offered. That lowers the chance of an investigation drastically.
The people that are still out with a pitchfork for MacSed's head are comical at this point. It's absurd behavior and it's rather embarrassing.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 21 2019 16:51 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 15:41 hiro protagonist wrote:
Would you agree with me that the evidence presented deserves an investigation? And that at this point, the only way a investigation will happen is if the community presses for one?
And Pinnacle already responded. Who do you want to do the investigation now? Didn't you mention you wanted Blizzard to investigate this? Do you realize that WESG is not a WCS event? Maybe you should understand this: 1. WESG is not a WCS event. There are no points given towards Blizzcon. 2. Pinnacle said there was no suspicious betting that warranted a refund on the bets. What are the chances that Blizzard will investigate this? Do you see that you are running into a brick wall at this point?
MacSed is in the WCS system so he has to obide the rules 24/7 which forbid match fixing, or at least they should  So Blizard have the incentive to do the investigation, but what will be the course of action?
1) Hey, Pinnacle, anything suspicious? FOR THE THOUSAND TIME AGAIN, NO, NO, LEAVE US ALONE!@#!#$!$!
2) Hey, WESG, anything suspicious? Nope.
3) Hey, intern, find me a Chinese translator and check MacSed's PMs!
So unless MacSed admitted this via chat in the SC2 itself Blizzard won't have more information than we currently have.
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On March 21 2019 17:00 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 16:51 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 15:41 hiro protagonist wrote:
Would you agree with me that the evidence presented deserves an investigation? And that at this point, the only way a investigation will happen is if the community presses for one?
And Pinnacle already responded. Who do you want to do the investigation now? Didn't you mention you wanted Blizzard to investigate this? Do you realize that WESG is not a WCS event? Maybe you should understand this: 1. WESG is not a WCS event. There are no points given towards Blizzcon. 2. Pinnacle said there was no suspicious betting that warranted a refund on the bets. What are the chances that Blizzard will investigate this? Do you see that you are running into a brick wall at this point? MacSed is in the WCS system so he has to obide the rules 24/7 which forbid match fixing, or at least they should So Blizard have the incentive to do the investigation, but what will be the course of action? 1) Hey, Pinnacle, anything suspicious? FOR THE THOUSAND TIME AGAIN, NO, NO, LEAVE US ALONE!@#!#$!$! 2) Hey, WESG, anything suspicious? Nope. 3) Hey, intern, find me a Chinese translator and check MacSed's PMs! So unless MacSed admitted this via chat in the SC2 itself Blizzard won't have more information than we currently have.
Yup, pretty much this. When Pinnacle said there was no suspicious betting that warranted a refund of the bets, and unless WESG comes out with a statement that there was match fixing by MacSed, that is more or less, the end of the line.
I don't understand why people don't understand this. Actually, never mind, I do. These people are so emotionally invested in seeing MacSed guilty, that they won't give up.
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On March 21 2019 15:29 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 13:34 feardragon wrote:
My point was not “I think this happened”. It was, before we publicly condemn a player and end a 10+ year career and livlihood of a player, let’s wait until we hear their side of the story. I said multiple times it was weird and suspicious but that I believe in waiting to hear all sides because public opinion is not something easily reversed. I gave an off example of something unlikely but possible. Why are so many people taking this out of context? Thank you feardragon. Good to see reasonable responses like this. Some of the behavior in this thread is absurd. Like I said before, some people are so emotionally invested in seeing that MacSed is guilty, they are now throwing their pitchforks at Rotti because Rotti dared to share his opinion. That is absurd behavior and shows a lack of maturity.
Very much resembles the immature behavior of one particular poster throwing his pitchfork in the face of OP because he dared to share his opinion and bring this important topic into the light.
On March 21 2019 16:44 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 15:48 Popkiller wrote:On March 21 2019 15:06 Shana wrote:On March 21 2019 13:53 Popkiller wrote:
everyone should keep in mind that this is not a trial and we are not a jury. Nothing we say here is going to affect Macsed's life, or anyone else's.
it's just a discussion. So, to say we think Macsed is guilty carries no weight, his career is fine. If there are any repercussions it won't be because of a TL thread, it will be because of an independent investigation.
so, in the name of discussion, I'll say that if you think a lot of money being bet on Seventy91 taking a map off Macsed (and no one else, by the way), and then Macsed playing one of the worst games imaginable (in between two much higher caliber games) is a coincidence...
I'll put it another way, if you were forced to make your own bet, of say $100,000, on whether or not Macsed threw that map, and you bet he didn't, you're out of your mind. Sangho disagrees with you. And lots of progamer where their game was deemed suspicious by community. https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/131156-interview-sangho-on-match-fixingUnless there are updates from authority, I don't think this thread should stay open. This has turned into witch hunt. I'm not hunting. Not saying Macsed should be banned from anything. If I were a tournament organizer, I wouldn't bar him from the tournament, not based on this information alone. Yeah, you're doing nothing wrong, just keeping the fire for to burn the witch,but you're not the one throwing the witch into the fire nor the one really hunting. How could you, you're just typing words on internwebz, it's fine, no harm can be done, right? + Show Spoiler +Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 15:49 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 15:20 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 14:19 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 12:51 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:31 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 01:20 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:00 Xophy wrote:On March 21 2019 00:39 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 00:06 Penev wrote:
[quote]
It was pointed out several times that that doesn't say anything, here's an example:
[quote]
In this case it's possible this bet was too low volume for the automatic system to trigger while the CSGO one wasn't, just to name one possibility. It has happened many times pinnacle didn't react to suspicious betting lines, them not catching this instance simply isn't proof of anything. We are running in circles again. WaxAngel e-mailed Pinnacle and they said they looked into it with their investigation department. Actually, you are not completely honest here. What they told to WaxAngel was "Please be advised that as per investigation department, we did not find anything suspicious on the said match.". Now, nowhere do they say that they actually investigated anything or looked into it. The only thing they say is that they did not find anything suspicious which would also be true if they did not investigate anything at all but rather trusted their algorithms! Edit: Fixed for typo See, we are wasting time trying to figure out how Pinnacle operates internally and what they did or didn't do as part of their investigation. Unless a Pinnacle employee comes out and tells us exactly what they did and didn't do for the MacSed case, Pinnacle is a black box to us. And if Pinnacle is a black box to us, then they found no fault with the MacSed match Your logic is flawed. Pinnacle being a “black box” is not evidence of no wrongdoing. Your entire argument based on this statement is not valid. What IS evidence of wrongdoing is the betting line. Unless you, or anyone else can give me a logical reason as to why the betting line changed for something other than match fixing, then I suggest we accept that we need a real investigation. What investigation? Who will do it? WESG is silent and they had a chance to look at it already. You think the Chinese police will investigate after Pinnacle said there was nothing out of the ordinary with the betting? Good luck because I can tell you, that will never happen. Because Pinnacle said there was no suspicious betting in MacSed's game, the chance that the Chinese police will investigate is zero. Now if WESG comes out and says there was suspicious actions by MacSed, and/or Pinnacle reverses their stance and says there was suspicious betting, then it may be possible for the Chinese authorities to investigate. Until then, I doubt there will be a real investigation. But hey, you are free to fly to China to investigate. You can let the SC2 community know the result of your investigation after you fly to China. Good luck to you if you do! Pinnacle is based in the Netherlands. They have Laws there that protect gamblers. Match fixing breaks those Laws. Law enforcement there should investigate. On the SC2 side of things, Blizzard is the only relevant organization for an investigation. It’s in there best interest to root out anything that takes away from the integrity of the game. They should look into how the tournament was run, see if there’s any discrepancies, ask questions. You know, just some basic investigation stuff. They recently had to do this with Hearthstone with win trading aligations (and only after some strong public pressure I might add). They came to the conclusion that it happened, and responded accordingly. Oh good. Get Pinnacle to send us more details of how they determined MacSed's match didn't have suspicious betting that warranted a refund. I'm sure they will issue a second statement. You go do that! /s Yes, get Blizzard to investigate this too! You go do that! /s Yes, that’s what I’m doing now. I’m asking for an investigation. Don’t you want Blizzard/Pinnacle/relevant authorities to look into this? Shouldn’t we expect that when the smoke alarm goes off, we check to see if there is a fire? Then ask the damn officials. Do you realize you're here on some random internet forum? And as far as we know the fucking Pinnacle DID investigation. FFS at least remove the PInnacle from your post, it;s becoming pathetic. Ask the authorities. If you cannot ask yourself for whatever reasons ask someone in that country to file it so the police has to start the investigation. This is just forum on the interwebz, you can post here for eternity and guess what, no investigation will be done. SURPRISE!
Of course what we say can have effects on peoples lifes, Shanas link was a great read that many that have posted here should read if you haven't. However Popkiller is not wrong in stating that based on the information we do have Macsed is likely guilty, you can disagree but that doesn't change anything. You think I'm a fool for posting my opinion and I think you're a fool if you actually believe that he is probably not guilty.
In regards to your attack on hiro, how is it is his responsibility to contact the authorities. Maybe I should post the same message back to you huh? Since you seem to think it so important that someone contacts the police for an investigation, you do it yourself!
The most critical thing you do miss there is that all of us here could contact the authorities and ask them to look into this but you know what nothing would happen. I live in sweden so I don't "really" know about the police entity in other countries but I doubt they are leagues and bounds better than what we have here and let me tell you that there are a lot of important things that should be investigated that is not. This tiny issue would never be prioritized by the police just because all of us calls them. You know what could make them look into it? If bigger corporations/organizations starts making their voices heard.
We have no power here and nothing we do would lead to a "proper" investigation unless Blizzard/pinnacle/WESG pressure the authorities and why would they do that you ask? Because we pressure them as a community.
The sad part is I think you already realized this but you don't really care if an investigation is made you just wants us that are of a different opinion to shut up, to silence us. That is more pathetic than anything hiro posted.
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Regardless of the actual truth, it's somewhat interesting that match fixing cannot get more obvious than this, barring a police investigation or confession by the player. If MacSed isn't caught in this almost perfect storm of circumstances as a match fixer, then good luck catching anyone ever again in similar cases. I hope he's innocent :D.
To me, if nothing else comes out of it, we should at least draw the lesson that there shouldn't be any betting allowed on such a game. Like, don't allow people to bet on 2-1 outcomes of a semi-pro vs no-namer in a low-profile round of a tournament, it's just kicking Pandora's box wide open. Also, if you are a better, you'd be foolish to place bets like those following this event :D.
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On March 21 2019 17:14 Shuffleblade wrote:
Very much resembles the immature behavior of one particular poster throwing his pitchfork in the face of OP because he dared to share his opinion and bring this important topic into the light.
The same OP who refuses to update the first post in this thread with new information about Pinnacle's statement?
You sure bet I am throwing the pitchfork at PowerFoe.
If the OP or PowerFoe was impartial to this, he/she would update the first post and add the new information from Pinnacle.
But PowerFoe refuses to do this, which is unfair to MacSed. Do you realize in the newspaper and media industry, reputable news organizations and journalists will update their article with new information that is pertinent to the original premise of the article, even if that information contradticts the premise of that article?
If you read a few pages back, PowerFoe is aware of the new information from Pinnacle and deliberately won't update the original post. PowerFoe has elected to take the "low road," as opposed to the "high road" taken by reputable journalists and news organizations around the world.
You see, I have nothing against PowerFoe posting this thread. The original allegations did deserve more of an investigation, especially from Pinnacle's side. But Pinnacle came out with their statement. And when Pinnacle came out with this information, PowerFoe should be impartial and update the post with new information that is relevant to this discussion.
I am glad that most reputable newspapers and journalists behave with a higher standard of integrity than PowerFoe.
Also, look at this comment from PowerFoe after Pinnacle made their statement:
- Pinnacle is not the only sportsbook that offered a spread for MacSed vs Seventy91. Some posters have indicated that there may be underground Chinese betting sites that may have traded this bet in higher volume than Pinnacle, and that Pinnacle only received comparatively fewer bets from information leaks. I believe this to be possible to likely.
Do you know what I call this? I call this moving the goal posts. Because Pinnacle didn't come out with information that further substantiated PowerFoe's claims, PowerFoe then decides to move the goal posts. That is sad, really sad.
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On March 21 2019 17:30 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 17:14 Shuffleblade wrote:
Very much resembles the immature behavior of one particular poster throwing his pitchfork in the face of OP because he dared to share his opinion and bring this important topic into the light.
The same OP who refuses to update the first post in this thread with new information about Pinnacle's statement? You sure bet I am throwing the pitchfork at PowerFoe. If the OP or PowerFoe was impartial to this, he/she would update the first post and add the new information from Pinnacle. But PowerFoe refuses to do this, which is unfair to MacSed. Do you realize in the newspaper and media industry, reputable news organizations and journalists will update their article with new information that is pertinent to the original premise of the article, even if that information contradticts the premise of that article? If you read a few pages back, PowerFoe is aware of the new information from Pinnacle and deliberately won't update the original post. PowerFoe has elected to take the "low road," as opposed to the "high road" taken by reputable journalists and news organizations around the world. You see, I have nothing against PowerFoe posting this thread. The original allegations did deserve more of an investigation, especially from Pinnacle's side. But Pinnacle came out with their statement. And when Pinnacle came out with this information, PowerFoe should be impartial and update the post with new information that is relevant to this discussion. I am glad that most reputable newspapers and journalists behave with a higher standard of integrity than PowerFoe. Also, look at this comment from PowerFoe after Pinnacle made their statement: Show nested quote +- Pinnacle is not the only sportsbook that offered a spread for MacSed vs Seventy91. Some posters have indicated that there may be underground Chinese betting sites that may have traded this bet in higher volume than Pinnacle, and that Pinnacle only received comparatively fewer bets from information leaks. I believe this to be possible to likely. Do you know what I call this? I call this moving the goal posts. Because Pinnacle didn't come out with information that further substantiated PowerFoe's claims, PowerFoe then decides to move the goal posts. That is sad, really sad.
You are wrong, and I as well as others have explained it to you multiple times, even staff have gone out of their way to try and make you understand.
Powerfoe is not a journalist, he doesn't get paid for posting this, yes people that work with and get paid for posting news can and are held to a different standard than a random TL poster. That is normal
Teamliquid staff have updated the OP with everything relevant (which has also been pointed out to you before), that is where the discussion ends.If you still do not understand re read this thread and you will hopefully get your answer.
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On March 21 2019 17:41 Shuffleblade wrote:
Powerfoe is not a journalist, he doesn't get paid for posting this, yes people that work with and get paid for posting news can and are held to a different standard than a random TL poster. That is normal
Great! We agree that PowerFoe has a lower standard of integrity than he/she could possibly have. At least we agree on this point!
On March 21 2019 17:41 Shuffleblade wrote:
Teamliquid staff have updated the OP with everything relevant (which has also been pointed out to you before), that is where the discussion ends.If you still do not understand re read this thread and you will hopefully get your answer.
Nope. I still don't see any update about Pinnacle's statement in the original post by TL or PowerFoe. Still waiting. <crickets...>
User was warned for this post.
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A moving your offensive probe(s) on a zealot, yikes. Not to mention the mineral float... or the initial pylon placement.
Late to the party but yeah that was definitely intentional.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 21 2019 17:14 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 15:29 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 13:34 feardragon wrote:
My point was not “I think this happened”. It was, before we publicly condemn a player and end a 10+ year career and livlihood of a player, let’s wait until we hear their side of the story. I said multiple times it was weird and suspicious but that I believe in waiting to hear all sides because public opinion is not something easily reversed. I gave an off example of something unlikely but possible. Why are so many people taking this out of context? Thank you feardragon. Good to see reasonable responses like this. Some of the behavior in this thread is absurd. Like I said before, some people are so emotionally invested in seeing that MacSed is guilty, they are now throwing their pitchforks at Rotti because Rotti dared to share his opinion. That is absurd behavior and shows a lack of maturity. Very much resembles the immature behavior of one particular poster throwing his pitchfork in the face of OP because he dared to share his opinion and bring this important topic into the light. Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 16:44 deacon.frost wrote:On March 21 2019 15:48 Popkiller wrote:On March 21 2019 15:06 Shana wrote:On March 21 2019 13:53 Popkiller wrote:
everyone should keep in mind that this is not a trial and we are not a jury. Nothing we say here is going to affect Macsed's life, or anyone else's.
it's just a discussion. So, to say we think Macsed is guilty carries no weight, his career is fine. If there are any repercussions it won't be because of a TL thread, it will be because of an independent investigation.
so, in the name of discussion, I'll say that if you think a lot of money being bet on Seventy91 taking a map off Macsed (and no one else, by the way), and then Macsed playing one of the worst games imaginable (in between two much higher caliber games) is a coincidence...
I'll put it another way, if you were forced to make your own bet, of say $100,000, on whether or not Macsed threw that map, and you bet he didn't, you're out of your mind. Sangho disagrees with you. And lots of progamer where their game was deemed suspicious by community. https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/131156-interview-sangho-on-match-fixingUnless there are updates from authority, I don't think this thread should stay open. This has turned into witch hunt. I'm not hunting. Not saying Macsed should be banned from anything. If I were a tournament organizer, I wouldn't bar him from the tournament, not based on this information alone. Yeah, you're doing nothing wrong, just keeping the fire for to burn the witch,but you're not the one throwing the witch into the fire nor the one really hunting. How could you, you're just typing words on internwebz, it's fine, no harm can be done, right? + Show Spoiler +On March 21 2019 15:49 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 15:20 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 14:19 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 12:51 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:31 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 01:20 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:00 Xophy wrote:On March 21 2019 00:39 xelnaga_empire wrote:
[quote]
We are running in circles again. WaxAngel e-mailed Pinnacle and they said they looked into it with their investigation department.
Actually, you are not completely honest here. What they told to WaxAngel was "Please be advised that as per investigation department, we did not find anything suspicious on the said match.". Now, nowhere do they say that they actually investigated anything or looked into it. The only thing they say is that they did not find anything suspicious which would also be true if they did not investigate anything at all but rather trusted their algorithms! Edit: Fixed for typo See, we are wasting time trying to figure out how Pinnacle operates internally and what they did or didn't do as part of their investigation. Unless a Pinnacle employee comes out and tells us exactly what they did and didn't do for the MacSed case, Pinnacle is a black box to us. And if Pinnacle is a black box to us, then they found no fault with the MacSed match Your logic is flawed. Pinnacle being a “black box” is not evidence of no wrongdoing. Your entire argument based on this statement is not valid. What IS evidence of wrongdoing is the betting line. Unless you, or anyone else can give me a logical reason as to why the betting line changed for something other than match fixing, then I suggest we accept that we need a real investigation. What investigation? Who will do it? WESG is silent and they had a chance to look at it already. You think the Chinese police will investigate after Pinnacle said there was nothing out of the ordinary with the betting? Good luck because I can tell you, that will never happen. Because Pinnacle said there was no suspicious betting in MacSed's game, the chance that the Chinese police will investigate is zero. Now if WESG comes out and says there was suspicious actions by MacSed, and/or Pinnacle reverses their stance and says there was suspicious betting, then it may be possible for the Chinese authorities to investigate. Until then, I doubt there will be a real investigation. But hey, you are free to fly to China to investigate. You can let the SC2 community know the result of your investigation after you fly to China. Good luck to you if you do! Pinnacle is based in the Netherlands. They have Laws there that protect gamblers. Match fixing breaks those Laws. Law enforcement there should investigate. On the SC2 side of things, Blizzard is the only relevant organization for an investigation. It’s in there best interest to root out anything that takes away from the integrity of the game. They should look into how the tournament was run, see if there’s any discrepancies, ask questions. You know, just some basic investigation stuff. They recently had to do this with Hearthstone with win trading aligations (and only after some strong public pressure I might add). They came to the conclusion that it happened, and responded accordingly. Oh good. Get Pinnacle to send us more details of how they determined MacSed's match didn't have suspicious betting that warranted a refund. I'm sure they will issue a second statement. You go do that! /s Yes, get Blizzard to investigate this too! You go do that! /s Yes, that’s what I’m doing now. I’m asking for an investigation. Don’t you want Blizzard/Pinnacle/relevant authorities to look into this? Shouldn’t we expect that when the smoke alarm goes off, we check to see if there is a fire? Then ask the damn officials. Do you realize you're here on some random internet forum? And as far as we know the fucking Pinnacle DID investigation. FFS at least remove the PInnacle from your post, it;s becoming pathetic. Ask the authorities. If you cannot ask yourself for whatever reasons ask someone in that country to file it so the police has to start the investigation. This is just forum on the interwebz, you can post here for eternity and guess what, no investigation will be done. SURPRISE! Of course what we say can have effects on peoples lifes, Shanas link was a great read that many that have posted here should read if you haven't. However Popkiller is not wrong in stating that based on the information we do have Macsed is likely guilty, you can disagree but that doesn't change anything. You think I'm a fool for posting my opinion and I think you're a fool if you actually believe that he is probably not guilty. In regards to your attack on hiro, how is it is his responsibility to contact the authorities. Maybe I should post the same message back to you huh? Since you seem to think it so important that someone contacts the police for an investigation, you do it yourself! The most critical thing you do miss there is that all of us here could contact the authorities and ask them to look into this but you know what nothing would happen. I live in sweden so I don't "really" know about the police entity in other countries but I doubt they are leagues and bounds better than what we have here and let me tell you that there are a lot of important things that should be investigated that is not. This tiny issue would never be prioritized by the police just because all of us calls them. You know what could make them look into it? If bigger corporations/organizations starts making their voices heard. We have no power here and nothing we do would lead to a "proper" investigation unless Blizzard/pinnacle/WESG pressure the authorities and why would they do that you ask? Because we pressure them as a community. The sad part is I think you already realized this but you don't really care if an investigation is made you just wants us that are of a different opinion to shut up, to silence us. That is more pathetic than anything hiro posted.
How? I don't know, did you try going to the Police station and reporting a possible crime? It's not that hard, they invite you inside, give you a cup of tea/cofee or just water, then they will listen to you, write a report, you read it, then you sign it and then the investigation starts.
Or go to a lawyer and get help from someone who makes LIVING out of this. This person should know how to report a crime oversees. Yes, this will result in YOU paying money for a professional help.
Like, people, do you have any idea how the society works?
I'm not gonna report anything, because I think no crime happened. But all these witch hunters who think crime happened should report THE CRIME TO THE ONLY AUTHORITY THAT CAN PROPERLY INVESTIGATE IT!!!!
User was warned for this post
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On March 21 2019 18:55 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 17:14 Shuffleblade wrote:On March 21 2019 15:29 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 13:34 feardragon wrote:
My point was not “I think this happened”. It was, before we publicly condemn a player and end a 10+ year career and livlihood of a player, let’s wait until we hear their side of the story. I said multiple times it was weird and suspicious but that I believe in waiting to hear all sides because public opinion is not something easily reversed. I gave an off example of something unlikely but possible. Why are so many people taking this out of context? Thank you feardragon. Good to see reasonable responses like this. Some of the behavior in this thread is absurd. Like I said before, some people are so emotionally invested in seeing that MacSed is guilty, they are now throwing their pitchforks at Rotti because Rotti dared to share his opinion. That is absurd behavior and shows a lack of maturity. Very much resembles the immature behavior of one particular poster throwing his pitchfork in the face of OP because he dared to share his opinion and bring this important topic into the light. On March 21 2019 16:44 deacon.frost wrote:On March 21 2019 15:48 Popkiller wrote:On March 21 2019 15:06 Shana wrote:On March 21 2019 13:53 Popkiller wrote:
everyone should keep in mind that this is not a trial and we are not a jury. Nothing we say here is going to affect Macsed's life, or anyone else's.
it's just a discussion. So, to say we think Macsed is guilty carries no weight, his career is fine. If there are any repercussions it won't be because of a TL thread, it will be because of an independent investigation.
so, in the name of discussion, I'll say that if you think a lot of money being bet on Seventy91 taking a map off Macsed (and no one else, by the way), and then Macsed playing one of the worst games imaginable (in between two much higher caliber games) is a coincidence...
I'll put it another way, if you were forced to make your own bet, of say $100,000, on whether or not Macsed threw that map, and you bet he didn't, you're out of your mind. Sangho disagrees with you. And lots of progamer where their game was deemed suspicious by community. https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/131156-interview-sangho-on-match-fixingUnless there are updates from authority, I don't think this thread should stay open. This has turned into witch hunt. I'm not hunting. Not saying Macsed should be banned from anything. If I were a tournament organizer, I wouldn't bar him from the tournament, not based on this information alone. Yeah, you're doing nothing wrong, just keeping the fire for to burn the witch,but you're not the one throwing the witch into the fire nor the one really hunting. How could you, you're just typing words on internwebz, it's fine, no harm can be done, right? + Show Spoiler +On March 21 2019 15:49 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 15:20 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 14:19 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 12:51 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:31 hiro protagonist wrote:On March 21 2019 01:20 xelnaga_empire wrote:On March 21 2019 01:00 Xophy wrote:
[quote]
Actually, you are not completely honest here. What they told to WaxAngel was "Please be advised that as per investigation department, we did not find anything suspicious on the said match.". Now, nowhere do they say that they actually investigated anything or looked into it. The only thing they say is that they did not find anything suspicious which would also be true if they did not investigate anything at all but rather trusted their algorithms!
Edit: Fixed for typo See, we are wasting time trying to figure out how Pinnacle operates internally and what they did or didn't do as part of their investigation. Unless a Pinnacle employee comes out and tells us exactly what they did and didn't do for the MacSed case, Pinnacle is a black box to us. And if Pinnacle is a black box to us, then they found no fault with the MacSed match Your logic is flawed. Pinnacle being a “black box” is not evidence of no wrongdoing. Your entire argument based on this statement is not valid. What IS evidence of wrongdoing is the betting line. Unless you, or anyone else can give me a logical reason as to why the betting line changed for something other than match fixing, then I suggest we accept that we need a real investigation. What investigation? Who will do it? WESG is silent and they had a chance to look at it already. You think the Chinese police will investigate after Pinnacle said there was nothing out of the ordinary with the betting? Good luck because I can tell you, that will never happen. Because Pinnacle said there was no suspicious betting in MacSed's game, the chance that the Chinese police will investigate is zero. Now if WESG comes out and says there was suspicious actions by MacSed, and/or Pinnacle reverses their stance and says there was suspicious betting, then it may be possible for the Chinese authorities to investigate. Until then, I doubt there will be a real investigation. But hey, you are free to fly to China to investigate. You can let the SC2 community know the result of your investigation after you fly to China. Good luck to you if you do! Pinnacle is based in the Netherlands. They have Laws there that protect gamblers. Match fixing breaks those Laws. Law enforcement there should investigate. On the SC2 side of things, Blizzard is the only relevant organization for an investigation. It’s in there best interest to root out anything that takes away from the integrity of the game. They should look into how the tournament was run, see if there’s any discrepancies, ask questions. You know, just some basic investigation stuff. They recently had to do this with Hearthstone with win trading aligations (and only after some strong public pressure I might add). They came to the conclusion that it happened, and responded accordingly. Oh good. Get Pinnacle to send us more details of how they determined MacSed's match didn't have suspicious betting that warranted a refund. I'm sure they will issue a second statement. You go do that! /s Yes, get Blizzard to investigate this too! You go do that! /s Yes, that’s what I’m doing now. I’m asking for an investigation. Don’t you want Blizzard/Pinnacle/relevant authorities to look into this? Shouldn’t we expect that when the smoke alarm goes off, we check to see if there is a fire? Then ask the damn officials. Do you realize you're here on some random internet forum? And as far as we know the fucking Pinnacle DID investigation. FFS at least remove the PInnacle from your post, it;s becoming pathetic. Ask the authorities. If you cannot ask yourself for whatever reasons ask someone in that country to file it so the police has to start the investigation. This is just forum on the interwebz, you can post here for eternity and guess what, no investigation will be done. SURPRISE! Of course what we say can have effects on peoples lifes, Shanas link was a great read that many that have posted here should read if you haven't. However Popkiller is not wrong in stating that based on the information we do have Macsed is likely guilty, you can disagree but that doesn't change anything. You think I'm a fool for posting my opinion and I think you're a fool if you actually believe that he is probably not guilty. In regards to your attack on hiro, how is it is his responsibility to contact the authorities. Maybe I should post the same message back to you huh? Since you seem to think it so important that someone contacts the police for an investigation, you do it yourself! The most critical thing you do miss there is that all of us here could contact the authorities and ask them to look into this but you know what nothing would happen. I live in sweden so I don't "really" know about the police entity in other countries but I doubt they are leagues and bounds better than what we have here and let me tell you that there are a lot of important things that should be investigated that is not. This tiny issue would never be prioritized by the police just because all of us calls them. You know what could make them look into it? If bigger corporations/organizations starts making their voices heard. We have no power here and nothing we do would lead to a "proper" investigation unless Blizzard/pinnacle/WESG pressure the authorities and why would they do that you ask? Because we pressure them as a community. The sad part is I think you already realized this but you don't really care if an investigation is made you just wants us that are of a different opinion to shut up, to silence us. That is more pathetic than anything hiro posted. How? I don't know, did you try going to the Police station and reporting a possible crime? It's not that hard, they invite you inside, give you a cup of tea/cofee or just water, then they will listen to you, write a report, you read it, then you sign it and then the investigation starts. Or go to a lawyer and get help from someone who makes LIVING out of this. This person should know how to report a crime oversees. Yes, this will result in YOU paying money for a professional help. Like, people, do you have any idea how the society works? I'm not gonna report anything, because I think no crime happened. But all these witch hunters who think crime happened should report THE CRIME TO THE ONLY AUTHORITY THAT CAN PROPERLY INVESTIGATE IT!!!!
Alright, maybe there's been a misunderstanding, I will try to be clear. This is only a question to you, a basic yes or no question.
Presume that an actual crime happened, just play with the idea that Macsed actually matchfixed. If I do report my suspicion to the police, if I do the above steps you so clearly spell out for me do you believe (presuming that he actually IS guilty) that the authorities would properly investigate, find proof and prosecute him?
Remember this is a basic yes or no question, also I perceive your reply as quite disrespectful, please try to keep a civil discussion.
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On March 21 2019 19:16 Shuffleblade wrote:
Presume that an actual crime happened, just play with the idea that Macsed actually matchfixed. If I do report my suspicion to the police, if I do the above steps you so clearly spell out for me do you believe (presuming that he actually IS guilty) that the authorities would properly investigate, find proof and prosecute him?.
Why would the authorities investigate when Pinnacle has already said there was no suspicious betting that would require a refund of the bets? On top of this,WESG has nothing to say on this too? What a waste of time for them to investigate.
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EPT
