EPTCommunity Feedback Update - Jan 16 - Page 5
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Jj_82
Swaziland419 Posts
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PoulsenB
Poland7763 Posts
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dummy1
420 Posts
On January 17 2019 17:32 Olli wrote: You do the exact same thing as before because it doesn't hit any earlier. Cyclone nerf it's a straight buff. WG research buff. Robo + obs buff. + Shield battaries. + Chronoboost. Stop trolling terrans. Please. Go and think about or i'll call a moderator to lock you up. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On January 17 2019 16:57 Olli wrote: Except that blink all-ins fell out of favor due to the time it now takes to research, plus the additional requirement of a robo and warp prism for reinforcements. Making it slightly cheaper doesn't change that. Lol, for sure, this buff was needed, blink stalker are too weak atm, you got it ! | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On January 17 2019 18:11 dummy1 wrote: Cyclone nerf it's a straight buff. WG research buff. Robo + obs buff. + Shield battaries. + Chronoboost. Stop trolling terrans. Please. Go and think about or i'll call a moderator to lock you up. Ooh, I want to see that! Do it, please! Anyway, according to sc2 wiki the Blink research time is 121. This wasn't buffed and this is the main delay in the build as this is the slowest thing in the chain. This doesn't change with the price and this doesn't affect WG research time as WG research time affects Stalkers without blink. If my memory is still on point we're talking about -50 gas buff and faster observer in this thing. Protoss players usually are gas starved, not mineral starved so the mineral price is debatable. In theory Protoss can get some units to defend proxy shield batteries or to get robo faster, but it won't hit faster then before because the slowest time is on the blink research. If we're talking about designated blink all in builds you don't delay TC, do you? And you start blink as soon as the TC is finished, don't you? Therefore this doesn't affect the timing. And most - if anything - in the end it all comes down to the map design, because it needs to be possible on the map pool  If anything is wrong we can talk about speed observer which will be nearly impossible to kill but I still doubt this will affect the build similarly as in HOTS where the map design and MSC both made it almost an auto-win button. | ||
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dummy1
420 Posts
On January 17 2019 18:33 deacon.frost wrote: ...before because the slowest time is on the blink research... chronoboooooost bro... | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
So we have : 1 : TvP macro unplayable, so every terran all-in ? => let's nerf terrran all-ins and buff protoss macro. (blink, obs speed, WG, robo cost). I don't know if i'am alone, but in mid-game macro play, protoss having very good invisible vision (+blink+recall, i.e the means to sanction terran muti-front) and terran playing in the dark already seem to be an issue for me. So yep lets super buff the obs... 2 : TvZ macro very hard in bio play, so every terran try to mech his way ? => let's drunk buff ultralisk (no role vs mech) and make it totally OP vs bio. The issue with late-game bio TvZ, solved by some modern mechs plays, is mobility. When one need to be off creep + control the ghosts sitting in a safe place + sieged libs + perfect army control + no surround + some simcity to plainly win a fight, one is very immobile, and not only cannot cross the map on-creep but it is becoming very hard to protect (and move between) 5th+6th+7th etc ( depending on the map layout ) | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
chronoboost isn't changed in this patch, bro | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On January 17 2019 18:33 deacon.frost wrote: Ooh, I want to see that! Do it, please! Anyway, according to sc2 wiki the Blink research time is 121. This wasn't buffed and this is the main delay in the build as this is the slowest thing in the chain. This doesn't change with the price and this doesn't affect WG research time as WG research time affects Stalkers without blink. If my memory is still on point we're talking about -50 gas buff and faster observer in this thing. Protoss players usually are gas starved, not mineral starved so the mineral price is debatable. In theory Protoss can get some units to defend proxy shield batteries or to get robo faster, but it won't hit faster then before because the slowest time is on the blink research. If we're talking about designated blink all in builds you don't delay TC, do you? And you start blink as soon as the TC is finished, don't you? Therefore this doesn't affect the timing. And most - if anything - in the end it all comes down to the map design, because it needs to be possible on the map pool If anything is wrong we can talk about speed observer which will be nearly impossible to kill but I still doubt this will affect the build similarly as in HOTS where the map design and MSC both made it almost an auto-win button. You're spot on. I didn't think these things needed to be spelled out. I guess I expect too much of people who balance whine. 1) If you're going cyclones vs a blink all-in you're likely going to die no matter the research time of mag field. You want tanks. 2) WG research time doesn't affect a blink all-in. WG is long done when a blink all-in hits. 3) Robo and obs stuff are tiny buffs that don't really affect the build itself. Maybe you can more easily save observers from poorly executed scans now, or sustain pressure by more quickly reinforcing a sniped observer. That's about it. A robo being 50 minerals cheaper has near zero impact on a blink all-in. 4) Shield batteries aren't being changed. 5) Chronoboost isn't being changed. 6) As you said above, blink already starts as soon as a twilight council is done, and blink research time isn't being touched, so blink finishes at the exact same time as before, regardless of the cost reduction. You'll have your robotics facility or an additional stalker earlier. This likely makes blink openers a little safer, but again has very minimal impact on an actual blink all-in. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On January 17 2019 18:38 DieuCure wrote: Nobody can explain rationally the blink and the observer buffs. Eventhe protoss didnt think about that kind of buff i'm sure. The observer buff should be a minor research in robo IMO. I don't think it should be in the bay, but right from the start to have fast observers seems like a route to hell. It's invisible and flies, what else do they want? Edit> something like 1 observer cost, 1 observer build time. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On January 17 2019 18:44 deacon.frost wrote: The observer buff should be a minor research in robo IMO. I don't think it should be in the bay, but right from the start to have fast observers seems like a route to hell. It's invisible and flies, what else do they want? Edit> something like 1 observer cost, 1 observer build time. I don't think the observer buff was really necessary, although it'll certainly help Protoss reactive play. You'll identify what your opponent is doing just a little bit faster. As detectors observers are really lackluster in a lot of scenarios because they're sniped so easily. Against lurkers or any sort of ghost/viking army it can get very difficult to maintain detection with observers if the opponent is good about sniping them. At full speed it might now be possible to save observers. It'll certainly be a useful change for Protoss, but maybe not one that was desperately needed. On a tangent, I think a lot of people would happily get observer speed in midgame scenarios if it didn't require an otherwise pretty weak tech path in the robotics bay. | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
On January 17 2019 18:40 Olli wrote: You're spot on. I didn't think these things needed to be spelled out. I guess I expect too much of people who balance whine. 1) If you're going cyclones vs a blink all-in you're likely going to die no matter the research time of mag field. You want tanks. 2) WG research time doesn't affect a blink all-in. WG is long done when a blink all-in hits. 3) Robo and obs stuff are tiny buffs that don't really affect the build itself. Maybe you can more easily save observers from poorly executed scans now, or sustain pressure by more quickly reinforcing a sniped observer. That's about it. A robo being 50 minerals cheaper has near zero impact on a blink all-in. 4) Shield batteries aren't being changed. 5) Chronoboost isn't being changed. 6) As you said above, blink already starts as soon as a twilight council is done, and blink research time isn't being touched, so blink finishes at the exact same time as before, regardless of the cost reduction. You'll have your robotics facility or an additional stalker earlier. This likely makes blink openers a little safer, but again has very minimal impact on an actual blink all-in. Tbh maybe some new blink all-in build can become viable, like, eh, making the twilight before researching warpgate ? The straight buffed pressure is 2bases 4g / 3g stargate. No upgraded cyclone, faster WG. Maybe some 3g proxy-prism too. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
It'll certainly be a useful change for Protoss, but maybe not one that was desperately needed. A marine buff isnt one that is desperately needed, but it would be an useful change ... It was absolutely not needed, and since you can f2 your obs and get more vision this buff is unbelievable. If it's hard to maintain detection with large detection and f2able observers nothing will help you, i dont know. Plus you have the oracle for that, protoss scout will just be even easier, snipe even harder, for no reason. If not because the oracle scout is too strong. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On January 17 2019 19:01 DieuCure wrote: A marine buff isnt one that is desperately needed, but it would be an useful change ... It was absolutely not needed, and since you can f2 your obs and get more vision this buff is unbelievable. If it's hard to maintain detection with large detection and f2able observers nothing will help you, i dont know. Plus you have the oracle for that, protoss scout will just be even easier, snipe even harder, for no reason. If not because the oracle scout is too strong. Can you rewrite this for people like me? I didn't understand what you mean. No offense intended, I just get lost. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
Observer New ability "Surveillance Mode." : Increases vision by 25% and immobilizes the observer. | ||
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xongnox
540 Posts
New obs seems way too strong vT, nearly unkillable. In the same time, in more than half the maps, reapers can't even scout vs toss. | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On January 17 2019 19:01 DieuCure wrote: A marine buff isnt one that is desperately needed, but it would be an useful change ... It was absolutely not needed, and since you can f2 your obs and get more vision this buff is unbelievable. If it's hard to maintain detection with large detection and f2able observers nothing will help you, i dont know. Plus you have the oracle for that, protoss scout will just be even easier, snipe even harder, for no reason. If not because the oracle scout is too strong. Bit of a difference between buffing a pure scouting unit and the literal core unit of most Terran unit compositions. Silly comparison. You're spot on that usually Protoss have oracles for that. But this is the point isn't it? They even state that in their post. They don't want oracles to be the clearly better alternative in every scenario. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Kikirik1
45 Posts
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