EPTMaru's Place in GSL History - Page 5
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
SSNYC77
43 Posts
| ||
|
DSK
England1110 Posts
On October 09 2018 22:46 SSNYC77 wrote: dont MVP and Inno have only 3 GSL titles? Apparently INo has four - I'll be honest, I completely forgot that, it shows here. OP: Graphs and charts would have been fab, but there is no denying that Maru has been a fantastic player over the years. Consider that in 2014 S1 and S2 in GSL there were about 4/5 terrans, and Maru reached the semis both times. In ProLeague he was a joy to watch. If he wins BlizzCon he will probably be the GOAT for me. Sorry, Jurgen. | ||
|
IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
| ||
|
brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On October 09 2018 22:28 travis wrote: I didn't miss it lol. I considered commenting on it. But in a way, he is correct. That many second places *is* very memorable. He does leave a memorable legacy. soo is an all time great, probably the second best zerg after life. it's funny how people will break out any kind of math or statistics they can imagine but we can't all agree that making 7 billion major finals is mathematically dominant. i get why championship culture exists - it enhances the male soap opera of sports and makes our hearts feel a certain type of way. but we assign more importance to individual #1 finishes than they're due actually, i'd go as far as saying that if you're ranking the most skilled players it's scientifically juvenile to waste time stacking up championships against each other when there are so many other factors to weigh. reminds me of the old timers in baseball who think pitcher wins are a good stat. ultimately it's all pretty subjective, but if your whole picture of a player is the number of titles they won why even bother having the debate?  | ||
|
SSNYC77
43 Posts
On October 09 2018 23:30 IshinShishi wrote: Both have four, you guys disappoint me, go watch Mvp play, he was the smartest player to ever play this game, Ty is a mere child in comparison. But what are those 4? The only thing i can think of is that TL for some reason counts invitationals as full on GSLs. But thatd be ridiculous. You might as well say Yellow has an MSL title because he won Snickers all-star. | ||
|
The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 10 2018 01:21 SSNYC77 wrote: But what are those 4? The only thing i can think of is that TL for some reason counts invitationals as full on GSLs. But thatd be ridiculous. You might as well say Yellow has an MSL title because he won Snickers all-star. Gomtv and now afreeca count these weekend tournaments like gsl vs the world (in serral's case) as gsls. The confusion arises because when people talk about gsl they mean code s. So Mvp won 3 code s titles but 4 gsls. (including the 2011 GSL World Championship) | ||
|
SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
On October 10 2018 01:21 SSNYC77 wrote: But what are those 4? The only thing i can think of is that TL for some reason counts invitationals as full on GSLs. But thatd be ridiculous. You might as well say Yellow has an MSL title because he won Snickers all-star. MVP has 4 GSL title Inno has 3 GSL and 1 SSL title. I think 4 if GSL if you count his win at GSL vs The World | ||
|
Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On October 10 2018 00:08 brickrd wrote: soo is an all time great, probably the second best zerg after life. it's funny how people will break out any kind of math or statistics they can imagine but we can't all agree that making 7 billion major finals is mathematically dominant. i get why championship culture exists - it enhances the male soap opera of sports and makes our hearts feel a certain type of way. but we assign more importance to individual #1 finishes than they're due actually, i'd go as far as saying that if you're ranking the most skilled players it's scientifically juvenile to waste time stacking up championships against each other when there are so many other factors to weigh. reminds me of the old timers in baseball who think pitcher wins are a good stat. ultimately it's all pretty subjective, but if your whole picture of a player is the number of titles they won why even bother having the debate? If people want to measure success in other metrics than championship titles I think that is perfectly reasonable. However, if we are going to go by tournament performances - the statistical significance of a 1st place finish vs a 2nd place finish is very large. Like, objectively - on average. When each round is likely to be more difficult than the previous, winning say - 6rounds in a row - is much much more difficult than winning 5 rounds in a row. | ||
|
rotta
5589 Posts
On October 09 2018 22:46 SSNYC77 wrote: dont MVP and Inno have only 3 GSL titles? Yes, tournaments don't count. | ||
|
Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
People aren't even consistant with their stupidity either. They don't do it for Life or Zest, who both won Code S twice and a GSL World cup (which is better than GSL vs the world). Mvp and INno fans are just desperate to make their idols seem better than they are. | ||
|
Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On October 10 2018 01:59 travis wrote: If people want to measure success in other metrics than championship titles I think that is perfectly reasonable. However, if we are going to go by tournament performances - the statistical significance of a 1st place finish vs a 2nd place finish is very large. Like, objectively - on average. When each round is likely to be more difficult than the previous, winning say - 6rounds in a row - is much much more difficult than winning 5 rounds in a row. But winning 5 rounds in a row, losing one, then winning another 5, over and over again, is surely more impressive than winning 6 in a row then not gaining much afterwoods? Out of both of Life's GSL championships, he never made ro8 in the neighbouring seasons (losing mostly in Code A or ro32). soO got second four times in a row, that part is really significant. | ||
|
Elentos
55550 Posts
On October 10 2018 05:10 Fango wrote: People aren't even consistant with their stupidity either. They don't do it for Life or Zest, who both won Code S twice and a GSL World cup (which is better than GSL vs the world). I've seen many people say Life won 3 GSLs | ||
|
Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Maybe. But certainly not as many claiming so. Mvp and INno having four GSLs seems widely accepted at this point. | ||
|
fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
MVP, Inno and Maru all have won GSL Code S three times now. I would also count Nestea in who won GSL Open Season 2 in 2010 and two times Code S in 2011. MVP and Inno both have an additional GSL title under their belt because of winning a GSL-Weekender (MVP GSL world championship in 2011 - which basically was a GSL vs The World and Inno GSL vs The World in 2017). GSL weirdly gave golds for their GSLvsTheWorld-tournaments, Blizzard-Cups and Global Championchips but not for their Hot6-Cups and according to Liquipedia not for the Super Tournaments that were won by Rogue (ST2 2017) and Classic (ST2 2018) but for all other Super Tournaments including ST1 of 2017 and 2018... weird. Fun fact: Thus Life's and Zest's 3 GSL-Golds also include only 2 CodeS-Championships as well as Stats' and MMA's 2 Golds only one CodeS-Championship. | ||
|
Elentos
55550 Posts
On October 10 2018 05:28 Fango wrote: Maybe. But certainly not as many claiming so. Mvp and INno having four GSLs seems widely accepted at this point. Well, people discuss Mvp and Inno and Maru on the regular. People don't talk about Life anymore. Also I'd like to point out that Zest got a GSL pin for his World Cup so he's a 3 time GSL champ to me. We all know only the pins matter. | ||
|
rotta
5589 Posts
On October 10 2018 05:35 Elentos wrote: We all know only the pins matter. Still waiting for that pin set from SPOTV.  | ||
|
Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On October 10 2018 05:35 Elentos wrote: Also I'd like to point out that Zest got a GSL pin for his World Cup so he's a 3 time GSL champ to me. We all know only the pins matter. He did? If he does I haven't seen him where it. In the final against Maru he had two. When he plays in GSL they appropriately show two golds and a silver as well. | ||
|
Charoisaur
Germany15967 Posts
I think it's really stupid that people put emphasis on how many "GSL's" someone has won because there's really no difference between a GSL cup and a Hot6ix/Kespa Cup or a GSL Code S and an OSL/SSL. The distinction people should make is how many Starleagues/korean weekenders someone has won - the amount of tournaments they won which have the name GSL in it is completely irrelevant for evaluating someones "greatness". Under this distinction it is: Maru: 5 Starleagues, 0 weekenders Inno: 4 Starleagues, 3 weekenders Mvp: 3 Starleagues, 1 weekender Zest: 2 Starleagues, 2 weekenders Life: 2 Starleagues, 1 weekender I think you can add Blizzcon and IEM Katowice to the weekender category because they are as competitive as a korean weekender. With that Zest and Life have 1 weekender more (I don't count Mvp's Blizzcon for obvious reasons). | ||
|
rotta
5589 Posts
| ||
|
The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On October 10 2018 06:04 Charoisaur wrote: GSL wins = winning tournaments that have the name GSL in it. I think it's really stupid that people put emphasis on how many "GSL's" someone has won because there's really no difference between a GSL cup and a Hot6ix/Kespa Cup or a GSL Code S and an OSL/SSL. The distinction people should make is how many Starleagues/korean weekenders someone has won - the amount of tournaments they won which have the name GSL in it is completely irrelevant for evaluating someones "greatness". Under this distinction it is: Maru: 5 Starleagues, 0 weekenders Inno: 4 Starleagues, 3 weekenders Mvp: 3 Starleagues, 1 weekender Zest: 2 Starleagues, 2 weekenders Life: 2 Starleagues, 2 weekenders I think you can add Blizzcon and IEM Katowice to the weekender category because they are as competitive as a korean weekender. With that Zest and Life have 1 weekender more (I don't count Mvp's Blizzcon for obvious reasons). Ok fair enough, but one shouldn't stop with only titles there either. Also teamleague results are important on top of that. I am really bothered by this simplified method of only looking at titles, as we see soO doesn't even appear in your little list which shows rather well how flawed it is. Also completely neglecting other weekenders is silly as well. I think going with results only is fine, all these players played in so many different tournaments that it balances itself out more or less (how difficult a path was, etc), but then we still need to look at it holistically and not just 1st place finishes in a handpicked group of tournaments (weighing them differently is important though for obvious reasons) | ||
| ||
