EPTINnoVation wins GSL Code S, defeating sOs 4-3 - Page 5
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Sakat
Croatia1599 Posts
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On September 17 2017 09:31 nomito wrote: People usually forget SC is a strategy game. Inno strategy is play estandar macro games, the field where he is almost unbeatable thanks to his mechanics. sOs likes to play mind/dirty/(call it whatever you want) games, and his playstyle is almost entirely focused on making this succed. From a strategy point of view, sOs is a greater player than Inno, but Inno is a greater player when it comes to mechanics. Say this finals had a mediocre level when two different strategies goes to a pretty close 4-3 is nonsense. the greatest player isn't the most macro oriented, micro oriented or mind oriented: it's the player who win. INnoVation won. It's his third Premier Tournament win in 2017. This is just insane, he is the better player overall. (Againt Dark he showed that he can also prepare very well, but he seems more helpless against Protoss, that being said, he still won against sOs.) | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 17 2017 11:42 ParksonVN wrote: Inno was just as dominant as Zest was in 2014, they both won gsl while Zest is almost irrelevant this year. The reason why Life could be par with Inno and clearly above Zest is that he won Blizzcon and also was the leading player of his own race for a long period, just like Inno for Terran, while there were tons of Protosses were on Zest's level: Rain, Classic, sOs, Stats. I mean we couldn't find any Zerg or Terran could play on the same levels of Life and Inno in their prime eras and it didn't apply for Zest. Inno was not as dominent as Zest in 2014. That's just factually wrong. He won GSL S3 and that was it. Like saying gumiho is as dominent as Inno this year because he won a GSL. Lets compare the actual runs There were 7 top tier korean events in 2014 (3 GSL, proleague, hot6, kespa, GSL global champ). Zest won 4 of them, and got 2 semifinals and a ro8 in the rest Compare that to this year. There's been 7 top tier korean events so far (3 GSL, 2 SSL, ST, GSLvsTW), Inno has won 3 of them, got top 5 in another, a ro8, and 2 ro16's in the rest. When you factor in that they also won GSLs in other years (Zest in 2016, Inno in 2014/15), and they both have had a year of non-existant results (zest in 2017, Inno in 2016). Their careers are quite comparable. Inno does have the edge ofc with his extra GSL and stuff. And yes there were plenty of other good protosses over the years but the same could be said for zerg or terran. Maru and MVP had times where they were unstoppable. soO, ByuL, and Dark all had times where they outshined every other zerg by a mile. Rain, Classic, and sOs also had times where they looked like the best protoss. Doesn't change the fact that at their peaks, Life, Inno, and Zest could dominate tournaments harder than anyone else in their race. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 17 2017 21:59 opisska wrote: The goat discussion is now settled. I doubt Innovation will ever be surpassed. Don't worry just go on reddit and people will convince you ByuN is the GOAT somehow | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15961 Posts
On September 17 2017 22:13 Fango wrote: Don't worry just go on reddit and people will convince you ByuN is the GOAT somehow I mean, he showed the highest skill-level of all time in game 5 against Dark at Blizzcon, right?  | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12193 Posts
Inno is very good at everything that I don't find impressive in the game, and he's abysmally bad at everything that I find impressive. Him being the GOAT would mean that nothing I care about matters in this game even remotely. Just the fact that this discussion exists makes me want to watch something else, to be honest. | ||
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protosskappa
13 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 17 2017 22:32 Nebuchad wrote: Really hope that Inno doesn't become the GOAT of Starcraft. I'd be hard pressed to find something that would kill my interest for the game faster. Inno is very good at everything that I don't find impressive in the game, and he's abysmally bad at everything that I find impressive. Him being the GOAT would mean that nothing I care about matters in this game even remotely. Just the fact that this discussion exists makes me want to watch something else, to be honest. He is "abysmally bad" at everything you find impressive? What would that be then? I get it, he is known as a mechanical beast and that's not the part of starcraft you like but to be on the level he is you aren't bad at any part of starcraft. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On September 17 2017 23:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: He is "abysmally bad" at everything you find impressive? What would that be then? I get it, he is known as a mechanical beast and that's not the part of starcraft you like but to be on the level he is you aren't bad at any part of starcraft. If he is talking about mindgame / cheese then he should just watch the semi against Dark. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12193 Posts
On September 17 2017 23:24 Mun_Su wrote: If he is talking about mindgame / cheese then he should just watch the semi against Dark. Do you remember the last time you were fighting a ling all-in, had two bases and a wall, and decided to a-move your army in the middle of the map so that it could get surrounded and killed? What were you, diamond? Cause I remember the last time Inno did it. | ||
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ParksonVN
Australia370 Posts
On September 17 2017 23:44 Nebuchad wrote: Do you remember the last time you were fighting a ling all-in, had two bases and a wall, and decided to a-move your army in the middle of the map so that it could get surrounded and killed? What were you, diamond? Cause I remember the last time Inno did it. and the Protoss who scouts Terran 2-factory Cyclone all-in and still make a 3rd Nexus ? Guess what, he's sOs. I mean everyone has horrible moments, especially for those have such long careers and countless televise matches. In the end accomplishment is what matters. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12193 Posts
On September 18 2017 00:02 ParksonVN wrote: and the Protoss who scouts Terran 2-factory Cyclone all-in and still make a 3rd Nexus ? Guess what, he's sOs. I mean everyone has horrible moments, especially for those have such long careers and countless televise matches. In the end accomplishment is what matters. Everyone has horrible moments, and when those moments happen a lot you conclude that they are not just moments but evidence that the person has a weakness. I had that with Has, I thought he had cool strategies but was mechanically average with a few mistakes, then I watched him play a little more and I saw that he was actually really bad at mechanics as opposed to having a few horrible moments like everyone else. That's how it works. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Especially if you play mech you have to understand the game very well to make it work, Inno is a beast at both mech and bio. Q.E.D. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 17 2017 23:01 The_Red_Viper wrote: He is "abysmally bad" at everything you find impressive? What would that be then? I get it, he is known as a mechanical beast and that's not the part of starcraft you like but to be on the level he is you aren't bad at any part of starcraft. To fair I understand were he's coming from. I cannot deny Inno is the best mechanical player ever, and also one of the best starcraft player of all time. But damn can he look boring doing it. The players I find impressive are the ones that can seemingly be put in any situation and know how to win, that can pull of clutch plays you didn't think were possible etc Inno does the same stuff as everyone else for the most part, he just does it better. I find his on-the-spot tactics and decision making ingame to be ok, but nothing special. He always has the most optimal build and strategy prepared beforehand that either wins (most of the time), or doesn't. (this isn't meant to be a critism btw, I'm just talking about his playstyle) To put it simply, Inno stands out to me as someone who wins a lot. With other players they stand out for being able to play like no one else can. Examples being guys like Life, who was ahead of everyone else when it came to being an aggressive zerg. Or Maru, who used positioning and micro to somehow dominate protoss during peak imbalance. Or Rain pioneering the perfect defensive toss. Now none of those guys won as much as Inno, but somehow I find their acheivments to be more impressive. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On September 18 2017 01:10 Fango wrote: To fair I understand were he's coming from. I cannot deny Inno is the best mechanical player ever, and also one of the best starcraft player of all time. But damn can he look boring doing it. The players I find impressive are the ones that can seemingly be put in any situation and know how to win, that can pull of clutch plays you didn't think were possible etc Inno does the same stuff as everyone else for the most part, he just does it better. I find his on-the-spot tactics and decision making ingame to be ok, but nothing special. He always has the most optimal build and strategy prepared beforehand that either wins (most of the time), or doesn't. (this isn't meant to be a critism btw, I'm just talking about his playstyle) To put it simply, Inno stands out to me as someone who wins a lot. With other players they stand out for being able to play like no one else can. Examples being guys like Life, who was ahead of everyone else when it came to being an aggressive zerg. Or Maru, who used positioning and micro to somehow dominate protoss during peak imbalance. Or Rain pioneering the perfect defensive toss. Now none of those guys won as much as Inno, but somehow I find their acheivments to be more impressive. You find them more impressive because they look more impressive. Life, Maru, ByuN, they make fantastic highlight reels or top-voted Reddit clips with incredible micro that just blows people away. Inno just wins. No flashy micro, no fancy engagements, no crazy allins. Just trophies. | ||
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imre
France9263 Posts
On September 17 2017 03:16 DieuCure wrote: Poor Mvp's fanboy, the end of their illusions is inescapable, and imminent ... Still waiting for the moment when Inno will do something relevant with Terran being the weakest race. And pretty sad about what sOs has become. HotS sOs had both really good execution and wonky strats. LotV sOs on the other hand... | ||
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Sogetsu
514 Posts
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ParksonVN
Australia370 Posts
On September 18 2017 02:18 pvsnp wrote: You find them more impressive because they look more impressive. Life, Maru, ByuN, they make fantastic highlight reels or top-voted Reddit clips with incredible micro that just blows people away. Inno just wins. No flashy micro, no fancy engagements, no crazy allins. Just trophies. the same with Flash, personally i prefer being a fan of someone i can learn from and teach me how to be success, like Inno. Of course fancy moments from ByuN, Maru are impressive, but you learn nothing from them. I bet most of the Terran players out there learn the most from InnoVation's play amongs all the Terran pros. | ||
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ParksonVN
Australia370 Posts
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