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France12912 Posts
On September 25 2017 18:16 DieuCure wrote:
I dont want to be a bad guy but Neeb 2017 >> You 2011 for example.
Just like INno 2017 >>> Mvp 2011.
And the 7-8 prove that. Era where 5 spines/base on 4 bases was lawful.
So i dont understand why Olli thinks it was the best era skill wise.
Not the same game, not the same time.
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Yes the game was easier back then, i have to add that to the comparison !
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On September 25 2017 18:16 DieuCure wrote:
I dont want to be a bad guy but Neeb 2017 >> You 2011 for example.
Just like INno 2017 >>> Mvp 2011.
And the 7-8 prove that. Era where 5 spines/base on 4 bases was lawful.
So i dont understand why Olli thinks it was the best era skill wise.
goes without saying? people play the game more, the general skill improves.. happens in any game (neeb and several other current gosus were also playing sc2 in 2011 btw)? im pretty sure hes talking about relative skill compared to their peers.
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Austria24422 Posts
On September 25 2017 18:16 DieuCure wrote:
I dont want to be a bad guy but Neeb 2017 >> You 2011 for example.
Just like INno 2017 >>> Mvp 2011.
And the 7-8 prove that. Era where 5 spines/base on 4 bases was lawful.
So i dont understand why Olli thinks it was the best era skill wise.
Because you ignore whenever I tell you that it wasn't. When I talk about the highest skill era, I talk about 2014/15. Because that's when the overall skill level, in my opinion, was highest. Not in 2011 or 2012. But I've told you that multiple times now and you keep on repeating it anyway.
As for skill comparisons in general, I find them very very hard to do when comparing different expansions. What I usually compare is the number of competitors at a high level, the competitive environment in general, the amount of strategic, mechanical, etc. mistakes I see people make in games, how hard it is to win tournaments, all that funky jazz. Comparing two different games is very hard to do. Which is why I generally agree that players should only be compared to their opposition at the time.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 25 2017 21:52 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 18:16 DieuCure wrote:
I dont want to be a bad guy but Neeb 2017 >> You 2011 for example.
Just like INno 2017 >>> Mvp 2011.
And the 7-8 prove that. Era where 5 spines/base on 4 bases was lawful.
So i dont understand why Olli thinks it was the best era skill wise. Because you ignore whenever I tell you that it wasn't. When I talk about the highest skill era, I talk about 2014/15. Because that's when the overall skill level, in my opinion, was highest. Not in 2011 or 2012. But I've told you that multiple times now and you keep on repeating it anyway. As for skill comparisons in general, I find them very very hard to do when comparing different expansions. What I usually compare is the number of competitors at a high level, the competitive environment in general, the amount of strategic, mechanical, etc. mistakes I see people make in games, how hard it is to win tournaments, all that funky jazz. Comparing two different games is very hard to do. Which is why I generally agree that players should only be compared to their opposition at the time.
Ignorance is Strength! 
I think that person loves you. you have an admirer :-)
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On September 25 2017 21:52 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 18:16 DieuCure wrote:
I dont want to be a bad guy but Neeb 2017 >> You 2011 for example.
Just like INno 2017 >>> Mvp 2011.
And the 7-8 prove that. Era where 5 spines/base on 4 bases was lawful.
So i dont understand why Olli thinks it was the best era skill wise. Because you ignore whenever I tell you that it wasn't. When I talk about the highest skill era, I talk about 2014/15. Because that's when the overall skill level, in my opinion, was highest. Not in 2011 or 2012. But I've told you that multiple times now and you keep on repeating it anyway. As for skill comparisons in general, I find them very very hard to do when comparing different expansions. What I usually compare is the number of competitors at a high level, the competitive environment in general, the amount of strategic, mechanical, etc. mistakes I see people make in games, how hard it is to win tournaments, all that funky jazz. Comparing two different games is very hard to do. Which is why I generally agree that players should only be compared to their opposition at the time.
So how can Mvp be the greatest if he performed well in an era of low skill ?
And i dont see why INno 2014 would be better than INno 2017 too ...
But sure, if you speak about the tough competition, she begins in ro32 instead of code A back then.
But according to the number of tournaments, the number of champions etc, it's much harder to win a tournament nowadays, ro8 is more similar seasons after seasons than before i think. So the gap between top 8 and others is growing up.
Only gumiho made it out of INno and Stats in the regular KR season, i dont think we saw this kind of dominance except in early days. And players behind are still trying hard.
I think they are above all that has been done.
Same for foreign scene, Snute etc are still trying hard, but Neeb is just at another lvl.
So i think it's harder to win a tournament now ( 2017, not 2016 ) than before.
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Austria24422 Posts
Disagree with every single thing you said, but that's nothing new and hardly the point of this thread.
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On September 25 2017 17:57 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 17:54 DieuCure wrote:
Maru S1 2016 was better than Byun
Maru was better overall from the end of blizzcon to season 2 2017, so, 3/5 seasons Maru was on top of Byun. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ByuNLotV -> gold http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/MaruLotV -> no gold Simple right?  LotV Maru - ~142k $ (WESG...) LotV ByuN - ~350k $ So yeah as expected, ByuN shits on Maru in LotV, which has to be expected since he was NEXExcrement  edit: and I never said 2011 was highest skilled I don't care about such fluff?
The point was that ByuN was only at the very top for a couple months. Whereas Maru has been consistantly high level for most of LoTV (and HoTS before it)
Also who uses earnings to judge a player's level? I guess MC in the GOAT then
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On September 25 2017 17:46 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 08:44 Fango wrote:On September 25 2017 02:19 Poopi wrote:On September 25 2017 00:16 Fango wrote:On September 24 2017 21:17 Mun_Su wrote:On September 24 2017 06:08 pvsnp wrote:On September 24 2017 05:32 Riner1212 wrote: INnoVation won only 3 where does the 4th one come from? does GSL vs World count as 1? Inno won 3 GSL Code S titles. Mvp won 3 GSL Code S titles. Inno won GSL vs the World. Mvp won GSL World Championship. (same format, 8 foreigners and 8 Koreans) That's why people say Inno = Mvp in GSLs. Also one can't compare Maru to INno, Maru isn't even close to INno's domination and trophies Maru is arguably the second best terran of all time behind Inno. Of course you can compare them, they both suceed in different aspects (Inno has more trophies, Maru has more consistency over patches) On September 24 2017 21:45 Poopi wrote:
Maru has been basically non existent in LotV afaik, except in proleague where he was a top terran.
Like he is probably the most overrated terran in all of LotV.
His skill has sometimes been great, but it never fully translated into individual results (closest was WESG qualifiers and tournament iirc?) In 2016, he had the best run of any player ever in a teamleague. 2017 has been disappointing sure, but to call him non existent isn't right (non existent is like Inno last year). He got gsl ro4 + 8, and finishes SSL around 5th each season. In terms of results in korea, he's done better than ByuN and similar to TY. Shame he'll probably end up 9th in wcs points and miss the cut off right I'm talking about LotV so 2016+2017 basically, since ByuN won Blizzcon and a GSL it's better result than what Maru achieved. Basically he is a great terran but he didn't go far enough in starleagues so we forget him :/. So if you don't get to a starleague final you're "basically non existant" ? Compared to ByuN, INno, TY, Gumiho, yes.
That's an idiotic definition of "non existant" then. You're basing it of hype and not skill level
I don't like using wcs points but I will to prove a point. Look at Inno in 2016, he was rank 31 in korea. Look at Cure this year, rank 37. Those are players you can call non existant. Maru is probably going to end up rank 8-9 on WCS korea this year. That puts him ahead of, aLive, Classic, Dear, Rogue, Solar, and possibly ByuN. Are those guys also basically non existant? Never heard anyone say they were
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With your correlation are you confirming that Cure will dominate the scene in 2018 Fango ?
INno was a thing in 2016, he has given us some freewins in ladder with the Cyclone build before the changes.
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EPT
