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On September 25 2017 00:31 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 00:26 DieuCure wrote:
TY's year is better than Maru's year. Him and maru are almost the same in terms of results in korea (aka if you take away the fact TY was at katowice). Maru actually got further in SSL and GSL, but TY did better in the weekenders. In terms of 2017, I think the terran pecking order goes Inno>TY>gumiho>maru>byun>aLive
WeSG -> TY was above, Katowice TY above too sad that Maru was one map away from qualifying against aLive.
And GSL's runs were much easier for Maru, the players he played werent so strong if you compare with TY's opponents, he was really lucky in the groups phases and ro8.
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France12906 Posts
On September 25 2017 00:16 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 21:17 Mun_Su wrote:On September 24 2017 06:08 pvsnp wrote:On September 24 2017 05:32 Riner1212 wrote: INnoVation won only 3 where does the 4th one come from? does GSL vs World count as 1? Inno won 3 GSL Code S titles. Mvp won 3 GSL Code S titles. Inno won GSL vs the World. Mvp won GSL World Championship. (same format, 8 foreigners and 8 Koreans) That's why people say Inno = Mvp in GSLs. Also one can't compare Maru to INno, Maru isn't even close to INno's domination and trophies Maru is arguably the second best terran of all time behind Inno. Of course you can compare them, they both suceed in different aspects (Inno has more trophies, Maru has more consistency over patches) Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 21:45 Poopi wrote:
Maru has been basically non existent in LotV afaik, except in proleague where he was a top terran.
Like he is probably the most overrated terran in all of LotV.
His skill has sometimes been great, but it never fully translated into individual results (closest was WESG qualifiers and tournament iirc?) In 2016, he had the best run of any player ever in a teamleague. 2017 has been disappointing sure, but to call him non existent isn't right (non existent is like Inno last year). He got gsl ro4 + 8, and finishes SSL around 5th each season. In terms of results in korea, he's done better than ByuN and similar to TY. Shame he'll probably end up 9th in wcs points and miss the cut off right
I'm talking about LotV so 2016+2017 basically, since ByuN won Blizzcon and a GSL it's better result than what Maru achieved.
Basically he is a great terran but he didn't go far enough in starleagues so we forget him :/.
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On September 24 2017 06:08 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 05:32 Riner1212 wrote:
innovation won only 3 where does the 4th one come from?
does GSL vs World count as 1? Inno won 3 GSL Code S titles. Mvp won 3 GSL Code S titles. Inno won GSL vs the World. Mvp won GSL World Championship. (same format, 8 foreigners and 8 Koreans) That's why people say Inno = Mvp in GSLs.
mvp won 4 gsl not 3 not sure where ppl get these fact from? innovation has to win one more to tie with MVP
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Lol Gsl vs the world's 2011 lineup was really bad.
"Highest skilled era"
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GSl vs the world really shouldn't count. It's objectively weaker than almost any other korean tournament.
The "GSL Cups" that Life and Zest won shouldn't count either, although they were still better than the half foreigner events Inno and MVP won
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On September 25 2017 02:19 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 00:16 Fango wrote:On September 24 2017 21:17 Mun_Su wrote:On September 24 2017 06:08 pvsnp wrote:On September 24 2017 05:32 Riner1212 wrote:INnoVation won only 3 where does the 4th one come from? does GSL vs World count as 1? Inno won 3 GSL Code S titles. Mvp won 3 GSL Code S titles. Inno won GSL vs the World. Mvp won GSL World Championship. (same format, 8 foreigners and 8 Koreans) That's why people say Inno = Mvp in GSLs. Also one can't compare Maru to INno, Maru isn't even close to INno's domination and trophies Maru is arguably the second best terran of all time behind Inno. Of course you can compare them, they both suceed in different aspects (Inno has more trophies, Maru has more consistency over patches) On September 24 2017 21:45 Poopi wrote:
Maru has been basically non existent in LotV afaik, except in proleague where he was a top terran.
Like he is probably the most overrated terran in all of LotV.
His skill has sometimes been great, but it never fully translated into individual results (closest was WESG qualifiers and tournament iirc?) In 2016, he had the best run of any player ever in a teamleague. 2017 has been disappointing sure, but to call him non existent isn't right (non existent is like Inno last year). He got gsl ro4 + 8, and finishes SSL around 5th each season. In terms of results in korea, he's done better than ByuN and similar to TY. Shame he'll probably end up 9th in wcs points and miss the cut off right I'm talking about LotV so 2016+2017 basically, since ByuN won Blizzcon and a GSL it's better result than what Maru achieved. Basically he is a great terran but he didn't go far enough in starleagues so we forget him :/.
So if you don't get to a starleague final you're "basically non existant" ?
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On September 25 2017 08:42 Fango wrote:
GSl vs the world really shouldn't count. It's objectively weaker than almost any other korean tournament.
The "GSL Cups" that Life and Zest won shouldn't count either, although they were still better than the half foreigner events Inno and MVP won
Ro8 was really stacked this year
The 2011 ro8 was a joke seriously
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On September 25 2017 08:44 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 02:19 Poopi wrote:On September 25 2017 00:16 Fango wrote:On September 24 2017 21:17 Mun_Su wrote:On September 24 2017 06:08 pvsnp wrote:On September 24 2017 05:32 Riner1212 wrote:INnoVation won only 3 where does the 4th one come from? does GSL vs World count as 1? Inno won 3 GSL Code S titles. Mvp won 3 GSL Code S titles. Inno won GSL vs the World. Mvp won GSL World Championship. (same format, 8 foreigners and 8 Koreans) That's why people say Inno = Mvp in GSLs. Also one can't compare Maru to INno, Maru isn't even close to INno's domination and trophies Maru is arguably the second best terran of all time behind Inno. Of course you can compare them, they both suceed in different aspects (Inno has more trophies, Maru has more consistency over patches) On September 24 2017 21:45 Poopi wrote:
Maru has been basically non existent in LotV afaik, except in proleague where he was a top terran.
Like he is probably the most overrated terran in all of LotV.
His skill has sometimes been great, but it never fully translated into individual results (closest was WESG qualifiers and tournament iirc?) In 2016, he had the best run of any player ever in a teamleague. 2017 has been disappointing sure, but to call him non existent isn't right (non existent is like Inno last year). He got gsl ro4 + 8, and finishes SSL around 5th each season. In terms of results in korea, he's done better than ByuN and similar to TY. Shame he'll probably end up 9th in wcs points and miss the cut off right I'm talking about LotV so 2016+2017 basically, since ByuN won Blizzcon and a GSL it's better result than what Maru achieved. Basically he is a great terran but he didn't go far enough in starleagues so we forget him :/. So if you don't get to a starleague final you're "basically non existant" ?
If you don't lift the trophy, you're basically nonexistent.
Unless you are soO, in which case your existence is a meme.
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On September 25 2017 08:42 Fango wrote:
GSl vs the world really shouldn't count. It's objectively weaker than almost any other korean tournament.
The "GSL Cups" that Life and Zest won shouldn't count either, although they were still better than the half foreigner events Inno and MVP won
they didn't count HOT6 for Rain and sOs but they do for Life and Zest's GSL Cup that's weird.
in my opinion, Rain and sOs' HOT6 cup were harder than Zest's GSL GC win
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Austria24422 Posts
On September 25 2017 11:35 AzAlexZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 08:42 Fango wrote:
GSl vs the world really shouldn't count. It's objectively weaker than almost any other korean tournament.
The "GSL Cups" that Life and Zest won shouldn't count either, although they were still better than the half foreigner events Inno and MVP won they didn't count HOT6 for Rain and sOs but they do for Life and Zest's GSL Cup that's weird. in my opinion, Rain and sOs' HOT6 cup were harder than Zest's GSL GC win
Zest's is never counted, not sure what you're talking about. Life's usually is though. There really is zero consistency with the community counting GSLs.
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I dont know if we have to count a tournament where TT1 and anypro made it to ro8 at the highest skilled era ever
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France12906 Posts
On September 25 2017 08:44 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2017 02:19 Poopi wrote:On September 25 2017 00:16 Fango wrote:On September 24 2017 21:17 Mun_Su wrote:On September 24 2017 06:08 pvsnp wrote:On September 24 2017 05:32 Riner1212 wrote:INnoVation won only 3 where does the 4th one come from? does GSL vs World count as 1? Inno won 3 GSL Code S titles. Mvp won 3 GSL Code S titles. Inno won GSL vs the World. Mvp won GSL World Championship. (same format, 8 foreigners and 8 Koreans) That's why people say Inno = Mvp in GSLs. Also one can't compare Maru to INno, Maru isn't even close to INno's domination and trophies Maru is arguably the second best terran of all time behind Inno. Of course you can compare them, they both suceed in different aspects (Inno has more trophies, Maru has more consistency over patches) On September 24 2017 21:45 Poopi wrote:
Maru has been basically non existent in LotV afaik, except in proleague where he was a top terran.
Like he is probably the most overrated terran in all of LotV.
His skill has sometimes been great, but it never fully translated into individual results (closest was WESG qualifiers and tournament iirc?) In 2016, he had the best run of any player ever in a teamleague. 2017 has been disappointing sure, but to call him non existent isn't right (non existent is like Inno last year). He got gsl ro4 + 8, and finishes SSL around 5th each season. In terms of results in korea, he's done better than ByuN and similar to TY. Shame he'll probably end up 9th in wcs points and miss the cut off right I'm talking about LotV so 2016+2017 basically, since ByuN won Blizzcon and a GSL it's better result than what Maru achieved. Basically he is a great terran but he didn't go far enough in starleagues so we forget him :/. So if you don't get to a starleague final you're "basically non existant" ?
Compared to ByuN, INno, TY, Gumiho, yes.
On September 25 2017 17:41 DieuCure wrote:
I dont know if we have to count a tournament where TT1 and anypro made it to ro8 at the highest skilled era ever
Still a far better era than currently, where the 2nd best french player in term of WCS points, is a retired player.
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Maru S1 2016 was better than Byun
Maru was better overall from the end of blizzcon to season 2 2017, so, 3/5 seasons Maru was on top of Byun.
Skill wise 2010-2012 isnt the highest skilled era, sure it was the era with more tournaments, more players, but to say that it was the most skilled era is a fabulation, and wcs points mean nothing on 7 different years
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France12906 Posts
On September 25 2017 17:54 DieuCure wrote:
Maru S1 2016 was better than Byun
Maru was better overall from the end of blizzcon to season 2 2017, so, 3/5 seasons Maru was on top of Byun.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ByuN
LotV -> gold
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Maru
LotV -> no gold
Simple right? 
LotV Maru - ~142k $ (WESG...)
LotV ByuN - ~350k $
So yeah as expected, ByuN shits on Maru in LotV, which has to be expected since he was NEXExcrement 
edit: and I never said 2011 was highest skilled
I don't care about such fluff?
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Yes that's what i said, Byun was better than Maru for 2 seasons / 5.
And the "fluff" wasnt meant for you 
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On September 25 2017 08:24 DieuCure wrote:
Lol Gsl vs the world's 2011 lineup was really bad.
"Highest skilled era"
in what way was it "bad"? the gsl players in 2011 were all the players who had the most amount of gsl points (that's how they got selected).. and we went 7-8 vs them in the team match
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France12906 Posts
On September 25 2017 18:02 DieuCure wrote:Yes that's what i said, Byun was better than Maru for 2 seasons / 5. And the "fluff" wasnt meant for you
ByuN was better on aligulac for probably every season, so in no metric was Maru better than ByuN in LotV except blind fanboyism ^^
Maru was good in proleague but ByuN had no team (he didn't need one to win starleagues ^^)
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I dont want to be a bad guy but Neeb 2017 >> You 2011 for example.
Just like INno 2017 >>> Mvp 2011.
And the 7-8 prove that. Era where 5 spines/base on 4 bases was lawful.
So i dont understand why Olli thinks it was the best era skill wise.
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EPT
