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On September 19 2017 03:08 Fango wrote:
Didn't he improve his PvT in 2015? I remember him beatin Inno and Maru in a few tournaments. While his PvP/Z went down a bit until LoTV came out. He was still strong toward the end of HoTS though
2015 was pretty unremarkable for Zest aside from Katowice. He placed decently (quarterfinals iirc) in the Starleagues but no big wins. The only thing I remember about Zest in late 2015 was that Inno stomped him hard in GSL and again at Blizzcon.
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still not even close to MVP. yawn.
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On September 17 2017 12:19 RKC wrote:
Both players played magnificently, to the best of their strengths.
sOs is an agent of chaos - like the Joker.
Inno is analytical, methodological and unbending - like Batman.
And the series turned out just like 'The Dark Knight'. Just as Batman was stretched to his moral limits, Inno was stretched to his mechanical limits. No amount of raw skill can effectively counter sOs' mad genius (ninja expos, proxies, fake-outs, econ greed, etc.). In G5, sOs gambled hard with BW-esque Refugee Toss strat - and it worked brilliantly. In the final two games, however, Inno really wised up and anticipated sOs' moves with precision (G6 - the god-sense scan on the right of sOs' army where his DTs were lurking; G7 - the marine scout catching sight of the hidden 5 o'clock expo).
sOs nearly prevailed with his chaotic play-style. But in the end, Inno restored order. Unlike TDK, sOs did not get the last laugh.
Brilliant performance for both sides! Should go down in SC2 history as one of the greatest finals!
This is a real comment.
Great games
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On September 20 2017 19:53 Kitaen wrote:
still not even close to MVP. yawn.
Inno has been at the tippy top longer than MVP, in an era that was much more competitive imo.
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United States1939 Posts
On September 22 2017 12:39 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Inno has been at the tippy top longer than MVP, in an era that was much more competitive imo.
When you're talking about skill level, Maru has been far more consistent than INnoVation. Maru was a top two Terran from 2013 through the first half of 2017. INnoVation on the other hand was invisible for long stretches of time, including most of 2013 and all of 2016. Also, Mvp's career was ended by factors outside of his control, so his lack of longevity isn't an indictment on his skill as a player, rather the fact that he was gifted a garbage body.
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On September 22 2017 21:20 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 12:39 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On September 20 2017 19:53 Kitaen wrote:
still not even close to MVP. yawn. Inno has been at the tippy top longer than MVP, in an era that was much more competitive imo. When you're talking about skill level, Maru has been far more consistent than INnoVation. Maru was a top two Terran from 2013 through the first half of 2017. INnoVation on the other hand was invisible for long stretches of time, including most of 2013 and all of 2016. Also, Mvp's career was ended by factors outside of his control, so his lack of longevity isn't an indictment on his skill as a player, rather the fact that he was gifted a garbage body.
Yes so you just explained why Mvp isnt the GOAT
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On September 22 2017 21:20 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 12:39 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On September 20 2017 19:53 Kitaen wrote:
still not even close to MVP. yawn. Inno has been at the tippy top longer than MVP, in an era that was much more competitive imo. When you're talking about skill level, Maru has been far more consistent than INnoVation. Maru was a top two Terran from 2013 through the first half of 2017. INnoVation on the other hand was invisible for long stretches of time, including most of 2013 and all of 2016. Also, Mvp's career was ended by factors outside of his control, so his lack of longevity isn't an indictment on his skill as a player, rather the fact that he was gifted a garbage body.
Maru has been more consistent sure, but Inno's peaks were indeed higher. Maru also seemed to shine through periods of imbalance against terran, where Inno seems to slump.
Still though, no one really remembers consistency except for maybe soO. People remember tournament wins. I think Maru actually has more appearances in GSL playoffs (?), but Inno has more wins ofc
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United States1939 Posts
On September 22 2017 21:37 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 21:20 mizenhauer wrote:On September 22 2017 12:39 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On September 20 2017 19:53 Kitaen wrote:
still not even close to MVP. yawn. Inno has been at the tippy top longer than MVP, in an era that was much more competitive imo. When you're talking about skill level, Maru has been far more consistent than INnoVation. Maru was a top two Terran from 2013 through the first half of 2017. INnoVation on the other hand was invisible for long stretches of time, including most of 2013 and all of 2016. Also, Mvp's career was ended by factors outside of his control, so his lack of longevity isn't an indictment on his skill as a player, rather the fact that he was gifted a garbage body. Maru has been more consistent sure, but Inno's peaks were indeed higher. Maru also seemed to shine through periods of imbalance against terran, where Inno seems to slump. Still though, no one really remembers consistency except for maybe soO. People remember tournament wins. I think Maru actually has more appearances in GSL playoffs (?), but Inno has more wins ofc
I think you could easily make a case that Maru's form in early 2015 was just as good or better than anything Inno, or any player for that matter, exhibited at any point in their careers.
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Because he has the best teacher ( and player ) to learn him how to play
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On September 22 2017 21:56 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 21:37 Fango wrote:On September 22 2017 21:20 mizenhauer wrote:On September 22 2017 12:39 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On September 20 2017 19:53 Kitaen wrote:
still not even close to MVP. yawn. Inno has been at the tippy top longer than MVP, in an era that was much more competitive imo. When you're talking about skill level, Maru has been far more consistent than INnoVation. Maru was a top two Terran from 2013 through the first half of 2017. INnoVation on the other hand was invisible for long stretches of time, including most of 2013 and all of 2016. Also, Mvp's career was ended by factors outside of his control, so his lack of longevity isn't an indictment on his skill as a player, rather the fact that he was gifted a garbage body. Maru has been more consistent sure, but Inno's peaks were indeed higher. Maru also seemed to shine through periods of imbalance against terran, where Inno seems to slump. Still though, no one really remembers consistency except for maybe soO. People remember tournament wins. I think Maru actually has more appearances in GSL playoffs (?), but Inno has more wins ofc I think you could easily make a case that Maru's form in early 2015 was just as good or better than anything Inno, or any player for that matter, exhibited at any point in their careers.
easily? hell no. not even close. zest and inno had far more dominating and invincible seeming stretches.
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On September 22 2017 21:20 mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2017 12:39 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:On September 20 2017 19:53 Kitaen wrote:
still not even close to MVP. yawn. Inno has been at the tippy top longer than MVP, in an era that was much more competitive imo. When you're talking about skill level, Maru has been far more consistent than INnoVation. Maru was a top two Terran from 2013 through the first half of 2017. INnoVation on the other hand was invisible for long stretches of time, including most of 2013 and all of 2016. Also, Mvp's career was ended by factors outside of his control, so his lack of longevity isn't an indictment on his skill as a player, rather the fact that he was gifted a garbage body.
Maru is definitely amazing and fun to watch and all but I wouldnt compare him to Innovation. He might have been the only relevant Terran during the blink-era but when Innovation has his peaks, he dominates everyone (early HotS, end of HotS, 2017). I also think that innovations invisibility during the blink-era was partially because he wasnt on any proleague team.
Innovations long-term consistency in achieving great results is for sure the greatest there is now. If there ever was a player to compete with him it was Life. Not Mvp. Its been 5 years of SC2 since his last real achievement and im sure we can all agree that the skill-level has increased immensely over the years and after the kespa switch.
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innovation won only 3 where does the 4th one come from?
does GSL vs World count as 1?
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On September 24 2017 05:32 Riner1212 wrote:
innovation won only 3 where does the 4th one come from?
does GSL vs World count as 1?
Inno won 3 GSL Code S titles. Mvp won 3 GSL Code S titles.
Inno won GSL vs the World. Mvp won GSL World Championship. (same format, 8 foreigners and 8 Koreans)
That's why people say Inno = Mvp in GSLs.
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On September 24 2017 06:08 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 05:32 Riner1212 wrote: INnoVation won only 3 where does the 4th one come from? does GSL vs World count as 1? Inno won 3 GSL Code S titles. Mvp won 3 GSL Code S titles. Inno won GSL vs the World. Mvp won GSL World Championship. (same format, 8 foreigners and 8 Koreans) That's why people say Inno = Mvp in GSLs.
And people are fucking right.
Also one can't compare Maru to INno, Maru isn't even close to INno's domination and trophies
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France12980 Posts
Maru has been basically non existent in LotV afaik, except in proleague where he was a top terran.
Like he is probably the most overrated terran in all of LotV.
His skill has sometimes been great, but it never fully translated into individual results (closest was WESG qualifiers and tournament iirc?)
So basically in LotV INno, TY and ByuN have been far better terrans.
Mvp might have been injured and all, but I don't think he would have shone in LotV had he remained healthy and was still playing, because his strengths aren't enough to win nowadays.
On the other hand, INno is good enough in the strategy part to be able to sustain bo7 / finals, and is mechanically sound enough to be able to win in any match-up.
His game 2 against sOs in this finals is a great example: strategically it's nothing impressive (it's hard to be impressive strategically on LotV tho) but mechanically it was a brillant display.
Since INno can keep on playing, and the last sc2 extension favors such players, mvp's legacy has already been defeated by INno's.
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On September 24 2017 21:17 Mun_Su wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2017 06:08 pvsnp wrote:On September 24 2017 05:32 Riner1212 wrote:INnoVation won only 3 where does the 4th one come from? does GSL vs World count as 1? Inno won 3 GSL Code S titles. Mvp won 3 GSL Code S titles. Inno won GSL vs the World. Mvp won GSL World Championship. (same format, 8 foreigners and 8 Koreans) That's why people say Inno = Mvp in GSLs. Also one can't compare Maru to INno, Maru isn't even close to INno's domination and trophies
Maru is arguably the second best terran of all time behind Inno. Of course you can compare them, they both suceed in different aspects (Inno has more trophies, Maru has more consistency over patches)
On September 24 2017 21:45 Poopi wrote:
Maru has been basically non existent in LotV afaik, except in proleague where he was a top terran.
Like he is probably the most overrated terran in all of LotV.
His skill has sometimes been great, but it never fully translated into individual results (closest was WESG qualifiers and tournament iirc?)
In 2016, he had the best run of any player ever in a teamleague. 2017 has been disappointing sure, but to call him non existent isn't right (non existent is like Inno last year). He got gsl ro4 + 8, and finishes SSL around 5th each season. In terms of results in korea, he's done better than ByuN and similar to TY. Shame he'll probably end up 9th in wcs points and miss the cut off right
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TY's year is better than Maru's year.
And i dont think Maru is #2 terran on Starcraft 2 overall, considering INno is #2.
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On September 25 2017 00:26 DieuCure wrote:
TY's year is better than Maru's year.
And i dont think Maru is #2 terran on Starcraft 2 overall, considering INno is #2.
behind Cure?
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Is it even a question or you kidding me?
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On September 25 2017 00:26 DieuCure wrote:
TY's year is better than Maru's year.
Him and maru are almost the same in terms of results in korea (aka if you take away the fact TY was at katowice). Maru actually got further in SSL and GSL, but TY did better in the weekenders.
In terms of 2017, I think the terran pecking order goes Inno>TY>gumiho>maru>byun>aLive
Edit: while I'm at it. Zerg is Dark>soO>Rogue>Solar>ByuL. And protoss is Stats>sOs>Classic>herO>Zest
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EPT
