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On August 22 2017 07:13 VHbb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2017 07:01 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The test map is enjoyable. I need to hit strong players to see how difficult it has really become to handle early game aggression without a msc, but so far I find getting more units in the early game works just fine.
Recall is VERY abusive imo, especially lategame, on Nexi and or Mothership alike. The new stalker feels strong, monitoring blink timings again might become a necessity. I like the new overcharge, although making it 25 energy (like it was in HotS) would maybe make it more flexible.
Overall, promising. The interesting thing is that in the end, the game doesn't change much for people like me who already played blink colossi vT. So it's a "major" patch since the msc gets removed, but the overall feel of the game is preserved, this is good imo. How do you feel with the 4s delay associated with the recall ability? Does it feel too long, or sounds like a fair time?
As a defender, you can get some free kills but it's not very punishing for the P.
I think the radius and the low tech requirement are abusive. But I hope the ability itself stays. Having it to be researched could be interesting.
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On August 22 2017 07:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2017 07:13 VHbb wrote:On August 22 2017 07:01 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The test map is enjoyable. I need to hit strong players to see how difficult it has really become to handle early game aggression without a msc, but so far I find getting more units in the early game works just fine.
Recall is VERY abusive imo, especially lategame, on Nexi and or Mothership alike. The new stalker feels strong, monitoring blink timings again might become a necessity. I like the new overcharge, although making it 25 energy (like it was in HotS) would maybe make it more flexible.
Overall, promising. The interesting thing is that in the end, the game doesn't change much for people like me who already played blink colossi vT. So it's a "major" patch since the msc gets removed, but the overall feel of the game is preserved, this is good imo. How do you feel with the 4s delay associated with the recall ability? Does it feel too long, or sounds like a fair time? As a defender, you can get some free kills but it's not very punishing for the P. I think the radius and the low tech requirement are abusive. But I hope the ability itself stays. Having it to be researched could be interesting.
I don't think it will be used early game since it competes with chronoboost for energy and you really need those chronoboosts in the earlygame.
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Roses are red;
Violets are blue;
Banelings should be green;
But with the skin;
They're blue too...
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On August 22 2017 07:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2017 07:13 VHbb wrote:On August 22 2017 07:01 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The test map is enjoyable. I need to hit strong players to see how difficult it has really become to handle early game aggression without a msc, but so far I find getting more units in the early game works just fine.
Recall is VERY abusive imo, especially lategame, on Nexi and or Mothership alike. The new stalker feels strong, monitoring blink timings again might become a necessity. I like the new overcharge, although making it 25 energy (like it was in HotS) would maybe make it more flexible.
Overall, promising. The interesting thing is that in the end, the game doesn't change much for people like me who already played blink colossi vT. So it's a "major" patch since the msc gets removed, but the overall feel of the game is preserved, this is good imo. How do you feel with the 4s delay associated with the recall ability? Does it feel too long, or sounds like a fair time? As a defender, you can get some free kills but it's not very punishing for the P. I think the radius and the low tech requirement are abusive. But I hope the ability itself stays. Having it to be researched could be interesting.
Thank you  maybe it could be unlocked automatically after a certain building is built (I don't know at which step it would be more appropriate, I suspect cyber core requirement wouldn't make much difference?)
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On August 22 2017 09:06 VHbb wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2017 07:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:On August 22 2017 07:13 VHbb wrote:On August 22 2017 07:01 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The test map is enjoyable. I need to hit strong players to see how difficult it has really become to handle early game aggression without a msc, but so far I find getting more units in the early game works just fine.
Recall is VERY abusive imo, especially lategame, on Nexi and or Mothership alike. The new stalker feels strong, monitoring blink timings again might become a necessity. I like the new overcharge, although making it 25 energy (like it was in HotS) would maybe make it more flexible.
Overall, promising. The interesting thing is that in the end, the game doesn't change much for people like me who already played blink colossi vT. So it's a "major" patch since the msc gets removed, but the overall feel of the game is preserved, this is good imo. How do you feel with the 4s delay associated with the recall ability? Does it feel too long, or sounds like a fair time? As a defender, you can get some free kills but it's not very punishing for the P. I think the radius and the low tech requirement are abusive. But I hope the ability itself stays. Having it to be researched could be interesting. Thank you maybe it could be unlocked automatically after a certain building is built (I don't know at which step it would be more appropriate, I suspect cyber core requirement wouldn't make much difference?)
The cyber core requierment was there for the MSC and didn't make much of a difference
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On August 22 2017 07:01 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The test map is enjoyable. I need to hit strong players to see how difficult it has really become to handle early game aggression without a msc, but so far I find getting more units in the early game works just fine.
Recall is VERY abusive imo, especially lategame, on Nexi and or Mothership alike. The new stalker feels strong, monitoring blink timings again might become a necessity. I like the new overcharge, although making it 25 energy (like it was in HotS) would maybe make it more flexible.
Overall, promising. The interesting thing is that in the end, the game doesn't change much for people like me who already played blink colossi vT. So it's a "major" patch since the msc gets removed, but the overall feel of the game is preserved, this is good imo.
I am a little concerned about the power of Blink Stalkers early and countering some of the harass techniques in the game as Protoss. The counters to Stalkers early are all armored units in PvP and PvT, and we made the Stalker better versus them. That could be problematic.
Oracles will also a lot stronger in PvP without Photon Overcharge. We really should try to get Blizzard to make the Oracle an armored unit again ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/505739-a-change-to-the-oracle ) to help against this. Also don't forget proxy Gate and Cannon rushes in PvP, they could be a lot stronger.
In non-mirrors there are a plethora of builds that Terran and Zerg will be able to do to punish Protoss without Photon Overcharge. For instance, currently with Photon Overcharge, Terran can macro pretty hard and still harass Protoss early. Without Photon Overcharge Terrans can play exactly the same but Protoss needs a lot more units early which will slow them down their economy and leave them increasingly vulnerable to mid game timings. Protoss needs the ability to threaten Terran early if that matchup is going to work. Blink Stalkers might mask the problem for a time, or even indefinitely if they are dominant (but then opening Blink will be the only play to play PvT, and that is bad design), so it should be addressed.
As time goes on, I think these issues will present themselves as Shield Regeneration isn't nearly as strong as Photon Overcharge.
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I would probably like to see mini-recalls on a unit like the mscore. Should make it a weak defensive unit, with rather weakstats that can recall maybe 8~ units.
Cut the mothership completely. Make ms-core none-hero type so player can build many of it.
Comes from stargate is the prefered techchoice. Cheap recall, 75 energy~
Cut recall from nexus.
Make the unit have slow acceleration, very slow but when moving in a straight line for x time, the speed can be quite fast.
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make cyclones microable again
scrap the 1A ground weapon and bring back ground-to-ground lock-on
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On August 22 2017 13:05 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2017 07:01 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The test map is enjoyable. I need to hit strong players to see how difficult it has really become to handle early game aggression without a msc, but so far I find getting more units in the early game works just fine.
Recall is VERY abusive imo, especially lategame, on Nexi and or Mothership alike. The new stalker feels strong, monitoring blink timings again might become a necessity. I like the new overcharge, although making it 25 energy (like it was in HotS) would maybe make it more flexible.
Overall, promising. The interesting thing is that in the end, the game doesn't change much for people like me who already played blink colossi vT. So it's a "major" patch since the msc gets removed, but the overall feel of the game is preserved, this is good imo. [...]Terran can macro pretty hard and still harass Protoss early. Without Photon Overcharge Terrans can play exactly the same but Protoss needs a lot more units early which will slow them down their economy and leave them increasingly vulnerable to mid game timings. Protoss needs the ability to threaten Terran early if that matchup is going to work.[...]
With the MULE change, Terran timings will be different (later for bio), too. How the new timings play out needs to be tested.
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What do people think about my idea of making swarmhosts have the LIGHT tag so that hellions can chase them down, thereby giving an actual vulnerability and counter play for mech Terrans.
The speed nerf alone is not enough.
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I think that I have yet to find pro games where SwarmHost looked broken.
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On August 22 2017 16:15 avilo wrote:
What do people think about my idea of making swarmhosts have the LIGHT tag so that hellions can chase them down, thereby giving an actual vulnerability and counter play for mech Terrans.
The speed nerf alone is not enough.
Whenever I see you play against swarm host you complain about them a lot but then win in the end anyway. Are you sure they are as bad as you make them out to be?
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On August 22 2017 13:39 SHODAN wrote:
make cyclones microable again
scrap the 1A ground weapon and bring back ground-to-ground lock-on
Yes. Also for protoss, make charge microable for the player.. with counter micro for enemy..
For stalker, make his blink with a much shorter cooldown, but lower range on it and some drawback to the ability. Immobile for 1sec after blink maybe.. Or something. Then increase stalker stats. Maybe 7range? Fits well with the slower attack.
Need more micro.
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On August 22 2017 16:15 avilo wrote:
What do people think about my idea of making swarmhosts have the LIGHT tag so that hellions can chase them down, thereby giving an actual vulnerability and counter play for mech Terrans.
The speed nerf alone is not enough.
Could see this work. At the same time, i want the swarmhost to work more like a tactic weapon instead of strategic weapon.
Less cost of, less mobility, less power. More vulnerabilites.
Should be a perfect weapon against a base which has no units there or has the wrong type of units there(siege tanks, storm, colossus, immortal).
So its a good tool to draw the enemy somewhere. To keep him busy somewhere. While zerg attacks/do something else with his other units.. Or sometimes protect them. Forces the enemy to come to the swarmhosts.
Right now this doesnt happen if i know correct( dont follow lotv, but watched hots, cant see much of a difference).
And then increase micro of roach with its burrow. Would love to see some micro for hydra added.. But stalker should get the +1 range imo so stalker works more of hit and run type.
Not sure what to make of hydra but something different than a kite unit.
First idea i get is that after it has fired, its acceleration gets increased for a short while.
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On August 22 2017 17:15 Foxxan wrote:
First idea i get is that after it has fired, its acceleration gets increased for a short while.
It's kind of nice to have a honest unit without any weird gimmicks.
If a zerg unit needs help right now I'm pretty sure it's not the hydra
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On August 22 2017 17:18 WaesumNinja wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2017 17:15 Foxxan wrote:
First idea i get is that after it has fired, its acceleration gets increased for a short while.
It's kind of nice to have a honest unit without any weird gimmicks.
Iam just brainstorming...........................
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On August 22 2017 17:20 Foxxan wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2017 17:18 WaesumNinja wrote:On August 22 2017 17:15 Foxxan wrote:
First idea i get is that after it has fired, its acceleration gets increased for a short while.
It's kind of nice to have a honest unit without any weird gimmicks. Iam just brainstorming...........................
Of course but when was the last time you used hydras and found them lackluster?
It's not my point to shoot you down, but a unit being "clunky" (not sure a hydraulisk qualifies as clunky) gives them an inherent weakness that isn't just some arbitrary number like having bonus damage dealt to them by some unit. Hydras compared to roaches deal more damage with a longer range but they are also more brittle and they move slower so they're easier to catch.
Which in a way moves the "micro the hydra" over to microing the supporting units to protect them, like lings or roaches. We don't really need to change this by making hydras very microable on their own. We could instead argue that we make hydras longer ranged, but slower, in my opinion.
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On August 22 2017 17:15 Foxxan wrote:
Right now this doesnt happen if i know correct( dont follow lotv, but watched hots, cant see much of a difference).
I'm sorry, but what are we talking about?
Hots and Lotv are entirely different games.. Lotv itself changed a lot from release. I get that you want to brainstorm and discuss, but it's hard if you don't follow the game, no?
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On August 22 2017 07:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2017 07:13 VHbb wrote:On August 22 2017 07:01 [PkF] Wire wrote:
The test map is enjoyable. I need to hit strong players to see how difficult it has really become to handle early game aggression without a msc, but so far I find getting more units in the early game works just fine.
Recall is VERY abusive imo, especially lategame, on Nexi and or Mothership alike. The new stalker feels strong, monitoring blink timings again might become a necessity. I like the new overcharge, although making it 25 energy (like it was in HotS) would maybe make it more flexible.
Overall, promising. The interesting thing is that in the end, the game doesn't change much for people like me who already played blink colossi vT. So it's a "major" patch since the msc gets removed, but the overall feel of the game is preserved, this is good imo. How do you feel with the 4s delay associated with the recall ability? Does it feel too long, or sounds like a fair time? As a defender, you can get some free kills but it's not very punishing for the P. I think the radius and the low tech requirement are abusive. But I hope the ability itself stays. Having it to be researched could be interesting.
I feel like the recall on nexus should have really small radius (something around strom or forcefiled radius) so could be used only on small tactical forces but the cost of recall should be decreased to 75 energy so it could be used vs chrono/shield as on 100energy I feel like it won't be used much (too restrictive).
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EPT
