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StarCraft II Multiplayer - Major Design Changes - Page 20
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Siegetank_Dieter1
117 Posts
Get rid of ravagers, adepts, liberators. | ||
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CyanApple
48 Posts
If the shield recharge ability of the nexus is supposed to help out defending the Protoss' wall, maps with a pocket expansion are not viable anymore, because in the main the nexus is usually too far away from the wall. For this ability to be effective it would make sense to play around with the numbers of the nexus energy a bit, such that you can already use a fair amount of energy right after building it for shield energy, but not for chronoboost. From there you need to see how much shield is supposed to be regenerated per energy. | ||
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Luongo
Canada15 Posts
As it stands, using full nexus energy on chrono alone will equate to the same build reduction as current chrono, but with more flexibility in saving up energy to power out certain things. However, with photon overcharge being removed, and the new shield recharge "defense mechanic" requiring nexus energy as well, protoss is receiving a nerf. I also forsee them having great trouble securing a third base against Zerg, considering photon overcharge is stronger than this new shield mechanic, and it requires the third base to be fully built and have energy to do anything defensive. I hope they can remedy this, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the MSC come back again after they are unsuccessful in doing so. The disruptor change at first glance seems like a wash, but it's actually a large nerf to the unit. You can now block disruptor shots with a single cheap unit by putting it in the line of fire, causing it to blow up prematurely and deal little damage. Also, when using with zealots, you can no longer direct the shot past the front line to avoid friendly fire. The shots will explode ontop of the units the zealots are attacking, killing them as well. Lastly, the disruptor becomes extremely awkward in situations where units like zerglings or roaches etc get on top of them inside your own army. This will cause the shots to explode ontop of the disruptor and potentially wipe out a lot of your own units. Unit will be terrible after this change, so I don't forsee it going through. The Nexus Recall ability will grow in power as the game progresses, and become extremely potent late game, where energy for shield recharge and chronoboost isn't needed. Unfortunately, what protoss really needs is an answer for early game defense, which this won't be that useful for. I feel like it's going to be very hard to rebalance early mid game protoss without the MSC. I hope they can do it, but the real solution would have been stronger gateway units and no warpgate, and that will obviously never happen. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
Literally ANYTHING else is fine, they will figure it out, but the MSC absolutely HAD TO GO. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17791 Posts
all they need to do now is call the mineral patches Tiberium and change their colour from blue to green.  | ||
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beheamothsc
19 Posts
On August 21 2017 00:44 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote: How to make the game even better ? Get rid of ravagers, adepts, liberators. great! just re release hots! | ||
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Siegetank_Dieter1
117 Posts
Thats actually a good idea. Or even better, re-release wings of liberty, fix the balance problems ---> Perfect RTS. Et Voila. No more stupid bandaids or bad designed units like adept shades, ravagers, liberators, BC blink, swarmhosts, reaper grenade, warpprism pickup range, queen range, cyclones, widow mines,...... etc. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On August 21 2017 05:51 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote: Thats actually a good idea. Or even better, re-release wings of liberty, fix the balance problems ---> Perfect RTS. Et Voila. No more stupid bandaids or bad designed units like adept shades, ravagers, liberators, BC blink, swarmhosts, reaper grenade, warpprism pickup range, queen range, cyclones, widow mines,...... etc. Reaper grenades were actually in the alpha, although they were a bit closer to spider mines if i recall correctly. I'd prefer reapers to have spider mines that just do increased explosive damage and not send units flying around. At least for TvP that is. Mech would actually be viable in that match up. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
On August 21 2017 05:51 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote: LOL! WOL was awful.Thats actually a good idea. Or even better, re-release wings of liberty, fix the balance problems ---> Perfect RTS. Et Voila. No more stupid bandaids or bad designed units like adept shades, ravagers, liberators, BC blink, swarmhosts, reaper grenade, warpprism pickup range, queen range, cyclones, widow mines,...... etc. | ||
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FvRGg
68 Posts
On August 21 2017 06:09 ReachTheSky wrote: Reaper grenades were actually in the alpha, although they were a bit closer to spider mines if i recall correctly. I'd prefer reapers to have spider mines that just do increased explosive damage and not send units flying around. At least for TvP that is. Mech would actually be viable in that match up. 1. Buff barracks unit without changing other already strong barracks units 2. leave factory units unchanged 3. ???? 4. Mech is viable ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? | ||
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VHbb
692 Posts
On August 21 2017 02:26 ihatevideogames wrote: I can't understand people who non-ironically defend 1click-defense by shooting pylons. Literally ANYTHING else is fine, they will figure it out, but the MSC absolutely HAD TO GO. I never really understood the hate for the MSC, I actually quite enjoy using it, and I don't see how it could be considered overpowered - but clearly my opinion is partly biased by the fact that I play protoss, and partly by the fact that I'm low level. Overall - it seems the hate for the MSC from Z and T is at such level that it will be hardly reintroduced, which I found kind of sad, since I don't read often many arguments against it (a part from "it absolutely HAD TO GO" which is not really an argument - and I'm not criticizing you specifically since you maybe had arguments in other posts, but it is often the case). Perhaps without additional tool for early P defense (the shield battery nexus is quite a downgrade compared to photon-overcharge), the boost ability for the medivac could be removed. | ||
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Siegetank_Dieter1
117 Posts
Their reasoning basically says "we nerf bio, because mech is bad". If you want to help mech out you could make armory cheaper or combine mech upgrades again. This could reduce the high investment of getting a mech production going. Also the new mule could make mech unnecessary harder to balance, because of how much more random timings could be... but that are just my thoughts so far. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
On August 21 2017 09:45 VHbb wrote: I never really understood the hate for the MSC, I actually quite enjoy using it, and I don't see how it could be considered overpowered - but clearly my opinion is partly biased by the fact that I play protoss, and partly by the fact that I'm low level. Overall - it seems the hate for the MSC from Z and T is at such level that it will be hardly reintroduced, which I found kind of sad, since I don't read often many arguments against it (a part from "it absolutely HAD TO GO" which is not really an argument - and I'm not criticizing you specifically since you maybe had arguments in other posts, but it is often the case). Perhaps without additional tool for early P defense (the shield battery nexus is quite a downgrade compared to photon-overcharge), the boost ability for the medivac could be removed. I think it's pretty obvious why 1-click anti-everything defense is a bad thing for the game. It allows toss to do silly stuff such as going proxy stargate while taking a fast 3rd. Every time I saw a pro match where the toss just took a free 3rd when all he had was an Oracle and 2 Adepts I just facepalmed. Or when 2 Pylons defended against 2 full medivacs worth of units, while the toss player had 0 actual units in his base. It's just bad design that creates bad gameplay and it needs to go. Doesn't matter if toss suffers for a while because of it, find another solution, but design wise, it's bad for the game. | ||
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VHbb
692 Posts
On August 21 2017 11:18 ihatevideogames wrote: I think it's pretty obvious why 1-click anti-everything defense is a bad thing for the game. It allows toss to do silly stuff such as going proxy stargate while taking a fast 3rd. Every time I saw a pro match where the toss just took a free 3rd when all he had was an Oracle and 2 Adepts I just facepalmed. Or when 2 Pylons defended against 2 full medivacs worth of units, while the toss player had 0 actual units in his base. It's just bad design that creates bad gameplay and it needs to go. Doesn't matter if toss suffers for a while because of it, find another solution, but design wise, it's bad for the game. Clearly not "pretty obviously" otherwise I wouldn't have asked  (But I guess it's just a dismissive tone you use) I won't answer to the "bad design" claim because in all honesty I don't know what that means: it looks like something that is often used to replace "I don't like it" (Kind of like the word "gimmick") However - I don't think it's a 1click defense: it requires proper pylon positioning (and investment, since often you go quite over supply to cover all the bases early) and proper MSc positioning and movement (it is as much as a turret is a 1click defense against oracles, which I don't think it is) - for sure it's not anti everything, you don't need really many units to avoid the pylon or just focus them down I also don't get why often terran on ladder (at my low level at least) don't try to bait it: you have very mobile medivacs..(maybe here I'm missing something since I don't play T, and I don't know the race well) Overall, without it (in any form, even the nexus cannon), I always felt like the early game is 100% terran territory, unless the protoss goes for full cheese. Two medivacs can pin me down to my bases, and applying early pressure becomes really difficult. Since perhaps this is the feeling that *now* Terrans have (W/ overcharge in the game), an intermediate solution could be more interesting. I don't know what this could be, and surely testing the shield battery nexus will be interesting, but I don't like to enter this testing / patching phase with the assumption that the MSc *has to go* .. | ||
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Topin
Peru10126 Posts
-Scrambler Missile: i see potencial in this ability, i kinda like it. -Repair Drone: i dont like it, its a medic for mech and i don think it should exist. if you want to repair mech bring scvs or drop mules. it also last way too much. -Shredder Missile: i really dont see a spell that reduce armor have a place in SC, let those spell on WC although i havent seen a fight with the -armor on the enemy army. i dont know if the reduction of armor is enough to compensate for the little damage it does | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
why would i ever drop a mule on gas? when do i ever need mroe gas as terran? maybe with new raven, there will be a reason to harvest gas as this race | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
On August 21 2017 12:09 c0sm0naut wrote: as a masters random why would i ever drop a mule on gas? when do i ever need mroe gas as terran? maybe with new raven, there will be a reason to harvest gas as this race they are clearly trying to make T play mech more often, with the other buffs, so mule on gas makes sense actually. however, at least in PvT, playing vs mech (sample of 4 games) has been super easy. almost BW-like. 4 base 12 gates and tons of chargelots w some stalker rams through a 150 sup tank/raven/othermech army (when u should max) and trades well. then T can't hold a third. T will need more mech buffs, to the actual ground army. and I haven't seen the repair drones hold up against a full-on frontal push. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
Mech is not made better by the raven changes or other changes, because ravens are being severely nerfed. A repair drone is un-necessary for mech and massively worse than PDD. The seeker missile is being flat out nerfed for zero reason. Why would i want -3 armor on a unit for 2-3 seconds for 30 dmg when i can just have the seeker missile we have now that will KILL EVERYTHING for 100 dmg + splash? It's pretty ludicrous people are claiming this new seeker is good when it's extremely bad. And finally the scrambler missile...well this is massively better than auto-turrets, that's the only successful change to the raven. PDD and seeker missile should stay as they are until both carriers and swarmhosts are also nerfed more for the other two races. The changes to mech AA are also basically non-existent. Cyclones are still meh and widow mines are being nerfed for no reason. Why do mines need to be spotted after being used? Are DTS going to correspondingly be visible after they attack something? What about burrowed banes that can end the game in an instant? This change is really bad and unnecessary, not to mention it's actually a huge nerf to mech. A lot of mech players like me heavily use widow mines in TvZ when playing non-mass raven mech styles. I also think carriers still are completely dominating mech and Zerg late game and interceptors should be expensive at 25 minerals as they used to be so that carriers are not massable late game or at least so they have a weakness as they used to. So if a Protoss makes carriers you can kill the interceptors to bankrupt them. It's really depressing right now killing 100 interceptors and seeing the Protoss still clean up all your gas units, and then come back 30 seconds later with fully loaded interceptors because they cost absolutely nothing. Swarmhosts i have another suggestion that will make them more manageable - MAKE SWARMHOSTS HAVE THE LIGHT TAG. This will allow hellions to be able to chase them down in TvZ. That change alone would have a huge impact without changing many other unit statistics or values on the unit. Despite the fact i think swarmhosts are absurd and should be nerf hammered even harder, at least a light tag can make them manageable for a meching Terran. | ||
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