• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:06
CEST 20:06
KST 03:06
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down9ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier3Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League52Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.164
StarCraft 2
General
REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
Young Players Tournament Announced by SOOP Do we even care about balance? BW General Discussion SCHNAIL now supports Remastered Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL23] RO24 Group Stage [ASL22] Grand Finals
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Chess Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8698 users

StarCraft II Multiplayer - Major Design Changes - Page 11

Forum Index > SC2 General
832 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 42 Next All
Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 03:45:45
August 18 2017 03:41 GMT
#201
edit: didn't read changes closely enough, nvm

new zvp skytoss vs skyzerg will be super awkward >_>
Team Liquid
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 03:54:17
August 18 2017 03:53 GMT
#202
Raven is pretty dead. No way you make more than 3 of them in certain mech comps. The strength of the raven was that it could cause things to die. The shredder missile is going to be terribly weak if the current time to hit exists. I guess it makes your opponent think about walking backwards? Why not have a laser designator turret or something that dramatically reduces armor on a single target in range?

Disabling damage and abilities but not movement (i.e., crappy lockdown) will be pretty awful. You would have to cast it on the entirety of the enemies units and then hope he doesn't walk backwards. That is a lot of APM cast single target spells that don't do any damage.

Further, why aren't these the same abilities? Shock Missile: 100, disables attacks and abilities and reduces armor by 5. The raven doesn't need two debuff/dd spells.
franzji
Profile Joined September 2013
United States583 Posts
August 18 2017 03:53 GMT
#203
the more I think about it the more I think Terran is just getting huge buffs (to mech most importantly) while zerg is getting worse, protoss is just sorta getting worse, but easier to play for noobs.

anyways...
ShambhalaWar
Profile Joined August 2013
United States930 Posts
August 18 2017 04:51 GMT
#204
I already thought vespene geysers had WAYYYYY too many minerals and now they want to increase that amount?!

0_0
omop
Profile Joined April 2017
46 Posts
August 18 2017 04:54 GMT
#205
Not sure why big mineral nodes were buffed. I think it would be more meaningful if they change big/small node ratio. changing it to 5/3 or 6/2 would give more resources earlier. I think that would be more meaningful change and a nice compromise between LOTV and HOTS
ShadowTrois
Profile Joined August 2017
3 Posts
August 18 2017 04:57 GMT
#206
On August 18 2017 12:30 digmouse wrote:
It is probably leaked by a outsourced localization team.


Actually it was leaked by a user named johnhsq from tieba.baidu.com a.k.a. 百度贴吧.
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6332 Posts
August 18 2017 05:05 GMT
#207
On August 18 2017 13:57 ShadowTrois wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 12:30 digmouse wrote:
It is probably leaked by a outsourced localization team.


Actually it was leaked by a user named johnhsq from tieba.baidu.com a.k.a. 百度贴吧.

I know, the one who leaked it probably got the info from said source.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
xtorn
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
4067 Posts
August 18 2017 05:18 GMT
#208
WOW!
Super interesting. Respect to the new design team for boldly go where no one has gone before -the realm of major unit reverts and major gameplay rethinking in the name of progress.
<3 things - Life | Kane | Innovation | Scarlett | Solar | MMA
bObA
Profile Joined May 2012
France300 Posts
August 18 2017 05:57 GMT
#209
On August 18 2017 12:41 Liquid`Snute wrote:
edit: didn't read changes closely enough, nvm

new zvp skytoss vs skyzerg will be super awkward >_>


That would be interesting to have your opinion about that
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5226 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 06:04:57
August 18 2017 06:04 GMT
#210
On August 18 2017 07:24 The_Templar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2017 07:23 Thezzy wrote:
On August 18 2017 06:50 The_Templar wrote:
If the mothership core is being removed, I might actually start playing again. Hated that unit. Overall, the changes look great to me.


This. As a Terran player I utterly hated that thing. Pretty much meant Protoss early game in TvP could play extremely greedy and rely on the Mothership Core for defense against any early aggression. Coupled with the game ending harass Protoss could throw at you in the form of Proxy Oracle or Warp Prism + Adept, it made the early game feel very one-sided with Protoss having all the aggressive options (each of which requires a different response) whilst being able to hide behind the MSC if it failed. It probably isn't that black and white but it sure as hell felt like it when a Proxy Oracle flies headfirst into a Widow Mine and you can't punish Protoss for it with a counter-attack.

Funny thing is I'm protoss. I hated using it - completely felt like a gimmick and just really annoying to control between multiple bases.


Yeah it is garbage, and it has been garbage since it was designed.

I literally cannot wait to play this game again.
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
August 18 2017 06:06 GMT
#211
I'm reading through comments and can't stop facepalming. What are you guys talking about? good riddance, PO? Protoss is too strong in early game? Protoss shutdowns agressive play vs terran? What in hell is this?
PO is the only tool that's keeping protoss population above 22% on ladder. Because protoss gate units LACK damage in small numbers. How did we defend vs terran bio pushes in WoL? Right, mass sentries. Was it balanced? NO. No kind of sheild battery will save protoss, cause it's not about DPS, where are we gonna get DPS to fend off agression?

And i fucking love this when blizzard just goes all the fucking way around a shield battery from BW that was removed from the initial game for the sake of making SC2 a bit more different from original title, and then after 7 years jumps out of the bush and like: OMG we got a solution for you! a shield recharge ability on .... NEXUS! and everyone is like "WOW its so innovative!" What is wrong with you people? And of course you didnt notice how disruptor is finally becoming a reaver, did you? This unit had undergone a HUGE amount of variations/testing but guess what. They failed to find any better design. But they will never accept that fact, no. Dev team is doing a great job, boo me. This is just disgusting to watch. Because that pretty much summs up their level of competence. I hate the sole fact i'm dependant on them because this game is a big part of my life, and the only thing i want them to do is get their hands off it, but no, i'm being too selfish. The only thing im regretting now is ditching BW years ago.
Less is more.
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24604 Posts
August 18 2017 06:48 GMT
#212
A lot of micro is being removed such as with the Obs change it seems. PvP will also turn out to be the good old Stalker rush fests with the new stronger Stalkers and no MSC.
Vanadiel
Profile Joined April 2012
France961 Posts
August 18 2017 06:55 GMT
#213
On August 18 2017 15:48 Heartland wrote:
A lot of micro is being removed such as with the Obs change it seems. PvP will also turn out to be the good old Stalker rush fests with the new stronger Stalkers and no MSC.


Not so sure about it, you'd need observers to gain high ground vision now, and with much stronger tanks, without blink I don't see it that strong.
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France13023 Posts
August 18 2017 07:07 GMT
#214
Will terran still be fun? (Bio being really strong) or will it be mech only race?
WriterMaru
Fatam
Profile Joined June 2012
1986 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 07:21:10
August 18 2017 07:19 GMT
#215
Hmm pretty interesting stuff. I'm glad they are shaking things up. I agree with some of the people saying that the shield battery thing and slight stalker buff won't be enough to help hold off early bio timings and such. They will hopefully see that and make more changes accordingly.

I also think people might be underrating the raven ability lockdown thing a bit. Although of course you won't want more than a few ravens.

I wonder if ghosts starting with cloak is a bigger deal than people realize.

Even though it's one of the minor changes there was one implementation that really made me cringe:

When dropped from a Warp Prism the Disruptor’s Purification Nova will be set to a brief cooldown. As it felt a little too strong vs worker lines otherwise.


That is really unintuitive, they need to find a better way
Not a fan of weird bandaid rules like that
Search "FTM" in SC2 | Latest Maps: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/528528-2-ftm-siegfried-station http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/525489-2-ftm-crimson-aftermath http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/524737-2-ftm-grime
Nyarly
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
France1030 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 07:33:24
August 18 2017 07:33 GMT
#216
I won't comment on gameplay changes, but I cannot let this go :
[image loading]

the mule is smiling at me.
bjornkavist
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1235 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 07:36:25
August 18 2017 07:36 GMT
#217
"God damnit Blizzard, don't do this!"
"It's done. Send the mothership cores out of orbit. We're moving out..."
https://soundcloud.com/bbols
washikie
Profile Joined February 2011
United States752 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-18 07:49:24
August 18 2017 07:39 GMT
#218
I am really unsure about how no ms core will play out, on one hand I'm happy I've hated the bandaid nature of the unit and its ability to act as a catch all in the early game with no scouting information. But I just don't see how toss will hold early game rushes without it. Mabey with new recall Protoss can build early game hit squads to put pressure on than just recall back allowing them to expand? I'm hoping so because if this tactic does not work I don't see how Protoss will be able to deal with aggressive e Terran and Zerg builds that can hit before Protoss has more than 1 or 2 units to stop them. It was less needed in wol because Terran did not have widowmine drops and Zergs did not have ravager to kill forge fast expands. But I'm just worried that gateway units won't be out in time to take advantage of shield recharging and recall.


I love the ideas and intent of these changes, I'm just worried about how they will work if implemented. It took a long time and lots of timing adjustments to get the current early game ballance, I think we will be in for a long slog to get this change worked out.
"when life gives Hero lemons he makes carriers" -Artosis
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
August 18 2017 07:42 GMT
#219
Protoss indeed will be in trouble without MSCore especially in TvP. BIO is too strong since the beginning of sc2 and this is the source of most bandaids in the game.

Revert to WOL> Nerf BIO> Balance game around that> Slowly add units from HOTS and LoTv> problem solved.
Ultima Ratio Regum
fLyiNgDroNe
Profile Joined September 2005
Belgium4148 Posts
August 18 2017 07:55 GMT
#220
the hell with all the changes, but the freaking shooting pylon is gone. It only took them what 4 (?) years to realize this is a bad game design? Such a relief.
Drone is a way of living
Prev 1 9 10 11 12 13 42 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 16h 55m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 2058
mouzHeroMarine 365
JuggernautJason53
BRAT_OK 49
EmSc Tv 16
MindelVK 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21880
Calm 2061
Shuttle 460
BeSt 257
actioN 225
Rush 185
EffOrt 136
Soulkey 126
firebathero 121
ProTech107
[ Show more ]
Dewaltoss 101
Mind 87
ToSsGirL 27
Hm[arnc] 24
Rock 23
Hyun 23
Shine 19
Free 17
yabsab 17
Bishop 12
Sacsri 12
JYJ 10
Dota 2
qojqva3334
League of Legends
KnowMe103
Counter-Strike
fl0m1631
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby3259
Liquid`Hasu129
Other Games
Gorgc3214
FrodaN1048
B2W.Neo968
Beastyqt622
RotterdaM216
ToD192
Hui .155
ViBE63
Trikslyr54
QueenE36
Organizations
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 16
EmSc2Tv 16
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hinosc 12
• Adnapsc2 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 16
• FirePhoenix13
• Michael_bg 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2210
League of Legends
• TFBlade1122
Other Games
• Shiphtur1264
• imaqtpie737
Upcoming Events
IntoTheTV X SOOP
16h 55m
Reynor vs Zoun
Neeb vs Rogue
OSC
1d 4h
FEL
2 days
Patches Events
2 days
AI Arena Tournament
2 days
FEL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-20
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.