EPTCommunity Feedback Update- April 13 - Page 5
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zealotstim
United States455 Posts
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plogamer
Canada3132 Posts
On April 14 2017 16:55 PPN wrote: I'm talking about from September 2016 though I forgot that in November things went back to normal for a short while. Also even as far as from beta Protoss got shafted for long periods on Lotv (early Lotv good times in PvZ lol). Unlike Terrans, Protoss players are not whiny enough. Probably a habit of being badmouthed for no good reason ever since BW. Maybe Protoss players should start to be whiny too. Protoss players whined and got rewarded with a nerf to liberators and mines. Bias can be a funny thing. Here's how you most likely filtered the above information: "Protoss players [gave valuable feedback] and [SC2 balance team responded with much needed changes] to liberators and mines." | ||
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R4iNy
Czech Republic8 Posts
As a high master/low GM Terran player I think that increasing cooldown of a shade is too little of a change, and reducing the HP's by 10 might be too drastic. So I would like to propose a middle way solution to the problem. I would increase the cooldown of a shade to 14 seconds like already proposed by the balance team and in addition to that I would make adepts a bit more vulnerable to attacks for a short period of time right after the shade is finished (like while warping in units, they take a bit more damage in the process) This would force protoss players to really think the action through, if it is really worth it to shade the adepts on top of the army and it would add a nice balanced disadvantage to the move as the shade itself ( on top of the army ) counters units that need to kited (Like bio, roaches, hydras, queens etc.) But on the otherside there would be no downside to the shade (such as reducing HP would be) if the defending players doesnt react in time for example while defending his mineral line. To compensate such a change I would boost the vision of a shade a little bit, so Protoss player and get enough information to make a final decision. I think this change could be balanced very easily, because the team can always change the duration of such debuff and can also tweak the percentage of damage taken bonus. | ||
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PPN
France248 Posts
On April 14 2017 17:26 plogamer wrote: Protoss players whined and got rewarded with a nerf to liberators and mines. Bias can be a funny thing. Here's how you most likely filtered the above information: "Protoss players [gave valuable feedback] and [SC2 balance team responded with much needed changes] to liberators and mines." There are whiners everywhere. I'm talking about the fact the Protoss players are defintely not as loud and vocal as Terran players on SC2. Somehow ever since SC2 and MKP and other fabulous micro monsters, Terran players got in their head that they are the skill race and if they don't win, something is wrong. Protoss has always been the easy scapegoat of everything that is wrong. Nobody seems to ever question if it's alright marines out-DPS everything but Carriers in this game, or why Medivac healing rate is so disproportionate than we need Storm, Adept glaives and Disruptors Nova which are designed to 1- or 2-shot marines to counter the healing effect to enable the Protoss army to kill something. Maybe we should redesign Terran bio instead of always focusing on Protoss gateway. | ||
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Creager
Germany1924 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On April 14 2017 09:58 Pokebunny wrote: 4 months of wrecking protoss and nothing? We had a VERY significant lib nerf and a mine nerf... the problem was never just tanks, it was the combo of units. Well considering they nerfed those two units and tank pushes still kill robo, tanks are probably the issue. | ||
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Creager
Germany1924 Posts
On April 14 2017 17:36 PPN wrote: There are whiners everywhere. I'm talking about the fact the Protoss players are defintely not as loud and vocal as Terran players on SC2. Could you please provide me with some sources for that "fact"? And what would differentiate yourself from those whiners you pointed out? The nerf to Liberators/Mines was totally justified, Terran was definitely overperforming, but so are Adepts. There absolutely needs to be some sort of risk/reward when building Adepts, as well as giving back purpose to Zealots other than being warped-in and thrown away offensively... Oh wait, you're using Adepts for that as well, right? In addition to that, the perception that Terran is the most difficult race doesn't come from nowhere, ever wondered why there are no foreign Terrans winning stuff (Thorzain probably the one and only at TSL3 and that was like 8 months after release of the game)? | ||
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Creager
Germany1924 Posts
On April 14 2017 17:45 Olli wrote: Well considering they nerfed those two units and tank pushes still kill robo, tanks are probably the issue. Maybe bring back old Immortal shields, then? Tanks should have their place in aiding with damage against a Protoss ground army, I'd really, really hate to see them nerfed into uselessness again (aside from TvT), it's one of the very few changes that were actually good in LotV. Tanks are siege units, they should pack some serious punch and as opponent you should respect a Tank line, not think "Uh, I just split my army into two packs and a-move to win!". | ||
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
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Elentos
55573 Posts
On April 14 2017 17:45 Olli wrote: Well considering they nerfed those two units and tank pushes still kill robo, tanks are probably the issue. So in what way do you propose the tank is changed, that A) doesn't make roach/ravager comps in TvZ too strong, B) doesn't involve the tankivac, and C) doesn't make the tank too weak against any early Protoss all-ins you see 1 in however many games? -20 shield damage? Can they even make a negative damage modifier? Huh. | ||
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My_Fake_Plastic_Luv
United States257 Posts
If this is too much, then give the shade a longer duration and/or increase the line of sight for the shade. But seriously actually fix the problem. | ||
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Aiobhill
Germany283 Posts
On April 14 2017 13:15 pvsnp wrote: If what you say is true, then everyone must feel extremely strange right now. Because PvT is at 57%. Even including the quoted 14 day period, Terran is still the leading race with 6% and Protoss still lagging at 3%. This means probably another 57% month would be needed to fucking restore balance in the first place. Either this feedback update is Kim's farewell shit or the remaining crew - probably 1 janitor and 1/2 intern - have as much bias and as little clue about math as he had. | ||
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QuinnTheEskimo
Germany55 Posts
The adept is cheap for its utility. This remains true, even if both nerfs were applied. For the sake of diversity I would not like to see this as a general problem and keep the adept powerful. I'd like to try limiting its utility by making the twilight council a prerequisite for the adept. It would mean P can't open with an adept as the first unit being built. This has so many implications that others _CAN_ profit from, without killing the adept option for the P. I don't know if that helps in ZvP, but in TvP I know this opens opportunities to keep the P from getting a big adept army, which appears tends to be exceptionally cost efficient. I'd like this change b/c it offers opportunities instead of taking things away. | ||
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Chewbacca1
11 Posts
Is it not possible to weaken the adapt when shade is active? Say, reduce attack speed. I think that would not impact straight up engagements that badly, but decently reduce the harassment potential. | ||
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Elentos
55573 Posts
On April 14 2017 18:06 Aiobhill wrote: Even including the quoted 14 day period, Terran is still the leading race with 6% and Protoss still lagging at 3%. This means probably another 57% month would be needed to fucking restore balance in the first place. The leading/lagging race takes the mean Aligulac rating of the top 5 players of each race, so unless the 57% winrate causes the Terrans to have a massive (and I mean gigantic) rating drop, it likely won't. The top 5 Terrans all dropped in rating during the last period (INnoVation by over 80 points) and herO and Neeb had very big upswings, and all it amounted to was a 3% change on leading/lagging. The leading/lagging statistic is realistically not very helpful either, since ratings are skewed for one or another reason. | ||
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PPN
France248 Posts
On April 14 2017 17:58 Creager wrote: Could you please provide me with some sources for that "fact"? And what would differentiate yourself from those whiners you pointed out? The nerf to Liberators/Mines was totally justified, Terran was definitely overperforming, but so are Adepts. There absolutely needs to be some sort of risk/reward when building Adepts, as well as giving back purpose to Zealots other than being warped-in and thrown away offensively... Oh wait, you're using Adepts for that as well, right? In addition to that, the perception that Terran is the most difficult race doesn't come from nowhere, ever wondered why there are no foreign Terrans winning stuff (Thorzain probably the one and only at TSL3 and that was like 8 months after release of the game)? Sit down and take a sip of tea. I'm talking about my impression. In my experience Zerg players are usually strangely mute even when Zergs are garbage, Protoss kinda whiny and Terran very whiny even when they have the upper hand. That also shows in my message log whenever I get insulted on ladder. No need to feel triggered and ask for facts and cold hard numbers anytime anyone dare to speak a view different from yours. Btw I don't whine. I'm just doing a snarky comment regarding pro games. In fact I personally am very fine with the current state of the game because that means I play a lot fewer PvP on ladder lately and Terran players play in an overconfident way that allow me to have fun and do weird stuff. Terran is likely the most difficult race but at the level of the foreign scene, not in absolute. Current ladder and Korean scene show hints that this perception may not hold much ground, at least not anymore. | ||
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Penev
28528 Posts
On April 14 2017 03:08 Olli wrote: Nothing about tanks, great stuff. One month of Protoss doing well vs Terran and they're patching, 4 months of tanks wrecking Protoss and still nothing. Classic Blizzard, only listening to the loudest balance whine which always, always, always comes from the Terran part of the community. You have to nerf tanks if you're nerfing adepts, or we'll be right back at 40% winrate for PvT. What I and a lot of people dislike about the adept is that even if you manage the attack on your mineral lines decently you'll still lose a lot of workers because of the survivability of it. This complaint has been present basically since the introduction of the unit. I ask: Don't you agree with that complaint? Classic Blizzard, only listening to the loudest balance whine which always, always, always comes from the Terran part of the community. I think an admin should be above a notion like this, certainly not feed it. About the nerf: I prefer the hp nerf because it does 3 things: - Adepts die faster so less dead workers - Adepts die faster so less (no?) shading on top of opponents army - We'll hopefully see more Zealots (as meat shield) I do share your concern about what this might do to balance of course. Hopefully Blizzard does too. | ||
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SSMMA
15 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On April 14 2017 18:05 Elentos wrote: So in what way do you propose the tank is changed, that A) doesn't make roach/ravager comps in TvZ too strong, B) doesn't involve the tankivac, and C) doesn't make the tank too weak against any early Protoss all-ins you see 1 in however many games? -20 shield damage? Can they even make a negative damage modifier? Huh. Buff units that protoss needs to deal with them, namely colossi or stalkers. Chargelots used to be a counter to exactly this, but I still can't see them as a reliable opening in a game where mines and liberators exist and are part of the attack. You could also look into bringing back siege mode. It's not about tanks in general, it's all about that one specific timing. Making it hit later, or have protoss have better defense at that point shouldn't be hard to do. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
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