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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
Except that adepts are so easy to use and if zerg misses an inject cycle, gets supply blocked or lose some drones because of adept harass the game is over, because protoss is even on economy until 3 base saturation. As long as people don't understand that what's wrong with this game are the strategies that are easy to use and hard to defend, it will always be frustrating to play. | ||
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My_Fake_Plastic_Luv
United States257 Posts
Instead of reducing any of the stats, get rid of the ability to cancel shade! It's honestly a perfect fix. | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
Honestly, I also think if they decreased the damage a little bit or removed the light bonus it would probably suffice, not sure them 2 shot killing workers is a good dynamic, but the HP nerf is definitely warranted, honestly both nerfs kind of are, but not without the desperately needed Stalker buff happening. | ||
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Ishmael
92 Posts
I don't know. I'm sure there's a fix. But the masses of people talking about how adepts are so easy to use or how evil protoss needs to be shamed for trying to win with the units at their disposal seems kind of besides the point... What's a protoss buff that would make their units stronger without seeming too much? I think the problem is in giving protoss a unit that 1) is good in the early game, good enough to be aggressive (with positioning and aggressive builds), but not too powerful... 2) is good in the late game, and continue to be a 'core' to the army, allowing gateway armies -> gateway armies with support, not gateway armies -> as much tier 3 as you can get. This seems to me what makes both Terran and Zerg so fun -- multiple compositions, some high-tech, some supported low-tech, some totally different units .... So how could we do that? The obvious answer, as far as I can see, is to introduce an upgrade that is kind of far off but also really useful... (the early protoss units, as the blink era suggests, can turn into early-game overpowered way to easily). Maybe give the stalker a +5 dps researched from the robo bay? Then you have the choice of that or Colos, at least for a while... Hell, put it on another building! But now I'm just spitballing. This would probably result in imba superstalker + colo builds. But still, I think adepts continue to be frustrating because they are only useful in certain specific, and hard to ascertain, situations. Do 20 roaches beat 25 adepts? I'm never sure until they're in my base. | ||
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PPN
France248 Posts
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wiNgiAN
17 Posts
Btw when are you going to nerf the BC teleport? it shouldnt Teleport if they get any dmg 2-3 seconds before or something that affect their tp, because in PvT is very annoying how bcs kills everything and just tps away, making impossible to stop the count of bcs from turttle terrans, because protoss dont have infestors with fungals that can trap bcs, so please, keep that in mind too. | ||
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Athenau
571 Posts
On April 14 2017 06:57 PPN wrote: Great! An unconditional nerf! I can't wait for another 4 months or even more -hell why not- of 40% PvT winrates. There were two months (not four) where PvT winrates hovered near 40%: http://aligulac.com/misc/balance/ The last two periods were 49.72% and 57.08% respectively. http://aligulac.com/periods/185/?sort=&race=ptzrs&nats=all http://aligulac.com/periods/186/?sort=&race=ptzrs&nats=all | ||
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DIMAGA
Ukraine38 Posts
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Thaniri
1264 Posts
The attacker/defender relationship in the PvT meta has been flipped. Terrans attacked for 6 years+, they can try defending for a few months. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Health nerf would be more appropriate because it affects both PvT and PvZ. Shade CD would help Zergs, but wouldn't do anything about Adept/Phoenix. And for all the disingenuous people bitching about PvT going back to 40%– PvT is currently at 57%. http://aligulac.com/periods/186/ | ||
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FarmI3oy
United States255 Posts
www.youtube.com Same worker number start. Same number of workers per patch. This allows for quick saturation of all 3 bases, and makes players more likely to trade units. | ||
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Alienship
China27 Posts
On April 14 2017 05:18 Weltall wrote: I really don't understand blizzard tought process behind patches. If we consider adepts: why they are "overpowered" ? 1 -> because they are overused units If so, there are lots of overused units for terrans and zergs: why no one cares about them? Also, an overused units means that there is no other efficient alternative to use, otherwise we should see more kind of plays revolving around different units. 2 -> because they do in general lots of damage If so, the winrates should be strongly in favor of protoss. If they are such a powerful units, winrates should reflect it, also race population should show an increase in protoss players since the op units will just carry th players. Instead, we have totally the opposite. From what I read, blizzard problem is a stale meta problem, with adepts being used too much in pvz and pvt. But as other people better than me in the game stated, if you nerf adepts you should also provide a solution to stale meta. I see just one direction about protoss since lotv come out, and it's nerfing them. I found this just unfair, not because the race is becoming more difficult or weak, but because dev team seems to not care doing things well and resolving problems as whole. I can't agree more with what you said. The essential reason why mass adepts populate PvT and PvZ is because there is barely any other via options for the Protoss. What's more, this began as a trend after widow mine was nerfed. Instead of toning down siege tank damage, Blizzard nerfed widow mine. Blizzard was literally the only ONE responsible for the current situation, yet the guy leading the balance team just left. In general, the meta of game was screwed up at the beginning of LotV. The introduction of adept and liberator wreck the game, as well as the buffed siege tank. Without fundamental changes to these units, and maybe some other units as well, the balance can never be as good as it was in HotS. | ||
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Alienship
China27 Posts
On April 14 2017 08:24 pvsnp wrote: Great to see that Blizzard is on the ball! With all the focus on Adepts, it's good to see that they aren't afraid to apply some necessary nerfs. Health nerf would be more appropriate because it affects both PvT and PvZ. Shade CD would help Zergs, but wouldn't do anything about Adept/Phoenix. And for all the disingenuous people bitching about PvT going back to 40%– PvT is currently at 57%. http://aligulac.com/periods/186/ I'd like to see some win rates for non-progamer matches. Also, I'm not against toning down the power of mass adepts. However, since "Blizzard aren't afraid to apply some necessary nerfs", I expect they nerf the tank or buff up stalker / zealot as well. Otherwise, it will always be a biased patch that creates more problems. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
I'd like to see some win rates for non-progamer matches. Also, I'm not against toning down the power of mass adepts. However, since "Blizzard aren't afraid to apply some necessary nerfs", I expect they nerf the tank or buff up stalker / zealot as well. Otherwise, it will always be a biased patch that creates more problems. One problem at a time. I would like to see a Stalker buff as well, but that's not on the table right now. Non-progamer matches should always be close to 50% winrate right? Isn't that the whole point of matchmaking? | ||
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skilltalant
6 Posts
Adept sends a shade, during the last second of the shade it cant move (or cancel) the shade any more and adepts start warping in to the new location. They cant move or attack during this time but can take damage (their physical body is "afk" at previous or target location for u to decide). This will actually punish mistakes of not canceling shades if u wait till the last second and give time to catch up with the shades and the "afk" time of adepts counters their imba high hp. Besides that sc2 is killed by all these stupid units that create frustration. Adept, oracle, immortal, void ray, blink, disruptor, reaper, mine, speed medivac, cyclone, freedom unit, baneling, ravager, muta regen and speed buff, new corruptor, free moving units, free high dmg turrets. WOL was the best sc2, except for the mothership and bl infestor. Maybe one day sc2 will be saved by fixing all these units + some total game play changes, but seeing how everything goes looks like not. | ||
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Alienship
China27 Posts
On April 14 2017 08:58 pvsnp wrote: One problem at a time. I would like to see a Stalker buff as well, but that's not on the table right now. Non-progamer matches should always be close to 50% winrate right? Isn't that the whole point of matchmaking? Win rates for non-progamer matches should INDEED be close to 50%. Ideally, 50% +/- 3% is acceptable. For buffing other units, if Blizzard only nerf adepts without buffing other units, then it is BIASED and definitely leading to more issues. It is not beyond their capabilities to address more than "one problem at a time". | ||
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Peggies
Philippines9 Posts
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On April 14 2017 03:08 Olli wrote: Nothing about tanks, great stuff. One month of Protoss doing well vs Terran and they're patching, 4 months of tanks wrecking Protoss and still nothing. Classic Blizzard, only listening to the loudest balance whine which always, always, always comes from the Terran part of the community. You have to nerf tanks if you're nerfing adepts, or we'll be right back at 40% winrate for PvT. 4 months of wrecking protoss and nothing? We had a VERY significant lib nerf and a mine nerf... the problem was never just tanks, it was the combo of units. | ||
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StraKo
Germany96 Posts
But if we can only choose between CD nerf and HP nerf, I'd go with the HP nerf. Adepts are too efficient in both harassment and straight up engagements. Adept play can quickly snowball out of control, if you take harassment damage, because protoss doesn't has to transition out of them, he can just keep building more adepts to overwhelm you with a follow up push. This obviously wouldn't be a problem, if adepts couldn't shade through every defense... | ||
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