EPT2017 WCS Challenger North America - Ruling - Page 3
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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AshC
United States328 Posts
Avilo, your horrible attitude and poor sportsmanship are well-known in this community. Frankly, they should make a documentary to show the dark side of eSports and you should be the main character. Don't come here and crying "I'm innocent" and asking for sympathy or support. Do you think us stupid or what? LOL. It amazes me sometimes how delusional a person can be. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On March 30 2017 17:11 AshC wrote: LOL. I often laugh off whatever things that Avilo does these days but now I wonder if this guy is a serious troll or very good at acting or he is in some kind of denial. Avilo, your horrible attitude and poor sportsmanship are well-known in this community. Frankly, they should make a documentary to show the dark side of eSports and you should be the main character. Don't come here and crying "I'm innocent" and asking for sympathy or support. Do you think us stupid or what? LOL. It amazes me sometimes how delusional a person can be. Idra is the main character and always will be followed up by incontrol just because his stare is meaner than my own grandmother's ;P | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
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Poopi
France12971 Posts
On March 30 2017 15:19 ReachTheSky wrote: They let other pros account share all the time, even when streaming. Blizzard is bias here. They only enforce rules vs people they don't like, they banned "hacker/account sharer" as an excuse/scapegoat to dq avilo. They don't like avilo. It's an oldboys club and everyone knows it, it always has been. If the powers that be don't like you, they will use whatever excuse they can to keep you out of the group. They like scarlett/neeb so they didn't ban them for sharing accounts the handful of times they did it on livestream. Why? Because it's an oldboys club. It's a shame because this type of conditional reinforcement of rules is what stifles growth in the longterm and is a major turn off. Edit: Even korean pros share accounts, blizzard doesn't do a damn thing about it. It's all malarky. Edit: Blizzard bans the "hacker/account sharer" only from the events, but allows the hacker to roam free on b.net. lol Bs. MarineLord and MajOr shared an account and MajOr iirc was screwed when MLorD gave free wins to Dns, so they punish account sharing when something "illegal" is done on the account. In the case of the hacker it was hack, in the case of pros it was free wins during ladder qualifications. | ||
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
They don't use those accounts in official blizzard tournaments When you use an account that is played on by multiple people in an official online-tournament (offline it is completely fine to use a shared account in theory as you can see the person playing) you don't know who is playing, or you could try to trick someone into believing you're playing but someone else is to give you a boost. On ladder it is the exact same effect of people not wanting you to know who you are with sharing their accounts so you get better or different training, because their opponent doesn't know who he plays against so he mostly doesn't play to counteract your specific style of play. My point here: It is okay to have additional accounts you share with other players, as long as you don't use them in (official) tournaments. Which Vindicta (Retribution) did. | ||
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SlammerSC2
77 Posts
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him. agree | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On March 30 2017 17:35 Corvuuss wrote: So I've seen this "They let more known pros share their accounts, but not ban them" saying they should ban those pros too. The difference here is: They don't use those accounts in official blizzard tournaments When you use an account that is played on by multiple people in an official online-tournament (offline it is completely fine to use a shared account in theory as you can see the person playing) you don't know who is playing, or you could try to trick someone into believing you're playing but someone else is to give you a boost. On ladder it is the exact same effect of people not wanting you to know who you are with sharing their accounts so you get better or different training, because their opponent doesn't know who he plays against so he mostly doesn't play to counteract your specific style of play. My point here: It is okay to have additional accounts you share with other players, as long as you don't use them in (official) tournaments. Which Vindicta (Retribution) did. Your opinion is valid as you are entitled to it, however what you are saying does not match the TUA clearly defined by blizzard. They are picking and choosing when they want to enforce their policies even thought they are clearly defined and written. They turn a blind eye to scarlett/neeb/koreans and whoever else share accounts even though its publicly broadcasted on twitch. It's an oldboys club. The scene was ran the same way by certain figureheads of the community prior to wcs even being a thing. If they don't like you, they use every excuse to keep you out of the circle to make sure you don't make it. The sad part is, the scene would have actually grown substantially large had it been ran without this sort of bias. Truth is, the powers that be do not like avilo. They wanted an excuse to action him, he gave it to them, however, they couldn't do it without actioning the guy using a shared account. When has blizzard ever given a shit about shared accounts/hackers? ALMOST NEVER. FFS they banned the "hacker/account sharer" from the event BUT PROCEED TO LET HIM ROAM FREE ON BNET TO CONTINUE HACKING!?!? They truly don't care. We all know that. Yet they choose this instance to action someone? It's a load of crap. They rarely enforce actual policy unless they want to accomplish something else with it. If this was untrue, we'd see less hackers/shared accounts because they would be banning people out left and right. It seems like a clever way for blizzard to mask their intentions by using a shared account holder as a scapegoat and when you put the pieces together, watch other pros publicly broadcast account sharing with blizzard never taking any action at all and see it clearly for what it is, it just makes blizzard look bad and confirms that it is indeed an oldboys club. They've done this for years and but they fail to realize this type of leadership actually stifles the growth of their community/playerbase. Wake up people, this was a poorly executed rule enforcement with a hidden agenda to keep avilo out. If they truly cared about integrity of their competitive circuit, community and game in general, this would have been handled entirely differently. | ||
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Azhrak
Finland1198 Posts
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him. A player breaking the rules does not give a free pass for others to break the rules. | ||
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Thax
Belgium1060 Posts
No, not agreed. Just because someone breaks the rules it doesn't mean you get to break the rules too. | ||
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Ve5pa
United Kingdom252 Posts
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Azhrak
Finland1198 Posts
On March 30 2017 18:02 Ve5pa wrote: Out of interest what is happening to the people who were calling Avilo a 'fucking autistic kid' etc in WCS chat? Is Blizzard still happy condone their actions? Definitely a mistake by moderators to allow such speech in the chat. | ||
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Editor_In_Chimp
Australia36 Posts
On March 30 2017 17:35 Corvuuss wrote: So I've seen this "They let more known pros share their accounts, but not ban them" saying they should ban those pros too. The difference here is: They don't use those accounts in official blizzard tournaments When you use an account that is played on by multiple people in an official online-tournament (offline it is completely fine to use a shared account in theory as you can see the person playing) you don't know who is playing, or you could try to trick someone into believing you're playing but someone else is to give you a boost. On ladder it is the exact same effect of people not wanting you to know who you are with sharing their accounts so you get better or different training, because their opponent doesn't know who he plays against so he mostly doesn't play to counteract your specific style of play. My point here: It is okay to have additional accounts you share with other players, as long as you don't use them in (official) tournaments. Which Vindicta (Retribution) did. Difference is, he shared it with confirmed cheaters. | ||
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AbouSV
Germany1278 Posts
He is a professional streamer. He is paid for people to know him. Now even more people talk about him, that's his job, don't blame him for it. Ignoring him is the best action if you don't like him. (And I failed to not answering to this post  ) | ||
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Musicus
Germany23579 Posts
On March 30 2017 14:22 avilo wrote: So i get punished for exposing the hacker and not thanked or given a second chance to qualify from the one i got robbed? Blizzard logic at it's finest backwards. I hope the community does not put up for this bullshit, no matter if someone personally doesn't like me or not, i've never cheated in this game, and i just literally saved 3-4 other people that had their matches ruined by this hacker as well. I deserve another chance to qualify as well. I had a right to be upset that they made me play vs him even before the match i presented evidence showing who he was, and they refused to DQ him. On top of that, WCS official casters live on stream gave me shit, as usual with their condescending tones (except tod) and even went so far as to lie and say hacks don't exist on SC2. This is all around bullshit but i don't really expect much these days. I'm really hoping the SC2 community will stand up for me here, and the other players that are going to get another chance to qualify if they have any honor at all will stand up for me too for my chance to play that was robbed from me. Considering me even bringing all of this issue up in the first place is what is going to allow them to get re-games. This is as usual another biased attempt against me from Blizzard. Just like when they permabanned me from the bnet forums for giving CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK about 3 rax reapers. This is ridiculous. Stop being an asshole and people would stand up for you, but the way you behave and insult everyone who doesn't agree with you will make sure nobody takes your side. Start to respect Blizzard, casters and tournament organisers and act like an adult. You brought up how this situation would've been handled differently if it was Snute or a Korean pro. Do you think Snute or ByuN would've expressed their concerns in the same manner as you did? Just think about your own actions for once. I think you got off lightly. | ||
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Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
On March 30 2017 17:58 ReachTheSky wrote: Your opinion is valid as you are entitled to it, however what you are saying does not match the TUA clearly defined by blizzard. They are picking and choosing when they want to enforce their policies even thought they are clearly defined and written. They turn a blind eye to scarlett/neeb/koreans and whoever else share accounts even though its publicly broadcasted on twitch. It's an oldboys club. The scene was ran the same way by certain figureheads of the community prior to wcs even being a thing. If they don't like you, they use every excuse to keep you out of the circle to make sure you don't make it. The sad part is, the scene would have actually grown substantially large had it been ran without this sort of bias. Truth is, the powers that be do not like avilo. They wanted an excuse to action him, he gave it to them, however, they couldn't do it without actioning the guy using a shared account. When has blizzard ever given a shit about shared accounts/hackers? ALMOST NEVER. FFS they banned the "hacker/account sharer" from the event BUT PROCEED TO LET HIM ROAM FREE ON BNET TO CONTINUE HACKING!?!? They truly don't care. We all know that. Yet they choose this instance to action someone? It's a load of crap. They rarely enforce actual policy unless they want to accomplish something else with it. If this was untrue, we'd see less hackers/shared accounts because they would be banning people out left and right. It seems like a clever way for blizzard to mask their intentions by using a shared account holder as a scapegoat and when you put the pieces together, watch other pros publicly broadcast account sharing with blizzard never taking any action at all and see it clearly for what it is, it just makes blizzard look bad and confirms that it is indeed an oldboys club. They've done this for years and but they fail to realize this type of leadership actually stifles the growth of their community/playerbase. Wake up people, this was a poorly executed rule enforcement with a hidden agenda to keep avilo out. If they truly cared about integrity of their competitive circuit, community and game in general, this would have been handled entirely differently. The difference i see (and I think blizzard sees) is those pros you mentioned do no harm. While playing on a shared account in tournament very easily can be harmful. And I don't see why you should punish something that doesn't harm anyone | ||
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nachtkap
Germany197 Posts
On March 30 2017 17:58 ReachTheSky wrote: Your opinion is valid as you are entitled to it, however what you are saying does not match the TUA clearly defined by blizzard. They are picking and choosing when they want to enforce their policies even thought they are clearly defined and written. They turn a blind eye to scarlett/neeb/koreans and whoever else share accounts even though its publicly broadcasted on twitch. It's an oldboys club. The scene was ran the same way by certain figureheads of the community prior to wcs even being a thing. If they don't like you, they use every excuse to keep you out of the circle to make sure you don't make it. The sad part is, the scene would have actually grown substantially large had it been ran without this sort of bias. Truth is, the powers that be do not like avilo. [..] It seems like a clever way for blizzard to mask their intentions by using a shared account holder as a scapegoat and when you put the pieces together, watch other pros publicly broadcast account sharing with blizzard never taking any action at all and see it clearly for what it is, it just makes blizzard look bad and confirms that it is indeed an oldboys club. They've done this for years and but they fail to realize this type of leadership actually stifles the growth of their community/playerbase. Wake up people, this was a poorly executed rule enforcement with a hidden agenda to keep avilo out. If they truly cared about integrity of their competitive circuit, community and game in general, this would have been handled entirely differently. As always people discount the importance of INTENT. Blizzard as a corporation have a legal department that looks over TUA, EULA and such. I would hell of a lot surprised if legal had no contact with the "ban"-department. Back to intent... The easiest example I can relate through hear-say is when theft is theft. If I am in a club and take your hat from you, that isnt theft. I would depriving you of the value of your property. If I take your hat and leave the club, that would be theft. When I leave the club it is reasonable to assume that I DONT INTENT TO RETURN your property to you. The former would deprivation of value the latter would be theft. What was the INTENT of the streamers that share accounts? I'd say laziness is part of it, some else mentioned getting unbiased(?) gameplay from your opponent. So the counter question is would you want to see streamers punished because of laziness, part of which is trying to provide a smooth experience to their viewers. Now you might disagree with that. But would you want the city you life in to punish J walking to the letter of the law not the spirit of the law? | ||
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SlammerSC2
77 Posts
On March 30 2017 13:49 Nakajin wrote: Plus he accused of cheating (and insulted) another opponent tonight after losing to him, and also all his history of BM opponent in professional games. The thing is the guy actually played rather suspicius. Many small things like clicking on buildings that are under construction before getting vision of them. It wouldent be a surprise to me if Sottorks doesent win many games offline. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On March 30 2017 18:24 Corvuuss wrote: The difference i see (and I think blizzard sees) is those pros you mentioned do no harm. While playing on a shared account in tournament very easily can be harmful. And I don't see why you should punish something that doesn't harm anyone They share accounts which is strictly forbidden under blizzard's TUA. It's clearly written. It's not a situational rule. It's just that you can't share accounts. Blizzard isn't enforcing their policy when it comes to the "inner circle" are they? nope. They operate on a bias agenda outside of the TUA. Whoever is responsible for enforcing their policies needs a lesson in leadership. What they do affects the integrity and perception of their company/game. Enough of the oldboys club already. Ya'll have been doing it for 6-7 years already, can you clearly see it doesn't work? You've alienated your playerbase/community by operating this way. Letting hackers roam wide, enforcing policy only when it suits your agenda compromising your integrity as a professional esport. lol. cannot believe they banned the hacker/account sharer from the event and then proceed to let him run wild on battle.net. If that's not a slap in the face to your community then the world is shit. This rules enforcement was a clear bias decision made behind closed doors to keep avilo out. for example, Idra raged every god damn game. Nothing. Not even a slap on the wrist form blizzard. He was literally the most toxic pro there was in sc2, but he was in the inner circle so blizzard let him roam wild(the only reason he is gone is because he got fired by his sponsors). the community needs to wake up and realize that people in this scene are not treated and disciplined equally. God forbid you are outspoken or not liked, you'll get shunned by the innercircle or the organizers will make whatever call to keep you from being successful. It's pathetic when politics gets in the way of legitimate competition and the success of sc2. It's the prime reason sc2 has fallen from grace aside from blizzard's neglect to be proactive in balancing the game. This what you get when you let adults in their late twenties/early thirties wield power who do not know how to use it responsibly and ETHICALLY. It does more harm than good. I'll close my statement out with this...Does blizzard really think people want to play their game on their own free will, look up to role models/pros if this is being ran as an oldboys like? Do they REALLLLLLLY think bias agendas and bias decision making makes for a successful legitimate community/league/esport when they are too busy playing politics. I've watched people get in the way of Avilo for 6-7 years and it's pathetic. So what, he called some commentators a bunch of cucks, who gives a damn. To the decision makers behind this, you ought to reserve this decision and reflect on your leadershipskills. Your bias decision making(we all know its because you just don't like avilo as you don't enforce policy in all instances(neeb/scarlett/koreans sharing accounts-against TUA, mass hackers-nothing done about it) , only when it conveniently suits your agenda) does not inspire people to want to play your game in hopes of being the next pro on wcs. It makes me not want to watch competitive sc2. It makes me not want to tell people about WCS. Everyone needs to be treated equally or you will never grow bigger as an esport/league than you are now. Do you want to shrink? Because that is what will happen if you continue operating the way you do. Stop abusing your power as decision makers.Wake up. Reverse the Avilo Ban ASAP. I can't stand Avilo but you know what, He has one thing not a single player your leagues have to offer. Spirit and passion. Avilo has the passion, he has the fighting spirit. You need to showcase this and use this to your advantage and broadcast him as the underdog rising the ranks. Stop cock blocking him. The majority of your other pro gamers in your little inner circle have zero spirit, zero personality. I tune into a broadcast and I see a bunch of young adults trained to behave and act a certain way. I see zero personality. How is this relatable or fun to watch? It's boring and its the reason i only tune into a wcs/gsl broadcast once in a blue moon and not every broadcast even though I have the free time to do so. Avilo is literally the most interesting in SC2 right now and i hate him but you know what, he deserves a god damn shot. Reserve the Ban. Let him play his matches like everyone else is. Do the right thing. | ||
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playa
United States1284 Posts
In HotS... playing vs hackers in WCS was common place. And, unless you were popular, like a Demuslim type, no one would even care to look into it. Pointless to even bring it up. | ||
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