During WCS Challenger North America Cup #1, Blizzard Esports received multiple reports of a Terran player, Vindicta (a.k.a. Retribution, Nero), using hacks both in WCS matches and outside of the WCS. Here are the results of our investigation:
Hacking Accusations - Vindicta
First, we conclude that Vindicta did not use hacks during his most recent WCS Challenger matches.
Second, in the many public ladder matches reviewed by us, Vindicta was either not using hacks, or the reported account was not piloted by Vindicta at that time.
In the course of our investigation, we discovered that Vindicta was one of several players logging into accounts that had been actioned for hacking in the past, and also had known hackers logging onto accounts under his name. In light of this, Vindicta has received a ban from play through WCS Austin and WCS Jönköping Challengers and main event, and his position in the WCS Challenger North America Playoffs has been revoked.
Matches will be held among some players he eliminated in NA Cup #1 to determine his replacement.
Account Sharing
We discussed accounts sharing partially in our 2016 Ladder Challenger win-trading ruling, but we would like to reiterate our stance on account sharing. Allowing another player to log onto your account, or logging onto another player’s account is a violation of the Blizzard End User License Agreement. In cases where reports have been made against a shared account, all parties accessing the account may be held responsible by Blizzard Esports when disciplinary actions are taken. Sharing an account will expose your standing in the WCS to disciplinary action.
Player Behavior - Avilo
Blizzard and our tournament administrators strive to provide the best possible tournament experience for our players. We take all reports seriously, especially reports of hacking by player in the WCS. Each report receives a thorough investigation.
We also take player behavior very seriously. In the 2017 WCS Rules section 6.1 we outline our expectations that player will behave in a sportsmanlike manner outside of the game and treat all involved with respect.
Avilo’s behavior during and after his match with Vindicta grossly violated our player conduct guidelines, and cannot be tolerated. Due to the continued breaches of conduct, he will be disqualified from any WCS Austin - Challenger NA competition. However, he will remain eligible for the open bracket at WCS Austin and all other WCS competitions.
On March 30 2017 13:44 AshC wrote: Nice ruling regarding the hacker issue but the Avilo ruling is rather lenient. I would ban him from WCS Austin altogether at least but this one is OK.
Well to be honest he would probably not make it out of the open bracket anyway those are usually super competitive.
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
He wasn't using hack in the games according to blizzard, and I am guessing in their eyes you should only adress it to the admin and not insult the other guy in the stream.
Plus he accused of cheating (and insulted) another opponent tonight after losing to him, and also all his history of BM opponent in professional games.
Regardless, he did overdue his behavior. Avilo lost his chances at Austin, unless he goes there and plays offline. As for Vindicta, he needs to be IP banned.
Agree with this ruling 100%. Today Avilo accused Sorttorks (the Canadian Terran player who beat him and went onto qualify) of hacking. Again his behaviour violated the player conduct guidelines, especially in the language used. I really appreciate Blizzard's attention to following up on and enforcing their guidelines. This shows the integrity of Blizzard and their dedication to ensuring SC2 scene maintains the utmost sportsmanship and accountability.
The avilo DQ is unwarranted. I guarantee that if it was a well liked famous player that brings in major viewer numbers, blizzard wouldn't have DQed the player. They would have swept it under the rug. Glad to see blizzard take action against hackers though even though he actually wasn't caught hacking in the event. Funny how blizzard lets all the pros share barcode accounts, yet the pros play on each other's accounts all the time, even on livestream, see scarlet's past broadcasts. This was clearly a bias decision or perhaps an excuse just to boot avilo from qualifying and it is completely unjust.
On March 30 2017 14:04 ReachTheSky wrote: The avilo DQ is unwarranted. I guarantee that if it was a well liked famous player that brings in major viewer numbers, blizzard wouldn't have DQed the player. They would have swept it under the rug. Glad to see blizzard take action against hackers though even though he actually wasn't caught hacking in the event. Funny how blizzard lets all the pros share barcode accounts, yet the pros play on each other's accounts all the time, even on livestream, see scarlet's past broadcasts. This was clearly a bias decision or perhaps an excuse just to boot avilo from qualifying and it is completely unjust.
I hope you are trolling, I really hope you are, anyone who heard Avilo's rant knows that it was unacceptable behaviour when matched to the guidelines. I believe Blizz are taking this opportunity to reinforce their stance on such matters.
On March 30 2017 14:04 ReachTheSky wrote: The avilo DQ is unwarranted. I guarantee that if it was a well liked famous player that brings in major viewer numbers, blizzard wouldn't have DQed the player. They would have swept it under the rug. Glad to see blizzard take action against hackers though even though he actually wasn't caught hacking in the event. Funny how blizzard lets all the pros share barcode accounts, yet the pros play on each other's accounts all the time, even on livestream, see scarlet's past broadcasts. This was clearly a bias decision or perhaps an excuse just to boot avilo from qualifying and it is completely unjust.
The account sharing clause is just there so that players can't try to argue that while the account is theirs, they weren't the ones hacking/win-trading on that account at that time. If no one does anything against the rules using a shared account, Blizzard won't care.
says a lot about company policy when nero gets away without a permaban.
Feel like permaban from WCS challenger is bit harsh even with avilo's uncalled for frustration and lash out against commentators, but Nero getting away relatively scot free after this? Astonishing really.
Read it over again and it was account ban from wcs event because of account sharing. Fair enough then. I rather hoped for Nero himself being banned from wcs events. Silly to see someone like that competing in WCS
On March 30 2017 14:04 ReachTheSky wrote: The avilo DQ is unwarranted. I guarantee that if it was a well liked famous player that brings in major viewer numbers, blizzard wouldn't have DQed the player. They would have swept it under the rug. Glad to see blizzard take action against hackers though even though he actually wasn't caught hacking in the event. Funny how blizzard lets all the pros share barcode accounts, yet the pros play on each other's accounts all the time, even on livestream, see scarlet's past broadcasts. This was clearly a bias decision or perhaps an excuse just to boot avilo from qualifying and it is completely unjust.
I hope you are trolling, I really hope you are, anyone who heard Avilo's rant knows that it was unacceptable behaviour when matched to the guidelines. I believe Blizz are taking this opportunity to reinforce their stance on such matters.
Blizzard looks the other way when other well known, well liked pros that bring in lots of viewers share accounts. It's a fact. Scarlett sharing accounts with others while streaming goes swept under the rug. That is just one example. The koreans do it all the time as we already know. I can't speak for the europeans on that matter.
On March 30 2017 14:12 jinjin5000 wrote: says a lot about company policy when nero gets away scott free.
Feel like permaban from WCS challenger is bit harsh even with avilo's uncalled for frustration and lash out against commentators, but Nero getting away after this? Astonishing really.
Ummm what?
In light of this, Vindicta has received a ban from play through WCS Austin and WCS Jönköping Challengers and main event, and his position in the WCS Challenger North America Playoffs has been revoked.
On March 30 2017 14:12 jinjin5000 wrote: says a lot about company policy when nero gets away scott free.
Feel like permaban from WCS challenger is bit harsh even with avilo's uncalled for frustration and lash out against commentators, but Nero getting away after this? Astonishing really.
Scott free? He's banned for the next 2 WCS events. That doesn't seem scott-free to me.
On March 30 2017 14:04 ReachTheSky wrote: The avilo DQ is unwarranted. I guarantee that if it was a well liked famous player that brings in major viewer numbers, blizzard wouldn't have DQed the player. They would have swept it under the rug. Glad to see blizzard take action against hackers though even though he actually wasn't caught hacking in the event. Funny how blizzard lets all the pros share barcode accounts, yet the pros play on each other's accounts all the time, even on livestream, see scarlet's past broadcasts. This was clearly a bias decision or perhaps an excuse just to boot avilo from qualifying and it is completely unjust.
Humm blizz has ban big players like MarineLord when he was the best T in the foreing scene, they also banned other player like ( I think) Lillikenin, or what ever was his name, for BM before. Maybe other people should have been ban before but it's not a reason to let someone call other people who are trying to make a name in sc2 hackers in front of everybody.
So i get punished for exposing the hacker and not thanked or given a second chance to qualify from the one i got robbed?
Blizzard logic at it's finest backwards. I hope the community does not put up for this bullshit, no matter if someone personally doesn't like me or not, i've never cheated in this game, and i just literally saved 3-4 other people that had their matches ruined by this hacker as well.
I deserve another chance to qualify as well. I had a right to be upset that they made me play vs him even before the match i presented evidence showing who he was, and they refused to DQ him. On top of that, WCS official casters live on stream gave me shit, as usual with their condescending tones (except tod) and even went so far as to lie and say hacks don't exist on SC2.
This is all around bullshit but i don't really expect much these days. I'm really hoping the SC2 community will stand up for me here, and the other players that are going to get another chance to qualify if they have any honor at all will stand up for me too for my chance to play that was robbed from me. Considering me even bringing all of this issue up in the first place is what is going to allow them to get re-games.
This is as usual another biased attempt against me from Blizzard. Just like when they permabanned me from the bnet forums for giving CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK about 3 rax reapers.
On March 30 2017 14:01 AxiomBlurr wrote: Agree with this ruling 100%. Today Avilo accused Sorttorks (the Canadian Terran player who beat him and went onto qualify) of hacking. Again his behaviour violated the player conduct guidelines, especially in the language used. I really appreciate Blizzard's attention to following up on and enforcing their guidelines. This shows the integrity of Blizzard and their dedication to ensuring SC2 scene maintains the utmost sportsmanship and accountability.
7:35 tank unsieges instant scan 9:17 two vikings click on a depot he can't see 9:41 scan + counter scan as tank sieges up 9:55 selects units as tanks unsiege 9:59 instant scan when tanks go into siege mode again 10:12 tanks unsiege he insta selects army again 10:24 scans as tanks move forward
Happens many other times across g1/g2. He is getting mini-map pings when tanks siege/unsiege via mh.
Yes you had a right to be upset. That doesn't mean that you can do whatever you want though. In the real world "being upset" is no free card to behave like a child which doesn't get what it wants. If you would just have been reasonable, told the admin in a productive way what is going on and moved on after he told you they will investigate this, you know what would have happened? You would have gotten your second chance to qualify. Now you didn't because you acted the way you did.
Also because you are still confused, he actually didn't hack yesterday as far as blizzard is concerned and the guy today was no hacker either most likely. No this isn't a big conspiracy against you, there simply aren't as many hackers out there as you would want us to believe.
On March 30 2017 14:22 avilo wrote: So i get punished for exposing the hacker and not thanked or given a second chance to qualify from the one i got robbed?
Blizzard logic at it's finest backwards. I hope the community does not put up for this bullshit, no matter if someone personally doesn't like me or not, i've never cheated in this game, and i just literally saved 3-4 other people that had their matches ruined by this hacker as well.
I deserve another chance to qualify as well. I had a right to be upset that they made me play vs him even before the match i presented evidence showing who he was, and they refused to DQ him. On top of that, WCS official casters live on stream gave me shit, as usual with their condescending tones (except tod) and even went so far as to lie and say hacks don't exist on SC2.
This is all around bullshit but i don't really expect much these days. I'm really hoping the SC2 community will stand up for me here, and the other players that are going to get another chance to qualify if they have any honor at all will stand up for me too for my chance to play that was robbed from me. Considering me even bringing all of this issue up in the first place is what is going to allow them to get re-games.
This is as usual another biased attempt against me from Blizzard. Just like when they permabanned me from the bnet forums for giving CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK about 3 rax reapers.
This is ridiculous.
6.1. Behavior. (a) Players must at all times observe the highest standards of personal integrity and good sportsmanship. Players are required to behave in a professional and sportsmanlike manner in their interactions with other competitors, WCS organizers and members of the administration team, the media, sponsors and fans.
(b) Players may not use obscene gestures or profanity in their BattleTags, player handles, game chat, lobby chat or live interviews. This rule applies to English and all other languages in use in the WCS and includes abbreviations and/or obscure references.
(c) Players are expected to settle their differences in a respectful manner and without resort to violence, threats, or physical or non-physical intimidation. Violence is never permitted at any facility that is owned by or leased to Blizzard or a tournament organizer, or against any competitor or administrator
A. Your actions today (Well every day, but for the sake of argument we'll say today) show you have no integrity or good sportsmanship.
B. You called admins and casters "Beta cucks" (amongst other more offensive things) on stream and in your postings.
C. Your continued whining shows you have zero respect and are wanting to continue to use your community to take part in "non-violent intimidation"
Three strikes, You're out.
6.3. Illegal and Unethical Conduct
(b) A player may not, during any WCS Event, commit any act or become involved in any situation or occurrence which brings him or her into public disrepute, scandal or ridicule, or shocks or offends the community, or derogates from his or her public image or reflects unfavorably upon Blizzard, StarCraft II or any of the other products, services or sponsors of Blizzard.
Wanna guess which one of public disrupte, scandal or ridicule your actions bring you under avilo?
Who shares an account with hackers? It's mind boggling to me... Especially for a player that's trying to make it in the "wcs". Either this nero is dumb as a rock or blizzard is lying...
On March 30 2017 14:01 AxiomBlurr wrote: Agree with this ruling 100%. Today Avilo accused Sorttorks (the Canadian Terran player who beat him and went onto qualify) of hacking. Again his behaviour violated the player conduct guidelines, especially in the language used. I really appreciate Blizzard's attention to following up on and enforcing their guidelines. This shows the integrity of Blizzard and their dedication to ensuring SC2 scene maintains the utmost sportsmanship and accountability.
7:35 tank unsieges instant scan 9:17 two vikings click on a depot he can't see 9:41 scan + counter scan as tank sieges up 9:55 selects units as tanks unsiege 9:59 instant scan when tanks go into siege mode again 10:12 tanks unsiege he insta selects army again 10:24 scans as tanks move forward
Happens many other times across g1/g2. He is getting mini-map pings when tanks siege/unsiege via mh.
The 100% evidence: 4:22 Clicks directly onto reapers in fog of war with his units with his screen looking at them.
In the first replay: Newkirk.
7:35 tank unsieges instant scan unsubstantial, could be luck or game sense.
9:17 two vikings click on a depot he can't see The vikings were clicked to the location of the depot, the depot was not revealed in fog of war, he had reason to move his vikings here (to give tanks vision). Your point is that he clicked ON the depot, but he did not, you can tell by how the move command dot on the ground is not centred on the middle of the depot.
9:41 scan + counter scan as tank sieges up 9:55 selects units as tanks unsiege 9:59 instant scan when tanks go into siege mode again 10:12 tanks unsiege he insta selects army again 10:24 scans as tanks move forward The entirety of this is also inconclusive.
In the second replay: Abyssal. 4:22 Clicks directly onto reapers in fog of war with his units with his screen looking at them. He does NOT have your reapers selected. He has HIS 3 reapers selected. He does have his camera moved towards your reapers, however I do not believe this is supsicous as he was planning to move his 3 reapers into your base along that trajectory. Your other claims for this game are not substantial or conclusive at all.
he does click directly on the avilo reaper.... and why would he move this units to that location, he clicks there first to try and cut them off, instead of going onto cliff
Amazes me how hackers have no shame. Coming from someone who lost to a hacker in the final in an online tournament back in 2000 when $2000 was a good chunk of $$. People still blatantly hack in games like csgo, it's their way of fun I guess. But in a perfect world, these guys should be not only account banned permanently but be put in jail for a few days or at least reported to their ISP similar to pirating movies/games. (Am I crazy or taking online gaming too seriously? Maybe, but hackers are almost the same as stealing peoples credit card info and using them and never gettin caught)
On March 30 2017 14:45 lastprobeALIVE wrote: he does click directly on the avilo reaper.... and why would he move this units to that location, he clicks there first to try and cut them off, instead of going onto cliff
Yep 4:22 evidence is 100% that it is MH because he is clicking directly on the reapers, he even tries to cut them off, but then realizes they're going to get up the cliff.
On March 30 2017 14:45 lastprobeALIVE wrote: he does click directly on the avilo reaper.... and why would he move this units to that location, he clicks there first to try and cut them off, instead of going onto cliff
The reason he doesnt go up the cliff, is because he see's avilos reapers go up the cliff. If he b-lines to the nat he can engage the cyclones without the reapers and take a convincing fight. Here is a clip to show when he sees the reapers go up the cliff.
I watched the replay from sottorks view with this selected in the command card. At no point was a single reaper selected from 4:00 to until the main fight begins with all reapers in view of both players. Only 3reapers selected at a time, and they were his reapers, he goes on to HOTKEY them after he has them selected, then uses that hotkey during the fight. They are clearly his reapers.
EDIT:
On March 30 2017 14:49 avilo wrote:
But according to blizzard mh doesn't exist.
They just banned someone for maphacking from the qualifier buddy
On March 30 2017 14:45 lastprobeALIVE wrote: he does click directly on the avilo reaper.... and why would he move this units to that location, he clicks there first to try and cut them off, instead of going onto cliff
Yep 4:22 evidence is 100% that it is MH because he is clicking directly on the reapers, he even tries to cut them off, but then realizes they're going to get up the cliff.
But according to blizzard mh doesn't exist.
You literally call out every other opponent on ladder for hacking. What you call evidence is none. The low standard you have for evidence is ludicrous. I bet you would find proof that you yourself are hacking in a lot of replays. Which you obviously don't do.
You could have exposed the hacker without being vile and toxic. There was probably 20 different ways to solve this issue without getting nasty. No one likes hackers, especially repeat ones in an official competition. Of all times this should have been the time the entire community rally for you, you had a moral high ground, but your persona and attitude turns a lot of people off, even if you are in the right.
On March 30 2017 14:45 lastprobeALIVE wrote: he does click directly on the avilo reaper.... and why would he move this units to that location, he clicks there first to try and cut them off, instead of going onto cliff
Yep 4:22 evidence is 100% that it is MH because he is clicking directly on the reapers, he even tries to cut them off, but then realizes they're going to get up the cliff.
But according to blizzard mh doesn't exist.
You literally call out every other opponent on ladder for hacking. What you call evidence is none. The low standard you have for evidence is ludicrous. I bet you would find proof that you yourself are hacking in a lot of replays. Which you obviously don't do.
Someone needs to read Avilo the story of the boy who cried wolf.
Had avilo been a decent person he would have been allowed to replay his matches against ruff and so on. Better be toxic, that always pays on the long run ... or not.
On March 30 2017 14:45 lastprobeALIVE wrote: he does click directly on the avilo reaper.... and why would he move this units to that location, he clicks there first to try and cut them off, instead of going onto cliff
The reason he doesnt go up the cliff, is because he see's avilos reapers go up the cliff. If he b-lines to the nat he can engage the cyclones without the reapers and take a convincing fight. Here is a clip to show when he sees the reapers go up the cliff. https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainySleepyCrocodileTakeNRG
I watched the replay from sottorks view with this selected in the command card. At no point was a single reaper selected from 4:00 to until the main fight begins with all reapers in view of both players. Only 3reapers selected at a time, and they were his reapers, he goes on to HOTKEY them after he has them selected, then uses that hotkey during the fight. They are clearly his reapers.
On March 30 2017 14:45 lastprobeALIVE wrote: he does click directly on the avilo reaper.... and why would he move this units to that location, he clicks there first to try and cut them off, instead of going onto cliff
The reason he doesnt go up the cliff, is because he see's avilos reapers go up the cliff. If he b-lines to the nat he can engage the cyclones without the reapers and take a convincing fight. Here is a clip to show when he sees the reapers go up the cliff. https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainySleepyCrocodileTakeNRG
I watched the replay from sottorks view with this selected in the command card. At no point was a single reaper selected from 4:00 to until the main fight begins with all reapers in view of both players. Only 3reapers selected at a time, and they were his reapers, he goes on to HOTKEY them after he has them selected, then uses that hotkey during the fight. They are clearly his reapers.
EDIT:
On March 30 2017 14:49 avilo wrote:
But according to blizzard mh doesn't exist.
They just banned someone for maphacking from the qualifier buddy
No, they removed him for "account sharing", not hacking. "buddy".
Their wording is vague.
"In the course of our investigation, we discovered that Vindicta was one of several players logging into accounts that had been actioned for hacking in the past, and also had known hackers logging onto accounts under his name."
Fair point, it doesn't necessarily say he was hacking.
On March 30 2017 14:45 lastprobeALIVE wrote: he does click directly on the avilo reaper.... and why would he move this units to that location, he clicks there first to try and cut them off, instead of going onto cliff
The reason he doesnt go up the cliff, is because he see's avilos reapers go up the cliff. If he b-lines to the nat he can engage the cyclones without the reapers and take a convincing fight. Here is a clip to show when he sees the reapers go up the cliff. https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainySleepyCrocodileTakeNRG
I watched the replay from sottorks view with this selected in the command card. At no point was a single reaper selected from 4:00 to until the main fight begins with all reapers in view of both players. Only 3reapers selected at a time, and they were his reapers, he goes on to HOTKEY them after he has them selected, then uses that hotkey during the fight. They are clearly his reapers.
EDIT:
On March 30 2017 14:49 avilo wrote:
But according to blizzard mh doesn't exist.
They just banned someone for maphacking from the qualifier buddy
No, they removed him for "account sharing", not hacking. "buddy".
They let other pros account share all the time, even when streaming. Blizzard is bias here. They only enforce rules vs people they don't like, they banned "hacker/account sharer" as an excuse/scapegoat to dq avilo. They don't like avilo. It's an oldboys club and everyone knows it, it always has been. If the powers that be don't like you, they will use whatever excuse they can to keep you out of the group. They like scarlett/neeb so they didn't ban them for sharing accounts the handful of times they did it on livestream. Why? Because it's an oldboys club. It's a shame because this type of conditional reinforcement of rules is what stifles growth in the longterm and is a major turn off. Edit: Even korean pros share accounts, blizzard doesn't do a damn thing about it. It's all malarky. Edit: Blizzard bans the "hacker/account sharer" only from the events, but allows the hacker to roam free on b.net. lol
On March 30 2017 14:45 lastprobeALIVE wrote: he does click directly on the avilo reaper.... and why would he move this units to that location, he clicks there first to try and cut them off, instead of going onto cliff
The reason he doesnt go up the cliff, is because he see's avilos reapers go up the cliff. If he b-lines to the nat he can engage the cyclones without the reapers and take a convincing fight. Here is a clip to show when he sees the reapers go up the cliff. https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainySleepyCrocodileTakeNRG
I watched the replay from sottorks view with this selected in the command card. At no point was a single reaper selected from 4:00 to until the main fight begins with all reapers in view of both players. Only 3reapers selected at a time, and they were his reapers, he goes on to HOTKEY them after he has them selected, then uses that hotkey during the fight. They are clearly his reapers.
EDIT:
On March 30 2017 14:49 avilo wrote:
But according to blizzard mh doesn't exist.
They just banned someone for maphacking from the qualifier buddy
No, they removed him for "account sharing", not hacking. "buddy".
They let other pros account share all the time, even when streaming. Blizzard is bias here. They only enforce rules vs people they don't like, they banned "hacker/account sharer" as an excuse/scapegoat to dq avilo. They don't like avilo. It's an oldboys club and everyone knows it, it always has been. If the powers that be don't like you, they will use whatever excuse they can to keep you out of the group. They like scarlett/neeb so they didn't ban them for sharing accounts the handful of times they did it on livestream. Why? Because it's an oldboys club. It's a shame because this type of conditional reinforcement of rules is what stifles growth in the longterm and is a major turn off. Edit: Even korean pros share accounts, blizzard doesn't do a damn thing about it. It's all malarky.
I am not disagreeing, but as of right now, that is their excuse. They couldn't prove hacking on nero except different IP's being on the account which equals to account sharing. Sorry, I want to agree with you 100%, but at the moment, this is "their" excuse.
On March 30 2017 14:45 lastprobeALIVE wrote: he does click directly on the avilo reaper.... and why would he move this units to that location, he clicks there first to try and cut them off, instead of going onto cliff
The reason he doesnt go up the cliff, is because he see's avilos reapers go up the cliff. If he b-lines to the nat he can engage the cyclones without the reapers and take a convincing fight. Here is a clip to show when he sees the reapers go up the cliff. https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainySleepyCrocodileTakeNRG
I watched the replay from sottorks view with this selected in the command card. At no point was a single reaper selected from 4:00 to until the main fight begins with all reapers in view of both players. Only 3reapers selected at a time, and they were his reapers, he goes on to HOTKEY them after he has them selected, then uses that hotkey during the fight. They are clearly his reapers.
EDIT:
On March 30 2017 14:49 avilo wrote:
But according to blizzard mh doesn't exist.
They just banned someone for maphacking from the qualifier buddy
No, they removed him for "account sharing", not hacking. "buddy".
They let other pros account share all the time, even when streaming. Blizzard is bias here. They only enforce rules vs people they don't like, they banned "hacker/account sharer" as an excuse/scapegoat to dq avilo. They don't like avilo. It's an oldboys club and everyone knows it, it always has been. If the powers that be don't like you, they will use whatever excuse they can to keep you out of the group. They like scarlett/neeb so they didn't ban them for sharing accounts the handful of times they did it on livestream. Why? Because it's an oldboys club. It's a shame because this type of conditional reinforcement of rules is what stifles growth in the longterm and is a major turn off. Edit: Even korean pros share accounts, blizzard doesn't do a damn thing about it. It's all malarky.
I am not disagreeing, but as of right now, that is their excuse. They couldn't prove hacking on nero except different IP's being on the account which equals to account sharing. Sorry, I want to agree with you 100%, but at the moment, this is "their" excuse.
Keep in mind, he is not only banned for sharing accounts, rather sharing accounts with known hackers.
On March 30 2017 14:22 avilo wrote: So i get punished for exposing the hacker and not thanked or given a second chance to qualify from the one i got robbed?
Blizzard logic at it's finest backwards. I hope the community does not put up for this bullshit, no matter if someone personally doesn't like me or not, i've never cheated in this game, and i just literally saved 3-4 other people that had their matches ruined by this hacker as well.
I deserve another chance to qualify as well. I had a right to be upset that they made me play vs him even before the match i presented evidence showing who he was, and they refused to DQ him. On top of that, WCS official casters live on stream gave me shit, as usual with their condescending tones (except tod) and even went so far as to lie and say hacks don't exist on SC2.
This is all around bullshit but i don't really expect much these days. I'm really hoping the SC2 community will stand up for me here, and the other players that are going to get another chance to qualify if they have any honor at all will stand up for me too for my chance to play that was robbed from me. Considering me even bringing all of this issue up in the first place is what is going to allow them to get re-games.
This is as usual another biased attempt against me from Blizzard. Just like when they permabanned me from the bnet forums for giving CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK about 3 rax reapers.
This is ridiculous.
Why don't you include that the administrator warned more than enough times about your stubborness and that THEY WERE in a process and you keep harrassing him vía whisper saying that you knew there was no process. Why don't you told them that oh suprise, you lost again and already accused another player of maphacking?
And now Avilo imagine that u pointed out to Blizzard problems with that player without saying all that biased shit toward casters and admins on their channel.
You could easily repeat all your matches just as other competing players. The only difference between you and them is that they haven't been toxic. I would say that Blizzard is giving you valuable lesson. Learn something instead bitching about it. BEHAVE next time.
LOL. I often laugh off whatever things that Avilo does these days but now I wonder if this guy is a serious troll or very good at acting or he is in some kind of denial.
Avilo, your horrible attitude and poor sportsmanship are well-known in this community. Frankly, they should make a documentary to show the dark side of eSports and you should be the main character. Don't come here and crying "I'm innocent" and asking for sympathy or support. Do you think us stupid or what? LOL. It amazes me sometimes how delusional a person can be.
On March 30 2017 17:11 AshC wrote: LOL. I often laugh off whatever things that Avilo does these days but now I wonder if this guy is a serious troll or very good at acting or he is in some kind of denial.
Avilo, your horrible attitude and poor sportsmanship are well-known in this community. Frankly, they should make a documentary to show the dark side of eSports and you should be the main character. Don't come here and crying "I'm innocent" and asking for sympathy or support. Do you think us stupid or what? LOL. It amazes me sometimes how delusional a person can be.
Idra is the main character and always will be followed up by incontrol just because his stare is meaner than my own grandmother's ;P
On March 30 2017 14:45 lastprobeALIVE wrote: he does click directly on the avilo reaper.... and why would he move this units to that location, he clicks there first to try and cut them off, instead of going onto cliff
The reason he doesnt go up the cliff, is because he see's avilos reapers go up the cliff. If he b-lines to the nat he can engage the cyclones without the reapers and take a convincing fight. Here is a clip to show when he sees the reapers go up the cliff. https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainySleepyCrocodileTakeNRG
I watched the replay from sottorks view with this selected in the command card. At no point was a single reaper selected from 4:00 to until the main fight begins with all reapers in view of both players. Only 3reapers selected at a time, and they were his reapers, he goes on to HOTKEY them after he has them selected, then uses that hotkey during the fight. They are clearly his reapers.
EDIT:
On March 30 2017 14:49 avilo wrote:
But according to blizzard mh doesn't exist.
They just banned someone for maphacking from the qualifier buddy
No, they removed him for "account sharing", not hacking. "buddy".
They let other pros account share all the time, even when streaming. Blizzard is bias here. They only enforce rules vs people they don't like, they banned "hacker/account sharer" as an excuse/scapegoat to dq avilo. They don't like avilo. It's an oldboys club and everyone knows it, it always has been. If the powers that be don't like you, they will use whatever excuse they can to keep you out of the group. They like scarlett/neeb so they didn't ban them for sharing accounts the handful of times they did it on livestream. Why? Because it's an oldboys club. It's a shame because this type of conditional reinforcement of rules is what stifles growth in the longterm and is a major turn off. Edit: Even korean pros share accounts, blizzard doesn't do a damn thing about it. It's all malarky. Edit: Blizzard bans the "hacker/account sharer" only from the events, but allows the hacker to roam free on b.net. lol
Bs. MarineLord and MajOr shared an account and MajOr iirc was screwed when MLorD gave free wins to Dns, so they punish account sharing when something "illegal" is done on the account. In the case of the hacker it was hack, in the case of pros it was free wins during ladder qualifications.
So I've seen this "They let more known pros share their accounts, but not ban them" saying they should ban those pros too. The difference here is:
They don't use those accounts in official blizzard tournaments
When you use an account that is played on by multiple people in an official online-tournament (offline it is completely fine to use a shared account in theory as you can see the person playing) you don't know who is playing, or you could try to trick someone into believing you're playing but someone else is to give you a boost.
On ladder it is the exact same effect of people not wanting you to know who you are with sharing their accounts so you get better or different training, because their opponent doesn't know who he plays against so he mostly doesn't play to counteract your specific style of play.
My point here: It is okay to have additional accounts you share with other players, as long as you don't use them in (official) tournaments. Which Vindicta (Retribution) did.
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
On March 30 2017 17:35 Corvuuss wrote: So I've seen this "They let more known pros share their accounts, but not ban them" saying they should ban those pros too. The difference here is:
They don't use those accounts in official blizzard tournaments
When you use an account that is played on by multiple people in an official online-tournament (offline it is completely fine to use a shared account in theory as you can see the person playing) you don't know who is playing, or you could try to trick someone into believing you're playing but someone else is to give you a boost.
On ladder it is the exact same effect of people not wanting you to know who you are with sharing their accounts so you get better or different training, because their opponent doesn't know who he plays against so he mostly doesn't play to counteract your specific style of play.
My point here: It is okay to have additional accounts you share with other players, as long as you don't use them in (official) tournaments. Which Vindicta (Retribution) did.
Your opinion is valid as you are entitled to it, however what you are saying does not match the TUA clearly defined by blizzard. They are picking and choosing when they want to enforce their policies even thought they are clearly defined and written. They turn a blind eye to scarlett/neeb/koreans and whoever else share accounts even though its publicly broadcasted on twitch. It's an oldboys club. The scene was ran the same way by certain figureheads of the community prior to wcs even being a thing. If they don't like you, they use every excuse to keep you out of the circle to make sure you don't make it. The sad part is, the scene would have actually grown substantially large had it been ran without this sort of bias. Truth is, the powers that be do not like avilo. They wanted an excuse to action him, he gave it to them, however, they couldn't do it without actioning the guy using a shared account. When has blizzard ever given a shit about shared accounts/hackers? ALMOST NEVER. FFS they banned the "hacker/account sharer" from the event BUT PROCEED TO LET HIM ROAM FREE ON BNET TO CONTINUE HACKING!?!? They truly don't care. We all know that. Yet they choose this instance to action someone? It's a load of crap. They rarely enforce actual policy unless they want to accomplish something else with it. If this was untrue, we'd see less hackers/shared accounts because they would be banning people out left and right. It seems like a clever way for blizzard to mask their intentions by using a shared account holder as a scapegoat and when you put the pieces together, watch other pros publicly broadcast account sharing with blizzard never taking any action at all and see it clearly for what it is, it just makes blizzard look bad and confirms that it is indeed an oldboys club. They've done this for years and but they fail to realize this type of leadership actually stifles the growth of their community/playerbase. Wake up people, this was a poorly executed rule enforcement with a hidden agenda to keep avilo out. If they truly cared about integrity of their competitive circuit, community and game in general, this would have been handled entirely differently.
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
A player breaking the rules does not give a free pass for others to break the rules.
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
agree
No, not agreed. Just because someone breaks the rules it doesn't mean you get to break the rules too.
Out of interest what is happening to the people who were calling Avilo a 'fucking autistic kid' etc in WCS chat? Is Blizzard still happy condone their actions?
On March 30 2017 18:02 Ve5pa wrote: Out of interest what is happening to the people who were calling Avilo a 'fucking autistic kid' etc in WCS chat? Is Blizzard still happy condone their actions?
Definitely a mistake by moderators to allow such speech in the chat.
On March 30 2017 17:35 Corvuuss wrote: So I've seen this "They let more known pros share their accounts, but not ban them" saying they should ban those pros too. The difference here is:
They don't use those accounts in official blizzard tournaments
When you use an account that is played on by multiple people in an official online-tournament (offline it is completely fine to use a shared account in theory as you can see the person playing) you don't know who is playing, or you could try to trick someone into believing you're playing but someone else is to give you a boost.
On ladder it is the exact same effect of people not wanting you to know who you are with sharing their accounts so you get better or different training, because their opponent doesn't know who he plays against so he mostly doesn't play to counteract your specific style of play.
My point here: It is okay to have additional accounts you share with other players, as long as you don't use them in (official) tournaments. Which Vindicta (Retribution) did.
Difference is, he shared it with confirmed cheaters.
In the end it is a win win for Avoli. He doesn't claim to be or to want to become a professional player. He has very thin chance in qualifying anyway. He is a professional streamer. He is paid for people to know him. Now even more people talk about him, that's his job, don't blame him for it. Ignoring him is the best action if you don't like him.
On March 30 2017 14:22 avilo wrote: So i get punished for exposing the hacker and not thanked or given a second chance to qualify from the one i got robbed?
Blizzard logic at it's finest backwards. I hope the community does not put up for this bullshit, no matter if someone personally doesn't like me or not, i've never cheated in this game, and i just literally saved 3-4 other people that had their matches ruined by this hacker as well.
I deserve another chance to qualify as well. I had a right to be upset that they made me play vs him even before the match i presented evidence showing who he was, and they refused to DQ him. On top of that, WCS official casters live on stream gave me shit, as usual with their condescending tones (except tod) and even went so far as to lie and say hacks don't exist on SC2.
This is all around bullshit but i don't really expect much these days. I'm really hoping the SC2 community will stand up for me here, and the other players that are going to get another chance to qualify if they have any honor at all will stand up for me too for my chance to play that was robbed from me. Considering me even bringing all of this issue up in the first place is what is going to allow them to get re-games.
This is as usual another biased attempt against me from Blizzard. Just like when they permabanned me from the bnet forums for giving CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK about 3 rax reapers.
This is ridiculous.
Stop being an asshole and people would stand up for you, but the way you behave and insult everyone who doesn't agree with you will make sure nobody takes your side. Start to respect Blizzard, casters and tournament organisers and act like an adult.
You brought up how this situation would've been handled differently if it was Snute or a Korean pro. Do you think Snute or ByuN would've expressed their concerns in the same manner as you did?
Just think about your own actions for once. I think you got off lightly.
On March 30 2017 17:35 Corvuuss wrote: So I've seen this "They let more known pros share their accounts, but not ban them" saying they should ban those pros too. The difference here is:
They don't use those accounts in official blizzard tournaments
When you use an account that is played on by multiple people in an official online-tournament (offline it is completely fine to use a shared account in theory as you can see the person playing) you don't know who is playing, or you could try to trick someone into believing you're playing but someone else is to give you a boost.
On ladder it is the exact same effect of people not wanting you to know who you are with sharing their accounts so you get better or different training, because their opponent doesn't know who he plays against so he mostly doesn't play to counteract your specific style of play.
My point here: It is okay to have additional accounts you share with other players, as long as you don't use them in (official) tournaments. Which Vindicta (Retribution) did.
Your opinion is valid as you are entitled to it, however what you are saying does not match the TUA clearly defined by blizzard. They are picking and choosing when they want to enforce their policies even thought they are clearly defined and written. They turn a blind eye to scarlett/neeb/koreans and whoever else share accounts even though its publicly broadcasted on twitch. It's an oldboys club. The scene was ran the same way by certain figureheads of the community prior to wcs even being a thing. If they don't like you, they use every excuse to keep you out of the circle to make sure you don't make it. The sad part is, the scene would have actually grown substantially large had it been ran without this sort of bias. Truth is, the powers that be do not like avilo. They wanted an excuse to action him, he gave it to them, however, they couldn't do it without actioning the guy using a shared account. When has blizzard ever given a shit about shared accounts/hackers? ALMOST NEVER. FFS they banned the "hacker/account sharer" from the event BUT PROCEED TO LET HIM ROAM FREE ON BNET TO CONTINUE HACKING!?!? They truly don't care. We all know that. Yet they choose this instance to action someone? It's a load of crap. They rarely enforce actual policy unless they want to accomplish something else with it. If this was untrue, we'd see less hackers/shared accounts because they would be banning people out left and right. It seems like a clever way for blizzard to mask their intentions by using a shared account holder as a scapegoat and when you put the pieces together, watch other pros publicly broadcast account sharing with blizzard never taking any action at all and see it clearly for what it is, it just makes blizzard look bad and confirms that it is indeed an oldboys club. They've done this for years and but they fail to realize this type of leadership actually stifles the growth of their community/playerbase. Wake up people, this was a poorly executed rule enforcement with a hidden agenda to keep avilo out. If they truly cared about integrity of their competitive circuit, community and game in general, this would have been handled entirely differently.
The difference i see (and I think blizzard sees) is those pros you mentioned do no harm. While playing on a shared account in tournament very easily can be harmful. And I don't see why you should punish something that doesn't harm anyone
On March 30 2017 17:35 Corvuuss wrote: So I've seen this "They let more known pros share their accounts, but not ban them" saying they should ban those pros too. The difference here is:
They don't use those accounts in official blizzard tournaments
When you use an account that is played on by multiple people in an official online-tournament (offline it is completely fine to use a shared account in theory as you can see the person playing) you don't know who is playing, or you could try to trick someone into believing you're playing but someone else is to give you a boost.
On ladder it is the exact same effect of people not wanting you to know who you are with sharing their accounts so you get better or different training, because their opponent doesn't know who he plays against so he mostly doesn't play to counteract your specific style of play.
My point here: It is okay to have additional accounts you share with other players, as long as you don't use them in (official) tournaments. Which Vindicta (Retribution) did.
Your opinion is valid as you are entitled to it, however what you are saying does not match the TUA clearly defined by blizzard. They are picking and choosing when they want to enforce their policies even thought they are clearly defined and written. They turn a blind eye to scarlett/neeb/koreans and whoever else share accounts even though its publicly broadcasted on twitch. It's an oldboys club. The scene was ran the same way by certain figureheads of the community prior to wcs even being a thing. If they don't like you, they use every excuse to keep you out of the circle to make sure you don't make it. The sad part is, the scene would have actually grown substantially large had it been ran without this sort of bias. Truth is, the powers that be do not like avilo. [..] It seems like a clever way for blizzard to mask their intentions by using a shared account holder as a scapegoat and when you put the pieces together, watch other pros publicly broadcast account sharing with blizzard never taking any action at all and see it clearly for what it is, it just makes blizzard look bad and confirms that it is indeed an oldboys club. They've done this for years and but they fail to realize this type of leadership actually stifles the growth of their community/playerbase. Wake up people, this was a poorly executed rule enforcement with a hidden agenda to keep avilo out. If they truly cared about integrity of their competitive circuit, community and game in general, this would have been handled entirely differently.
As always people discount the importance of INTENT. Blizzard as a corporation have a legal department that looks over TUA, EULA and such. I would hell of a lot surprised if legal had no contact with the "ban"-department. Back to intent... The easiest example I can relate through hear-say is when theft is theft. If I am in a club and take your hat from you, that isnt theft. I would depriving you of the value of your property. If I take your hat and leave the club, that would be theft. When I leave the club it is reasonable to assume that I DONT INTENT TO RETURN your property to you. The former would deprivation of value the latter would be theft. What was the INTENT of the streamers that share accounts? I'd say laziness is part of it, some else mentioned getting unbiased(?) gameplay from your opponent. So the counter question is would you want to see streamers punished because of laziness, part of which is trying to provide a smooth experience to their viewers. Now you might disagree with that. But would you want the city you life in to punish J walking to the letter of the law not the spirit of the law?
On March 30 2017 13:44 AshC wrote: Nice ruling regarding the hacker issue but the Avilo ruling is rather lenient. I would ban him from WCS Austin altogether at least but this one is OK.
Plus he accused of cheating (and insulted) another opponent tonight after losing to him, and also all his history of BM opponent in professional games.
The thing is the guy actually played rather suspicius. Many small things like clicking on buildings that are under construction before getting vision of them. It wouldent be a surprise to me if Sottorks doesent win many games offline.
On March 30 2017 17:35 Corvuuss wrote: So I've seen this "They let more known pros share their accounts, but not ban them" saying they should ban those pros too. The difference here is:
They don't use those accounts in official blizzard tournaments
When you use an account that is played on by multiple people in an official online-tournament (offline it is completely fine to use a shared account in theory as you can see the person playing) you don't know who is playing, or you could try to trick someone into believing you're playing but someone else is to give you a boost.
On ladder it is the exact same effect of people not wanting you to know who you are with sharing their accounts so you get better or different training, because their opponent doesn't know who he plays against so he mostly doesn't play to counteract your specific style of play.
My point here: It is okay to have additional accounts you share with other players, as long as you don't use them in (official) tournaments. Which Vindicta (Retribution) did.
Your opinion is valid as you are entitled to it, however what you are saying does not match the TUA clearly defined by blizzard. They are picking and choosing when they want to enforce their policies even thought they are clearly defined and written. They turn a blind eye to scarlett/neeb/koreans and whoever else share accounts even though its publicly broadcasted on twitch. It's an oldboys club. The scene was ran the same way by certain figureheads of the community prior to wcs even being a thing. If they don't like you, they use every excuse to keep you out of the circle to make sure you don't make it. The sad part is, the scene would have actually grown substantially large had it been ran without this sort of bias. Truth is, the powers that be do not like avilo. They wanted an excuse to action him, he gave it to them, however, they couldn't do it without actioning the guy using a shared account. When has blizzard ever given a shit about shared accounts/hackers? ALMOST NEVER. FFS they banned the "hacker/account sharer" from the event BUT PROCEED TO LET HIM ROAM FREE ON BNET TO CONTINUE HACKING!?!? They truly don't care. We all know that. Yet they choose this instance to action someone? It's a load of crap. They rarely enforce actual policy unless they want to accomplish something else with it. If this was untrue, we'd see less hackers/shared accounts because they would be banning people out left and right. It seems like a clever way for blizzard to mask their intentions by using a shared account holder as a scapegoat and when you put the pieces together, watch other pros publicly broadcast account sharing with blizzard never taking any action at all and see it clearly for what it is, it just makes blizzard look bad and confirms that it is indeed an oldboys club. They've done this for years and but they fail to realize this type of leadership actually stifles the growth of their community/playerbase. Wake up people, this was a poorly executed rule enforcement with a hidden agenda to keep avilo out. If they truly cared about integrity of their competitive circuit, community and game in general, this would have been handled entirely differently.
The difference i see (and I think blizzard sees) is those pros you mentioned do no harm. While playing on a shared account in tournament very easily can be harmful. And I don't see why you should punish something that doesn't harm anyone
They share accounts which is strictly forbidden under blizzard's TUA. It's clearly written. It's not a situational rule. It's just that you can't share accounts. Blizzard isn't enforcing their policy when it comes to the "inner circle" are they? nope. They operate on a bias agenda outside of the TUA. Whoever is responsible for enforcing their policies needs a lesson in leadership. What they do affects the integrity and perception of their company/game. Enough of the oldboys club already. Ya'll have been doing it for 6-7 years already, can you clearly see it doesn't work? You've alienated your playerbase/community by operating this way. Letting hackers roam wide, enforcing policy only when it suits your agenda compromising your integrity as a professional esport. lol. cannot believe they banned the hacker/account sharer from the event and then proceed to let him run wild on battle.net. If that's not a slap in the face to your community then the world is shit. This rules enforcement was a clear bias decision made behind closed doors to keep avilo out. for example, Idra raged every god damn game. Nothing. Not even a slap on the wrist form blizzard. He was literally the most toxic pro there was in sc2, but he was in the inner circle so blizzard let him roam wild(the only reason he is gone is because he got fired by his sponsors). the community needs to wake up and realize that people in this scene are not treated and disciplined equally. God forbid you are outspoken or not liked, you'll get shunned by the innercircle or the organizers will make whatever call to keep you from being successful. It's pathetic when politics gets in the way of legitimate competition and the success of sc2. It's the prime reason sc2 has fallen from grace aside from blizzard's neglect to be proactive in balancing the game. This what you get when you let adults in their late twenties/early thirties wield power who do not know how to use it responsibly and ETHICALLY. It does more harm than good. I'll close my statement out with this...Does blizzard really think people want to play their game on their own free will, look up to role models/pros if this is being ran as an oldboys like? Do they REALLLLLLLY think bias agendas and bias decision making makes for a successful legitimate community/league/esport when they are too busy playing politics. I've watched people get in the way of Avilo for 6-7 years and it's pathetic. So what, he called some commentators a bunch of cucks, who gives a damn. To the decision makers behind this, you ought to reserve this decision and reflect on your leadershipskills. Your bias decision making(we all know its because you just don't like avilo as you don't enforce policy in all instances(neeb/scarlett/koreans sharing accounts-against TUA, mass hackers-nothing done about it) , only when it conveniently suits your agenda) does not inspire people to want to play your game in hopes of being the next pro on wcs. It makes me not want to watch competitive sc2. It makes me not want to tell people about WCS. Everyone needs to be treated equally or you will never grow bigger as an esport/league than you are now. Do you want to shrink? Because that is what will happen if you continue operating the way you do. Stop abusing your power as decision makers.Wake up. Reverse the Avilo Ban ASAP. I can't stand Avilo but you know what, He has one thing not a single player your leagues have to offer. Spirit and passion. Avilo has the passion, he has the fighting spirit. You need to showcase this and use this to your advantage and broadcast him as the underdog rising the ranks. Stop cock blocking him. The majority of your other pro gamers in your little inner circle have zero spirit, zero personality. I tune into a broadcast and I see a bunch of young adults trained to behave and act a certain way. I see zero personality. How is this relatable or fun to watch? It's boring and its the reason i only tune into a wcs/gsl broadcast once in a blue moon and not every broadcast even though I have the free time to do so. Avilo is literally the most interesting in SC2 right now and i hate him but you know what, he deserves a god damn shot. Reserve the Ban. Let him play his matches like everyone else is. Do the right thing.
I can somewhat relate. I played Cham in a tournament when he was BLATANTLY hacking, and I ended up getting disqualified for not being "mannered" towards him. It's a joke. They treat hackers and ex hackers with kids gloves. Basically encourage people to hack.
In HotS... playing vs hackers in WCS was common place. And, unless you were popular, like a Demuslim type, no one would even care to look into it. Pointless to even bring it up.
On March 30 2017 13:44 AshC wrote: Nice ruling regarding the hacker issue but the Avilo ruling is rather lenient. I would ban him from WCS Austin altogether at least but this one is OK.
Plus he accused of cheating (and insulted) another opponent tonight after losing to him, and also all his history of BM opponent in professional games.
The thing is the guy actually played rather suspicius. Many small things like clicking on buildings that are under construction before getting vision of them. It wouldent be a surprise to me if Sottorks doesent win many games offline.
Proof please, I watched all the avilo replays and saw 0 of clicking buildings through fog of war. This is 100% definitive proof of cheating and grounds for a perma ban. Accusing someone of this without being able to back it up would make you look like a real idiot!
On March 30 2017 19:13 playa wrote: I can somewhat relate. I played Cham in a tournament when he was BLATANTLY hacking, and I ended up getting disqualified for not being "mannered" towards him. It's a joke. They treat hackers and ex hackers with kids gloves. Basically encourage people to hack.
On the other hand, in HotS... playing vs hackers in WCS was common place. And, unless you were popular, like a Demuslim type, no one would even care to look into it. Pointless to even bring it up.
So did you compile evidence and post about it when it happened? Please link some proof to this.
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
Not only this, but i think this is a great opportunity to see who the snakes in the grass are, anyone who says "avilo should respect lower skilled players who disrespect him perpetually or else" are cancer to the community
people who are low skilled who get angry when people correct or overrule them compensate by saying tolerance and respect means i am equal to you but thats NOT right when talking about game iq or understanding whatsoever
basically we have a community trained by blizzard to pitchfork people who are critical and point out mistakes, and its because the people in charge are lowleague and compensate by saying "everyones equal" censoring valid opinions and allowing invalid opinions at their leisure.
what is the opposite of equal? racist? there is different leagues and those literally have different real gameknowledge and gamesense levels that increase from lowest to highest bronze to gm! This means that a GM informative opinion is more valid than a bronze informative opinion, its the elephant in the room!
a bronzeleaguer tells a GM "banelings are op" GM says "you need to split therefore they are not"
the piece of information changes everything because the bronzeleaguer cant perceive what to do and thus concludes its imbalanced,
a GM tells a Bronzie "mech is underpowered because no anti air" bronzie says "it works for me"
the bronzies level means things work at his level because other bronzies have not yet learned what to do against it
but he is both right and wrong at the same time, so who are we going to go with? THE GM
and why is this? because the bronzie will eventually get to GM if he wants to, but once you are at GM you are stuck and that means your claims of imbalance are VALID while the bronzies are NOT.
the moderators balancedesigners casters and 99% of the players in the community simply lack that piece of information enabling them to improve step by step and get GM, but until they do should RESPECT GRANDMASTER PLAYERS and never ever DEMAND GMS bow and scrape for THEM only because of their positions of POWER that they dont even deserve... who are they to judge him?!
this NONSENSE about "being respectful" as if they in their bronzeshoes get to judge someone like avilo is shameful, the fact we have a community that doesnt think its injustice for someone in bronzeleague to say Avilo doesnt deserve to call out this piece of crap CHEATER for who he is because they had their "feelings hurt" is SHAMEFUL
SHAME on you WCS, i hope i meet each and every one of you on the ladder, i guess ill have to smurf though because i cant hit your bronze butts with my R1 master accounts on the ladder, despicable!
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
Not only this, but i think this is a great opportunity to see who the snakes in the grass are, anyone who says "avilo should respect lower skilled players who disrespect him perpetually or else" are cancer to the community
people who are low skilled who get angry when people correct or overrule them compensate by saying tolerance and respect means i am equal to you but thats NOT right when talking about game iq or understanding whatsoever
basically we have a community trained by blizzard to pitchfork people who are critical and point out mistakes, and its because the people in charge are lowleague and compensate by saying "everyones equal" censoring valid opinions and allowing invalid opinions at their leisure.
what is the opposite of equal? racist? there is different leagues and those literally have different real gameknowledge and gamesense levels that increase from lowest to highest bronze to gm! This means that a GM informative opinion is more valid than a bronze informative opinion, its the elephant in the room!
a bronzeleaguer tells a GM "banelings are op" GM says "you need to split therefore they are not"
the piece of information changes everything because the bronzeleaguer cant perceive what to do and thus concludes its imbalanced,
a GM tells a Bronzie "mech is underpowered because no anti air" bronzie says "it works for me"
the bronzies level means things work at his level because other bronzies have not yet learned what to do against it
but he is both right and wrong at the same time, so who are we going to go with? THE GM
and why is this? because the bronzie will eventually get to GM if he wants to, but once you are at GM you are stuck and that means your claims of imbalance are VALID while the bronzies are NOT.
the moderators balancedesigners casters and 99% of the players in the community simply lack that piece of information enabling them to improve step by step and get GM, but until they do should RESPECT GRANDMASTER PLAYERS and never ever DEMAND GMS bow and scrape for THEM only because of their positions of POWER that they dont even deserve... who are they to judge him?!
this NONSENSE about "being respectful" as if they in their bronzeshoes get to judge someone like avilo is shameful, the fact we have a community that doesnt think its injustice for someone in bronzeleague to say Avilo doesnt deserve to call out this piece of crap CHEATER for who he is because they had their "feelings hurt" is SHAMEFUL
SHAME on you WCS, i hope i meet each and every one of you on the ladder, i guess ill have to smurf though because i cant hit your bronze butts with my R1 master accounts on the ladder, despicable!
Yeah bloody bronzies. My opinion is more important because I'm a leet Gold League Player.
On March 30 2017 19:13 playa wrote: I can somewhat relate. I played Cham in a tournament when he was BLATANTLY hacking, and I ended up getting disqualified for not being "mannered" towards him. It's a joke. They treat hackers and ex hackers with kids gloves. Basically encourage people to hack.
On the other hand, in HotS... playing vs hackers in WCS was common place. And, unless you were popular, like a Demuslim type, no one would even care to look into it. Pointless to even bring it up.
So did you compile evidence and post about it when it happened? Please link some proof to this.
It was some BS tournament I found on z33k in HotS. I reported that the guy hacked in "the thread," but after looking into it, was pointless to post replay. Apparently, guy has already admitted that he "used to hack." And, in SC 2... it makes no difference whether you've hacked 99.99% of the time, the question is only "did he hack today!" So, waste of time. People had already gone through the trouble to compile replay packs of their games vs him, since he was so suspicious.
But, as for my game... he never had any overlords, by expos, in a position to actually see when I took anything. He instantly reacted to a cannon rush attempt. But, the main thing is... he rallied his hatcheries to his main and sent his units to his main to stop a warp prism drop that he never scouted. Didn't even have a clue that I had a warp prism. He was blatant, he didn't care. He did the warp prism defense after I was already calling him out... He even joined a hacking clan in HotS... which I heard he got hacks for boosting.
Either way, I'm sure the guy is really good now, so no one cares. Like Testie in BW. But, until hacking is treated as a life time ban thing... it will always be rampant as long as its possible. And, it doesn't help that they only acknowledge hacking offenses if it happens to "big names."
On March 30 2017 19:13 playa wrote: I can somewhat relate. I played Cham in a tournament when he was BLATANTLY hacking, and I ended up getting disqualified for not being "mannered" towards him. It's a joke. They treat hackers and ex hackers with kids gloves. Basically encourage people to hack.
On the other hand, in HotS... playing vs hackers in WCS was common place. And, unless you were popular, like a Demuslim type, no one would even care to look into it. Pointless to even bring it up.
So did you compile evidence and post about it when it happened? Please link some proof to this.
It was some BS tournament I found on z33k in HotS. I reported that the guy hacked in "the thread," but after looking into it, was pointless to post replay. Apparently, guy has already admitted that he "used to hack." And, in SC 2... it makes no difference whether you've hacked 99.99% of the time, the question is only "did he hack today!" So, waste of time. People had already gone through the trouble to compile replay packs of their games vs him, since he was so suspicious.
But, as for my game... he never had any overlords, by expos, in a position to actually see when I took anything. He instantly reacted to a cannon rush attempt. But, the main thing is... he rallied his hatcheries to his main and sent his units to his main to stop a warp prism drop that he never scouted. Didn't even have a clue that I had a warp prism. He was blatant, he didn't care. He did the warp prism defense after I was already calling him out... He even joined a hacking clan in HotS... which I heard he got hacks for boosting.
Either way, I'm sure the guy is really good now, so no one cares. Like Testie in BW. But, until hacking is treated a life time ban thing... it will always be rampant as long as its possible. And, it doesn't help that they only acknowledge hacking offenses if it happens to "big names."
It's different if someone is outed as a cheater and is asked for a 2nd chance and excepts whatever punishment they are dealt. E.g. missing a year of tournament play or something. And toggling your cheats off this weekend for the WCS qualifier like you make it sound. Personally, i'm inclined to not give cheaters a second chance, especially in WCS, so I agree with you on that.
If you didn't post the replay or anything, that's not the communites fault for not taking it serious, it's your fault because you never even posted it ffs
On March 30 2017 19:13 playa wrote: I can somewhat relate. I played Cham in a tournament when he was BLATANTLY hacking, and I ended up getting disqualified for not being "mannered" towards him. It's a joke. They treat hackers and ex hackers with kids gloves. Basically encourage people to hack.
On the other hand, in HotS... playing vs hackers in WCS was common place. And, unless you were popular, like a Demuslim type, no one would even care to look into it. Pointless to even bring it up.
So did you compile evidence and post about it when it happened? Please link some proof to this.
It was some BS tournament I found on z33k in HotS. I reported that the guy hacked in "the thread," but after looking into it, was pointless to post replay. Apparently, guy has already admitted that he "used to hack." And, in SC 2... it makes no difference whether you've hacked 99.99% of the time, the question is only "did he hack today!" So, waste of time. People had already gone through the trouble to compile replay packs of their games vs him, since he was so suspicious.
But, as for my game... he never had any overlords, by expos, in a position to actually see when I took anything. He instantly reacted to a cannon rush attempt. But, the main thing is... he rallied his hatcheries to his main and sent his units to his main to stop a warp prism drop that he never scouted. Didn't even have a clue that I had a warp prism. He was blatant, he didn't care. He did the warp prism defense after I was already calling him out... He even joined a hacking clan in HotS... which I heard he got hacks for boosting.
Either way, I'm sure the guy is really good now, so no one cares. Like Testie in BW. But, until hacking is treated a life time ban thing... it will always be rampant as long as its possible. And, it doesn't help that they only acknowledge hacking offenses if it happens to "big names."
It's different if someone is outed as a cheater and is asked for a 2nd chance and excepts whatever punishment they are dealt. E.g. missing a year of tournament play or something. And toggling your cheats off this weekend for the WCS qualifier like you make it sound. Personally, i'm inclined to not give cheaters a second chance, especially in WCS, so I agree with you on that.
If you didn't post the replay or anything, that's not the communites fault for not taking it serious, it's your fault because you never even posted it ffs
It simply doesn't matter in SC 2. Guess how many people have hacked in SC 2 and even qualified for events? How many have been barred from events? People even defend Believe... a guy who uses the N word to everyone on the ladder, has had accounts banned for hacking, has replays that look like blatant hacking. It just does not f'ing matter.
You could hack vs me today and admit it... and it would be like okay... well... don't do it tomorrow!! Until thy start treating past congressions like crimes... where they end up handing out time to... makes no difference.
If you're not Demuslim, you're expected to just accept it. I think Virium hacked vs me. I just accepted it. Cause, that's what you do in SC 2. You bend over and you accept it.
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
Not only this, but i think this is a great opportunity to see who the snakes in the grass are, anyone who says "avilo should respect lower skilled players who disrespect him perpetually or else" are cancer to the community
people who are low skilled who get angry when people correct or overrule them compensate by saying tolerance and respect means i am equal to you but thats NOT right when talking about game iq or understanding whatsoever
basically we have a community trained by blizzard to pitchfork people who are critical and point out mistakes, and its because the people in charge are lowleague and compensate by saying "everyones equal" censoring valid opinions and allowing invalid opinions at their leisure.
So let me get this straight: your big issue with the community and the 'snakes in the grass' is that they expect players, especially high visibility players, treat others like human beings?
There are expectations for behavior in tournaments. Especially when on the main stream; intentional delays of thirty minutes plus didn't help.
If people can't abide by rules, then they don't have any place in a tournament
I strongly urge those who are supportive of avilo(whether you like him or not) to have the opportunity to be unbanned from the event and play his matches like the rest of his mates to start bombarding blizzard higher ups with tweets. The real story here is biased decision making when it comes to rules enforcement. A decision maker serving their own preferences/agenda rather than guiding/supporting the players for success. Feel free to scroll back to pages 1-3 for my full explanation on why I believe this be supported by historical facts through out the lifespan of professional sc2. Avilo deserves a shot, show your support for the underdog here. This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has ever had to date. The inner circle has always done everything to keep him out, i've watched it for years on streams, this forum, event broadcasts, you name it. From Nony always talking shit on him on these forums in an attempt to influence others and sabotage Avilo's reputation to incontrol bashing on him. The inner circle just doesn't like him and refuse to give the guy an equal shot. Why? Because one time in the beta their ego was rubbed the wrong way in game due to some chatter being typed. Blizzard/WCS decision makers/organizaers constantly bend policies/rules and turn a blind eye for other players(Scarlett/Neeb/Koreans sharing accounts, yes guys, it's a fact, it's been streamed many times). Not for avilo though. We need to support Avilo, whether you like him or not. Why? Because everyone deserves an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY and chance in this world. Hell, I think the guy sounds annoying. But he is interesting to watch. We should all be tweeting relentlessly at the higher ups at blizzard in regards to this. Not just the WCS TOs, but the people that make the money decisions for WCS. These are the people who care the most how the money is spent and the ROI. They need to know whats going on. They need to know the way this league is being operated and how it is compromising the integrity of fair competition and fair treatment as well as the effects it carries long term on their investment/league. I'll be writing lengthy statements to several employees outside of the oldboys club in an attempt to paint an accurate picture of whats going on here. Again, even if you don't like avilo, send a tweet. The big picture here is INTEGRITY. If you stand for all things good/true and value integrity/equal treatment/equal opportunities, start sending tweets and start writing letters. I've started to compile a fair bit of evidence of audio footage/screenshots of pros in this "old boys" club regularly breaking the TUA who regularly get a free pass from other people in power fromtheir respective vods in livestreams to present to blizzard employees with greater power. Send out tweets, send out letters. Lets represent fair competition, integrity, equal treatment and equal opportunity. Without these qualities, where is the inspiration to play this game in an attempt to capture the glory of a progamer making it on camera in wcs? It doesn't exist without these qualities and it is one of the MAJOR reasons the scene is in it's current state. Send your tweets, send your letters. Stand up for what is right and let our voices be heard.
This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has to offer. People who used to play/watch don't care about the current players much and have moved on. I bet if you mention Avilo's name they will do a double take and tune into a broadcast to see him.
The SC2 community is so far gone that it will attack the person not cheating and say they deserve a ban for saying words to someone in a tournament that is the person hacking.
ROFL.
Stay classy SC2. We live in a really backwards world. I remember a time when hackers were actually punished, and the community wouldn't ban the person that exposes and proves they are hacking.
OH wait, that was Brood War. Apparently i'm not allowed to get angry that Blizzard forced me and others to play versus a known hacker in a tournament.
But ok, keep using the "it's avilo" "he deserves to be banned" backwards logic.
Everyone here knows i deserve to have another chance at that first qualifier.
On March 30 2017 20:03 avilo wrote: The SC2 community is so far gone that it will attack the person not cheating and say they deserve a ban for saying words to someone in a tournament that is the person hacking.
ROFL.
Stay classy SC2. We live in a really backwards world. I remember a time when hackers were actually punished, and the community wouldn't ban the person that exposes and proves they are hacking.
OH wait, that was Brood War. Apparently i'm not allowed to get angry that Blizzard forced me and others to play versus a known hacker in a tournament.
But ok, keep using the "it's avilo" "he deserves to be banned" backwards logic.
Everyone here knows i deserve to have another chance at that first qualifier.
The hacker was punished though.
Also. Your logic is backwards, you told the caster of the event to "keep his pussy ass mouth shut, or i'll expose him for the beta cuck he is". Now it's everyone else who is classless? Not to mention this was after you held up the cast mid series to verbally abuse the admin.
On March 30 2017 20:00 ReachTheSky wrote: I strongly urge those who are supportive of avilo(whether you like him or not) to have the opportunity to be unbanned from the event and play his matches like the rest of his mates to start bombarding blizzard higher ups with tweets. The real story here is biased decision making when it comes to rules enforcement. A decision maker serving their own preferences/agenda rather than guiding/supporting the players for success. Feel free to scroll back to pages 1-3 for my full explanation on why I believe this be supported by historical facts through out the lifespan of professional sc2. Avilo deserves a shot, show your support for the underdog here. This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has ever had to date. The inner circle has always done everything to keep him out, i've watched it for years on streams, this forum, event broadcasts, you name it. From Nony always talking shit on him on these forums in an attempt to influence others and sabotage Avilo's reputation to incontrol bashing on him. The inner circle just doesn't like him and refuse to give the guy an equal shot. Why? Because one time in the beta their ego was rubbed the wrong way in game due to some chatter being typed. Blizzard/WCS decision makers/organizaers constantly bend policies/rules and turn a blind eye for other players(Scarlett/Neeb/Koreans sharing accounts, yes guys, it's a fact, it's been streamed many times). Not for avilo though. We need to support Avilo, whether you like him or not. Why? Because everyone deserves an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY and chance in this world. Hell, I think the guy sounds annoying. But he is interesting to watch. We should all be tweeting relentlessly at the higher ups at blizzard in regards to this. Not just the WCS TOs, but the people that make the money decisions for WCS. These are the people who care the most how the money is spent and the ROI. They need to know whats going on. They need to know the way this league is being operated and how it is compromising the integrity of fair competition and fair treatment as well as the effects it carries long term on their investment/league. I'll be writing lengthy statements to several employees outside of the oldboys club in an attempt to paint an accurate picture of whats going on here. Again, even if you don't like avilo, send a tweet. The big picture here is INTEGRITY. If you stand for all things good/true and value integrity/equal treatment/equal opportunities, start sending tweets and start writing letters. I've started to compile a fair bit of evidence of audio footage/screenshots of pros in this "old boys" club regularly breaking the TUA who regularly get a free pass from their respective vods in livestreams to present to blizzard employees with power. Send out tweets, send out letters. Lets represent fair competition, integrity, equal treatment and equal opportunity. Without these qualities, where is the inspiration to play this game in an attempt to capture the glory of a progamer making it on camera in wcs. It doesn't exist without these qualities. Send your tweets, send your letters. Stand up for what is right and let our voices be heard.
This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has to offer. People who used to play/watch don't care about the current players much and have moved on. I bet if you mention Avilo's name they will do a double take and tune into a broadcast to see him.
A few things:
1. The formatting on this makes it hard to read. 2. You say things like 'he needs equal opportunity'
He's had that. I feel like after years of calling everyone a hacker, blames everything on imbalance,
3. You say other people haven't given him a fair shake: I suppose being flamed constantly sure did wonders to improve their opinion of him.
He's sat around accusing of Snute of hacking.
Honestly, the only way this would be favoritism or unethical treatment of players is if they DIDN'T punish him. Rules are the for a reason, and proper respect and dignity shouldn't be something that's that hard to expect.
On March 30 2017 20:00 ReachTheSky wrote: I strongly urge those who are supportive of avilo(whether you like him or not) to have the opportunity to be unbanned from the event and play his matches like the rest of his mates to start bombarding blizzard higher ups with tweets. The real story here is biased decision making when it comes to rules enforcement. A decision maker serving their own preferences/agenda rather than guiding/supporting the players for success. Feel free to scroll back to pages 1-3 for my full explanation on why I believe this be supported by historical facts through out the lifespan of professional sc2. Avilo deserves a shot, show your support for the underdog here. This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has ever had to date. The inner circle has always done everything to keep him out, i've watched it for years on streams, this forum, event broadcasts, you name it. From Nony always talking shit on him on these forums in an attempt to influence others and sabotage Avilo's reputation to incontrol bashing on him. The inner circle just doesn't like him and refuse to give the guy an equal shot. Why? Because one time in the beta their ego was rubbed the wrong way in game due to some chatter being typed. Blizzard/WCS decision makers/organizaers constantly bend policies/rules and turn a blind eye for other players(Scarlett/Neeb/Koreans sharing accounts, yes guys, it's a fact, it's been streamed many times). Not for avilo though. We need to support Avilo, whether you like him or not. Why? Because everyone deserves an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY and chance in this world. Hell, I think the guy sounds annoying. But he is interesting to watch. We should all be tweeting relentlessly at the higher ups at blizzard in regards to this. Not just the WCS TOs, but the people that make the money decisions for WCS. These are the people who care the most how the money is spent and the ROI. They need to know whats going on. They need to know the way this league is being operated and how it is compromising the integrity of fair competition and fair treatment as well as the effects it carries long term on their investment/league. I'll be writing lengthy statements to several employees outside of the oldboys club in an attempt to paint an accurate picture of whats going on here. Again, even if you don't like avilo, send a tweet. The big picture here is INTEGRITY. If you stand for all things good/true and value integrity/equal treatment/equal opportunities, start sending tweets and start writing letters. I've started to compile a fair bit of evidence of audio footage/screenshots of pros in this "old boys" club regularly breaking the TUA who regularly get a free pass from their respective vods in livestreams to present to blizzard employees with power. Send out tweets, send out letters. Lets represent fair competition, integrity, equal treatment and equal opportunity. Without these qualities, where is the inspiration to play this game in an attempt to capture the glory of a progamer making it on camera in wcs. It doesn't exist without these qualities. Send your tweets, send your letters. Stand up for what is right and let our voices be heard.
This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has to offer. People who used to play/watch don't care about the current players much and have moved on. I bet if you mention Avilo's name they will do a double take and tune into a broadcast to see him.
A few things:
1. The formatting on this makes it hard to read. 2. You say things like 'he needs equal opportunity'
He's had that. I feel like after years of calling everyone a hacker, blames everything on imbalance,
3. You say other people haven't given him a fair shake: I suppose being flamed constantly sure did wonders to improve their opinion of him.
He's sat around accusing of Snute of hacking.
Honestly, the only way this would be favoritism or unethical treatment of players is if they DIDN'T punish him. Rules are the for a reason, and proper respect and dignity shouldn't be something that's that hard to expect.
1.I'm not a writer, i never did well in english studies. I apologize for this. 2. You wouldn't believe the things the oldboys club or oldguard has done to take opportunities away from Avilo in the past. This is just one of many. 3. Avilo's actions are a transgression from how it all started. Sure he may not carry himself well at all times, but guess what? Not all the pros do. Whether he has earned his hate or note, he still isn't getting a fair shake and deserves one like everyone else. In regards to the snute hacking accusations, chances are he didn't know it was snute. If he did, maybe he said it out of anger because of he own flaws(which is probably more true). Snute has made hacking accusations on stream as well, he is just as guilty. It's not like Avilo made a formal accusation submitted to blizzard in regards to snute.. 4. I agree with the rules part, but several pros are given free passes all the time for breaks these rules. See snute/scarlett 's vods of them regularly sharing accounts/logging accounts. See korean progamers regularly sharing accounts. Every single one of them gets a free pass. Unethical to say the least, they oughtt to be banned as well if that is your stance. 5. This was a bias rules enforcement to cockblock avilo by the oldboys club in power. Why? Blizzard does not regularly enforce these policies. We all know this. Otherwise every practice partner would be banned for account sharing, otherwise hackers would be permabanned on a regular basis. Otherwise scarlet/neeb would not be in the wcs right. It's proof that blizzard picks and chooses when they want to enforce a rule. They didn't like avilo, they used the most bullshit reason to penalize him (a reddit post? really? something he said on his OWN stream? really?). Its not like avilo was saying this stuff while on an official live broadcast ran by blizzard or their forums or something). In order to try and mask the decision makers intentions in an attempt to come across as Just and Fair (cough bullshit cough), they had to use the "hacker/account sharer" as a scapegoat. It's all misdirection my friend. Avilo has always been treated this way by the old guard. They stated he wasn't hacking during the game but they banned him for sharing accounts which is against the TUA. WHY ISN"T EVERYONE ELSE GETTING BANNED FOR SHARING ACCOUNTS? It's a hidden agenda and it's bullshit and is detrimental to the integrity of professional sc2. This does not make me want to play sc2 one bit nor does it want to make me tune into a broadcast nor does it make me want to tell people about future broadcasts. WCS rules decision makers are putting the nail in their own coffin and they don't even realize it. What more can i expect from adults in their late twenties/earlier thirties who run hungry on power that don't know how to use it responsibly/ethically or even seen the BIG PICTURE.
On March 30 2017 19:45 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On March 30 2017 19:36 Elentos wrote:
On March 30 2017 19:35 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: What did Avilo say that he got punished for?
I reckon this had to do with it:
Ok lol. I thought he just talked trash to the hacking cheater which while not smart would be understandable.
He did that too, but I assume the Kaelaris comment didn't help at all.
How does what i post on my own blog, or livestream, or whatever matter for any of this? Answer? It doesn't. Nathanias, pig, kaelaris, list goes on and other players/casters have said worse or similar bs about other players or personalities in the scene and they receive zero punishment because they work for blizzard.
Kaelaris/pig trying to take a verbal shit on my name on a live cast in front of thousands of people, while also at the same time pretending hacking does not exist...this is allowed. But i run into a hacker, a known hacker, show evidence, and get punished for exposing the hacker...because of a post i make on reddit outside of the sphere of the tourney? Yeah.
This system is basically bullshit. Nothing was done about the same hacker i played over a year ago, they said the same exact canned response " we'll look into it." I got rightfully angry nothing was done this time and i got robbed of my qualifier spjot.
Then they find another excuse to ban me and not allow me to get my chance to qualify after they backtrack and realize that the guy does indeed maphack after they paraded him around on their live stream in front of thousands of viewers.
I mean...it's just ego at this point. They didn't want to admit i was right and they were wrong. So they continue to try and blacklist me for whatever bullshit reasons they can find.
I stick by what i said, and i deserve another shot at the first qualifier just like the other people that got robbed that had to play against Nero even after they were shown tons of evidence before and after my match that he was a KNOWN maphacker.
They of course will not punish their casters for being biased or trying to talk shit about me live on casts because they condone that type of thing. It's clear they have wanted me out of the scene since they permabanned me from the blizzard forums for posting about 3 rax reaper a few months ago.
Guess what, i'm not going anywhere. Maybe instead of continually taking a shit on the players still left in the SC2 scene, they should consider trying to treat the players left fairly and banning cheaters from their tourneys and LISTENING to the players.
That's kind of the crux of all of this. Blizzard does not listen to it's player base anymore.
On March 30 2017 20:03 avilo wrote: The SC2 community is so far gone that it will attack the person not cheating and say they deserve a ban for saying words to someone in a tournament that is the person hacking.
ROFL.
Stay classy SC2. We live in a really backwards world. I remember a time when hackers were actually punished, and the community wouldn't ban the person that exposes and proves they are hacking.
OH wait, that was Brood War. Apparently i'm not allowed to get angry that Blizzard forced me and others to play versus a known hacker in a tournament.
But ok, keep using the "it's avilo" "he deserves to be banned" backwards logic.
Everyone here knows i deserve to have another chance at that first qualifier.
Are they so afraid you would win the entire thing so decidedly the very thought of you participating is too much for them to the point they need ban you?
i mean, they are so triggered that you were right about vindicta and they were freaking wrong, they are seizuring on the floor grasping madly at straws to punish you which is just them projecting their anger from you being right about him cheating in the first place!
On March 30 2017 20:00 ReachTheSky wrote: I strongly urge those who are supportive of avilo(whether you like him or not) to have the opportunity to be unbanned from the event and play his matches like the rest of his mates to start bombarding blizzard higher ups with tweets. The real story here is biased decision making when it comes to rules enforcement. A decision maker serving their own preferences/agenda rather than guiding/supporting the players for success. Feel free to scroll back to pages 1-3 for my full explanation on why I believe this be supported by historical facts through out the lifespan of professional sc2. Avilo deserves a shot, show your support for the underdog here. This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has ever had to date. The inner circle has always done everything to keep him out, i've watched it for years on streams, this forum, event broadcasts, you name it. From Nony always talking shit on him on these forums in an attempt to influence others and sabotage Avilo's reputation to incontrol bashing on him. The inner circle just doesn't like him and refuse to give the guy an equal shot. Why? Because one time in the beta their ego was rubbed the wrong way in game due to some chatter being typed. Blizzard/WCS decision makers/organizaers constantly bend policies/rules and turn a blind eye for other players(Scarlett/Neeb/Koreans sharing accounts, yes guys, it's a fact, it's been streamed many times). Not for avilo though. We need to support Avilo, whether you like him or not. Why? Because everyone deserves an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY and chance in this world. Hell, I think the guy sounds annoying. But he is interesting to watch. We should all be tweeting relentlessly at the higher ups at blizzard in regards to this. Not just the WCS TOs, but the people that make the money decisions for WCS. These are the people who care the most how the money is spent and the ROI. They need to know whats going on. They need to know the way this league is being operated and how it is compromising the integrity of fair competition and fair treatment as well as the effects it carries long term on their investment/league. I'll be writing lengthy statements to several employees outside of the oldboys club in an attempt to paint an accurate picture of whats going on here. Again, even if you don't like avilo, send a tweet. The big picture here is INTEGRITY. If you stand for all things good/true and value integrity/equal treatment/equal opportunities, start sending tweets and start writing letters. I've started to compile a fair bit of evidence of audio footage/screenshots of pros in this "old boys" club regularly breaking the TUA who regularly get a free pass from other people in power fromtheir respective vods in livestreams to present to blizzard employees with greater power. Send out tweets, send out letters. Lets represent fair competition, integrity, equal treatment and equal opportunity. Without these qualities, where is the inspiration to play this game in an attempt to capture the glory of a progamer making it on camera in wcs? It doesn't exist without these qualities and it is one of the MAJOR reasons the scene is in it's current state. Send your tweets, send your letters. Stand up for what is right and let our voices be heard.
This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has to offer. People who used to play/watch don't care about the current players much and have moved on. I bet if you mention Avilo's name they will do a double take and tune into a broadcast to see him.
On March 30 2017 20:03 avilo wrote: The SC2 community is so far gone that it will attack the person not cheating and say they deserve a ban for saying words to someone in a tournament that is the person hacking.
ROFL.
Stay classy SC2. We live in a really backwards world. I remember a time when hackers were actually punished, and the community wouldn't ban the person that exposes and proves they are hacking.
OH wait, that was Brood War. Apparently i'm not allowed to get angry that Blizzard forced me and others to play versus a known hacker in a tournament.
But ok, keep using the "it's avilo" "he deserves to be banned" backwards logic.
Everyone here knows i deserve to have another chance at that first qualifier.
Are they so afraid you would win the entire thing so decidedly the very thought of you participating is too much for them to the point they need ban you?
i mean, they are so triggered that you were right about vindicta and they were freaking wrong, they are seizuring on the floor grasping madly at straws to punish you which is just them projecting their anger from you being right about him cheating in the first place!
Are you guys trolling? Or are you guys "stupid"(dont know if he is playing his role or not) as avilo? A guy, who insults his oponnents and blame them as "hacker" in live stram, should get his chance and need support? Are you ... serious? He wasn't only angry and mad, he INSULTED A CASTER in a OFFICIAL BLIZZARD TOURNAMENT Qualfier in FRONT OF THOUSANDS VIEWERS? So they should ignore it, and let him play like if nothing happened? I seriously dont know, if you guys are avilo in his "other" Teamliquid accounts or ignorant stupid kids, thinking behaving like him is normal thing.
"In the course of our investigation, we discovered that Vindicta was one of several players logging into accounts that had been actioned for hacking in the past, and also had known hackers logging onto accounts under his name. "
The Blizzard rep in the initial thread said that Nero had been accused and investigated last year during WCS, but they didn't find anything. Now Blizzard cites this reason saying he's gone in accounts that have been actioned for hacking, and has had hackers log in to his account.
So did Blizzard ACTUALLY take this accusation seriously last year and do any investigation at all? Or did they actually have to take it seriously this time around given the community/player (jason, ruff, noregret, etc...) backlash they received?
So if investigations are all after the fact, then that means Nero or any hacker (or former hacker) could potentially enter into every qualifier, and after an investigation is done post-tournament, the players affected have to replay for a spot? Seems like that ends up being very frustrating for the players and very inefficient overall.
If blizzard refuses to reverse their ban on Avilo, they are literally saying to the community the following: 1:good manners > good gameplay, even though people don't tune in to watch how nice some acts, viewers tune in to see good game play. Perhaps this should be called the world morals series to see who can be morally correct on a more frequent basis than their opponent. 2:we prefer to conditionally enforce rules, play favorites, turn a blind eye when it comes to the in-crowd when it comes to enforcing policy and like to avoid giving equal opportunities, even to underdogs. 3:we don't value the community, we value what the oldboys club/old guard thinks over all because they(oldboys club) want to keep their status as progamers and are afraid to face avilo in a televised match should he qualify and crush them. 4:we don't value integrity, fair competition, equal opportunity, equal treatment among all our players. Even though the one being pentalize has promoted their championship game the longest out of all the remaining players via publicly access streams.
On March 30 2017 20:00 ReachTheSky wrote: I strongly urge those who are supportive of avilo(whether you like him or not) to have the opportunity to be unbanned from the event and play his matches like the rest of his mates to start bombarding blizzard higher ups with tweets. The real story here is biased decision making when it comes to rules enforcement. A decision maker serving their own preferences/agenda rather than guiding/supporting the players for success. Feel free to scroll back to pages 1-3 for my full explanation on why I believe this be supported by historical facts through out the lifespan of professional sc2. Avilo deserves a shot, show your support for the underdog here. This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has ever had to date. The inner circle has always done everything to keep him out, i've watched it for years on streams, this forum, event broadcasts, you name it. From Nony always talking shit on him on these forums in an attempt to influence others and sabotage Avilo's reputation to incontrol bashing on him. The inner circle just doesn't like him and refuse to give the guy an equal shot. Why? Because one time in the beta their ego was rubbed the wrong way in game due to some chatter being typed. Blizzard/WCS decision makers/organizaers constantly bend policies/rules and turn a blind eye for other players(Scarlett/Neeb/Koreans sharing accounts, yes guys, it's a fact, it's been streamed many times). Not for avilo though. We need to support Avilo, whether you like him or not. Why? Because everyone deserves an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY and chance in this world. Hell, I think the guy sounds annoying. But he is interesting to watch. We should all be tweeting relentlessly at the higher ups at blizzard in regards to this. Not just the WCS TOs, but the people that make the money decisions for WCS. These are the people who care the most how the money is spent and the ROI. They need to know whats going on. They need to know the way this league is being operated and how it is compromising the integrity of fair competition and fair treatment as well as the effects it carries long term on their investment/league. I'll be writing lengthy statements to several employees outside of the oldboys club in an attempt to paint an accurate picture of whats going on here. Again, even if you don't like avilo, send a tweet. The big picture here is INTEGRITY. If you stand for all things good/true and value integrity/equal treatment/equal opportunities, start sending tweets and start writing letters. I've started to compile a fair bit of evidence of audio footage/screenshots of pros in this "old boys" club regularly breaking the TUA who regularly get a free pass from other people in power fromtheir respective vods in livestreams to present to blizzard employees with greater power. Send out tweets, send out letters. Lets represent fair competition, integrity, equal treatment and equal opportunity. Without these qualities, where is the inspiration to play this game in an attempt to capture the glory of a progamer making it on camera in wcs? It doesn't exist without these qualities and it is one of the MAJOR reasons the scene is in it's current state. Send your tweets, send your letters. Stand up for what is right and let our voices be heard.
This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has to offer. People who used to play/watch don't care about the current players much and have moved on. I bet if you mention Avilo's name they will do a double take and tune into a broadcast to see him.
On March 30 2017 20:03 avilo wrote: The SC2 community is so far gone that it will attack the person not cheating and say they deserve a ban for saying words to someone in a tournament that is the person hacking.
ROFL.
Stay classy SC2. We live in a really backwards world. I remember a time when hackers were actually punished, and the community wouldn't ban the person that exposes and proves they are hacking.
OH wait, that was Brood War. Apparently i'm not allowed to get angry that Blizzard forced me and others to play versus a known hacker in a tournament.
But ok, keep using the "it's avilo" "he deserves to be banned" backwards logic.
Everyone here knows i deserve to have another chance at that first qualifier.
Are they so afraid you would win the entire thing so decidedly the very thought of you participating is too much for them to the point they need ban you?
i mean, they are so triggered that you were right about vindicta and they were freaking wrong, they are seizuring on the floor grasping madly at straws to punish you which is just them projecting their anger from you being right about him cheating in the first place!
Are you guys trolling? Or are you guys "stupid"(dont know if he is playing his role or not) as avilo? A guy, who insults his oponnents and blame them as "hacker" in live stram, should get his chance and need support? Are you ... serious? He wasn't only angry and mad, he INSULTED A CASTER in a OFFICIAL BLIZZARD TOURNAMENT Qualfier in FRONT OF THOUSANDS VIEWERS? So they should ignore it, and let him play like if nothing happened? I seriously dont know, if you guys are avilo in his "other" Teamliquid accounts or ignorant stupid kids, thinking behaving like him is normal thing.
Avilo insulted them in his own private arena, his live stream. WCS caster could have prevent anything from being shown on any official stream. If anything did get shown, the casters should be held accountable for anything within their official stream, and should be punished from not controlling their own environment(their stream), not Avilo.
On March 30 2017 20:00 ReachTheSky wrote: I strongly urge those who are supportive of avilo(whether you like him or not) to have the opportunity to be unbanned from the event and play his matches like the rest of his mates to start bombarding blizzard higher ups with tweets. The real story here is biased decision making when it comes to rules enforcement. A decision maker serving their own preferences/agenda rather than guiding/supporting the players for success. Feel free to scroll back to pages 1-3 for my full explanation on why I believe this be supported by historical facts through out the lifespan of professional sc2. Avilo deserves a shot, show your support for the underdog here. This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has ever had to date. The inner circle has always done everything to keep him out, i've watched it for years on streams, this forum, event broadcasts, you name it. From Nony always talking shit on him on these forums in an attempt to influence others and sabotage Avilo's reputation to incontrol bashing on him. The inner circle just doesn't like him and refuse to give the guy an equal shot. Why? Because one time in the beta their ego was rubbed the wrong way in game due to some chatter being typed. Blizzard/WCS decision makers/organizaers constantly bend policies/rules and turn a blind eye for other players(Scarlett/Neeb/Koreans sharing accounts, yes guys, it's a fact, it's been streamed many times). Not for avilo though. We need to support Avilo, whether you like him or not. Why? Because everyone deserves an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY and chance in this world. Hell, I think the guy sounds annoying. But he is interesting to watch. We should all be tweeting relentlessly at the higher ups at blizzard in regards to this. Not just the WCS TOs, but the people that make the money decisions for WCS. These are the people who care the most how the money is spent and the ROI. They need to know whats going on. They need to know the way this league is being operated and how it is compromising the integrity of fair competition and fair treatment as well as the effects it carries long term on their investment/league. I'll be writing lengthy statements to several employees outside of the oldboys club in an attempt to paint an accurate picture of whats going on here. Again, even if you don't like avilo, send a tweet. The big picture here is INTEGRITY. If you stand for all things good/true and value integrity/equal treatment/equal opportunities, start sending tweets and start writing letters. I've started to compile a fair bit of evidence of audio footage/screenshots of pros in this "old boys" club regularly breaking the TUA who regularly get a free pass from other people in power fromtheir respective vods in livestreams to present to blizzard employees with greater power. Send out tweets, send out letters. Lets represent fair competition, integrity, equal treatment and equal opportunity. Without these qualities, where is the inspiration to play this game in an attempt to capture the glory of a progamer making it on camera in wcs? It doesn't exist without these qualities and it is one of the MAJOR reasons the scene is in it's current state. Send your tweets, send your letters. Stand up for what is right and let our voices be heard.
This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has to offer. People who used to play/watch don't care about the current players much and have moved on. I bet if you mention Avilo's name they will do a double take and tune into a broadcast to see him.
On March 30 2017 20:03 avilo wrote: The SC2 community is so far gone that it will attack the person not cheating and say they deserve a ban for saying words to someone in a tournament that is the person hacking.
ROFL.
Stay classy SC2. We live in a really backwards world. I remember a time when hackers were actually punished, and the community wouldn't ban the person that exposes and proves they are hacking.
OH wait, that was Brood War. Apparently i'm not allowed to get angry that Blizzard forced me and others to play versus a known hacker in a tournament.
But ok, keep using the "it's avilo" "he deserves to be banned" backwards logic.
Everyone here knows i deserve to have another chance at that first qualifier.
Are they so afraid you would win the entire thing so decidedly the very thought of you participating is too much for them to the point they need ban you?
i mean, they are so triggered that you were right about vindicta and they were freaking wrong, they are seizuring on the floor grasping madly at straws to punish you which is just them projecting their anger from you being right about him cheating in the first place!
Are you guys trolling? Or are you guys "stupid"(dont know if he is playing his role or not) as avilo? A guy, who insults his oponnents and blame them as "hacker" in live stram, should get his chance and need support? Are you ... serious? He wasn't only angry and mad, he INSULTED A CASTER in a OFFICIAL BLIZZARD TOURNAMENT Qualfier in FRONT OF THOUSANDS VIEWERS? So they should ignore it, and let him play like if nothing happened? I seriously dont know, if you guys are avilo in his "other" Teamliquid accounts or ignorant stupid kids, thinking behaving like him is normal thing.
Someone being toxic and having a poor attitude doesn't give other people the right to be that way. Have you seen some of the stuff that is said to Avilo in the reddit threads? Or anyone they think may agree with any points made by Avilo? Users who brought up Nero's history faced a lot of insults, just because Avilo brought up the initial accusation.
In terms of the insults.... Kaelaris bashed Avilo on the main stream. That is highly unprofessional. And did you see the reddit thread where Avilo replied with that insult? Ironic how so many cry about toxicity but then end up being incredibly toxic and spit some horrific vitriol. Not at ALL debating that Avilo didn't have a poor attitude. just saying that there is no justification to say that because someone is toxic, that you are justified in behaving that way or worse.
"First, we conclude that Vindicta did not use hacks during his most recent WCS Challenger matches.
Second, in the many public ladder matches reviewed by us, Vindicta was either not using hacks, or the reported account was not piloted by Vindicta at that time."
He wasn't hacking, and most likely never hacked. Someone whom he shared his account with hacked. Not him. How is that difficult to understand? Avilo was wrong and lost straight up, then broke tournament rules and got himself disqualified. lol
I demand to see their "investigation". Avilo was one of multiple players that tournament who had reported Vindicta/was suspicious of his gameplay. BTW, Blizzard, Did you know there is an UNDETECTABLE hack for your game? You can't even tell if someone is hacking anymore these days. SMH.
Blizzard's/WCS's transparency here is poor at best and their story is so flawed it's not even funny.
On March 30 2017 20:00 ReachTheSky wrote: I strongly urge those who are supportive of avilo(whether you like him or not) to have the opportunity to be unbanned from the event and play his matches like the rest of his mates to start bombarding blizzard higher ups with tweets. The real story here is biased decision making when it comes to rules enforcement. A decision maker serving their own preferences/agenda rather than guiding/supporting the players for success. Feel free to scroll back to pages 1-3 for my full explanation on why I believe this be supported by historical facts through out the lifespan of professional sc2. Avilo deserves a shot, show your support for the underdog here. This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has ever had to date. The inner circle has always done everything to keep him out, i've watched it for years on streams, this forum, event broadcasts, you name it. From Nony always talking shit on him on these forums in an attempt to influence others and sabotage Avilo's reputation to incontrol bashing on him. The inner circle just doesn't like him and refuse to give the guy an equal shot. Why? Because one time in the beta their ego was rubbed the wrong way in game due to some chatter being typed. Blizzard/WCS decision makers/organizaers constantly bend policies/rules and turn a blind eye for other players(Scarlett/Neeb/Koreans sharing accounts, yes guys, it's a fact, it's been streamed many times). Not for avilo though. We need to support Avilo, whether you like him or not. Why? Because everyone deserves an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY and chance in this world. Hell, I think the guy sounds annoying. But he is interesting to watch. We should all be tweeting relentlessly at the higher ups at blizzard in regards to this. Not just the WCS TOs, but the people that make the money decisions for WCS. These are the people who care the most how the money is spent and the ROI. They need to know whats going on. They need to know the way this league is being operated and how it is compromising the integrity of fair competition and fair treatment as well as the effects it carries long term on their investment/league. I'll be writing lengthy statements to several employees outside of the oldboys club in an attempt to paint an accurate picture of whats going on here. Again, even if you don't like avilo, send a tweet. The big picture here is INTEGRITY. If you stand for all things good/true and value integrity/equal treatment/equal opportunities, start sending tweets and start writing letters. I've started to compile a fair bit of evidence of audio footage/screenshots of pros in this "old boys" club regularly breaking the TUA who regularly get a free pass from other people in power fromtheir respective vods in livestreams to present to blizzard employees with greater power. Send out tweets, send out letters. Lets represent fair competition, integrity, equal treatment and equal opportunity. Without these qualities, where is the inspiration to play this game in an attempt to capture the glory of a progamer making it on camera in wcs? It doesn't exist without these qualities and it is one of the MAJOR reasons the scene is in it's current state. Send your tweets, send your letters. Stand up for what is right and let our voices be heard.
This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has to offer. People who used to play/watch don't care about the current players much and have moved on. I bet if you mention Avilo's name they will do a double take and tune into a broadcast to see him.
On March 30 2017 20:49 FoxDog wrote:
On March 30 2017 20:03 avilo wrote: The SC2 community is so far gone that it will attack the person not cheating and say they deserve a ban for saying words to someone in a tournament that is the person hacking.
ROFL.
Stay classy SC2. We live in a really backwards world. I remember a time when hackers were actually punished, and the community wouldn't ban the person that exposes and proves they are hacking.
OH wait, that was Brood War. Apparently i'm not allowed to get angry that Blizzard forced me and others to play versus a known hacker in a tournament.
But ok, keep using the "it's avilo" "he deserves to be banned" backwards logic.
Everyone here knows i deserve to have another chance at that first qualifier.
Are they so afraid you would win the entire thing so decidedly the very thought of you participating is too much for them to the point they need ban you?
i mean, they are so triggered that you were right about vindicta and they were freaking wrong, they are seizuring on the floor grasping madly at straws to punish you which is just them projecting their anger from you being right about him cheating in the first place!
Are you guys trolling? Or are you guys "stupid"(dont know if he is playing his role or not) as avilo? A guy, who insults his oponnents and blame them as "hacker" in live stram, should get his chance and need support? Are you ... serious? He wasn't only angry and mad, he INSULTED A CASTER in a OFFICIAL BLIZZARD TOURNAMENT Qualfier in FRONT OF THOUSANDS VIEWERS? So they should ignore it, and let him play like if nothing happened? I seriously dont know, if you guys are avilo in his "other" Teamliquid accounts or ignorant stupid kids, thinking behaving like him is normal thing.
Avilo insulted them in his own private arena, his live stream. WCS caster could have prevent anything from being shown on any official stream. If anything did get shown, the casters should be held accountable for anything within their official stream, and should be punished from not controlling their own environment(their stream), not Avilo.
What. It's not a private space if it's on stream.
Three are a lot of important lessons being dolled out today: people are learning left and right that what they say and do might have repercussions.
If you don't want people to judge/hold you accountable for what you say, write it down in a little spiral notebook that you don't share with anyone.
That's how you can avoid this situation.
People keep saying 'it's just because it's avilo' - which I would disagree with. It is, however, 'just because of his actions.' if you throw temper tantrums, and start insulting everyone all over the place, that won't win you any favors, and (in this case, since it is against the clearly stated rules) get you DQ'd from the tournament.
On March 30 2017 21:28 ReachTheSky wrote: I demand to see their "investigation". Avilo was one of multiple players that tournament who had reported Vindicta/was suspicious of his gameplay. BTW, Blizzard, Did you know there is an UNDETECTABLE hack for your game? You can't even tell if someone is hacking anymore these days. SMH.
Blizzard's/WCS's transparency here is poor at best and their story is so flawed it's not even funny.
Lol. What. You 'demand' to see this investigation?
Blizzard has no need to be transparent. They've already said their piece.
You got what you wanted: the bad guy was banned, and in throwing a fit, your guy got DQ'd as well.
Edit: victus was banned because of account sharing (according to the shared information). That is a lot easier for them to prove than hacks, since it's not like Blizzard keeps a replay of every match played
This is literally the most interesting SC2 has been in a long time and yet blizzard/wcs wants to ruin it lol. Lets all act like conditioned superficial boring robots, surely those sc2 nerds will want to see that! No one can relate to that nonsense. enough of of this white knight moral nonsense. That's not what this game is about and it's not why people watch starcraft. So what, he called commentator a beta cuck, who cares, i'm pretty sure the rest of the commentator staff believes the same thing. Hell, Tasteless always manages to make Kaelaris out to look like a beta cuck on stream anyway so what difference does it make?
On March 30 2017 20:00 ReachTheSky wrote: I strongly urge those who are supportive of avilo(whether you like him or not) to have the opportunity to be unbanned from the event and play his matches like the rest of his mates to start bombarding blizzard higher ups with tweets. The real story here is biased decision making when it comes to rules enforcement. A decision maker serving their own preferences/agenda rather than guiding/supporting the players for success. Feel free to scroll back to pages 1-3 for my full explanation on why I believe this be supported by historical facts through out the lifespan of professional sc2. Avilo deserves a shot, show your support for the underdog here. This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has ever had to date. The inner circle has always done everything to keep him out, i've watched it for years on streams, this forum, event broadcasts, you name it. From Nony always talking shit on him on these forums in an attempt to influence others and sabotage Avilo's reputation to incontrol bashing on him. The inner circle just doesn't like him and refuse to give the guy an equal shot. Why? Because one time in the beta their ego was rubbed the wrong way in game due to some chatter being typed. Blizzard/WCS decision makers/organizaers constantly bend policies/rules and turn a blind eye for other players(Scarlett/Neeb/Koreans sharing accounts, yes guys, it's a fact, it's been streamed many times). Not for avilo though. We need to support Avilo, whether you like him or not. Why? Because everyone deserves an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY and chance in this world. Hell, I think the guy sounds annoying. But he is interesting to watch. We should all be tweeting relentlessly at the higher ups at blizzard in regards to this. Not just the WCS TOs, but the people that make the money decisions for WCS. These are the people who care the most how the money is spent and the ROI. They need to know whats going on. They need to know the way this league is being operated and how it is compromising the integrity of fair competition and fair treatment as well as the effects it carries long term on their investment/league. I'll be writing lengthy statements to several employees outside of the oldboys club in an attempt to paint an accurate picture of whats going on here. Again, even if you don't like avilo, send a tweet. The big picture here is INTEGRITY. If you stand for all things good/true and value integrity/equal treatment/equal opportunities, start sending tweets and start writing letters. I've started to compile a fair bit of evidence of audio footage/screenshots of pros in this "old boys" club regularly breaking the TUA who regularly get a free pass from other people in power fromtheir respective vods in livestreams to present to blizzard employees with greater power. Send out tweets, send out letters. Lets represent fair competition, integrity, equal treatment and equal opportunity. Without these qualities, where is the inspiration to play this game in an attempt to capture the glory of a progamer making it on camera in wcs? It doesn't exist without these qualities and it is one of the MAJOR reasons the scene is in it's current state. Send your tweets, send your letters. Stand up for what is right and let our voices be heard.
This could very well be the most interesting storyline sc2 has to offer. People who used to play/watch don't care about the current players much and have moved on. I bet if you mention Avilo's name they will do a double take and tune into a broadcast to see him.
On March 30 2017 20:49 FoxDog wrote:
On March 30 2017 20:03 avilo wrote: The SC2 community is so far gone that it will attack the person not cheating and say they deserve a ban for saying words to someone in a tournament that is the person hacking.
ROFL.
Stay classy SC2. We live in a really backwards world. I remember a time when hackers were actually punished, and the community wouldn't ban the person that exposes and proves they are hacking.
OH wait, that was Brood War. Apparently i'm not allowed to get angry that Blizzard forced me and others to play versus a known hacker in a tournament.
But ok, keep using the "it's avilo" "he deserves to be banned" backwards logic.
Everyone here knows i deserve to have another chance at that first qualifier.
Are they so afraid you would win the entire thing so decidedly the very thought of you participating is too much for them to the point they need ban you?
i mean, they are so triggered that you were right about vindicta and they were freaking wrong, they are seizuring on the floor grasping madly at straws to punish you which is just them projecting their anger from you being right about him cheating in the first place!
Are you guys trolling? Or are you guys "stupid"(dont know if he is playing his role or not) as avilo? A guy, who insults his oponnents and blame them as "hacker" in live stram, should get his chance and need support? Are you ... serious? He wasn't only angry and mad, he INSULTED A CASTER in a OFFICIAL BLIZZARD TOURNAMENT Qualfier in FRONT OF THOUSANDS VIEWERS? So they should ignore it, and let him play like if nothing happened? I seriously dont know, if you guys are avilo in his "other" Teamliquid accounts or ignorant stupid kids, thinking behaving like him is normal thing.
Someone being toxic and having a poor attitude doesn't give other people the right to be that way. Have you seen some of the stuff that is said to Avilo in the reddit threads? Or anyone they think may agree with any points made by Avilo? Users who brought up Nero's history faced a lot of insults, just because Avilo brought up the initial accusation.
In terms of the insults.... Kaelaris bashed Avilo on the main stream. That is highly unprofessional. And did you see the reddit thread where Avilo replied with that insult? Ironic how so many cry about toxicity but then end up being incredibly toxic and spit some horrific vitriol. Not at ALL debating that Avilo didn't have a poor attitude. just saying that there is no justification to say that because someone is toxic, that you are justified in behaving that way or worse.
I am talking here about AVILO and HIS CHANCE TO PLAY THE QUALIFIER AGAIN. I didnt say others can behave same as avilo. But are they playing for a TOURNAMENT, or are they known? Do you know how much people behave like him in internet? Millions of insult, disrespectful comments in youtube or facebook. I dont care about these comments, also I dont care what people say about avilo in reddit, twitter or anywhere else. If he is trying to play a Official tournament, he should to know how to behave. Its about him, not the others.
On March 30 2017 21:17 ReachTheSky wrote: If blizzard refuses to reverse their ban on Avilo, they are literally saying to the community the following: 1:good manners > good gameplay, even though people don't tune in to watch how nice some acts, viewers tune in to see good game play. Perhaps this should be called the world morals series to see who can be morally correct on a more frequent basis than their opponent. 2:we prefer to conditionally enforce rules, play favorites, turn a blind eye when it comes to the in-crowd when it comes to enforcing policy and like to avoid giving equal opportunities, even to underdogs. 3:we don't value the community, we value what the oldboys club/old guard thinks over all because they(oldboys club) want to keep their status as progamers and are afraid to face avilo in a televised match should he qualify and crush them. 4:we don't value integrity, fair competition, equal opportunity, equal treatment among all our players. Even though the one being pentalize has promoted their championship game the longest out of all the remaining players via publicly access streams.
Reverse the ban.
You keep bringing up the same points over and over again. I tried to ask counter questions but you have neither addressed or answered criticisms. Neither mine nor others. If you arent willing to answer, and thus explain your point of view, why then should others try to understand where you are coming from? You have for instance already lost me, as I no motivation anymore to specifically understand where the oldboys club stuff is coming from. You say it like it is a given. It isnt... at least to me. Unless I have seriously misjudged the posts by others, I'd say that you are in the minority with that opinion.
Edit: OK OK you have answered some. Just not as many as I thought you would, instead you keep posting your points over and over.
On March 30 2017 21:17 ReachTheSky wrote: If blizzard refuses to reverse their ban on Avilo, they are literally saying to the community the following: 1:good manners > good gameplay, even though people don't tune in to watch how nice some acts, viewers tune in to see good game play. Perhaps this should be called the world morals series to see who can be morally correct on a more frequent basis than their opponent. 2:we prefer to conditionally enforce rules, play favorites, turn a blind eye when it comes to the in-crowd when it comes to enforcing policy and like to avoid giving equal opportunities, even to underdogs. 3:we don't value the community, we value what the oldboys club/old guard thinks over all because they(oldboys club) want to keep their status as progamers and are afraid to face avilo in a televised match should he qualify and crush them. 4:we don't value integrity, fair competition, equal opportunity, equal treatment among all our players. Even though the one being pentalize has promoted their championship game the longest out of all the remaining players via publicly access streams.
Reverse the ban.
You keep bringing up the same points over and over again. I tried to ask counter questions but you have neither addressed or answered criticisms. Neither mine nor others. If you arent willing to answer, and thus explain your point of view, why then should others try to understand where you are coming from? You have for instance already lost me, as I no motivation anymore to specifically understand where the oldboys club stuff is coming from. You say it like it is a given. It isnt... at least to me. Unless I have seriously misjudged the posts by others, I'd say that you are in the minority with that opinion.
The reason i keep repeating the same things is because THAT IS MY POINT OF VIEW. You keep asking the same questions, you get the same answers ROFL. Scroll back to all of my posts throughout this thread and you will see all of my explanations, there is always the chance you didn't get to read every single message i've posted. If you still don't get it after that, i'm afraid you have way bigger problems on hand than the issue being discussed my friend.
Man this avilo kid is out of his mind thinking he did everything to the letter. Good thing he's as irrelevant now as he was back when I was dealing with this stuff :>
On March 30 2017 21:22 Sero wrote: "First, we conclude that Vindicta did not use hacks during his most recent WCS Challenger matches.
Second, in the many public ladder matches reviewed by us, Vindicta was either not using hacks, or the reported account was not piloted by Vindicta at that time."
He wasn't hacking, and most likely never hacked. Someone whom he shared his account with hacked. Not him. How is that difficult to understand? Avilo was wrong and lost straight up, then broke tournament rules and got himself disqualified. lol
Sero, please stop talking in this post if you have no idea what the HELL is going on, you are another waste of space that does not do their research before speaking. If you look at the "person" that played the account the time of WCS Challenger qualifier, the hotkeys are EXACTLY the same of nero (the known hacker) that streamed the hacks, and was caught using the hacks. Lots of proof is out there, just reddit it, teamliquid it, even ask dr.google. Second, lets say it wasn't nero playing, the hotkeys would be different (which they werent), but lets say it was someone different...ACCOUNT SHARING isnt allowed...Period the end.
On March 30 2017 21:22 Sero wrote: "First, we conclude that Vindicta did not use hacks during his most recent WCS Challenger matches.
Second, in the many public ladder matches reviewed by us, Vindicta was either not using hacks, or the reported account was not piloted by Vindicta at that time."
He wasn't hacking, and most likely never hacked. Someone whom he shared his account with hacked. Not him. How is that difficult to understand? Avilo was wrong and lost straight up, then broke tournament rules and got himself disqualified. lol
Sero, please stop talking in this post if you have no idea what the HELL is going on, you are another waste of space that does not do their research before speaking. If you look at the "person" that played the account the time of WCS Challenger qualifier, the hotkeys are EXACTLY the same of nero (the known hacker) that streamed the hacks, and was caught using the hacks. Lots of proof is out there, just reddit it, teamliquid it, even ask dr.google. Second, lets say it wasn't nero playing, the hotkeys would be different (which they werent), but lets say it was someone different...ACCOUNT SHARING isnt allowed...Period the end.
On March 30 2017 21:22 Sero wrote: "First, we conclude that Vindicta did not use hacks during his most recent WCS Challenger matches.
Second, in the many public ladder matches reviewed by us, Vindicta was either not using hacks, or the reported account was not piloted by Vindicta at that time."
He wasn't hacking, and most likely never hacked. Someone whom he shared his account with hacked. Not him. How is that difficult to understand? Avilo was wrong and lost straight up, then broke tournament rules and got himself disqualified. lol
Sero, please stop talking in this post if you have no idea what the HELL is going on, you are another waste of space that does not do their research before speaking. If you look at the "person" that played the account the time of WCS Challenger qualifier, the hotkeys are EXACTLY the same of nero (the known hacker) that streamed the hacks, and was caught using the hacks. Lots of proof is out there, just reddit it, teamliquid it, even ask dr.google. Second, lets say it wasn't nero playing, the hotkeys would be different (which they werent), but lets say it was someone different...ACCOUNT SHARING isnt allowed...Period the end.
Nero was a known hacker in BW iirc too.
Iirc that Nero guy even burned down Rome at some point. What a lunatic!
On March 30 2017 21:22 Sero wrote: "First, we conclude that Vindicta did not use hacks during his most recent WCS Challenger matches.
Second, in the many public ladder matches reviewed by us, Vindicta was either not using hacks, or the reported account was not piloted by Vindicta at that time."
He wasn't hacking, and most likely never hacked. Someone whom he shared his account with hacked. Not him. How is that difficult to understand? Avilo was wrong and lost straight up, then broke tournament rules and got himself disqualified. lol
Sero, please stop talking in this post if you have no idea what the HELL is going on, you are another waste of space that does not do their research before speaking. If you look at the "person" that played the account the time of WCS Challenger qualifier, the hotkeys are EXACTLY the same of nero (the known hacker) that streamed the hacks, and was caught using the hacks. Lots of proof is out there, just reddit it, teamliquid it, even ask dr.google. Second, lets say it wasn't nero playing, the hotkeys would be different (which they werent), but lets say it was someone different...ACCOUNT SHARING isnt allowed...Period the end.
Nero was a known hacker in BW iirc too.
Iirc that Nero guy even burned down Rome at some point. What a lunatic!
1) Avilo's claim and evidence of cheating is weak. 2) Avilo has cried wolf too often. (Watch Jason Vs avilo on youtube) 3) Avilo lost. 4) Avilo tried to verbally offend people. 5) Avilo whinged some more. 6) Avilo cried wolf again 7) Avilo was cautioned and punished. 8) The SC2 community laughed.
On March 30 2017 21:22 Sero wrote: "First, we conclude that Vindicta did not use hacks during his most recent WCS Challenger matches.
Second, in the many public ladder matches reviewed by us, Vindicta was either not using hacks, or the reported account was not piloted by Vindicta at that time."
He wasn't hacking, and most likely never hacked. Someone whom he shared his account with hacked. Not him. How is that difficult to understand? Avilo was wrong and lost straight up, then broke tournament rules and got himself disqualified. lol
Sero, please stop talking in this post if you have no idea what the HELL is going on, you are another waste of space that does not do their research before speaking. If you look at the "person" that played the account the time of WCS Challenger qualifier, the hotkeys are EXACTLY the same of nero (the known hacker) that streamed the hacks, and was caught using the hacks. Lots of proof is out there, just reddit it, teamliquid it, even ask dr.google. Second, lets say it wasn't nero playing, the hotkeys would be different (which they werent), but lets say it was someone different...ACCOUNT SHARING isnt allowed...Period the end.
Nero was a known hacker in BW iirc too.
Iirc that Nero guy even burned down Rome at some point. What a lunatic!
If you are going to respond and quote my posts, at least contribute something valid to the discussion at hand or some sort of challenge at the very least.
Mocking me is going to stop me from speaking the truth either. What's next? Incontrol-style bullying back from 4 years ago?
On March 30 2017 21:22 Sero wrote: "First, we conclude that Vindicta did not use hacks during his most recent WCS Challenger matches.
Second, in the many public ladder matches reviewed by us, Vindicta was either not using hacks, or the reported account was not piloted by Vindicta at that time."
He wasn't hacking, and most likely never hacked. Someone whom he shared his account with hacked. Not him. How is that difficult to understand? Avilo was wrong and lost straight up, then broke tournament rules and got himself disqualified. lol
Sero, please stop talking in this post if you have no idea what the HELL is going on, you are another waste of space that does not do their research before speaking. If you look at the "person" that played the account the time of WCS Challenger qualifier, the hotkeys are EXACTLY the same of nero (the known hacker) that streamed the hacks, and was caught using the hacks. Lots of proof is out there, just reddit it, teamliquid it, even ask dr.google. Second, lets say it wasn't nero playing, the hotkeys would be different (which they werent), but lets say it was someone different...ACCOUNT SHARING isnt allowed...Period the end.
Nero was a known hacker in BW iirc too.
Iirc that Nero guy even burned down Rome at some point. What a lunatic!
If you are going to respond and quote my posts, at least contribute something valid to the discussion at hand or some sort of challenge at the very least.
Mocking me is going to stop me from speaking the truth either. What's next? Incontrol-style bullying back from 4 years ago?
Dude, despite your constant repitition now you're accusing a 16-year old kid to be a hacker in BW, you're probably challenged enough, already. This whole drama is ridiculous, there exists a code of conduct, avilo broke it, he got punished for it - move on, nothing to see here.
On March 30 2017 21:17 ReachTheSky wrote: If blizzard refuses to reverse their ban on Avilo, they are literally saying to the community the following: 1:good manners > good gameplay, even though people don't tune in to watch how nice some acts, viewers tune in to see good game play. Perhaps this should be called the world morals series to see who can be morally correct on a more frequent basis than their opponent. 2:we prefer to conditionally enforce rules, play favorites, turn a blind eye when it comes to the in-crowd when it comes to enforcing policy and like to avoid giving equal opportunities, even to underdogs. 3:we don't value the community, we value what the oldboys club/old guard thinks over all because they(oldboys club) want to keep their status as progamers and are afraid to face avilo in a televised match should he qualify and crush them. 4:we don't value integrity, fair competition, equal opportunity, equal treatment among all our players. Even though the one being pentalize has promoted their championship game the longest out of all the remaining players via publicly access streams.
Reverse the ban.
You keep bringing up the same points over and over again. I tried to ask counter questions but you have neither addressed or answered criticisms. Neither mine nor others. If you arent willing to answer, and thus explain your point of view, why then should others try to understand where you are coming from? You have for instance already lost me, as I no motivation anymore to specifically understand where the oldboys club stuff is coming from. You say it like it is a given. It isnt... at least to me. Unless I have seriously misjudged the posts by others, I'd say that you are in the minority with that opinion.
The reason i keep repeating the same things is because THAT IS MY POINT OF VIEW. You keep asking the same questions, you get the same answers ROFL. Scroll back to all of my posts throughout this thread and you will see all of my explanations, there is always the chance you didn't get to read every single message i've posted. If you still don't get it after that, i'm afraid you have way bigger problems on hand than the issue being discussed my friend.
Not sure why I was expecting anything different then an attempt to be yelled down by you.... I take it you havnt considered that you "have to" bring up the same points over and over again, because people find your reasoning unconvincing? For me at least that is the case. I find it unconvincing mainly because of my bit about INTENT on page 3.
On March 30 2017 21:22 Sero wrote: "First, we conclude that Vindicta did not use hacks during his most recent WCS Challenger matches.
Second, in the many public ladder matches reviewed by us, Vindicta was either not using hacks, or the reported account was not piloted by Vindicta at that time."
He wasn't hacking, and most likely never hacked. Someone whom he shared his account with hacked. Not him. How is that difficult to understand? Avilo was wrong and lost straight up, then broke tournament rules and got himself disqualified. lol
Sero, please stop talking in this post if you have no idea what the HELL is going on, you are another waste of space that does not do their research before speaking. If you look at the "person" that played the account the time of WCS Challenger qualifier, the hotkeys are EXACTLY the same of nero (the known hacker) that streamed the hacks, and was caught using the hacks. Lots of proof is out there, just reddit it, teamliquid it, even ask dr.google. Second, lets say it wasn't nero playing, the hotkeys would be different (which they werent), but lets say it was someone different...ACCOUNT SHARING isnt allowed...Period the end.
Nero was a known hacker in BW iirc too.
Iirc that Nero guy even burned down Rome at some point. What a lunatic!
If you are going to respond and quote my posts, at least contribute something valid to the discussion at hand or some sort of challenge at the very least.
Mocking me is going to stop me from speaking the truth either. What's next? Incontrol-style bullying back from 4 years ago?
So to you repeating the same points over and over again is
On March 30 2017 22:03 ReachTheSky wrote: contributing something valid to the discussion at hand
On March 30 2017 21:22 Sero wrote: "First, we conclude that Vindicta did not use hacks during his most recent WCS Challenger matches.
Second, in the many public ladder matches reviewed by us, Vindicta was either not using hacks, or the reported account was not piloted by Vindicta at that time."
He wasn't hacking, and most likely never hacked. Someone whom he shared his account with hacked. Not him. How is that difficult to understand? Avilo was wrong and lost straight up, then broke tournament rules and got himself disqualified. lol
Sero, please stop talking in this post if you have no idea what the HELL is going on, you are another waste of space that does not do their research before speaking. If you look at the "person" that played the account the time of WCS Challenger qualifier, the hotkeys are EXACTLY the same of nero (the known hacker) that streamed the hacks, and was caught using the hacks. Lots of proof is out there, just reddit it, teamliquid it, even ask dr.google. Second, lets say it wasn't nero playing, the hotkeys would be different (which they werent), but lets say it was someone different...ACCOUNT SHARING isnt allowed...Period the end.
Nero was a known hacker in BW iirc too.
Iirc that Nero guy even burned down Rome at some point. What a lunatic!
If you are going to respond and quote my posts, at least contribute something valid to the discussion at hand or some sort of challenge at the very least.
Mocking me is going to stop me from speaking the truth either. What's next? Incontrol-style bullying back from 4 years ago?
Okay you have to be a troll, you just have to be. You can't possibly sit there and say "If you're going to quote me, contribute something valid" with a straight face considering your posts in this thread.
I agree with avilo's punishment because of his antics. He proved once again that no matter the circumstances he is just a whiny ladder hero and he cares more about his 'badboy persona' than making it to WCS Austin. (I hope he uses all the donations he collected to go and that he doesnt back off at the last minute. **We all know you dont need 3500$ to travel from the East Coast to Austin TX)
However, if a garbage tier HOTS caster was dissing me on live stream, I would probably go on full tilt too.
fairplay is cool. respect is a huge part of fairplay. Both parties failed to deliver.
On March 30 2017 19:45 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On March 30 2017 19:36 Elentos wrote:
On March 30 2017 19:35 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: What did Avilo say that he got punished for?
I reckon this had to do with it:
Ok lol. I thought he just talked trash to the hacking cheater which while not smart would be understandable.
He did that too, but I assume the Kaelaris comment didn't help at all.
How does what i post on my own blog, or livestream, or whatever matter for any of this? Answer? It doesn't. Nathanias, pig, kaelaris, list goes on and other players/casters have said worse or similar bs about other players or personalities in the scene and they receive zero punishment because they work for blizzard.
This is why people keep telling you to grow up. This is the real world, your image matters. Maybe all those people have said similar or worse things, but people don't perceive them as an asshole. The moment that changes you will begin to see them being treated differently. Your entire reputation is toxicity. Until you manage to fix that you will continue to see people being treated differently from you for the rest of your life. Is it unfair? Maybe. Deal with it.
There are really only a few possible issues here: (1) Did the guy actually hack? (2) Did Avilo break the rules by his behavior? (3) Is there inconsistency in the application of rules to a degree that is actually unjust?
As to 1, all the info we have says that the guy did not hack for the actual game, but may have in the past. So that's something.
As to 2, it seems quite clear that Avilo was actually in violation of the WCS regulations. I don't really see anyone coherently denying that. Note also that the answer to (1) does not directly impinge on the our answer to (2). There is no need to grant an exception for someone breaking one rule because he may have exposed someone breaking another rule. Such things can be granted in extreme circumstances, when the rule broken is very minor and the rule exposed is very serious, but they should in no way be the norm. Basic standards of sportsmanship are by no means a minor rule in competition.
The only serious, substantive accusation that has been leveled is inconsistency/favoritism in application of rules. Certainly, Avilo is not a popular guy in the progaming and casting community, but the progaming and casting community is not identical to Blizzard's refs. It would be hard to prove favoritism in this instance, and would require serious evidence to this effect.
Some people have made the claim of favoritism based on the "account sharing" provision of the EULA. This, however, does not seem to pan out for several reasons. First, this relates to the (1) rule, so it doesn't actually have any direct impact on the justice of Avilo's sentence. Secondly, Nero seems to have been banned, not just for account sharing, but for account sharing with known hackers, and for logging onto known hacker accounts. In other words, the account sharing is part of a circumstantial case for map-hacking, and it is this suspicious behavior that leads to him being punished. This is a bit wonky, but it does seem (though is there evidence to the contrary?) to be fairly consistent behavior on Blizzard's part; only enforcing the EULA on account-sharing when it is connected to some other offence, such as using this account-sharing to gain an advantage in WCS. There are certainly civil laws that are treated in a similar way, in that they are only enforced in practice in connection to some other offence. This is perhaps a bit wonky, though. Still, if anyone would have a right to complain in this instance, it would be Nero, not avilo.
Otherwise, bad player behavior may not have been enforced that strictly in the past, especially with people like Idra. On the other hand, the scene was much less organized back then, and I don't even think the WCS rules were in place. If anyone can come up with a clear example of equivalent or worse behavior relatively recently within the WCS system that was not punished, then they would have a case. Even then, though, this would probably lead to the conclusion that these rules should be more strictly enforced in the future, not that avilo should be let off.
TLDR: Whether the person is a hacker or not isn't directly relevant to the question of whether avilo should be punished. It's quite hard to make a case that this should be reversed.
On March 30 2017 22:02 AxiomBlurr wrote: Bottomline:
1) Avilo's claim and evidence of cheating is weak. 2) Avilo has cried wolf too often. (Watch Jason Vs avilo on youtube) 3) Avilo lost. 4) Avilo tried to verbally offend people. 5) Avilo whinged some more. 6) Avilo cried wolf again 7) Avilo was cautioned and punished. 8) The SC2 community laughed.
SC2 Lives Matter!!!
I suppose I'll response
1)While the evidence may be weak, it's there. Blizzard claims they found no evidence of Vindicta hacking. There are undetectable hacks nowadays. The same people have been at it over and over and over hacking away and blizzard can't detect it. Avilo at least has some form of evidence.
2)Correct, He does do this when he feels helpless or to shift the blame off himself, however, Your number 2 statement is irrelevant to the discussion and is not directly interconnected in any form to the matters at hand at all.
3)Avilo lost because his opponent, wait for it, was hacking.(incase you aren't aware, hacking gives one player a sizable advantage over the other LOL)
4)Avilo verbally offended people. Who cares? Get some skin if you are bothered by words. It's not like he did anything in any capacity on any official WCS broadcast.
5)Despite english being my worst study, Whinged is not a word.
6)Irrelevant to the matters at hand and shares absolutely zero direct interconnectedness to the discussion or penalty. (please make your points valid)
7)The rest of the pros get free passes all the time when they break the rules, why not Avilo? Afterall, Avilo is the longest oldschool beta player still playing to date and has been promoting blizzards game for 7 years. Surely that has got to earn him something.
8)Only the ones that can't read between the lines laughed. When you actually wake up and realize exactly what is going on, the bias in decision making, the unequal treatment among top players by blizzard/WCS organizers/community figures and understand the impact/influence this type of behavior has on the future growth of the scene, you'll realize it is a really bad thing. You'll begin to realize that whether the WCS team/blizzard organizers/decision makers or whoever are indirectly alienating their community/playerbase by operating this way because it does not inspire people to play this game competitively. Knowing that players are purposely kept out of the inner circle despite skill does not make people want to watch.
This type of INCONSISTENT leadership does not inspire me to play sc2 nor watch it and it sure as hell does not make me want to tell others about sc2/wcs. Do you think maybe it is a possibility the masses that played sc2 through the end of WOL/early HOTS had started to realize the points i make in number 8 and decided to move on knowing you only get an opportunity if they like you? Blizzard/WCS advertises that is solely a competition based on in-game skill to qualify but the truth is, if you aren't in the oldguard/oldboys club or they don't like you, they will do everything to keep you out.(current circumstances, unequal treatment to players with the vast majority of pros breaking rules defined clearly in blizzard's TUA, only enforcing punishment on Avilo for calling a commentator a beta **** on reddit(LOL)
How does this type of leadership grow a scene? It hasn't made me want to contribute one bit since I quit playing for quantic back in 2011. There needs to be a change and it needs to start here.
Enough of the one liner posts guys, at least come up with valid constructive points that make sense in bettering the scene. You are better than this, or so I think. Prove me right.
On March 30 2017 21:22 Sero wrote: "First, we conclude that Vindicta did not use hacks during his most recent WCS Challenger matches.
Second, in the many public ladder matches reviewed by us, Vindicta was either not using hacks, or the reported account was not piloted by Vindicta at that time."
He wasn't hacking, and most likely never hacked. Someone whom he shared his account with hacked. Not him. How is that difficult to understand? Avilo was wrong and lost straight up, then broke tournament rules and got himself disqualified. lol
Sero, please stop talking in this post if you have no idea what the HELL is going on, you are another waste of space that does not do their research before speaking. If you look at the "person" that played the account the time of WCS Challenger qualifier, the hotkeys are EXACTLY the same of nero (the known hacker) that streamed the hacks, and was caught using the hacks. Lots of proof is out there, just reddit it, teamliquid it, even ask dr.google. Second, lets say it wasn't nero playing, the hotkeys would be different (which they werent), but lets say it was someone different...ACCOUNT SHARING isnt allowed...Period the end.
Nero was a known hacker in BW iirc too.
Iirc that Nero guy even burned down Rome at some point. What a lunatic!
If you are going to respond and quote my posts, at least contribute something valid to the discussion at hand or some sort of challenge at the very least.
Mocking me is going to stop me from speaking the truth either. What's next? Incontrol-style bullying back from 4 years ago?
So to you repeating the same points over and over again is
On March 30 2017 22:03 ReachTheSky wrote: contributing something valid to the discussion at hand
cool story.
Some people get upset when they challenge someone else's stance on an issue and when they don't get the answer they want to here. They ask the same questions, they get the same answers. It is a completely logical thing to expect, if you are sane that is. 2 +2 doesn't magically become 5 does it? Repeating my stance when asked questions does not equate to a lack of contribution either. Sorry I didn't change my opinion to suit yours. Thanks for the input though!
On March 30 2017 23:10 Weird wrote: Avilo acts like dbag little kid.
Avilo gets more viewers/attention.
Avilo wins.
Good Job TL/community.
Idra acted the exact same way and everyone loved it. At least Avilo likes his fans and shows appreciation/interacts with them. It's a good contribution to the community and keeps people around playing the game/watching competitive starcraft. This sounds like a positive thing if you ask me.
Afterall, Avilo is the longest oldschool beta player still playing to date and has been promoting blizzards game for 7 years. Surely that has got to earn him something.
Yes, ReachTheSky, you promote a product by:
1) Claiming it is crap. 2) Claiming the developers favour one race, or the other, over yours. 3) Claiming everybody else is a hacker, even those that you beat. 4) Claiming the developers are clueless. 5) Bad mouthing casters and administrations.
Yes, all those are in 'Product Promotion 101'. Avilo, really is Blizzard sales rep of the year.
I watched Avilo's stream during this incident, he was beyond outrageous and the circumstances do not excuse him. I then watched Ruff's stream against the same guy. The difference in the level of professionalism was huge.
Good luck to Ruff, good riddance to Vindicta, and Avilo. I am sorry if that offends you, but your fanatical support for Avilo has blinded you to the facts.
On March 30 2017 23:10 Weird wrote: Avilo acts like dbag little kid.
Avilo gets more viewers/attention.
Avilo wins.
Good Job TL/community.
basically this. avilo's numbers never go as high as when he has some drama going on. And honestly, avilo himself probably never expected to get out of this qualifier. Whenever he plays someone with a name you recognize he loses lol.
On March 30 2017 19:45 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
On March 30 2017 19:36 Elentos wrote:
On March 30 2017 19:35 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: What did Avilo say that he got punished for?
I reckon this had to do with it:
Ok lol. I thought he just talked trash to the hacking cheater which while not smart would be understandable.
He did that too, but I assume the Kaelaris comment didn't help at all.
How does what i post on my own blog, or livestream, or whatever matter for any of this? Answer? It doesn't. Nathanias, pig, kaelaris, list goes on and other players/casters have said worse or similar bs about other players or personalities in the scene and they receive zero punishment because they work for blizzard.
Kaelaris/pig trying to take a verbal shit on my name on a live cast in front of thousands of people, while also at the same time pretending hacking does not exist...this is allowed. But i run into a hacker, a known hacker, show evidence, and get punished for exposing the hacker...because of a post i make on reddit outside of the sphere of the tourney? Yeah.
This system is basically bullshit. Nothing was done about the same hacker i played over a year ago, they said the same exact canned response " we'll look into it." I got rightfully angry nothing was done this time and i got robbed of my qualifier spjot.
Then they find another excuse to ban me and not allow me to get my chance to qualify after they backtrack and realize that the guy does indeed maphack after they paraded him around on their live stream in front of thousands of viewers.
I mean...it's just ego at this point. They didn't want to admit i was right and they were wrong. So they continue to try and blacklist me for whatever bullshit reasons they can find.
I stick by what i said, and i deserve another shot at the first qualifier just like the other people that got robbed that had to play against Nero even after they were shown tons of evidence before and after my match that he was a KNOWN maphacker.
They of course will not punish their casters for being biased or trying to talk shit about me live on casts because they condone that type of thing. It's clear they have wanted me out of the scene since they permabanned me from the blizzard forums for posting about 3 rax reaper a few months ago.
Guess what, i'm not going anywhere. Maybe instead of continually taking a shit on the players still left in the SC2 scene, they should consider trying to treat the players left fairly and banning cheaters from their tourneys and LISTENING to the players.
That's kind of the crux of all of this. Blizzard does not listen to it's player base anymore.
Your behaviour is terrible. Accept it, try to change it.
I don't understand how Avilo getting upset or Avilo accusing someone of being a hacker is news any more. It was funny the 1st/2nd/3rd time, now it's just embarrassing.
On March 30 2017 23:10 Weird wrote: Avilo acts like dbag little kid.
Avilo gets more viewers/attention.
Avilo wins.
Good Job TL/community.
Idra acted the exact same way and everyone loved it. At least Avilo likes his fans and shows appreciation/interacts with them. It's a good contribution to the community and keeps people around playing the game/watching competitive starcraft. This sounds like a positive thing if you ask me.
I'm out of this thread after this post.
I'm pretty sure not everyone loved the way that Idra acted.
Why do you turn a blind eye to his immature/unacceptable behavior? Because he "likes his fans and shows appreciation"? Don't you see how people like you help enable him in the first place to act that way?
This is just a burning neon sign to all of the streamers out there: Be a terrible human being, gain sycophantic followers who will defend you to the end. Plus get more viewers and more attention.
If you spent as much time in the gym as you did posting in this topic I think you would be happier.
Afterall, Avilo is the longest oldschool beta player still playing to date and has been promoting blizzards game for 7 years. Surely that has got to earn him something.
Yes, ReachTheSky, you promote a product by:
1) Claiming it is crap. 2) Claiming the developers favour one race, or the other, over yours. 3) Claiming everybody else is a hacker, even those that you beat. 4) Claiming the developers are clueless. 5) Bad mouthing casters and administrations.
Yes, all those are in 'Product Promotion 101'. Avilo, really is Blizzard sales rep of the year.
I watched Avilo's stream during this incident, he was beyond outrageous and the circumstances do not excuse him. I then watched Ruff's stream against the same guy. The difference in the level of professionalism was huge.
Good luck to Ruff, good riddance to Vindicta, and Avilo. I am sorry if that offends you, but your fanatical support for Avilo has blinded you to the facts.
1)I'm not going to allow you to bait me into turning this discussion into game bashing, You said it not me. (You might want to avoid saying stuff like like that, its frowned upon around here)
2)Developers do focus heavily on one race at a time for extended periods of time.
3)Avilo gets an extremely high amount of stream sniper trolls that always have their units at the right place at the right time with out any intel even though avilo switches his strategy & execution up consistently. You'd know this if you'd watched his stream recently at least. I don't blame if you if you don't but at least be valid here if you are gonna bring stuff like that up. I don't blame the guy for calling it as he sees it. He doesn't call everyone hackers. Also, it sounds like you've never beat a hacker not it has anything to do with the discussion at hand.
4)Developers took the longest time to gain an actual understanding of the balance of the game. For awhile they just waited till players got tired of something to make a change or just took certain players' word for balance until they gain a full understanding. Who wouldn't complain about it?
5)It is very easy to badmouth casters/administrations. Every single player does it at some point or another. Especially if there is not a thorough system in place. If administrations had acted swiftly/unbias in the past perhaps Avilo and several other players/viewers might have a little more faith. In a way, they've created a beast. Who wouldn't want to bad mouth casters/administrators after these experiences.
Thanks for coming up with unreasonable/irrelevant points in an attempt to discredit Avilo's contributions to the community. After all, he offers more than you do.
Nothing offends me, I have a thick layer of skin, bud. In terms of being a fan of Avilo, I already said on page 1 or 2 that I can't stand him. That doesn't mean I can't side with him on an issue if I believe there to be unjust bias or bad decision making on an administrative level. Nothing everything is as black and white as you think.
On March 30 2017 23:10 Weird wrote: Avilo acts like dbag little kid.
Avilo gets more viewers/attention.
Avilo wins.
Good Job TL/community.
Idra acted the exact same way and everyone loved it. At least Avilo likes his fans and shows appreciation/interacts with them. It's a good contribution to the community and keeps people around playing the game/watching competitive starcraft. This sounds like a positive thing if you ask me.
I'm out of this thread after this post.
I'm pretty sure not everyone loved the way that Idra acted.
Why do you turn a blind eye to his immature/unacceptable behavior? Because he "likes his fans and shows appreciation"? Don't you see how people like you help enable him in the first place to act that way?
This is just a burning neon sign to all of the streamers out there: Be a terrible human being, gain sycophantic followers who will defend you to the end. Plus get more viewers and more attention.
If you spent as much time in the gym as you did posting in this topic I think you would be happier.
Later all.
I goto the gym 4 times a week ROFL. Also, character assassination is not very becoming these days. In fact, I don't think it ever has been. Might want to put that card back and choose a new one.
in any competition screaming at the officials and basically everybody under the sun over your opinion that the officials missed a penalty, to the point where you get a penalty for abusing the officials and everybody else under the sun is always going to be you're in the wrong. even if the officials did miss the other side committing a penalty.
being maybe wronged isn't a license to go superfly TNT dynamite guns of the navarone on everyone
On March 31 2017 00:06 DeepElemBlues wrote: in any competition screaming at the officials and basically everybody under the sun over your opinion that the officials missed a penalty, to the point where you get a penalty for abusing the officials and everybody else under the sun is always going to be you're in the wrong. even if the officials did miss the other side committing a penalty.
being maybe wronged isn't a license to go superfly TNT dynamite guns of the navarone on everyone
I can't agree more. However, it feels a bit more heavy handed when the legitimate player gets the ban while the hacker who compromises the integrity of fair competition gets a ban and still gets to roam on b.net hacking away. I feel like starting with a game loss in his next bo3 is the equivalent to a penalty rather than ejected from the qualifier completely.
Afterall, Avilo is the longest oldschool beta player still playing to date and has been promoting blizzards game for 7 years. Surely that has got to earn him something.
Yes, ReachTheSky, you promote a product by:
1) Claiming it is crap. 2) Claiming the developers favour one race, or the other, over yours. 3) Claiming everybody else is a hacker, even those that you beat. 4) Claiming the developers are clueless. 5) Bad mouthing casters and administrations.
Yes, all those are in 'Product Promotion 101'. Avilo, really is Blizzard sales rep of the year.
I watched Avilo's stream during this incident, he was beyond outrageous and the circumstances do not excuse him. I then watched Ruff's stream against the same guy. The difference in the level of professionalism was huge.
Good luck to Ruff, good riddance to Vindicta, and Avilo. I am sorry if that offends you, but your fanatical support for Avilo has blinded you to the facts.
1)I'm not going to allow you to bait me into turning this discussion into game bashing, You said it not me. (You might want to avoid saying stuff like like that, its frowned upon around here)
2)Developers do focus heavily on one race at a time for extended periods of time.
3)Avilo gets an extremely high amount of stream sniper trolls that always have their units at the right place at the right time with out any intel even though avilo switches his strategy & execution up consistently. You'd know this if you'd watched his stream recently at least. I don't blame if you if you don't but at least be valid here if you are gonna bring stuff like that up. I don't blame the guy for calling it as he sees it. He doesn't call everyone hackers. Also, it sounds like you've never beat a hacker not it has anything to do with the discussion at hand.
4)Developers took the longest time to gain an actual understanding of the balance of the game. For awhile they just waited till players got tired of something to make a change or just took certain players' word for balance until they gain a full understanding. Who wouldn't complain about it?
5)It is very easy to badmouth casters/administrations. Every single player does it at some point or another. Especially if there is not a thorough system in place. If administrations had acted swiftly/unbias in the past perhaps Avilo and several other players/viewers might have a little more faith. In a way, they've created a beast. Who wouldn't want to bad mouth casters/administrators after these experiences.
Thanks for coming up with unreasonable/irrelevant points in an attempt to discredit Avilo's contributions to the community. After all, he offers more than you do.
Nothing offends me, I have a thick layer of skin, bud. In terms of being a fan of Avilo, I already said on page 1 or 2 that I can't stand him. That doesn't mean I can't side with him on an issue if I believe there to be unjust bias or bad decision making on an administrative level. Nothing everything is as black and white as you think.
I think there is some comprehension difficulty on your part. I did not say the game is crap, I pointed out that that is what Avilo often claims.
You claimed he promotes the game. Those points above, are what he spews on his channel, and in his 'private' (but public) channels. That is game, and character, assassination not promotion. Not all publicity is good publicity.
These rules apply in many sports, if a football player gets fouled, it does not empower them to berate referees, linesmen, officials and other players. They get banned for it, regardless of whether they were fouled or not.
Job well done, Blizzard. Avilo can stick to his toxic channel and not pollute the tournaments.
Can someone please explain to me why Nero, a player that's trying to qualify for WCS and make a name for himself professionally, would share accounts with hackers?
Why would he play on this specific account? Are you going to sit there and tell me that even though hackers have been using this account, this never led to any sort of punishment or result in this account being put on a "watchlist"? And would he not know about it by receiving a message from blizzard that his account has been involved in suspicious activity??
There's 3 options here:
1. Nero hacks and shares this account with other hackers. 2. Nero doesn't hack but knowingly shares his account with hackers, while being aware of this fact. 3. Nero doesn't hack but knowingly shares his account with other players, while being oblivious of the fact that they hack.
Professional players don't want to be associated with malpractices as this will get them banned. Keeping this in mind it's already questionable that he would share accounts in the first place since it's against the terms of agreement, and could result in him getting banned. Second of all, it seems to me that you only share accounts with people that you are quite familiar with/people that you trust. Else it seems like very risky behavior that could result in you losing your own account. Since he's trying to make a name for himself, I believe we can discredit option 2.
Now I am sure that this specific account Nero's been playing on has been reported to blizzard for hacking in the past. What happens in such a case? Is your account investigated, put on a sort of watchlist? Is the user made aware that his account is being investigated?? This seems very reasonable to me since someone else might be using your account without you knowing and this could give you a chance to rectify this situation. This leads me to concluding that Nero was aware his account was being used by people that are hacking but this is incompatible with him admitting he wants to make a name for himself professionally.
This is why I believe Nero does hack despite blizzard's official investigation stating he doesn't. And considering this information, this leads me to believe that he should never have been allowed to participate in the first place.
Please someone reply and clarify some issues for me (How does blizzard handle accounts being reported for hacking, is the user of the account that's being investigated made aware of this fact, etc)!
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
That wasn't the issue. He didn't follow Pharside's instructions.
I shouldn't play with the troll but what the hell?
On March 30 2017 22:50 ReachTheSky wrote: I suppose I'll response
1)While the evidence may be weak, it's there. Blizzard claims they found no evidence of Vindicta hacking. There are undetectable hacks nowadays. The same people have been at it over and over and over hacking away and blizzard can't detect it. Avilo at least has some form of evidence.
No he doesn't, the replays clearly show he didn't hack at all, which was confirmed by the tournament organizers, all he has are his assumptions.
2)Correct, He does do this when he feels helpless or to shift the blame off himself, however, Your number 2 statement is irrelevant to the discussion and is not directly interconnected in any form to the matters at hand at all.
It has everything to do with it, there's such a thing as credibility and when you claim EVERYONE who beats you maphacks you have none, thus noone is going to listen to you, especially when you have no evidence
3)Avilo lost because his opponent, wait for it, was hacking.(incase you aren't aware, hacking gives one player a sizable advantage over the other LOL)
No he didn't, it's been investigated and proven as false by the organizers. You can say he was hacking a million times but it's not going to be any more true the millionth time you say it than it was the first time you did.
4)Avilo verbally offended people. Who cares? Get some skin if you are bothered by words. It's not like he did anything in any capacity on any official WCS broadcast.
The WCS organizers care, that's why they have clear rules on behavior, rules that avilo clearly broke, whether he was on his own stream or an official broadcast is irrelevant, he was still active in a WCS tournament at the time he broke the rules and thus he was bound by the WCS code of conduct, the same code of conduct he violated.
5)Despite english being my worst study, Whinged is not a word.
whinge verb past tense: whinged; past participle: whinged complain persistently and in a peevish or irritating way.
6)Irrelevant to the matters at hand and shares absolutely zero direct interconnectedness to the discussion or penalty. (please make your points valid)
Covered in point 2. It has everything to do with it, as well as his claims were investigated and found to be false.
7)The rest of the pros get free passes all the time when they break the rules, why not Avilo? Afterall, Avilo is the longest oldschool beta player still playing to date and has been promoting blizzards game for 7 years. Surely that has got to earn him something.
Marinelord, Major and DnS say you're wrong, plus the fact that you don't "promote" a game by saying what is wrong with it. He hasn't earnt anything other than what he's getting, scorn, laughter and general apathy.
8)Only the ones that can't read between the lines laughed. When you actually wake up and realize exactly what is going on, the bias in decision making, the unequal treatment among top players by blizzard/WCS organizers/community figures and understand the impact/influence this type of behavior has on the future growth of the scene, you'll realize it is a really bad thing. You'll begin to realize that whether the WCS team/blizzard organizers/decision makers or whoever are indirectly alienating their community/playerbase by operating this way because it does not inspire people to play this game competitively. Knowing that players are purposely kept out of the inner circle despite skill does not make people want to watch.
So laughable it doesn't even warrant a response.
Would you care to make any other wrong arguments or can you take your little trolling account and go away now?
On March 31 2017 00:13 B-royal wrote: Can someone please explain to me why Nero, a player that's trying to qualify for WCS and make a name for himself professionally, would share accounts with hackers?
Why would he play on this specific account? Are you going to sit there and tell me that even though hackers have been using this account, this never led to any sort of punishment or result in this account being put on a "watchlist"? And would he not know about it by receiving a message from blizzard that his account has been involved in suspicious activity??
There's 3 options here:
1. Nero hacks and shares this account with other hackers. 2. Nero doesn't hack but knowingly shares his account with hackers, while being aware of this fact. 3. Nero doesn't hack but knowingly shares his account with other players, while being oblivious of the fact that they hack.
Professional players don't want to be associated with malpractices as this will get them banned. Keeping this in mind it's already questionable that he would share accounts in the first place since it's against the terms of agreement, and could result in him getting banned. Second of all, it seems to me that you only share accounts with people that you are quite familiar with/people that you trust. Else it seems like very risky behavior that could result in you losing your own account. Since he's trying to make a name for himself, I believe we can discredit option 2.
Now I am sure that this specific account Nero's been playing on has been reported to blizzard for hacking in the past. What happens in such a case? Is your account investigated, put on a sort of watchlist? Is the user made aware that his account is being investigated?? This seems very reasonable to me since someone else might be using your account without you knowing and this could give you a chance to rectify this situation. This leads me to concluding that Nero was aware his account was being used by people that are hacking but this is incompatible with him admitting he wants to make a name for himself professionally.
This is why I believe Nero does hack despite blizzard's official investigation stating he doesn't. And considering this information, this leads me to believe that he should never have been allowed to participate in the first place.
Please someone reply and clarify some issues for me (How does blizzard handle accounts being reported for hacking, is the user of the account that's being investigated made aware of this fact, etc)!
You are forgetting option D: Nero hacks, and uses other IPs(IP mask through a VPN tunnel?) to disguise his true IP when he is in the act to then make it seem like it isn't him on the account. boom never gets caught hacking on an IP local to him(which makes it look like its not him because its masked) and can always shift the blame elsewhere without getting his account permabanned from b.net. Is it far fetched, who knows, but it is completely possible.
I agree that Avilo couldve handled this situation better, but he was justifiably upset about the same guy who cost him a spot a year ago was being allowed to play again. The intent of Avilo wasnt to cause harm to the event, it was him being upset that he had to play vs this guy. If the PC Police wants to punish Avilo for his response, then here is Kaelaris last night being racist on stream, about how people in Korea eat dogs: If the PC police goes after players, then shouldnt it go after official ESL casters too?
1. Avilo threw a bunch of accusations at his opponent that were partially correct, and partially incorrect. He does this to just about every single one of his opponents, but in this case he did at least have some justification based on Nero's history, hence the partially correct. As it turns out, Nero was breaking the rules (a repeat offender) and therefore Blizzard punished him.
2. Avilo was a total prick towards the WCS officials. He acts this way towards just about everyone, but it doesn't change the fact that his behavior was unprofessional in the extreme. Avilo was breaking the rules in doing so (a repeat offender) and therefore Blizzard punished him.
And that's it. Pretty cut-and-dried. Both players broke the rules, both players got punished. Would be great if the conspiracy theorists and tinfoil hat wearers and persecution-victimization fetishists could leave it at that.
On March 31 2017 01:04 billynasty wrote: I agree that Avilo couldve handled this situation better, but he was justifiably upset about the same guy who cost him a spot a year ago was being allowed to play again. The intent of Avilo wasnt to cause harm to the event, it was him being upset that he had to play vs this guy. If the PC Police wants to punish Avilo for his response, then here is Kaelaris last night being racist on stream, about how people in Korea eat dogs: https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingObservantCoffeeFailFish If the PC police goes after players, then shouldnt it go after official ESL casters too?
Bro, this is extremely far fetched. There wasn't an ounce of negative connotation in the video provided.
I agree that Avilo couldve handled this situation better, but he was justifiably upset about the same guy who cost him a spot a year ago was being allowed to play again. The intent of Avilo wasnt to cause harm to the event, it was him being upset that he had to play vs this guy. If the PC Police wants to punish Avilo for his response, then here is Kaelaris last night being racist on stream, about how people in Korea eat dogs: https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingObservantCoffeeFailFish If the PC police goes after players, then shouldnt it go after official ESL casters too?
There is absolutely no shred of any racism whatsoever in that video. Are you sure you have the right link?
He was talking about Yorkshire pudding. He said there were no actual dogs in the food, unlike in Korea. It's a fact that some Koreans consume dog meat. Kaelaris made no criticism, no slur, not even a joke about this. No crime here. (Even if he had made some joking stereotypical comment about eating dogs it wouldn't have been a crime, any more than making some joking stereotypical comment about Americans being fat would be a crime)
Compare to avilo's direct and repeated insults/slurs/curses addressed at a specifically named WCS official. Actually, don't compare. There's no comparison that can be made between the two issues.
On March 30 2017 14:22 avilo wrote: So i get punished for exposing the hacker and not thanked or given a second chance to qualify from the one i got robbed?
Blizzard logic at it's finest backwards. I hope the community does not put up for this bullshit, no matter if someone personally doesn't like me or not, i've never cheated in this game, and i just literally saved 3-4 other people that had their matches ruined by this hacker as well.
I deserve another chance to qualify as well. I had a right to be upset that they made me play vs him even before the match i presented evidence showing who he was, and they refused to DQ him. On top of that, WCS official casters live on stream gave me shit, as usual with their condescending tones (except tod) and even went so far as to lie and say hacks don't exist on SC2.
This is all around bullshit but i don't really expect much these days. I'm really hoping the SC2 community will stand up for me here, and the other players that are going to get another chance to qualify if they have any honor at all will stand up for me too for my chance to play that was robbed from me. Considering me even bringing all of this issue up in the first place is what is going to allow them to get re-games.
This is as usual another biased attempt against me from Blizzard. Just like when they permabanned me from the bnet forums for giving CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK about 3 rax reapers.
This is ridiculous.
I do not want to argue about whether the players you face cheated or not. But I do want to say this:
You have shitted on this community for years now. Everyone you beat is a "retard" and "so bad". Everyone that beats you is a "retard" and "so bad" and likely "map hacking and/or stream cheating". Even your own viewers are just a bunch of "goldies who don't shit about this game". You have talked shit about Blizzard for years calling them "dumasses" and much worse.
Yet without us, without Blizzard, you wouldn't have what you have now. Blizzard, and more specifically the Starcraft community has provided the platform for you to become renown gamer. We have supported your stream. Blizzard has made the best RTS game ever and although it isn't perfect, it is still very fun to play. And yet still you have respect for no one but yourself.
So I ask you: Why the FUCK should we come to help you. Why should we come to your side and you treat us like shit? It is time for you to wake up David. You are almost 30! Surely by now you should be mature enough to know that you must give respect in order to get it.
On March 31 2017 01:04 billynasty wrote: I agree that Avilo couldve handled this situation better, but he was justifiably upset about the same guy who cost him a spot a year ago was being allowed to play again. The intent of Avilo wasnt to cause harm to the event, it was him being upset that he had to play vs this guy. If the PC Police wants to punish Avilo for his response, then here is Kaelaris last night being racist on stream, about how people in Korea eat dogs: https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingObservantCoffeeFailFish If the PC police goes after players, then shouldnt it go after official ESL casters too?
You call out PC police, but then say someone is racist for commenting that they eat dog meat in Korea? You realise they litterally do eat dog meat in Korea right?
Avilo is an incredibly incendiary poor sport. If he can't learn to control what he does and keep it within the rules governing the game he plays then he deserves whatever ruling the governing body decides to give him.
You call out PC police, but then say someone is racist for commenting that they eat dog meat in Korea? You realise they litterally do eat dog meat in Korea right?
I don't think he realizes that it wasn't an insult to say dogs are eaten in Korea (as well as Vietnam, China, and parts of Africa). It's just a fact, and it wasn't stated in an insulting way.
Guys I read through this entire thread and I still don't understand what exactly Avilo did to get banned. I dislike the guy, but what did he actually DO?
On March 30 2017 14:22 avilo wrote: So i get punished for exposing the hacker and not thanked or given a second chance to qualify from the one i got robbed?
Blizzard logic at it's finest backwards. I hope the community does not put up for this bullshit, no matter if someone personally doesn't like me or not, i've never cheated in this game, and i just literally saved 3-4 other people that had their matches ruined by this hacker as well.
I deserve another chance to qualify as well. I had a right to be upset that they made me play vs him even before the match i presented evidence showing who he was, and they refused to DQ him. On top of that, WCS official casters live on stream gave me shit, as usual with their condescending tones (except tod) and even went so far as to lie and say hacks don't exist on SC2.
This is all around bullshit but i don't really expect much these days. I'm really hoping the SC2 community will stand up for me here, and the other players that are going to get another chance to qualify if they have any honor at all will stand up for me too for my chance to play that was robbed from me. Considering me even bringing all of this issue up in the first place is what is going to allow them to get re-games.
This is as usual another biased attempt against me from Blizzard. Just like when they permabanned me from the bnet forums for giving CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK about 3 rax reapers.
This is ridiculous.
No, dude. You don't. Welcome to the real world. I've acted like you have before in situations where I was far more justified and fucked over. GUess what happened after I bitched and complained? I got fucked more because they were sick of me throwing a fucking hissy fit when shit didn't go my way. I brought attention to important issues but did so in a demeanor that was disrespectful both to the company and to my co workers who had to put up with my fucking antics. I've done it to friends too, and even though I have good points, it's irrelevant when I act like a child.
Just because you exposed someone doesn't mean you're reprieved of all wrong doing. You said and did stupid shit, don't pretend that's not the case.Not only that, but you're literally known for shitting on Blizzard for any change you don't like. And you think they should put up with this bullshit? Think again dude. You should be glad they're not perma banning your ass for acting the way you did.
On March 31 2017 01:52 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Guys I read through this entire thread and I still don't understand what exactly Avilo did to get banned. I dislike the guy, but what did he actually DO?
Executive summary:
- he was matched against someone who is an alleged hacker in the past - he dragged his feet, trying to get his opponent DQ'd - he went on to rage at officials for trying to get him to start the game - he played game one, and found "irrefutable proof of map hacks" (which consisted of a move command to a point near one of his siege tanks) - he then cussed out a bunch of people who were trying to get him to play game 2 - WCS reviewed that evening (right after match) and said they saw no evidence of hacking - after losing, he posted some veiled 'threat' against the casters and organizers - the person playing him, went on to qualify for WCS.
WCS investigated, found no evidence of hacking in the tournament, but did find evidence of account sharing with a known hacker IP address, and therefore is DQ'd (due to account sharing being against EULA).
They then went on to say that Avilo was also DQ'd from the tournament (he would theoretically have played against Ruff and cuddle, the two other players that victus beat on his way to qualify) - so he cannot participate in that.
avilo can, however, participate in the open bracket, should he wish. victus cannot.
1)While the evidence may be weak, it's there. Blizzard claims they found no evidence of Vindicta hacking. There are undetectable hacks nowadays. The same people have been at it over and over and over hacking away and blizzard can't detect it. Avilo at least has some form of evidence.
How do you know there are undetectable hacks now? Have you actually seen someone using them (and by that I mean watched someone implementing the hack on their computer; not just played against someone allegedly using a hack)? Do you know how to obtain them? Not trolling; genuinely curious.
Feels like the case against him should be rescrutinized. Because either we've been wrongfully condemning him this entire time because despite hotkey analysis for his MC game it was actually someone else (which is incredible), or Blizzard got something wrong here.
There is no middle ground with the way they've phrased it. A known cheater was on his account according to them. So clearly we totally fucked up a year ago when we called him a cheater using hotkey analysis. Wouldn't that undermine the entirety of the anticheat efforts we've put in over the past 7 years?
1)While the evidence may be weak, it's there. Blizzard claims they found no evidence of Vindicta hacking. There are undetectable hacks nowadays. The same people have been at it over and over and over hacking away and blizzard can't detect it. Avilo at least has some form of evidence.
How do you know there are undetectable hacks now? Have you actually seen someone using them (and by that I mean watched someone implementing the hack on their computer; not just played against someone allegedly using a hack)? Do you know how to obtain them? Not trolling; genuinely curious.
There have been undetectable maphacks since 2012. I do not link or support the use of hacks by any means. All i will tell you is that the internet is someones best friend when they really want something.
On March 31 2017 01:04 billynasty wrote: I agree that Avilo couldve handled this situation better, but he was justifiably upset about the same guy who cost him a spot a year ago was being allowed to play again. The intent of Avilo wasnt to cause harm to the event, it was him being upset that he had to play vs this guy. If the PC Police wants to punish Avilo for his response, then here is Kaelaris last night being racist on stream, about how people in Korea eat dogs: https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingObservantCoffeeFailFish If the PC police goes after players, then shouldnt it go after official ESL casters too?
You call out PC police, but then say someone is racist for commenting that they eat dog meat in Korea? You realise they litterally do eat dog meat in Korea right?
That's not the breed they eat so it really wasn't factually correct. Besides, it is a situation that tends to cause friction: a minority of people in a group do a thing that a larger number of people within the group disapprove of. Saying the group as a whole does the thing is then a bit of a faux pas. He even says it in a defensive tone which makes it clear that he disapproves of it, which then reflects poorly on Korea. If you guys aren't picking up on any of these kinds of things, and think that as long as one person in Korea still eats dog then this remark should never be considered problematic because it's a fact, then you should really sit back and try to start making these observations. Anyway, it was just a joke.
billynasty has the wrong idea trying to make this into a political issue. There's a limit to how much people are willing to be treated like shit. Avilo crosses that line. There's nothing more to it. Again there's a real lack of nuance trying to equate Avilo's verbal abuse toward admins and Blizzard employees to Kaeleris's joke by saying they're both things that intolerant people oppose.
avilo is a poor losser. Always he makes excuses for everyone who fucking outplays him... i fucking destroyed 2-0 mech vs mech avilo in heart of the swarm, still I was named as stream cheater... why? because your style is too easy to outplay in early and mid game by high level players? (I was grand master in wings of liberty and heart of the swarm).
Like if you are not stream cheater, you are a hacker or you are extremally lucky or I don't know , bad build whatever.
These are just arguments from someone so narcicist and egocentrical who can't see anybody more than himself to admit he is worse in certain situations than others.
Worst part of this is that he does insult and call everyone stream cheater or hacker for making a circle for their "fans" how follow all this circle avilo does just to get more money from their ignorant people on the stream... Stop donate money and applauding the circle avilo just does to get more "viewership by troll circle". Same garbage did Idra player... People waste time, money and life in such idiocy in those characters called as "Avilo".
1)While the evidence may be weak, it's there. Blizzard claims they found no evidence of Vindicta hacking. There are undetectable hacks nowadays. The same people have been at it over and over and over hacking away and blizzard can't detect it. Avilo at least has some form of evidence.
How do you know there are undetectable hacks now? Have you actually seen someone using them (and by that I mean watched someone implementing the hack on their computer; not just played against someone allegedly using a hack)? Do you know how to obtain them? Not trolling; genuinely curious.
There have been undetectable maphacks since 2012. I do not link or support the use of hacks by any means. All i will tell you is that the internet is someones best friend when they really want something.
When I look online (and, to be fair, I (i) have no idea where to look as I don't know or care to know anything about game hacking; and (ii) only briefly looked after reading your response), everything I see is prior to the LOTV update that disabled most hacking.
I understand not wanting to promote hacking, but it's hard to trust unsubstantiated claims like "There have been undetectable maphacks since 2012." There have been pages and pages of discussion on this issue and, despite this exact question being raised repeatedly, not once have I seen someone provide actual evidence of the current existence of a working hack (again, I'm referring to evidence of the actual hack file itself, not just suspicious in-game footage).
EDIT: After looking a little deeper, I do see some discussion about current hacks on some message boards, but, again, no actual proof a working hack exists. It's mostly just hearsay about a couple of supposedly working private hacks that no one seems to be able to obtain. I'm not saying it's impossible; I'm only saying I'd like to see evidence.
Before you guys talk shit, watch the replays.. I watched them, I've watched a ton of starcraft and those games were fishy. Game 1 2 and 3. Game 1 ToD was like "he hasn't checked Avilo for a 4th, he could get a snipe here." He checks the fourth when CC lands, and starts planetary. He sends one empty dropship for the "scout", just seemed super fishy. He only lost game one because he got super frustrated when he tried to kill fourth, got stopped and he suicides into Avilo forces.
I watched game 2 and 3 both were multiple instances of being fishy
I'm not an Avilo fanboy either, and I do think this attitude/character is annoying and childish, but in this instance the guy really does look like a hacker.
Should be a wake up for Avilo to change the way he is, nobody takes him serious even when it really is a serious instance.
On March 31 2017 01:04 billynasty wrote: I agree that Avilo couldve handled this situation better, but he was justifiably upset about the same guy who cost him a spot a year ago was being allowed to play again. The intent of Avilo wasnt to cause harm to the event, it was him being upset that he had to play vs this guy. If the PC Police wants to punish Avilo for his response, then here is Kaelaris last night being racist on stream, about how people in Korea eat dogs: https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingObservantCoffeeFailFish If the PC police goes after players, then shouldnt it go after official ESL casters too?
You call out PC police, but then say someone is racist for commenting that they eat dog meat in Korea? You realise they litterally do eat dog meat in Korea right?
That's not the breed they eat so it really wasn't factually correct. Besides, it is a situation that tends to cause friction: a minority of people in a group do a thing that a larger number of people within the group disapprove of. Saying the group as a whole does the thing is then a bit of a faux pas. He even says it in a defensive tone which makes it clear that he disapproves of it, which then reflects poorly on Korea. If you guys aren't picking up on any of these kinds of things, and think that as long as one person in Korea still eats dog then this remark should never be considered problematic because it's a fact, then you should really sit back and try to start making these observations. Anyway, it was just a joke.
billynasty has the wrong idea trying to make this into a political issue. There's a limit to how much people are willing to be treated like shit. Avilo crosses that line. There's nothing more to it. Again there's a real lack of nuance trying to equate Avilo's verbal abuse toward admins and Blizzard employees to Kaeleris's joke by saying they're both things that intolerant people oppose.
On March 31 2017 01:04 billynasty wrote: I agree that Avilo couldve handled this situation better, but he was justifiably upset about the same guy who cost him a spot a year ago was being allowed to play again. The intent of Avilo wasnt to cause harm to the event, it was him being upset that he had to play vs this guy. If the PC Police wants to punish Avilo for his response, then here is Kaelaris last night being racist on stream, about how people in Korea eat dogs: https://clips.twitch.tv/EnticingObservantCoffeeFailFish If the PC police goes after players, then shouldnt it go after official ESL casters too?
You call out PC police, but then say someone is racist for commenting that they eat dog meat in Korea? You realise they litterally do eat dog meat in Korea right?
That's not the breed they eat so it really wasn't factually correct. Besides, it is a situation that tends to cause friction: a minority of people in a group do a thing that a larger number of people within the group disapprove of. Saying the group as a whole does the thing is then a bit of a faux pas. He even says it in a defensive tone which makes it clear that he disapproves of it, which then reflects poorly on Korea. If you guys aren't picking up on any of these kinds of things, and think that as long as one person in Korea still eats dog then this remark should never be considered problematic because it's a fact, then you should really sit back and try to start making these observations. Anyway, it was just a joke.
billynasty has the wrong idea trying to make this into a political issue. There's a limit to how much people are willing to be treated like shit. Avilo crosses that line. There's nothing more to it. Again there's a real lack of nuance trying to equate Avilo's verbal abuse toward admins and Blizzard employees to Kaeleris's joke by saying they're both things that intolerant people oppose.
NonY, you should run for president
No, he just insulted everyone. Again. So he lost his Seed, but still can play the open bracket.
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
On March 31 2017 03:05 kaboombaby wrote: So is Nero 100% absolved by this?
Feels like the case against him should be rescrutinized. Because either we've been wrongfully condemning him this entire time because despite hotkey analysis for his MC game it was actually someone else (which is incredible), or Blizzard got something wrong here.
There is no middle ground with the way they've phrased it. A known cheater was on his account according to them. So clearly we totally fucked up a year ago when we called him a cheater using hotkey analysis. Wouldn't that undermine the entirety of the anticheat efforts we've put in over the past 7 years?
No, certainly not 100% absolved.
The way I read that was they were saying he wasn't hacking in the tournament itself, and maybe he was not hacking under that name on the ladder very recently...but that other people were hacking on that account recently...and that he may have been hacking on other accounts recently.
They were a little vague on how they worded that stuff, but its basically 'He wasn't hacking right now, but he's been hacking'
On March 31 2017 04:04 lastprobeALIVE wrote: Before you guys talk shit, watch the replays.. I watched them, I've watched a ton of starcraft and those games were fishy. Game 1 2 and 3. Game 1 ToD was like "he hasn't checked Avilo for a 4th, he could get a snipe here." He checks the fourth when CC lands, and starts planetary. He sends one empty dropship for the "scout", just seemed super fishy. He only lost game one because he got super frustrated when he tried to kill fourth, got stopped and he suicides into Avilo forces.
I watched game 2 and 3 both were multiple instances of being fishy
I did watch all the replays, the only people who would think anything was fishy are the simple minded avilo fanboys.
Avilo certainly shouldn't have started flaming Kaelaris on Reddit, and yes that probably does have something to do with his punishment.
However I strongly feel having watched it unfold at the time that Kaelaris shouldn't have been openly disparaging towards Avilo on an official Blizzard stream. Even if he has a reputation for calling people cheats, if he does it in an official tournament then the matter has to be looked into with an un-biased opinion. This is just how investigations take place and having an official Blizzard representative basically shoot the whole thing down before any investigation could take place was completely wrong.
Much of the blame from this whole situation must reside with ESL, if your running a tournament then you aught to be able to officiate it properly, they clearly couldn't, with just one guy to record results and no one able to investigate the claims. As this is sub-contacted out from Blizzard then questions also need to be asked if they are correct in choosing someone like ESL to run such a tournament on their behalf.
ESL seem to have somewhat of a monopoly over certain games and tournaments and seem to be constantly failing to deliver on multiple levels, whether it be in-adequate staffing, poor scheduling, late starts, or not even correctly labeling streams as if often the case with CS:GO ESA weekly that they also produce now.
Opinion seems to be divided of Kaelaris, in my opinion he had a good run in SC2 during HotS but has clearly moved on, he's doing well for himself in other games and good luck to him. However he clearly isn't really into SC2 anymore, this was evident by him having very little awareness of the features of current maps and also basically forgetting how to observe. I hope he does well in other games, he was good in HotS but perhaps for future SC2 events ESL should consider getting people who are still active when it comes to SC2.
On March 30 2017 21:17 ReachTheSky wrote: If blizzard refuses to reverse their ban on Avilo, they are literally saying to the community the following: 1:good manners > good gameplay, even though people don't tune in to watch how nice some acts, viewers tune in to see good game play. Perhaps this should be called the world morals series to see who can be morally correct on a more frequent basis than their opponent. 2:we prefer to conditionally enforce rules, play favorites, turn a blind eye when it comes to the in-crowd when it comes to enforcing policy and like to avoid giving equal opportunities, even to underdogs. 3:we don't value the community, we value what the oldboys club/old guard thinks over all because they(oldboys club) want to keep their status as progamers and are afraid to face avilo in a televised match should he qualify and crush them. 4:we don't value integrity, fair competition, equal opportunity, equal treatment among all our players. Even though the one being pentalize has promoted their championship game the longest out of all the remaining players via publicly access streams.
Reverse the ban.
Its disgusting how we have people on this forum who throw people under the bus dismissing everything they have to say just because "they feel like it" on a forum dedicated to playing a game
so you are the arbiters of who gets to qualify or not, your opinions more important than being gm skill, oic how it is.
all avilo wants is to play mech in starcraft 2 and have blizzard listen but its hard when you keep reaching out for 6 years and get nothing in return, it makes you bitter
and now we have these SJW people who overrule being grandmaster because they are "offended" and justify censorship and silencing simply due to "feelings"
on a spectrum the priority of feelings should never take precedence over competance, avilo earned that spot through his qualifications and has earned it rightfully
and thats not even considering avilo was upset because he was playing a legitimate HACKER and so was justified being upset IN THE FIRST PLACE
On March 31 2017 04:04 lastprobeALIVE wrote: Before you guys talk shit, watch the replays.. I watched them, I've watched a ton of starcraft and those games were fishy. Game 1 2 and 3. Game 1 ToD was like "he hasn't checked Avilo for a 4th, he could get a snipe here." He checks the fourth when CC lands, and starts planetary. He sends one empty dropship for the "scout", just seemed super fishy. He only lost game one because he got super frustrated when he tried to kill fourth, got stopped and he suicides into Avilo forces.
I watched game 2 and 3 both were multiple instances of being fishy
I did watch all the replays, the only people who would think anything was fishy are the simple minded avilo fanboys.
ToD thought Nero's movements in game where dodgy, Ruff also said it was strange, and although I've not seen it, apparently UThermal has watched replays and has stated his thinks Nero's actions were odd too. So just your regular Avilo fanboys.....
On March 31 2017 04:04 lastprobeALIVE wrote: Before you guys talk shit, watch the replays.. I watched them, I've watched a ton of starcraft and those games were fishy. Game 1 2 and 3. Game 1 ToD was like "he hasn't checked Avilo for a 4th, he could get a snipe here." He checks the fourth when CC lands, and starts planetary. He sends one empty dropship for the "scout", just seemed super fishy. He only lost game one because he got super frustrated when he tried to kill fourth, got stopped and he suicides into Avilo forces.
I watched game 2 and 3 both were multiple instances of being fishy
I did watch all the replays, the only people who would think anything was fishy are the simple minded avilo fanboys.
ToD thought Nero's movements in game where dodgy, Ruff also said it was strange, and although I've not seen it, apparently UThermal has watched replays and has stated his thinks Nero's actions were odd too. So just your regular Avilo fanboys.....
I stand by my original statement.
On March 31 2017 20:38 FoxDog wrote: Its disgusting how we have people on this forum who throw people under the bus dismissing everything they have to say just because "they feel like it" on a forum dedicated to playing a game
and now we have these SJW people who overrule being grandmaster because they are "offended" and justify censorship and silencing simply due to "feelings"
and thats not even considering avilo was upset because he was playing a legitimate HACKER and so was justified being upset IN THE FIRST PLACE
And I rest my case.
Forget rules, forget an investigation that proved there was no hacking involved. The almighty Conman avilo has spoken so he MUST be believed
Noone believes this disingenuous blizzard investigation and their PR talk. I could quote my own post but ReachTheSky even added a 4th option that's even more believable. Nero's just using a VPN or some other tool to mask his own IP.
Also did you see the recent thread that popped up? Map hacks are definitely back, there's no doubt this Juggernaut guy is a maphacker.
On April 01 2017 00:29 B-royal wrote: Noone believes this disingenuous blizzard investigation and their PR talk. I could quote my own post but ReachTheSky even added a 4th option that's even more believable. Nero's just using a VPN or some other tool to mask his own IP.
Also did you see the recent thread that popped up? Map hacks are definitely back, there's no doubt this Juggernaut guy is a maphacker.
I completely agree, how could Blizzard verify a player was map-hacking when their official stance is that no map-hacks exist. Simply put, they can't and wont. Instead they have come up with some other ban based around account sharing.
I have seen the video in the thread you linked, it's more than enough proof for me.
I wouldn't worry about arguing with people on this forum who are so blinded by hate that they stand by their own points even when they have been proven to be nonsense by far more qualified people. Especially when their initial points were based of nothing more than opinion.
It is fully understandable why a lot of people dislike Avilo, but thankfully most of these people realise he was actually right this time and most of them acknowledge this and are happily pointing out the 'boy who cried wolf' fable. Sadly their are still a few who are so hung up on disliking his personality they are blinded by hate and refuse to accept he was actually right this time.
On April 01 2017 00:51 Doodsmack wrote: Avilo frequently accuses players of hacking based on very shoddy reasoning. He deserves the punishment.
This doesn't even make sense, karma and justice are completely different.
He deserves punishment for the way he behaved after he reported the hacking. ESL couldn't act on his complaints at the time and he acted like a little bitch, this is what deserves punishment. The fact ESL couldn't act on his complaints is what drove him to be mad and whilst it is understandable to a degree, they certainly should have the means to act during the tournament, their is no excuse for how he behaved after that and that is why he is being punished.
Avilo himself sadly can't seem to see that his behavior after he initially complained is what is being punished regardless of whether he was in the right and was right when reporting the issue.
As I have stated before ESL should have the means to act upon such complaints during the tournament, this isn't a one off community ran event/small tournament, this is the first step on the way to the WCS finals. This is basically the first round of the most important global tournament of the year, and the fact decisions can't be made during a tournament is a joke. The fact players aren't vetted before the tournament is a joke.
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
Being right about the dude being a cheater doesn't suddenly vindicate you when you have a track record of accusing literally everyone who beats you of cheating.
On March 30 2017 13:47 THERIDDLER wrote: Wait isn't blizzard contradicting themselves? the fact that vindicta was confirmed hacker should offset avilo's rude behaviour towards him.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
It doesnt make it right but understandable.
I don't think anyone is saying that they can't understand the frustration - it's absolutely something that everyone can follow.
Most people, however, don't lose their tops when things don't go their way, and they have to go through a frustrating situation.
Who cares if the player in question was maphacking or not, ask yourself: could INnoVation or any other legitimate player have beaten that guy? If so, well there you go, the solution to your problem is simply to get good.
On April 01 2017 01:35 crazyc987654321 wrote: Being right about the dude being a cheater doesn't suddenly vindicate you when you have a track record of accusing literally everyone who beats you of cheating.
Yup. If every morning I shout at my neighbors and bang on their front door telling them to stay inside, shut their windows, and hide in their basements because there's going to be a massive thunderstorm and tornadoes, even the one day that actually happens doesn't mean the other hundred times were okay or that I get to treat people like garbage on the one day I happened to be correct and spew vile from my mouth at them because they refused to believe me. And it certainly doesn't mean that anyone else should ever believe me from that point on with regards to anything, especially the weather.
People who do that sort of thing in public are shunned or possibly even taken to mental health care centers or at the very least reported to the police and fined for disturbing the peace as well as harassment.
I thought it would be rather unsurprising when a person who cries wolf every day and grossly violates player conduct guidelines and is known to be offensive to and incite violent behavior towards other players and badmouths nearly every organisation related to Blizzard and StarCraft would be disqualified from an event and, sigh, I honestly expected everyone to understand why.
On March 30 2017 14:22 avilo wrote: This is all around bullshit
On April 01 2017 03:08 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: If I recall correctly, the boy who cried wolf got eaten by said wolves at the end of the story right?
He only got bit by one wolf so far, though I'd say we're a little closer to the happy ending of that classic tale. The wolves get fed without eating the li'l ol' sheep and the townspeople don't have to listen to his drivel anymore, it's so good I can't wait for it to happen irl. <3
On April 01 2017 00:51 Doodsmack wrote: Avilo frequently accuses players of hacking based on very shoddy reasoning. He deserves the punishment.
This doesn't even make sense, karma and justice are completely different.
He deserves punishment for the way he behaved after he reported the hacking. ESL couldn't act on his complaints at the time and he acted like a little bitch, this is what deserves punishment. The fact ESL couldn't act on his complaints is what drove him to be mad and whilst it is understandable to a degree, they certainly should have the means to act during the tournament, their is no excuse for how he behaved after that and that is why he is being punished.
Avilo himself sadly can't seem to see that his behavior after he initially complained is what is being punished regardless of whether he was in the right and was right when reporting the issue.
As I have stated before ESL should have the means to act upon such complaints during the tournament, this isn't a one off community ran event/small tournament, this is the first step on the way to the WCS finals. This is basically the first round of the most important global tournament of the year, and the fact decisions can't be made during a tournament is a joke. The fact players aren't vetted before the tournament is a joke.
Blizzard's rules are that people's behavior outside of the tournament is also grounds for punishment.
On April 01 2017 00:51 Doodsmack wrote: Avilo frequently accuses players of hacking based on very shoddy reasoning. He deserves the punishment.
This doesn't even make sense, karma and justice are completely different.
He deserves punishment for the way he behaved after he reported the hacking. ESL couldn't act on his complaints at the time and he acted like a little bitch, this is what deserves punishment. The fact ESL couldn't act on his complaints is what drove him to be mad and whilst it is understandable to a degree, they certainly should have the means to act during the tournament, their is no excuse for how he behaved after that and that is why he is being punished.
Avilo himself sadly can't seem to see that his behavior after he initially complained is what is being punished regardless of whether he was in the right and was right when reporting the issue.
As I have stated before ESL should have the means to act upon such complaints during the tournament, this isn't a one off community ran event/small tournament, this is the first step on the way to the WCS finals. This is basically the first round of the most important global tournament of the year, and the fact decisions can't be made during a tournament is a joke. The fact players aren't vetted before the tournament is a joke.
Blizzard's rules are that people's behavior outside of the tournament is also grounds for punishment.
I agree and that punishment should be applied before a tournament beings, this should be done when players who have applied to play are vetted, but they aren't.... Letting them compete and punishing retroactively would be wrong on the player, his opponents, viewers, fans et al. But this wasn't even the case.
Attributing the punishment he received for his behavior during this tournament to his behavior before it is not what happened, he was punished for his behavior towards admins, casters and the general way he behaved during the tournament after he expressed his concerns about his opponent and was told he still had to play.
His punishment has absolutely nothing to do with 'frequently accuses players of hacking based on very shoddy reasoning.'
Just watched Ketroc's analysis of a game, Retribution Vs Avilo, that Avilo submitted to him and claimed was maphacking.
The only thing it showed was that Retribution outplayed him at his own Viking+Raven game, and that Avilo needs no evidence other than he lost that the other player is a maphacker. Retribution, aka Nero, may hack at times, but this shows that against Avilo he doesn't need to.
And no, if you watch the game it isn't a hard to detect hack, there is not a single suspicious moment in it.
On April 01 2017 00:51 Doodsmack wrote: Avilo frequently accuses players of hacking based on very shoddy reasoning. He deserves the punishment.
This doesn't even make sense, karma and justice are completely different.
He deserves punishment for the way he behaved after he reported the hacking. ESL couldn't act on his complaints at the time and he acted like a little bitch, this is what deserves punishment. The fact ESL couldn't act on his complaints is what drove him to be mad and whilst it is understandable to a degree, they certainly should have the means to act during the tournament, their is no excuse for how he behaved after that and that is why he is being punished.
Avilo himself sadly can't seem to see that his behavior after he initially complained is what is being punished regardless of whether he was in the right and was right when reporting the issue.
As I have stated before ESL should have the means to act upon such complaints during the tournament, this isn't a one off community ran event/small tournament, this is the first step on the way to the WCS finals. This is basically the first round of the most important global tournament of the year, and the fact decisions can't be made during a tournament is a joke. The fact players aren't vetted before the tournament is a joke.
Blizzard's rules are that people's behavior outside of the tournament is also grounds for punishment.
I agree and that punishment should be applied before a tournament beings, this should be done when players who have applied to play are vetted, but they aren't.... Letting them compete and punishing retroactively would be wrong on the player, his opponents, viewers, fans et al. But this wasn't even the case.
Attributing the punishment he received for his behavior during this tournament to his behavior before it is not what happened, he was punished for his behavior towards admins, casters and the general way he behaved during the tournament after he expressed his concerns about his opponent and was told he still had to play.
His punishment has absolutely nothing to do with 'frequently accuses players of hacking based on very shoddy reasoning.'
That's a good point but I'd say his streaming activity should be a contributing factor at least.
As much as i hate Avilo, i have to agree with him this time. This is ridiculous. Can't expect much from this incompetent company that fixed cheating for only a week in 7 years and allows a known hacker to play tournaments, but at least give him a chance to do his cancer matches and lose fairly.
On April 01 2017 05:25 DeadByDawn wrote: Just watched Ketroc's analysis of a game, Retribution Vs Avilo, that Avilo submitted to him and claimed was maphacking.
The only thing it showed was that Retribution outplayed him at his own Viking+Raven game, and that Avilo needs no evidence other than he lost that the other player is a maphacker. Retribution, aka Nero, may hack at times, but this shows that against Avilo he doesn't need to.
And no, if you watch the game it isn't a hard to detect hack, there is not a single suspicious moment in it.
Still, neither player should be playing in WCS.
Wrong. It's one of 10+ games of him build order countering + production tab hack. In over 10 games vs Retribution he will always time his starports as i build mine every single game, over the course of 10+ games. He also never gets build order loss or disadvantage in any game.
Just because i won or lost the games vs him means nothing. And ketroc did not even analyze the games - he literally just started fanboying over raven vs raven and was commentating it like a normal game. I should have known better to even bother sending replays of a known hacker to a diamond leaguer.
I have many replays of me BEATING Nero, and he is also hacking in those games as well. Nero is not one of those "OBVIOUS" mher in that he very rarely will blatantly look into fog of war or those types of things. The way he abuses his hack is by doing the exact same thing you're doing (mirroring you) and doing it while being slightly ahead from always having a build order advantage (due to the MH).
You'll notice same in nero vs Ruff games where the guy will blindly decide whether or not to get turrets, etc. in the opener. If you go raven, he'll either go raven to match you, or he'll play heavy macro since he knows you're playing defense.
If you go cloak banshee he'll go raven viking.
If you go cyclone he'll build 2 more cyclones than you.
Ketroc did zero analysis on the game, and failed to even notice at around 19:30 you can see what i'm describing about him using his production tab hack to mirror and time his production of starports at the exact same time.
Both sottorks and Nero did this against me in the most recent WCS qualifiers. One of the games vs Sottorks i build two starports and sottorks immediately queues up two starports as well almost less than one second later.
But like i said - unless you have played versus these hackers enough and have spotted these things, it's tough to spot. Ketroc blatantly just started commentating about ravens instead of doing any analysis whatsoever.
On April 01 2017 05:25 DeadByDawn wrote: Just watched Ketroc's analysis of a game, Retribution Vs Avilo, that Avilo submitted to him and claimed was maphacking.
The only thing it showed was that Retribution outplayed him at his own Viking+Raven game, and that Avilo needs no evidence other than he lost that the other player is a maphacker. Retribution, aka Nero, may hack at times, but this shows that against Avilo he doesn't need to.
And no, if you watch the game it isn't a hard to detect hack, there is not a single suspicious moment in it.
Still, neither player should be playing in WCS.
Wrong. It's one of 10+ games of him build order countering + production tab hack. In over 10 games vs Retribution he will always time his starports as i build mine every single game, over the course of 10+ games. He also never gets build order loss or disadvantage in any game.
Just because i won or lost the games vs him means nothing. And ketroc did not even analyze the games - he literally just started fanboying over raven vs raven and was commentating it like a normal game. I should have known better to even bother sending replays of a known hacker to a diamond leaguer.
I have many replays of me BEATING Nero, and he is also hacking in those games as well. Nero is not one of those "OBVIOUS" mher in that he very rarely will blatantly look into fog of war or those types of things. The way he abuses his hack is by doing the exact same thing you're doing (mirroring you) and doing it while being slightly ahead from always having a build order advantage (due to the MH).
You'll notice same in nero vs Ruff games where the guy will blindly decide whether or not to get turrets, etc. in the opener. If you go raven, he'll either go raven to match you, or he'll play heavy macro since he knows you're playing defense.
If you go cloak banshee he'll go raven viking.
If you go cyclone he'll build 2 more cyclones than you.
Ketroc did zero analysis on the game, and failed to even notice at around 19:30 you can see what i'm describing about him using his production tab hack to mirror and time his production of starports at the exact same time.
Both sottorks and Nero did this against me in the most recent WCS qualifiers. One of the games vs Sottorks i build two starports and sottorks immediately queues up two starports as well almost less than one second later.
But like i said - unless you have played versus these hackers enough and have spotted these things, it's tough to spot. Ketroc blatantly just started commentating about ravens instead of doing any analysis whatsoever.
Ahhh yes the "Information Dump" defense. Give someone 10 plus maps to "prove" your claim and then when you're proven wrong, claim that they used the wrong map, that way you can NEVER be wrong. Or when they do look at them all claim they missed one minute and irrelevant detail at "Time point x of map y" to vainly attempt to render their whole argument invalid.
On April 01 2017 05:25 DeadByDawn wrote: Just watched Ketroc's analysis of a game, Retribution Vs Avilo, that Avilo submitted to him and claimed was maphacking.
The only thing it showed was that Retribution outplayed him at his own Viking+Raven game, and that Avilo needs no evidence other than he lost that the other player is a maphacker. Retribution, aka Nero, may hack at times, but this shows that against Avilo he doesn't need to.
And no, if you watch the game it isn't a hard to detect hack, there is not a single suspicious moment in it.
Still, neither player should be playing in WCS.
Wrong. It's one of 10+ games of him build order countering + production tab hack. In over 10 games vs Retribution he will always time his starports as i build mine every single game, over the course of 10+ games. He also never gets build order loss or disadvantage in any game.
Just because i won or lost the games vs him means nothing. And ketroc did not even analyze the games - he literally just started fanboying over raven vs raven and was commentating it like a normal game. I should have known better to even bother sending replays of a known hacker to a diamond leaguer.
I have many replays of me BEATING Nero, and he is also hacking in those games as well. Nero is not one of those "OBVIOUS" mher in that he very rarely will blatantly look into fog of war or those types of things. The way he abuses his hack is by doing the exact same thing you're doing (mirroring you) and doing it while being slightly ahead from always having a build order advantage (due to the MH).
You'll notice same in nero vs Ruff games where the guy will blindly decide whether or not to get turrets, etc. in the opener. If you go raven, he'll either go raven to match you, or he'll play heavy macro since he knows you're playing defense.
If you go cloak banshee he'll go raven viking.
If you go cyclone he'll build 2 more cyclones than you.
Ketroc did zero analysis on the game, and failed to even notice at around 19:30 you can see what i'm describing about him using his production tab hack to mirror and time his production of starports at the exact same time.
Both sottorks and Nero did this against me in the most recent WCS qualifiers. One of the games vs Sottorks i build two starports and sottorks immediately queues up two starports as well almost less than one second later.
But like i said - unless you have played versus these hackers enough and have spotted these things, it's tough to spot. Ketroc blatantly just started commentating about ravens instead of doing any analysis whatsoever.
Ahhh yes the "Information Dump" defense. Give someone 10 plus maps to "prove" your claim and then when you're proven wrong, claim that they used the wrong map, that way you can NEVER be wrong. Or when they do look at them all claim they missed one minute and irrelevant detail at "Time point x of map y" to vainly attempt to render their whole argument invalid.
I haven't been proven wrong? I was proven right? Nero is a 100% confirmed known hacker. Saying otherwise is absolutely retarded in all respects.
Also btw Blizzard's official statement is either a flat out lie or they were incompetent in making it because as many have stated in this thread, Nero prob used VPN or other ways to mask that he was the person on his account. It was absolutely him every time - the hotkeys of the games match up.
On April 01 2017 05:25 DeadByDawn wrote: Just watched Ketroc's analysis of a game, Retribution Vs Avilo, that Avilo submitted to him and claimed was maphacking.
The only thing it showed was that Retribution outplayed him at his own Viking+Raven game, and that Avilo needs no evidence other than he lost that the other player is a maphacker. Retribution, aka Nero, may hack at times, but this shows that against Avilo he doesn't need to.
And no, if you watch the game it isn't a hard to detect hack, there is not a single suspicious moment in it.
Still, neither player should be playing in WCS.
Wrong. It's one of 10+ games of him build order countering + production tab hack. In over 10 games vs Retribution he will always time his starports as i build mine every single game, over the course of 10+ games. He also never gets build order loss or disadvantage in any game.
Just because i won or lost the games vs him means nothing. And ketroc did not even analyze the games - he literally just started fanboying over raven vs raven and was commentating it like a normal game. I should have known better to even bother sending replays of a known hacker to a diamond leaguer.
I have many replays of me BEATING Nero, and he is also hacking in those games as well. Nero is not one of those "OBVIOUS" mher in that he very rarely will blatantly look into fog of war or those types of things. The way he abuses his hack is by doing the exact same thing you're doing (mirroring you) and doing it while being slightly ahead from always having a build order advantage (due to the MH).
You'll notice same in nero vs Ruff games where the guy will blindly decide whether or not to get turrets, etc. in the opener. If you go raven, he'll either go raven to match you, or he'll play heavy macro since he knows you're playing defense.
If you go cloak banshee he'll go raven viking.
If you go cyclone he'll build 2 more cyclones than you.
Ketroc did zero analysis on the game, and failed to even notice at around 19:30 you can see what i'm describing about him using his production tab hack to mirror and time his production of starports at the exact same time.
Both sottorks and Nero did this against me in the most recent WCS qualifiers. One of the games vs Sottorks i build two starports and sottorks immediately queues up two starports as well almost less than one second later.
But like i said - unless you have played versus these hackers enough and have spotted these things, it's tough to spot. Ketroc blatantly just started commentating about ravens instead of doing any analysis whatsoever.
Ahhh yes the "Information Dump" defense. Give someone 10 plus maps to "prove" your claim and then when you're proven wrong, claim that they used the wrong map, that way you can NEVER be wrong. Or when they do look at them all claim they missed one minute and irrelevant detail at "Time point x of map y" to vainly attempt to render their whole argument invalid.
I haven't been proven wrong? I was proven right? Nero is a 100% confirmed known hacker. Saying otherwise is absolutely retarded in all respects.
Also btw Blizzard's official statement is either a flat out lie or they were incompetent in making it because as many have stated in this thread, Nero prob used VPN or other ways to mask that he was the person on his account. It was absolutely him every time - the hotkeys of the games match up.
I rest my case. It's always something. If people look at the replays and find nothing it's "time point x on map y" to prove you're right and they're wrong. If the investigation says "X player is not a hacker" it's "Well they probably use VPN to mask themselves" to prove you're right and they're wrong. If you ever lose a game it's not because "I'm fucking terrible at the game and I play a shit style" it's "the game is broken" or "This guy hacks" to prove you're right and they're wrong
Meanwhile you continue to happily milk deluded fanboys out of their pocket money because getting better at the game might actually take real work and dedication. Does that make you feel like a good man? Does that make you feel important? Do you have any self awareness whatsoever? Or has the avilo "character" you play finally grown to the point where you've lost all grip on reality?
@Avilo: Here is what the community, the casters, the tournament admins and the fans of the game in general, need from you to ever truly acknowledge and/or trust a single word you post or say:
1) "I avilo, have accused incorrectly too many players of hacking."
2) "I avilo, have too often in the past refused to own up to my own mistakes and failures."
3) "I avilo, have never been able to compete at the highest levels in SC2 and am predictable in my playstyle. " (This is important as A - the vast majority of players you have accused of hacking in the past, KNOW HOW YOU PLAY. B - Your lack of humility in stating your arguments is detrimental to the credibility of your stance).
4) "I avilo, have been disrespectful towards others players and dismissed their skills at the game too often."
5) "I avilo, will in the future try to be more honest and respectful. I will aim to conduct myself in a more adult manner with the community, the casters, the tournament admins and the fans of the game in general."
6) "I avilo, will stop crying wolf."
7) "I avilo am not special and thus am subject to the same rules and guidelines as participants in any given tournament."
Until you testify to this or something like it, no one of any rational/impartial standing will ever take you seriously.
I am sorry, this is just the truth. Goodluck and Have Fun.
On April 01 2017 05:25 DeadByDawn wrote: Just watched Ketroc's analysis of a game, Retribution Vs Avilo, that Avilo submitted to him and claimed was maphacking.
The only thing it showed was that Retribution outplayed him at his own Viking+Raven game, and that Avilo needs no evidence other than he lost that the other player is a maphacker. Retribution, aka Nero, may hack at times, but this shows that against Avilo he doesn't need to.
And no, if you watch the game it isn't a hard to detect hack, there is not a single suspicious moment in it.
Still, neither player should be playing in WCS.
Wrong. It's one of 10+ games of him build order countering + production tab hack. In over 10 games vs Retribution he will always time his starports as i build mine every single game, over the course of 10+ games. He also never gets build order loss or disadvantage in any game.
Just because i won or lost the games vs him means nothing. And ketroc did not even analyze the games - he literally just started fanboying over raven vs raven and was commentating it like a normal game. I should have known better to even bother sending replays of a known hacker to a diamond leaguer.
I have many replays of me BEATING Nero, and he is also hacking in those games as well. Nero is not one of those "OBVIOUS" mher in that he very rarely will blatantly look into fog of war or those types of things. The way he abuses his hack is by doing the exact same thing you're doing (mirroring you) and doing it while being slightly ahead from always having a build order advantage (due to the MH).
You'll notice same in nero vs Ruff games where the guy will blindly decide whether or not to get turrets, etc. in the opener. If you go raven, he'll either go raven to match you, or he'll play heavy macro since he knows you're playing defense.
If you go cloak banshee he'll go raven viking.
If you go cyclone he'll build 2 more cyclones than you.
Ketroc did zero analysis on the game, and failed to even notice at around 19:30 you can see what i'm describing about him using his production tab hack to mirror and time his production of starports at the exact same time.
Both sottorks and Nero did this against me in the most recent WCS qualifiers. One of the games vs Sottorks i build two starports and sottorks immediately queues up two starports as well almost less than one second later.
But like i said - unless you have played versus these hackers enough and have spotted these things, it's tough to spot. Ketroc blatantly just started commentating about ravens instead of doing any analysis whatsoever.
Ahhh yes the "Information Dump" defense. Give someone 10 plus maps to "prove" your claim and then when you're proven wrong, claim that they used the wrong map, that way you can NEVER be wrong. Or when they do look at them all claim they missed one minute and irrelevant detail at "Time point x of map y" to vainly attempt to render their whole argument invalid.
I haven't been proven wrong? I was proven right? Nero is a 100% confirmed known hacker. Saying otherwise is absolutely retarded in all respects.
Also btw Blizzard's official statement is either a flat out lie or they were incompetent in making it because as many have stated in this thread, Nero prob used VPN or other ways to mask that he was the person on his account. It was absolutely him every time - the hotkeys of the games match up.
Instead of making claims, substantiate them with evidence so people can take you seriously.
As I pointed out in the other thread, the chances you played multiple hackers in the past month are incredibly low, especially at your higher MMR rating. Most of the people who have the latest working hacks are not top end players, and probably wouldn't even be masters level.
Furthermore, there is not even a functioning production tab hack with the same functionality as the ones in the past as of right now; only private map hacks. So to even claim such a thing is clearly based on some emotional issues in regards to this topic, or losing, or being banned, or whatever.
One point that is worth noting is that if you watch another player around high masters/low GM mmr over a few hours on stream, they will play a variety of opponents. On Avilo's stream he tends to get a lot of the same opponents over and over.
Obviously people stream snipe him, probably to get some sort of recognition or e-fame or just simply to get a reaction out of him, he rises to the bait all to often as we all know.
It's obviously pretty easy to do this as i recall watching Yo-Go from the French streaming network O'Gaming snipe him like 3 days in a row, probably because the French audience would think it was funny. Needless to say Avilo won, Yo-Go's massive ping can't have helped though but as an excersie in showing how easy it was so snipe Avilo it proved to be quite useful.
His own antics on stream does make him a target for stream snipers and if people were going to hack, then who better to do it against, someone who you are guaranteed to get a reaction from on stream so the hacker could just sit back and laugh. As a result he is probably a lot more likely to face snipers or even hackers than other people of a similar mmr.
Also worth noting that he does insta quit a lot of games so as not to have to play a lot of these people, thus losing mmr in the process. He managed to maintain GM level in HotS whilst insta quitting all games vs Protoss. Still makes me laugh to be honest.
The only reason he gets the same opponents over and over is he instaquits against those he can't beat without blaming something other than his lack of ability.
mhm idk maybe it would be a good idea nexttime to review the files without player names or without the context. What i got out of the thread so far is that people dont like Avilo and pointing out that he cried wolf to many times.
If you start accusing everyone who beats you cheating, you might have a chance to strike gold once or twice in a 1000 times. That's just the law of average in the working. And that doesn't vindicate the 999 of the times Avilo is wrong in his accusations and being a real douchebag on top of that.
EPT
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