EPTAll the details have been discussed earlier in this thread.
Thank you.
LotV Balance Test Map Changes Compilation - Page 4
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KenZo-
Faroe Islands190 Posts
All the details have been discussed earlier in this thread. Thank you. | ||
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JackONeill
861 Posts
On November 15 2016 08:42 Levyathan wrote: I don't think they're getting it right with the tempest. Add an ability to that unit doesnt seems very constructive to the game. Why stun ? Why 7 seconds ??? It is any different from the oracle's trap ? With the cyclone's change, it with hurt alot of the unit's micro potential but make the unit generally stronger. In the video, DK also said Thor's going to be one of the core Anti-air for terran. The problem is, it doesnt matter how hard you buff its damage or splash, a unit like thor is forever too slow to catch up with moving flying target, not to mention that the thor doesnt even deal that much damage. Actually the thor does a decent job at fighting nerf ranged tempests and BLs. It's atrocious against liberators, and gets extremely hard countered by vipers. But the main weakness is that against opponents using air techpath, the thor being the core mech AA unit means that you won't ever be able to move out unless you have a decent amount of thors. You can't match the count of vikings an opponent that goes straight into air builds. You can't build enough vikings or cyclones to counter a mass phenixes strategy. So you have to stay at home and turtle up. | ||
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emc
United States3088 Posts
but yea this thread just made me feel a bit nostalgic for the LotV beta, what if the burrowed moving banelings and burrow charge ultras still existed, would be crazy also, how much energy did warp cost for BCs? having a 71 second cool down now means no player will be using teleport aggressively, not that they really did before | ||
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TentatvePnda
4 Posts
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insitelol
845 Posts
On November 15 2016 17:02 TentatvePnda wrote: I think zerg will end up being very weak with these changes Like, how do you even remotely jump to that conclusion? 40 hp banelings? (FFS) 7 range hydras? (FFS) Already being core units in pvz they gonna give hell to protoss. All this with ravager remaining unarmored. And adepts nerfed... I, personally, don't give a shit about adepts cause i dont rely on them much in any mu, but what the f? Shade was their core concept and now they just strip their harassment and scouting potential off completely. Not damage output, not timings/allin potential but harassment and scouting. WHY? Swarmhosts... a stupid gimmick unit becoming almost free for insane harrasment potential it has on certain maps. REMOVE IT FFS. Dont even get me started on toss air buffs. I DON'T WANT TO RELY ON AIR UNITS in any mu. This is BORING. Blink DTs? I promise you will never see them in play. 2 min research for a completely worthless ability. Noone use them w/o warprism anywayz. And prism has an in-built blink for any unit ok? Where are the actual zerg nerfs? BL range - are you fcking kidding me? Noone will ever notice. Ultra nerf is hardly even a nerf. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
If 7 range hydras can be microed to trade favorably against adepts, then protoss doesn't stand a chance. That's their core unit, which is supposed to be an anti light specialist and can't shoot up. | ||
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prabuty
Poland26 Posts
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insitelol
845 Posts
On November 15 2016 18:36 Salteador Neo wrote: Wait they aren't making ravagers armored? Holy shit mech will never be a thing in TvZ with those things around (and vipers in the lategame). Why would you assume it was supposed to be a thing? Because blizzard said so? If you look at the changes it becomes clear that mech isn't really THAT buffed as it seemed at the start. Cyclone changes are pretty meh (buffed "vs armored" only), tanks traded their insane mobility for damage vs...... armored units, that zerg..... dont need to build to counter mech. So under the disguise of "mechin it happen" they just straight up BUFFED zerg to the skies. NICE ONE BLIZZARD. I won't be surprised if that wasn't their intention. Cause they actually have no fcking idea what they are doing. At all. | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 15 2016 18:42 prabuty wrote: So... How are you gonna hold any early baneling-hydra 3-base allins ("early aggression") without losing your 3rd as protoss? This actually eliminates any potential for early economic play for protoss in pvz. Removing the release interceptors ability from carriers is probably something I can live with, but I don't really understand the point of adding this shadow stride ability (another active ability so it feels like now there are not enough hotkeys on the keyboard to be able to cast them all) to dt's except from some early allins that protoss players will be experimenting with shortly after the patch is released. What I mean by that is that protoss will not receive any new "real" harassment options vs. terran as this dt play will get countered so hard by a default turret-mine placement in all expansions that terran is taking (there is actually a considerable difference between harassing with medivacs that you can send to a certain location with pre-selected drop command so that you can concentrate on manouvering your main army force and harassing with expensive units like a dt or oracle that can die to a single shot from a burrowed mine...). This mech play in pvt, for what I can tell at least based on what I'm seeing in these changes, will actually mean carnage for protoss since the new tank-hellbat-cyclone composition decimates any gate protoss force with vikings owning any colossi, carriers, and tempests (yeah, there is no interceptor release potential to hit and run a mech force being halfway to their destination).And to think that it's gonna happen on maps like King Sejong Station or Galactic Process with so many chokes and upper-ground siege locations KSS and Gal will both be phased out by the time the change hits. "Early" and "At the bare minimum 7 minutes into the game" don't check out. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20374453/patch-38-preview-major-patch-for-multiplayer-11-14-2016 | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On November 15 2016 05:40 DinoMight wrote: Oh, I didn't watch it. That's why I was asking. I'm sure it will take a little time for the game to get figured out. All they've done is buff mech but they haven't changed bio. Koreans typically are more concerned with winning than trying new things when they play in tournaments. Here's what happened in the GSL tournament: - cyclone cheese, lots of it - voidray busts, many of them - Terran composition is bio/cyclone in early & midgame, then transitions into bio/mine/liberator (or whatever else you need to deal with the Protoss comp) Granted, this will need more time to be figured out in its entirety. It always takes time before people figure out mech. On the current patch we're at a point where Koreans have mech figured out in two match-ups (although it hugely depends on the maps), it took almost a year for us to reach this point and the entire time everyone was convinced ground mech was bad. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
On November 15 2016 18:57 insitelol wrote: And btw there is a much better and organized official source http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20374453/patch-38-preview-major-patch-for-multiplayer-11-14-2016 Haha, what a classic that they would release this only hours after I made the effort to organise the old post. Well it's still good to have it on TL. | ||
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prabuty
Poland26 Posts
On November 15 2016 18:53 Probe1 wrote: KSS and Gal will both be phased out by the time the change hits. "Early" and "At the bare minimum 7 minutes into the game" don't check out. Well, to be more specific by saying "early" I meant that zerg would be able to take down protoss 3rd so easily with taking only like 3 gases and having full mineral saturation in his main and natural with using a hatchery in his 3rd for spamming zerglings and relying solely on the new strength of banelings and +2 hydras. I'm making this assumption based on the current regular expansion timings in pvz with any further delay of protoss 3rd benefiting only zerg. By mentioning maps like KSS and Gal I wanted to stress out the fact that such map architectures extremely favor terran over as could be seen in the last Dark-Byun finals, for example. | ||
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loko822
54 Posts
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On November 15 2016 08:42 Levyathan wrote: They think TvP mech will be a thing and Protoss will need more help breaking siege lines (whether this is accurate or not is a whole other story).I don't think they're getting it right with the tempest. Add an ability to that unit doesnt seems very constructive to the game. Why stun ? On November 15 2016 08:42 Levyathan wrote: Any more is probably too strong while any less is probably too inconsequentialWhy 7 seconds ??? On November 15 2016 08:42 Levyathan wrote: You can attack and kill units stunned by the tempest but not units trapped by the oracle.It is any different from the oracle's trap ? On November 15 2016 19:36 loko822 wrote: Im curious since I havent seen any match with this patch...will there still be the good old Bio vs ling/bane interaction or how do protosses now vs a ling/bane/ravager composition? I would assume banes killing more now so forcing players to change playstyle. Also the smaller skirmishes in TvZ (drops/runbys) should be more dominated by banes, right? The interactions still exist. ByuN-style focus firing down speed banes is less efficient, but splitting and widow mines still seem to work out pretty well. With the liberator nerf mutas could also make a comeback and shift compositions a bit. You're right though that the smaller skirmishes more often get decided by banes. As for ravager/ling/bane, there was a game of that in the GSL test tournament, Zest vs ByuL, where ByuL went for that composition and Zest destroyed him with stalker/sentry/immortal/archon and perfect force fields. | ||
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Hier
2391 Posts
Viking Ground mode auto-attack now deals +8 mechanical damage. The hell is mechanical damage? | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
Bonus damage to units with the mechanical tag. Like probes or siege tanks. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
On November 15 2016 20:25 Elentos wrote: Bonus damage to units with the mechanical tag. Like probes or siege tanks. viking drop harass is real and they also can fight stalkers now :D | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
Then there is Blink DTs, a change that will do nothing on higher level, apart from a DT or two being saved sometimes. In lower leagues on the other hand, this will make the games even more frustrating and drive new players insane. Those two and the random Viking change is something I don't get, but none of them will make a huge impact I think. | ||
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prabuty
Poland26 Posts
On November 15 2016 20:36 Musicus wrote: viking drop harass is real and they also can fight stalkers now :D Yeah, I saw this on some stream recently so it seems like this in-game information about direct counters to units is no longer relevant | ||
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