Possible Boycott of Afreeca TV GSL? - Page 5

Noonius

Estonia17413 Posts

October 21 2015 19:15 GMT

#81

On October 22 2015 03:57 Popkiller wrote:
How big is Afreeca and how important are the GSL and SC2 to it?

If shit really hits the fan, Blizzard could step in and make a deal with twitch directly. It'll be costly (basically paying off afreeca and then paying for the broadcast costs) but blizzard really can't let korean scene go belly up

Clonester

Germany2808 Posts

October 21 2015 19:17 GMT

#82

On October 22 2015 04:15 Noonius wrote:

Show nested quote +

Why couldnt they? The major sells are done after this holidays. After that, Blizzard would have to plan to bring out more SC II buyable content to make money off it. So they could let the scene in korea go belly up if they want. That would be a buisness decision.

Popkiller

3415 Posts

October 21 2015 19:21 GMT

#83

On October 22 2015 04:17 Clonester wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah, once LotV releases, I don't see the motive for Blizzard to keep promoting SC2 eSports. Unless they keep WCS going to promote their other games, like HotS and Hearthstone, and SC2 is along for the ride.

EvilsPresley

France132 Posts

October 21 2015 19:35 GMT

#84

IMO, That's short minded to think that Blizzard will not care anymore about Starcraft brand and image after LotV is released. Of course there might be a bit less money injected in the pro scene, but I doubt they will stop promoting esport for SC2, as it will hurt their own image and possibilities in the future. And if korean SC2 is going to die, I think Blizzard will step up at some point, even if we don't hear about it officially, they will try to stop the bleeding.

TRaFFiC

Canada1448 Posts

October 21 2015 19:44 GMT

#85

On October 22 2015 02:43 Roggay wrote:
So basically blackmailing.

To me, being a streamer is a very different fact than being a progamer. They match-fixed as progamers, they have to be punished as progamers and not as streamers. Once they serve their legitimate punishement, whatever that is, they should be free to be streamers. Period.

I understand that Afreeca is in a weird position, being the owner of GSL (as I understand, I am pretty out of touch with sc2), but here we are talking about Afreeca as the streaming platform, not the GSL owner.
I am commenting here even tho I don't follow sc2 because people had they exact same reactions towards match-fixers in the csgo community.

I really respect Afreeca (well I respect that move, I don't really know anything about Afreeca) for not giving up to the pressure and the bullshits.

Blackmail is such a dirty word. It's just a show of power.

I don't see why you make such a distinction between programmer/streamer. Many programmers start their careers as streamers, supplement their income through streaming, and end their careers with streaming. Not to throw out another horrible analogy, but this seems like allowing a doctor to operate a private practice after he's banned from the hospital for malpractice. Well, he's banned from his job. He served his punishment. Why not let him practice on his own? After all, his clients can make their own decision. Nopeeeeee. The same way people shouldn't be allowed to make this decision. God forbid anyone donates to the match fixers (and they will).

Djzapz

Canada10681 Posts

October 21 2015 20:57 GMT

#86

On October 22 2015 04:44 TRaFFiC wrote:

Show nested quote +

Because a doctor who lost his job for malpractice has perhaps shown that he cannot be trusted to do medicine but a progamer who cannot be trusted to compete fairly hasn't shown that he can't stream. Are you honestly saying that there's no difference in comparing a doctor who's practice of medicine was judged to be faulty going out to practice the EXACT SAME JOB and a pro gamer doing something in which his activities have nothing to do with the crime he was accused of? The doctor could still do the same thing. The matchfixer couldn't lose a game on purpose for money.

Honestly it's astounding to me. The fact that pro gamers start their careers as streamers is irrelevant. Pro gamers also start their careers as gamers. Should pro gamers who matchfix or cheat be prevented from playing games, too, since those two things are connected? Should Lance Armstrong be prevented from using a bike because there's no distinction between casually practicing a sport and competitive play?

I've streamed Starcraft 2 before, I've streamed games, and I've played competitive Counter-Strike and won money many years ago. Those are two completely separate areas of life that have nothing to do with one another. If you want to articulate some sort of weird link between competitive play and streaming, you're not thinking rationally, you're just out for blood.

Also you seem to have confused the words progamer with programmers. Those are different things.

Like I said before, it can be argued that there may be a conflict of interest and Afreeca shouldn't run GSL, but otherwise, the idea that people should be punished in ways that are in no actual way related to their crime is absurd and it's an argument from emotion.

Broodwurst

Germany1586 Posts

October 21 2015 20:59 GMT

#87

So...shortly after the GSL moves to Afreeca shit hits the fan like this, with Kespa being all angry and stuff? You sure could write a nice conspiracy story about this

Chuddinater

Korea (South)169 Posts

October 22 2015 00:13 GMT

#88

On October 22 2015 02:13 Clonester wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 22 2015 01:52 r_gg wrote:

On October 22 2015 01:41 Clonester wrote:

On October 22 2015 01:33 r_gg wrote:

On October 22 2015 01:31 Clonester wrote:

On October 22 2015 01:24 RCCar wrote:

On October 21 2015 18:27 Penev wrote:

On October 21 2015 18:12 BLinD-RawR wrote:
afreeca should just comply with KeSPA's demands if only to just protect their brand.

this is getting absolutely ridiculous, people barely watch those who matchfixed and there are not that many of them to begin with, its not like afreeca is making any money off of them either, whichever way you look at it they are better off banning matchfixers.

I guess in this case I'm glad that Afreeca aren't the ones running the VANT Starleague.

I disagree. In general, I don't think it's a good thing when one organization can force another to act as they want them to. In this case, on top of that, you can't punish people, convicted in the past, for a more recent crime committed by others.

People are always so willing to add to the punishment criminals are already getting.

Edit: I'd also like to add the following: Banning these people won't do anything against matchfixing. NOTHING. Please people, be more critical about false safety measures like these.

At this point for Kespa, its less about players making money(Prob not gonna get many views anyway) but more about sending a message to everyone in this scene: we are willing to all stand together against matchfixing and send out the message that there will be no sympathy for players involved in illegal actvities. What's to stop low performing players to matchfix if it actually benefits them?

Salaries?

and where are you going to get those salaries from when incidents like these drive away sponsors?

Thats a self-fulfilling prophecy: Players dont earn enough to live, start matchfixing, sponser get driven away, players dont earn enough, start matchfixing.

When a single made up loss in a ProLeague Bo1 brings you more money then a top 4 GSL finish, something is wrong. And thats not the matchfixing, that is anyways allways wrong, but the whole system is wrong in itself. With the missing salaries you will never clean out the corruption as the whole SC II scene in korea is partly build on shady sponsors and matchfixing. Otherwise there would be players and teams missing. The scene needs either more money or drastically less players or else we will have fixed matches all over the place (like have at the moment or does anyone think the prime case was the only fixing case?)

You cant expect that you are able to exploid players for years in their best years for zero to not much money and they will not take every possible money someone holds in their face. Yes alot of players have "higher morals" and would never match fix, but a system build just on the moral of players wasting years of their youth is something that has to fail completly.

Stop blaming Kespa for the poor conditions players are in right now. Sure kespa wasn't perfect, but they are also the ones that kept many of the big name sponsors to stick around to this day. There are plenty of sources that says the only reason some of the sponsors are still supporting esports is because of Kespa. The ones that did critical damage to the scene right now are the match-fixers during BW that drove down the reputation of the scene to the point where major sponsors went away, several teams got disbanded, and had one of the biggest gaming channels at the time to close down. Whatever negligence Kespa had doesn't even come close to the level of damage these guys had on causing the scene to be at the current state.

Also, "it won't have happened if the prizes were more even" argument completely falls apart by the fact that YoDa, a former champion who managed to enjoy the money concentrated at the top, was involved in match-fixing.

Kespa lost 2013 Woongjin and Soul, while esF lost FXO. Matchfixing was 3 years before that. You cant search every decline in SC II at the fixers of BW.
As Kespa says they want to protect the players, i shurely say they are responsible for the players situation: They let prime play a whole year in ProLeague just to get the 8th slot fill while seeing how the team has zero cash flow, zero payments, treats the players shitty and headcoach full of madness. Thats something I say kespa is to blame. The current scene of SC II is shit and yes, I blame kespa for it. Shure without the matchfixers 2010 it could look better, way better. But it could also look better with the fixing in 2010 when kespa managed the scene better. You cant be happy how the scene looks like me, but I will not blame people in desperate fights for income but I blame the system. Yes, I know fixing is a crime and they should never play in leagues and tournaments, that they should be punished. But they did not commit warcrimes, they just desperatly fighted to get something out of the gigantic timewaste that SC II was in their life. When there is too less money for so many players, kespa should just stop giving Pro-Player-Licenses to every dude out there who can play the game but protect them from themselfes. And thus means only licenses for players with a salary from a team or sponsor. All other can play amateur leagues, concetrate on education and might get drafted by a team. The scene is just to big to work at the moment.
And yes, there is a reason why law systems watch every case individual: Savior was an a whole other lvl then most other fixer and also the one and only streaming fixer. I could understand if you want him to get banned of every streaming what so ever, but a small wheel like the actually streaming matchfixer? I will never understand it.

And YoDa does not stream at all. Nor does he won soooo much, 100k $ over 4 years is lower then the average korean income and that for sacrificing youth and education which will you bring much more money in the later stages of life then 100k $. And lets be real, do you know how much Yoda earned 2015? Code S Ro16, + Code S Ro32 + Code A Ro48. Makes togeather 2482$. What a lovely income for 10 months of time wasting. And you think it is wonder when people will fix matches for 5k $ per Bo1 or even more? Dragged by their trusted head coach?

Just to clear this up the reason STX and Woongjin disbanded is because the corporations went bankrupt and had to sell each division of the company away. It has nothing to do with e-Sports.

Clbull

United Kingdom1439 Posts

October 22 2015 01:02 GMT

#89

KeSPA really need to drop their beef with Afreeca already; lest they risk to strangulate the Korean SC2 scene and drive out one of the few companies willing to invest in the scene. What disqualified match-fixing SC streamers do on Afreeca have NOTHING to do with eSports and Afreeca is well-aware of that.

Other than Afreeca, who do Blizzard really have to partner up with? SPOTV already have their hands full with Proleague and their own Starleague, OGN noped out of the scene after the failure of WCS Korea and MBC decided that k-pop was far better to syndicate than eSports.

Now if Afreeca were to allow match-fixers like YoDa, BBoongBBoong, sAviOr and others to compete in GSL, there'd be a very reasonable and justifiable shitstorm that would measure 9.7 on the Shitsterscale.

But this is not eSports. This is just people streaming StarCraft for entertainment purposes, and the site's users are entitled to choose whether or not to support that player.

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