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On October 21 2015 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i definitely agree with orlok
i feel a lot of foreign people, members of tl included, have been too ungrateful with what theyve received. i spoke about this in the gun thread too about how people nowadays dont know how to appreciate what they have; instead they have the audacity to ask for more.
meanwhile the people directly affected by all these scandals and the local community are pretty unanimous in that kespa has got everything right regarding how action should be taken against match fixers, and afreeca is just dragging their already shit reputation through the mud.
seems like a lot of foreign fans (not all, but evidently a lot) just want to watch their favourite players' streams regardless of the crime they committed without thought for what their actions are doing to the industry. its like a child crying and asking for his toy back because his mum is threatening to take it away.
I don't understand why not?
Their crime is properly punished.
Whether we watch their stream or not should be not enforced by anyone other than the viewers ourselves.
We are not watching them stream crime anyway.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50696 Posts
On October 21 2015 18:27 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:12 BLinD-RawR wrote:
afreeca should just comply with KeSPA's demands if only to just protect their brand.
this is getting absolutely ridiculous, people barely watch those who matchfixed and there are not that many of them to begin with, its not like afreeca is making any money off of them either, whichever way you look at it they are better off banning matchfixers.
I guess in this case I'm glad that Afreeca aren't the ones running the VANT Starleague. I disagree. In general, I don't think it's a good thing when one organization can force another to act as they want them to. In this case, on top of that, you can't punish people, convicted in the past, for a more recent crime committed by others. People are always so willing to add to the punishment criminals are already getting. Edit: I'd also like to add the following: Banning these people won't do anything against matchfixing. NOTHING. Please people, be more critical about false safety measures like these.
You're right in saying that KeSPA doesn't have the right to force afreeca into doing anything, and clearly afreeca knows that, and afreeca's reasoning behind declining their request is also extremely valid, but the BIG PROBLEM here is that Afreeca is not just a platform anymore, they are the people who are running the GSL, its now their tournament which means that they have to attract sponsors to back the GSL and how do you expect any sponsor to back the GSL when afreeca has no qualms about allowing the very people who have ruined the reputation of the Esport that they are supporting use their platform.
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On October 21 2015 18:49 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i definitely agree with orlok
i feel a lot of foreign people, members of tl included, have been too ungrateful with what theyve received. i spoke about this in the gun thread too about how people nowadays dont know how to appreciate what they have; instead they have the audacity to ask for more.
meanwhile the people directly affected by all these scandals and the local community are pretty unanimous in that kespa has got everything right regarding how action should be taken against match fixers, and afreeca is just dragging their already shit reputation through the mud.
seems like a lot of foreign fans (not all, but evidently a lot) just want to watch their favourite players' streams regardless of the crime they committed without thought for what their actions are doing to the industry. its like a child crying and asking for his toy back because his mum is threatening to take it away. I don't understand why not? Their crime is properly punished. Whether we watch their stream or not should be not enforced by anyone other than the viewers ourselves. We are not watching them stream crime anyway.
because their crime exceeds past simple match throwing and gambling. their actions directly affect the sustainability of a whole industry. thats millions of dollars invested from multiple businesses, hundreds of jobs and in koreas case, a huge hit to its unique culture, a hit to the tourism industry, and probably another list of things i cant think of off the top of my head right now
this isnt just about getting revenge on people who threw matches. its about protecting the livelihood of so many people who are reliant on the industry to feed themselves. why do people not understand this?
the match fixing scandals arent just scandals because they are illegal. the gravity of these actions are so god damn massive that there are literally lives at stake
as long as there is incentive for match fixing to occur, the industry wont survive. one or two more scandals and you will see major sponsors pull out once again and we will have a repeat of brood war.
thats why kespa is pulling this move, because if they succeed they massively reduce the incentive to match fix. you let everyone know that if they try and get caught, they wont be eating breakfast unless they get a job in a completely different field, which for most of these players is practically impossible
On October 21 2015 18:38 TJ31 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:
seems like a lot of foreign fans (not all, but evidently a lot) just want to watch their favourite players' streams regardless of the crime they committed without thought for what their actions are doing to the industry. its like a child crying and asking for his toy back because his mum is threatening to take it away. And I believe it's normal. There's not that many "hardcore" esports enthusiasts around. Most just consider it as a good way to waste free time while they find it fun enough, then they move on to something else. And while I personally don't care enough simply because I almost don't follow SC anymore, I'm happy someone finally gave Kespa middle finger. They are relic of the past and their ways always were terrible in my opinion and this time it shows up again. Not saying that the afreeca is much better, but at least they don't try to dictate their rules to other companies, as far as I know at least.
this post just backs everything i said about how some fans are just straight up selfish and ignorant.
"who cares about the people who actually make a living off this industry, i dont give a shit what happens as long as i have some entertainment during my 30mins free time"
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On October 21 2015 18:57 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:27 Penev wrote:On October 21 2015 18:12 BLinD-RawR wrote:
afreeca should just comply with KeSPA's demands if only to just protect their brand.
this is getting absolutely ridiculous, people barely watch those who matchfixed and there are not that many of them to begin with, its not like afreeca is making any money off of them either, whichever way you look at it they are better off banning matchfixers.
I guess in this case I'm glad that Afreeca aren't the ones running the VANT Starleague. I disagree. In general, I don't think it's a good thing when one organization can force another to act as they want them to. In this case, on top of that, you can't punish people, convicted in the past, for a more recent crime committed by others. People are always so willing to add to the punishment criminals are already getting. Edit: I'd also like to add the following: Banning these people won't do anything against matchfixing. NOTHING. Please people, be more critical about false safety measures like these. You're right in saying that KeSPA doesn't have the right to force afreeca into doing anything, and clearly afreeca knows that, and afreeca's reasoning behind declining their request is also extremely valid, but the BIG PROBLEM here is that Afreeca is not just a platform anymore, they are the people who are running the GSL, its now their tournament which means that they have to attract sponsors to back the GSL and how do you expect any sponsor to back the GSL when afreeca has no qualms about allowing the very people who have ruined the reputation of the Esport that they are supporting use their platform.
I agree that acquiring GSL has put Afreeca in a very difficult spot and I would understand if they did ban the matchfixers but I'd rather have them not because banning them now, after having been allowed to stream for so long would mean the'd get punished again for a crime now committed by others. Enough is enough.
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must be a cultural thing,or the people posting are just 13.yo,orlok calling criminals a bunch of kids that just follow the order of his head coach that is the one taking care of them is just retarded,kespa asking to ban 2010 matchfixers from afreeca is retarded,and is just looking for conflict,is pretty clear,now. in the first place kespa doesnt allow their players to stream on afreeca right ? so afterall they are just b*tching...
about the new matchfixers is not like many people give a f*ck about them... and u can be pretty sure in the moment they will try to stream the viewers will give lot of sh*t to them.
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On October 21 2015 18:58 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:49 ETisME wrote:On October 21 2015 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i definitely agree with orlok
i feel a lot of foreign people, members of tl included, have been too ungrateful with what theyve received. i spoke about this in the gun thread too about how people nowadays dont know how to appreciate what they have; instead they have the audacity to ask for more.
meanwhile the people directly affected by all these scandals and the local community are pretty unanimous in that kespa has got everything right regarding how action should be taken against match fixers, and afreeca is just dragging their already shit reputation through the mud.
seems like a lot of foreign fans (not all, but evidently a lot) just want to watch their favourite players' streams regardless of the crime they committed without thought for what their actions are doing to the industry. its like a child crying and asking for his toy back because his mum is threatening to take it away. I don't understand why not? Their crime is properly punished. Whether we watch their stream or not should be not enforced by anyone other than the viewers ourselves. We are not watching them stream crime anyway. because their crime exceeds past simple match throwing and gambling. their actions directly affect the sustainability of a whole industry. thats millions of dollars invested from multiple businesses, hundreds of jobs and in koreas case, a huge hit to its unique culture, a hit to the tourism industry, and probably another list of things i cant think of off the top of my head right now this isnt just about getting revenge on people who threw matches. its about protecting the livelihood of so many people who are reliant on the industry to feed themselves. why do people not understand this? the match fixing scandals arent just scandals because they are illegal. the gravity of these actions are so god damn massive that there are literally lives at stake as long as there is incentive for match fixing to occur, the industry wont survive. one or two more scandals and you will see major sponsors pull out once again and we will have a repeat of brood war. thats why kespa is pulling this move, because if they succeed they massively reduce the incentive to match fix. you let everyone know that if they try and get caught, they wont be eating breakfast unless they get a job in a completely different field, which for most of these players is practically impossible Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:38 TJ31 wrote:On October 21 2015 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:
seems like a lot of foreign fans (not all, but evidently a lot) just want to watch their favourite players' streams regardless of the crime they committed without thought for what their actions are doing to the industry. its like a child crying and asking for his toy back because his mum is threatening to take it away. And I believe it's normal. There's not that many "hardcore" esports enthusiasts around. Most just consider it as a good way to waste free time while they find it fun enough, then they move on to something else. And while I personally don't care enough simply because I almost don't follow SC anymore, I'm happy someone finally gave Kespa middle finger. They are relic of the past and their ways always were terrible in my opinion and this time it shows up again. Not saying that the afreeca is much better, but at least they don't try to dictate their rules to other companies, as far as I know at least. this post just backs everything i said about how some fans are just straight up selfish and ignorant. "who cares about the people who actually make a living off this industry, i dont give a shit what happens as long as i have some entertainment during my 30mins free time"
I don't see how that is related to streaming at all.
Firstly, you are acting as if the consequences of the crime are not punished and you would rather to have more.
Secondly, it is not like they have to use Afreeca to stream if they wanted to.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50696 Posts
On October 21 2015 19:06 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:57 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 21 2015 18:27 Penev wrote:On October 21 2015 18:12 BLinD-RawR wrote:
afreeca should just comply with KeSPA's demands if only to just protect their brand.
this is getting absolutely ridiculous, people barely watch those who matchfixed and there are not that many of them to begin with, its not like afreeca is making any money off of them either, whichever way you look at it they are better off banning matchfixers.
I guess in this case I'm glad that Afreeca aren't the ones running the VANT Starleague. I disagree. In general, I don't think it's a good thing when one organization can force another to act as they want them to. In this case, on top of that, you can't punish people, convicted in the past, for a more recent crime committed by others. People are always so willing to add to the punishment criminals are already getting. Edit: I'd also like to add the following: Banning these people won't do anything against matchfixing. NOTHING. Please people, be more critical about false safety measures like these. You're right in saying that KeSPA doesn't have the right to force afreeca into doing anything, and clearly afreeca knows that, and afreeca's reasoning behind declining their request is also extremely valid, but the BIG PROBLEM here is that Afreeca is not just a platform anymore, they are the people who are running the GSL, its now their tournament which means that they have to attract sponsors to back the GSL and how do you expect any sponsor to back the GSL when afreeca has no qualms about allowing the very people who have ruined the reputation of the Esport that they are supporting use their platform. I agree that acquiring GSL has put Afreeca in a very difficult spot and I would understand if they did ban the matchfixers but I'd rather have them not because banning them now, after having been allowed to stream for so long would mean the'd get punished again for a crime now committed by others. Enough is enough.
they barely stream anyway, its not really punishing them anymore, in fact all of them have either quit or abandoned their accounts anyway.
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On October 21 2015 18:58 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:49 ETisME wrote:On October 21 2015 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i definitely agree with orlok
i feel a lot of foreign people, members of tl included, have been too ungrateful with what theyve received. i spoke about this in the gun thread too about how people nowadays dont know how to appreciate what they have; instead they have the audacity to ask for more.
meanwhile the people directly affected by all these scandals and the local community are pretty unanimous in that kespa has got everything right regarding how action should be taken against match fixers, and afreeca is just dragging their already shit reputation through the mud.
seems like a lot of foreign fans (not all, but evidently a lot) just want to watch their favourite players' streams regardless of the crime they committed without thought for what their actions are doing to the industry. its like a child crying and asking for his toy back because his mum is threatening to take it away. I don't understand why not? Their crime is properly punished. Whether we watch their stream or not should be not enforced by anyone other than the viewers ourselves. We are not watching them stream crime anyway. because their crime exceeds past simple match throwing and gambling. their actions directly affect the sustainability of a whole industry. thats millions of dollars invested from multiple businesses, hundreds of jobs and in koreas case, a huge hit to its unique culture, a hit to the tourism industry, and probably another list of things i cant think of off the top of my head right now this isnt just about getting revenge on people who threw matches. its about protecting the livelihood of so many people who are reliant on the industry to feed themselves. why do people not understand this? the match fixing scandals arent just scandals because they are illegal. the gravity of these actions are so god damn massive that there are literally lives at stake as long as there is incentive for match fixing to occur, the industry wont survive. one or two more scandals and you will see major sponsors pull out once again and we will have a repeat of brood war. thats why kespa is pulling this move, because if they succeed they massively reduce the incentive to match fix. you let everyone know that if they try and get caught, they wont be eating breakfast unless they get a job in a completely different field, which for most of these players is practically impossible Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:38 TJ31 wrote:On October 21 2015 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:
seems like a lot of foreign fans (not all, but evidently a lot) just want to watch their favourite players' streams regardless of the crime they committed without thought for what their actions are doing to the industry. its like a child crying and asking for his toy back because his mum is threatening to take it away. And I believe it's normal. There's not that many "hardcore" esports enthusiasts around. Most just consider it as a good way to waste free time while they find it fun enough, then they move on to something else. And while I personally don't care enough simply because I almost don't follow SC anymore, I'm happy someone finally gave Kespa middle finger. They are relic of the past and their ways always were terrible in my opinion and this time it shows up again. Not saying that the afreeca is much better, but at least they don't try to dictate their rules to other companies, as far as I know at least. this post just backs everything i said about how some fans are just straight up selfish and ignorant. "who cares about the people who actually make a living off this industry, i dont give a shit what happens as long as i have some entertainment during my 30mins free time"
Don't be absurd. The ability to continue streaming on afreeca is not an incentive to matchfix. Players aren't being asked to matchfix and going 'oh gee I don't know, will I be able to stream on afreeca if I get caught?'
The people responsible are going to jail and serving their sentences, if the sentence doesn't fit the crime that is the problem of the judicial system NOT afreeca.
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On October 21 2015 19:07 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
must be a cultural thing,or the people posting are just 13.yo,orlok calling criminals a bunch of kids that just follow the order of his head coach that is the one taking care of them is just retarded,kespa asking to ban 2010 matchfixers from afreeca is retarded,and is just looking for conflict,is pretty clear,now. in the first place kespa doesnt allow their players to stream on afreeca right ? so afterall they are just b*tching...
lol every time i see you post on a thread related to this your posts have reeked of ignorance
the match fixers arent children, theyre goddamn adults. they made a decision for themselves
or are you saying that if someone mugged someone because you told them to, they wouldnt be a criminal either?
as for kespas asking for the bans, well i think ive said enough on this on numerous threads already
On October 21 2015 19:11 xccam wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 18:58 evilfatsh1t wrote:On October 21 2015 18:49 ETisME wrote:On October 21 2015 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i definitely agree with orlok
i feel a lot of foreign people, members of tl included, have been too ungrateful with what theyve received. i spoke about this in the gun thread too about how people nowadays dont know how to appreciate what they have; instead they have the audacity to ask for more.
meanwhile the people directly affected by all these scandals and the local community are pretty unanimous in that kespa has got everything right regarding how action should be taken against match fixers, and afreeca is just dragging their already shit reputation through the mud.
seems like a lot of foreign fans (not all, but evidently a lot) just want to watch their favourite players' streams regardless of the crime they committed without thought for what their actions are doing to the industry. its like a child crying and asking for his toy back because his mum is threatening to take it away. I don't understand why not? Their crime is properly punished. Whether we watch their stream or not should be not enforced by anyone other than the viewers ourselves. We are not watching them stream crime anyway. because their crime exceeds past simple match throwing and gambling. their actions directly affect the sustainability of a whole industry. thats millions of dollars invested from multiple businesses, hundreds of jobs and in koreas case, a huge hit to its unique culture, a hit to the tourism industry, and probably another list of things i cant think of off the top of my head right now this isnt just about getting revenge on people who threw matches. its about protecting the livelihood of so many people who are reliant on the industry to feed themselves. why do people not understand this? the match fixing scandals arent just scandals because they are illegal. the gravity of these actions are so god damn massive that there are literally lives at stake as long as there is incentive for match fixing to occur, the industry wont survive. one or two more scandals and you will see major sponsors pull out once again and we will have a repeat of brood war. thats why kespa is pulling this move, because if they succeed they massively reduce the incentive to match fix. you let everyone know that if they try and get caught, they wont be eating breakfast unless they get a job in a completely different field, which for most of these players is practically impossible On October 21 2015 18:38 TJ31 wrote:On October 21 2015 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:
seems like a lot of foreign fans (not all, but evidently a lot) just want to watch their favourite players' streams regardless of the crime they committed without thought for what their actions are doing to the industry. its like a child crying and asking for his toy back because his mum is threatening to take it away. And I believe it's normal. There's not that many "hardcore" esports enthusiasts around. Most just consider it as a good way to waste free time while they find it fun enough, then they move on to something else. And while I personally don't care enough simply because I almost don't follow SC anymore, I'm happy someone finally gave Kespa middle finger. They are relic of the past and their ways always were terrible in my opinion and this time it shows up again. Not saying that the afreeca is much better, but at least they don't try to dictate their rules to other companies, as far as I know at least. this post just backs everything i said about how some fans are just straight up selfish and ignorant. "who cares about the people who actually make a living off this industry, i dont give a shit what happens as long as i have some entertainment during my 30mins free time" Don't be absurd. The ability to continue streaming on afreeca is not an incentive to matchfix. Players aren't being asked to matchfix and going 'oh gee I don't know, will I be able to stream on afreeca if I get caught?' The people responsible are going to jail and serving their sentences, if the sentence doesn't fit the crime that is the problem of the judicial system NOT afreeca.
yeah there is a problem with the judicial system, however it is either too late to fix or its too troublesome to fix.
did savior serve any time in jail? no
did hwasin serve any time in jail? no
did anyone else from the first scandal serve time in jail? no
NONE OF THEM got jail time
what makes you think a court is going to rule for actual jail time on this occasion when the defendants' lawyers are going to be looking at savior and hwasin's case for precedent and ask for suspended sentences.
the court fucked up by giving such lenient sentences the very first time this happened. they could break precedent this time but i doubt it will happen. so what happens when everyone involved this time gets suspended sentences again?
oh look theyre streaming on afreeca
if the above does happen, then you can bet in the back of a lot of peoples' minds they will be thinking that match fixing does not have a severe punishment which leads to people once again being tempted into throwing games later on.
people wont think "oh gee I don't know, will I be able to stream on afreeca if I get caught?", its gonna be "will i be able to have a normal life even if i get caught? i guess i could still make money on afreeca...."
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On October 21 2015 18:58 evilfatsh1t wrote:
this post just backs everything i said about how some fans are just straight up selfish and ignorant.
"who cares about the people who actually make a living off this industry, i dont give a shit what happens as long as i have some entertainment during my 30mins free time"
People use a lot of industries and their products all the time. Food, cars, all kinds of entertainment (music, TV, movies, games, web related services and such), transport and such.
For instance there's often some strikes for all kinds of the airlines. Should people who just want to fly somewhere "care about the industry" because of that?
So yeah, don't expect your typical consumer to care enough, especially about something like this.
Besides, as said in many other threads, enough is enough. They are banned for life from being pro gamers, streaming SC or any other game has nothing to do with it anymore. But no, Kespa need blood, literally North Korea style.
Also streaming, even if it's the same game, /=/ same industry as progaming. They just share the same game, that's all.
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i dont expect everyone to care, but at the very least if you dont care and you are ignorant about how much a scandal like this affects the industry, you shouldnt be quick to flame kespa and take sides.
im not even gonna get into why streaming does have something to do with it anymore lol. ive said enough on this topic
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On October 21 2015 19:10 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 19:06 Penev wrote:On October 21 2015 18:57 BLinD-RawR wrote:On October 21 2015 18:27 Penev wrote:On October 21 2015 18:12 BLinD-RawR wrote:
afreeca should just comply with KeSPA's demands if only to just protect their brand.
this is getting absolutely ridiculous, people barely watch those who matchfixed and there are not that many of them to begin with, its not like afreeca is making any money off of them either, whichever way you look at it they are better off banning matchfixers.
I guess in this case I'm glad that Afreeca aren't the ones running the VANT Starleague. I disagree. In general, I don't think it's a good thing when one organization can force another to act as they want them to. In this case, on top of that, you can't punish people, convicted in the past, for a more recent crime committed by others. People are always so willing to add to the punishment criminals are already getting. Edit: I'd also like to add the following: Banning these people won't do anything against matchfixing. NOTHING. Please people, be more critical about false safety measures like these. You're right in saying that KeSPA doesn't have the right to force afreeca into doing anything, and clearly afreeca knows that, and afreeca's reasoning behind declining their request is also extremely valid, but the BIG PROBLEM here is that Afreeca is not just a platform anymore, they are the people who are running the GSL, its now their tournament which means that they have to attract sponsors to back the GSL and how do you expect any sponsor to back the GSL when afreeca has no qualms about allowing the very people who have ruined the reputation of the Esport that they are supporting use their platform. I agree that acquiring GSL has put Afreeca in a very difficult spot and I would understand if they did ban the matchfixers but I'd rather have them not because banning them now, after having been allowed to stream for so long would mean the'd get punished again for a crime now committed by others. Enough is enough. they barely stream anyway, its not really punishing them anymore, in fact all of them have either quit or abandoned their accounts anyway.
It's about the principle. Anyway, let's just wait if Afreeca can organize a properly sponsored GSL, if they cannot and they think it's because the matchfixers my guess is they ban them still. Would be difficult to explain to the public though.
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On October 21 2015 19:19 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i dont expect everyone to care, but at the very least if you dont care and you are ignorant about how much a scandal like this affects the industry, you shouldnt be quick to flame kespa and take sides.
im not even gonna get into why streaming does have something to do with it anymore lol. ive said enough on this topic
It's not even about how much it affects the industry, everyone knows it damages the credibility.
But the scandal is not CHEATERS streaming on X platform, the scandal is CHEATING in match.
Cheaters streaming at worst they can do is just to getting view bots.
How damaging is it? It's not like every other streamers cannot do this already,
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On October 21 2015 19:23 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 19:19 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i dont expect everyone to care, but at the very least if you dont care and you are ignorant about how much a scandal like this affects the industry, you shouldnt be quick to flame kespa and take sides.
im not even gonna get into why streaming does have something to do with it anymore lol. ive said enough on this topic It's not even about how much it affects the industry, everyone knows it damages the credibility. But the scandal is not CHEATERS streaming on X platform, the scandal is CHEATING in match. Cheaters streaming at worst they can do is just to getting view bots. How damaging is it? It's not like every other streamers cannot do this already,
Nah mate, you clearly don't understand that everyone who ever cheated once in his/her life must be hanged with his/her own intestines on the public square.
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On October 21 2015 19:12 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 19:07 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
must be a cultural thing,or the people posting are just 13.yo,orlok calling criminals a bunch of kids that just follow the order of his head coach that is the one taking care of them is just retarded,kespa asking to ban 2010 matchfixers from afreeca is retarded,and is just looking for conflict,is pretty clear,now. in the first place kespa doesnt allow their players to stream on afreeca right ? so afterall they are just b*tching... lol every time i see you post on a thread related to this your posts have reeked of ignorance the match fixers arent children, theyre goddamn adults. they made a decision for themselves or are you saying that if someone mugged someone because you told them to, they wouldnt be a criminal either? as for kespas asking for the bans, well i think ive said enough on this on numerous threads already Show nested quote +On October 21 2015 19:11 xccam wrote:On October 21 2015 18:58 evilfatsh1t wrote:On October 21 2015 18:49 ETisME wrote:On October 21 2015 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:
i definitely agree with orlok
i feel a lot of foreign people, members of tl included, have been too ungrateful with what theyve received. i spoke about this in the gun thread too about how people nowadays dont know how to appreciate what they have; instead they have the audacity to ask for more.
meanwhile the people directly affected by all these scandals and the local community are pretty unanimous in that kespa has got everything right regarding how action should be taken against match fixers, and afreeca is just dragging their already shit reputation through the mud.
seems like a lot of foreign fans (not all, but evidently a lot) just want to watch their favourite players' streams regardless of the crime they committed without thought for what their actions are doing to the industry. its like a child crying and asking for his toy back because his mum is threatening to take it away. I don't understand why not? Their crime is properly punished. Whether we watch their stream or not should be not enforced by anyone other than the viewers ourselves. We are not watching them stream crime anyway. because their crime exceeds past simple match throwing and gambling. their actions directly affect the sustainability of a whole industry. thats millions of dollars invested from multiple businesses, hundreds of jobs and in koreas case, a huge hit to its unique culture, a hit to the tourism industry, and probably another list of things i cant think of off the top of my head right now this isnt just about getting revenge on people who threw matches. its about protecting the livelihood of so many people who are reliant on the industry to feed themselves. why do people not understand this? the match fixing scandals arent just scandals because they are illegal. the gravity of these actions are so god damn massive that there are literally lives at stake as long as there is incentive for match fixing to occur, the industry wont survive. one or two more scandals and you will see major sponsors pull out once again and we will have a repeat of brood war. thats why kespa is pulling this move, because if they succeed they massively reduce the incentive to match fix. you let everyone know that if they try and get caught, they wont be eating breakfast unless they get a job in a completely different field, which for most of these players is practically impossible On October 21 2015 18:38 TJ31 wrote:On October 21 2015 18:21 evilfatsh1t wrote:
seems like a lot of foreign fans (not all, but evidently a lot) just want to watch their favourite players' streams regardless of the crime they committed without thought for what their actions are doing to the industry. its like a child crying and asking for his toy back because his mum is threatening to take it away. And I believe it's normal. There's not that many "hardcore" esports enthusiasts around. Most just consider it as a good way to waste free time while they find it fun enough, then they move on to something else. And while I personally don't care enough simply because I almost don't follow SC anymore, I'm happy someone finally gave Kespa middle finger. They are relic of the past and their ways always were terrible in my opinion and this time it shows up again. Not saying that the afreeca is much better, but at least they don't try to dictate their rules to other companies, as far as I know at least. this post just backs everything i said about how some fans are just straight up selfish and ignorant. "who cares about the people who actually make a living off this industry, i dont give a shit what happens as long as i have some entertainment during my 30mins free time" Don't be absurd. The ability to continue streaming on afreeca is not an incentive to matchfix. Players aren't being asked to matchfix and going 'oh gee I don't know, will I be able to stream on afreeca if I get caught?' The people responsible are going to jail and serving their sentences, if the sentence doesn't fit the crime that is the problem of the judicial system NOT afreeca. yeah there is a problem with the judicial system, however it is either too late to fix or its too troublesome to fix. did savior serve any time in jail? no did hwasin serve any time in jail? no did anyone else from the first scandal serve time in jail? no NONE OF THEM got jail time what makes you think a court is going to rule for actual jail time on this occasion when the defendants' lawyers are going to be looking at savior and hwasin's case for precedent and ask for suspended sentences. the court fucked up by giving such lenient sentences the very first time this happened. they could break precedent this time but i doubt it will happen. so what happens when everyone involved this time gets suspended sentences again? oh look theyre streaming on afreeca if the above does happen, then you can bet in the back of a lot of peoples' minds they will be thinking that match fixing does not have a severe punishment which leads to people once again being tempted into throwing games later on. people wont think "oh gee I don't know, will I be able to stream on afreeca if I get caught?", its gonna be "will i be able to have a normal life even if i get caught? i guess i could still make money on afreeca...."
The courts will decide what punishment is fair or not for them. No need to take justice into our own hand and do even more. That's not how our system is supposed to work.
Matchfixing is also something that happens in any sport and being banned from streaming is hardly going to change anything in regards to that.
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Streaming is COMPLETELY unrelated to competitive esports so there is no point in banning them from things where they have done nothing wrong.
This is really going to far, there are banned for life from the thing where they cheated in there is no point in banning them from other aspects of life.
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When strong and top players boycott the 2016 S1 GSL, that will help all B-Teamers, low-performers and players who have their break out in the future.
Thus this will help more to prevent matchfixing then anything kespa did this year against it as it brings money to players who do not earn much at the moment for their time and youth invested.
Kespa allways says, they have the responsibility to protect "their players", for example as they did not send players to the "Destiny One" tournament, this was their argument, protect the players from "shady organisations".
But this year we saw how kespa failed extremly with protecting their players and how much they really care about them: They watched the whole year how players have been not payed by the organisation prime, they watched how prime organisation became more desperate in the hunt for sponsors and money and how their Headcoach dragged their non payed players into matchfixing. Kespa has never failed in their history more then this year with their player protection.
And now this organisation shouts out for Streaming-websites to turn off streams from matchfixer who fixed, got caught and got punished over 4 years ago? Why now? Why not 2 weeks earlier? 2 years? Because they want to show "we do something". But they literally do nothing. They watched how their league, the ProLeague gets more and more entangled with corruption and how more and more matchfixing became a part of it but instead of reacting, taking measures against it, they just did nothing. Yeah, they tried to clean out the corruption, to cure the sympton of a greater illness, but even here they could not cure everything, but only parts of the sympton. And with their hunt after ex-matchfixer, who stream, they showed how much they try to fight the downgoing reputation of the scene, but not what makes the scene losing the reputation.
These matchfixer from 4 years ago arent the problem at all, even they would attract 10.000s of viewers (which they dont do). They got caught, banned from all pro-events and a civil court as judged over them. Now, 4 years later, companys and organisations and certan parts of the scene want to judge over them again, ban them from touching the game on streams, just because the sickness of the system ProLeague became obvious again. Thats not okay and I am glad that Afreeca turned that call from kespa down.
And when people say "lifetime ban from everything SC related on the internet for ever", they just should watch 2018 Pyeongchang in SK: What will happen there? Hundrets of "ex-dopers" will be allowed to play there after they had penaltys over 1-2 years from all over the world and SK will be super happy to show them and get a good reputation from holding that event. Or just remember the "hero" Park Tae-Hwan. He got caught doping and winning olympics and just got a 18 month penalty. And SK wanted to send him to Rio (but he ist allowed to start for SK the next 3 years at least, theoretically he could start 2020 in tokio). Where is your lifetime ban for him? Is doping less heavy then match fixing? He betrayed. And he is not the only one from SK who got caught doping and got a just a small penalty.
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This is hilarious and I wonder how or if they will force Afreeca's hand. The way I see it Afreeca is the twitch of Korea with no comparable competitors, so they can really do whatever the hell they want. SC2 is not even that popular on their platform, so they'd have no real incentive to hang onto GSL if things go south. Losing GSL would hurt KeSPA more than Afreeca I'm pretty sure.
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guys
if lance armstrong wanted to post youtube videos of him riding a bicycle, would he be allowed to monetize it with google ads?
The answer is yes, he would, because broadcasting video has nothing to do with the tournaments he cheated.
The youtube comments and chat might be a cesspool of hate and accusation, but he would be allowed to upload vids.
At the end of the day committing a crime doesn't strip your freedom of speech. Korea has a very insular view, for korea by korea, do as korea does without heed of the world that is watching. We are in a globalized society where culture and tradition matter less than international standards.
But of course, Koreans won't see it that way, as evidenced by the crazy aggressive quotes.
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On October 21 2015 20:27 ArvickHero wrote:
This is hilarious and I wonder how or if they will force Afreeca's hand. The way I see it Afreeca is the twitch of Korea with no comparable competitors, so they can really do whatever the hell they want. SC2 is not even that popular on their platform, so they'd have no real incentive to hang onto GSL if things go south. Losing GSL would hurt KeSPA more than Afreeca I'm pretty sure.
Afreeca has alot to lose if it kills GSL, their share holders would not be so happy if Afreeca just spended alot of money on a brand name that ends up being worth nothing as no big name player is playing in it (as KeSPA will most likely not play in GSL or any other game if Afreeca starts a tournament of said game that KeSPA teams play atm if Afreeca doesn't follow their demand). Also them allowing match fixers could end up hurting the stock price due to putting the company in a bad light making those share holders even more unhappy.
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EPT
