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On May 08 2015 07:50 Swoopae wrote:
Just read the bit about the money being lost potentially on another soulkey match not the game 1 vs creator. That's interesting. Does anyone who speaks Korean have any info on which match specifically it was? Maybe Soulkey agreed to throw another match in the Kespa cup but got cold feet due to the Code A void and thats how the match fixer lost his money? Do we have any info on how the match fixer was caught and what led to his arrest?
Hopefully the truth will come out, we're on the right path now.
Hopefully Kespa will also answer some of my questions from the first post I made in thread. This isn't just about Soulkey, 5 players had matches voided and if one of them had contact with match fixers in any capacity surely Kespa and/or the police should investigate whether any of the others have any ties to the alleged match fixer who is in jail now
At this point I think we just need to ask questions about how the investigation is being conducted and just ensure it is being conducted in a manner that will lead to any match fixing actually being exposed
Apparently the broker called the police when he was held against his will by angry bettors. KeSPA just needed to make a statement because it was SC2 related/ SK was involved. Hopefully KeSPA is indeed conducting a thorough investigation but this first statement doesn't bode too well imo..
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Fascinating situation. Sounds like a situation where Soulkey had agreed to throw a game and reneged (whether it was his first time agreeing to throw a game or not is another matter, and seems unlikely given the void he was involved in fairly recently)
If he reneged on an agreement to throw a match (without such an agreement how would this situation arise) then it seems likely that's because of the microscope that match fixing is under, especially given Soulkey was involved in one of the suspicious matches recently. If the reneged upon agreement was at the Kespa cup as rumoured (source, anyone?), the match in question should either be the series against Parting or more likely Map 1 against Parting.
I assume between the broker and the bettors they would have access to a pretty extensive list of fixed matches if this wasn't a first time thing for them, and if the bettors turned on the broker, one side or the other should talk sooner or later. Hopefully the Korean police can cut someone on one side or the other a deal in exchange for evidence of which matches if any were fixed so that they can investigate properly and find both any players involved as well as the key figures in the match fixing side of things.
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On May 08 2015 08:50 Swoopae wrote:
Fascinating situation. Sounds like a situation where Soulkey had agreed to throw a game and reneged (whether it was his first time agreeing to throw a game or not is another matter, and seems unlikely given the void he was involved in fairly recently)
If he reneged on an agreement to throw a match (without such an agreement how would this situation arise) then it seems likely that's because of the microscope that match fixing is under, especially given Soulkey was involved in one of the suspicious matches recently. If the reneged upon agreement was at the Kespa cup as rumoured (source, anyone?), the match in question should either be the series against Parting or more likely Map 1 against Parting.
I assume between the broker and the bettors they would have access to a pretty extensive list of fixed matches if this wasn't a first time thing for them, and if the bettors turned on the broker, one side or the other should talk sooner or later. Hopefully the Korean police can cut someone on one side or the other a deal in exchange for evidence of which matches if any were fixed so that they can investigate properly and find both any players involved as well as the key figures in the match fixing side of things.
The quotes are saying that SK never agreed to throw this game. Is that possible? Would the "broker" have taken anyones money if he hadn't already gotten SK's agreement?
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Great so rather than acknowledge any wrongdoing on the players end they claim they arrested some of the brokers. So with this revelation does this mean all of this is behind kespa, the players and their teams? Doubtful since the collusion is pretty high up. Likely outcome a couple players have to play witness and maybe one or two big names goes down to end this since KESPA chose this strategy. Other possible outcome nobody hears anything else about this and they pick better actors for their match fixing? Maybe a mixture of both?
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On May 08 2015 09:05 Popkiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 08:50 Swoopae wrote:
Fascinating situation. Sounds like a situation where Soulkey had agreed to throw a game and reneged (whether it was his first time agreeing to throw a game or not is another matter, and seems unlikely given the void he was involved in fairly recently)
If he reneged on an agreement to throw a match (without such an agreement how would this situation arise) then it seems likely that's because of the microscope that match fixing is under, especially given Soulkey was involved in one of the suspicious matches recently. If the reneged upon agreement was at the Kespa cup as rumoured (source, anyone?), the match in question should either be the series against Parting or more likely Map 1 against Parting.
I assume between the broker and the bettors they would have access to a pretty extensive list of fixed matches if this wasn't a first time thing for them, and if the bettors turned on the broker, one side or the other should talk sooner or later. Hopefully the Korean police can cut someone on one side or the other a deal in exchange for evidence of which matches if any were fixed so that they can investigate properly and find both any players involved as well as the key figures in the match fixing side of things.
The quotes are saying that SK never agreed to throw this game. Is that possible? Would the "broker" have taken anyones money if he hadn't already gotten SK's agreement?
Maybe he did agree and decided to screw over the broker? Why not? What is the worse scenario that can happen if this were to ever go to to trial? Everyone laughs at the broker as he goes to prison with Soulkey waving bye to him?
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I don't see why people would assume MK was match fixing. Unless he's been doing it in every single pro match he's played over the last 3 years. He's made super chobo mistakes to lose matches since HotS was released...
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On May 08 2015 10:09 ClaudeSc2 wrote:
I don't see why people would assume MK was match fixing. Unless he's been doing it in every single pro match he's played over the last 3 years. He's made super chobo mistakes to lose matches since HotS was released...
Maybe you should watch the game? 
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On May 08 2015 10:09 ClaudeSc2 wrote:
I don't see why people would assume MK was match fixing. Unless he's been doing it in every single pro match he's played over the last 3 years. He's made super chobo mistakes to lose matches since HotS was released...
You're saying that like we don't have any base for the argument.
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On May 08 2015 06:51 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 06:45 argonautdice wrote:On May 08 2015 06:23 Dodgin wrote:On May 08 2015 06:12 padiseal2 wrote:On May 08 2015 02:31 ThePacifist wrote:You guys need to know why KeSPA released such statement. It's not about MKP. There was an incident about Soulkey today. http://sports.news.naver.com/sports/index.nhn?category=e_sports&ctg=news&mod=read&office_id=382&article_id=0000350211&date=20150507&page=1 (Korean) So this is the article from Sports Donga claims that Soulkey is suspected of involving into match fixing which made the KeSPA to release their statement and also made me(perhaps all sc2 fans) shock. And after more articles released with KeSPA's statement which say the article from Sports Donga has wrong information. They say 'Soulkey didn't accept the offer. It's a confinement case between a broker and investors.'. Here's the one of them : http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/view.php?ud=2015050719452620500 (Korean) So let me summarise the case revealed until now, A Korean betting broker offered to Soulkey for a match fixing. -> Soulkey refused to the offer. -> Investors detained the broker after lost their investment(I'm not sure how they lost their money.) -> The broker felt threatened and asked the police for help -> The police launched an investigation and questioned Soulkey as a witness.(Maybe this is the part where the reporter from Sports Donga wrote the article.) -> After the article, KeSPA released the statement to argue with it. So the statement is not about MKP's case. I don't know MKP did such that horrible thing but i just want to say that why KeSPA released the statement today is not to cover what MKP did. It's about Soulkey. If there's grammatical error, I apologise for that. My English isn't good enough. Why would Kespa throw an investigation and release a statement about a player like Soulkey? He's neither on a Kespa team nor did the allegations concern S2SL or SPL The match was in kespa cup where does it say the match was in kespa cup? Wasn't Creator vs Soulkey in GSL Code A? Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 02:41 ThePacifist wrote:On May 08 2015 02:32 DJHelium wrote:On May 08 2015 02:31 ThePacifist wrote:You guys need to know why KeSPA released such statement. It's not about MKP. There was an incident about Soulkey today. http://sports.news.naver.com/sports/index.nhn?category=e_sports&ctg=news&mod=read&office_id=382&article_id=0000350211&date=20150507&page=1 (Korean) So this is the article from Sports Donga claims that Soulkey is suspected of involving into match fixing which made the KeSPA to release their statement and also made me(perhaps all sc2 fans) shock. And after more articles released with KeSPA's statement which say the article from Sports Donga has wrong information. They say 'Soulkey didn't accept the offer. It's a confinement case between a broker and investors.'. Here's the one of them : http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/view.php?ud=2015050719452620500 (Korean) So let me summarise the case revealed until now, A Korean betting broker offered to Soulkey for a match fixing. -> Soulkey refused to the offer. -> Investors detained the broker after lost their investment(I'm not sure how they lost their money.) -> The broker felt threatened and asked the police for help -> The police launched an investigation and questioned Soulkey as a witness.(Maybe this is the part where the reporter from Sports Donga wrote the article.) -> After the article, KeSPA released the statement to argue with it. So the statement is not about MKP's case. I don't know MKP did such that horrible thing but i just want to say that why KeSPA released the statement today is not to cover what MKP did. It's about Soulkey. If there's grammatical error, I apologise for that. My English isn't good enough. Is this about Soulkey vs Creator game 1 or another Soulkey game? Thanks for the clarification. I'm not sure which match was offered but according to a rumour between korean communities, it's a match of the KeSPA Cup. It's a rumour
OK, I posted it was a rumour because i couldn't find where it came out from. But i found the source, It seems is the truth.
Source : http://m.gameshot.net/common/con_view.php?code=GA554b2e40e08a9 (Korean)
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On May 08 2015 09:14 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 09:05 Popkiller wrote:On May 08 2015 08:50 Swoopae wrote:
Fascinating situation. Sounds like a situation where Soulkey had agreed to throw a game and reneged (whether it was his first time agreeing to throw a game or not is another matter, and seems unlikely given the void he was involved in fairly recently)
If he reneged on an agreement to throw a match (without such an agreement how would this situation arise) then it seems likely that's because of the microscope that match fixing is under, especially given Soulkey was involved in one of the suspicious matches recently. If the reneged upon agreement was at the Kespa cup as rumoured (source, anyone?), the match in question should either be the series against Parting or more likely Map 1 against Parting.
I assume between the broker and the bettors they would have access to a pretty extensive list of fixed matches if this wasn't a first time thing for them, and if the bettors turned on the broker, one side or the other should talk sooner or later. Hopefully the Korean police can cut someone on one side or the other a deal in exchange for evidence of which matches if any were fixed so that they can investigate properly and find both any players involved as well as the key figures in the match fixing side of things.
The quotes are saying that SK never agreed to throw this game. Is that possible? Would the "broker" have taken anyones money if he hadn't already gotten SK's agreement? Maybe he did agree and decided to screw over the broker? Why not? What is the worse scenario that can happen if this were to ever go to to trial? Everyone laughs at the broker as he goes to prison with Soulkey waving bye to him?
The worst scenario? Soulkey dead in an ally for screwing with a betting syndicate.
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Yeah... not buying it KESPA
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On May 08 2015 10:09 ClaudeSc2 wrote:
I don't see why people would assume MK was match fixing. Unless he's been doing it in every single pro match he's played over the last 3 years. He's made super chobo mistakes to lose matches since HotS was released...
We've discussed this so much. He didn't make a "chobo mistake", he deliberately choose not to react what he was scouting (no hatch, late gas+pool). I've watched thousands of games of pro Starcraft and I've NEVER seen a pro do something like that. It just doesn't happen. This is way way worse than just missing something on the minimap or leaving depots down etc.
Combine this with the betting patterns and the chances of Marineking not matchfixing are minimal. MVP said that they have proof of his innocence, but I say they are heavily biased. If they could release that info or let someone non-biased take a look at it then that would clear him imo.
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Good to see things coming out in the light, and great to hear that the police is involved! Still a long way to go ofc, and kespa seems to be vary careful, but that is no doubt the right choice for them at this point. Kespa can't really go out and say "Listen, we don't have any proof, but we are really convinced that these guys are match fixing, and we are doing what we can to track them down!". Probably it'd be illegal actually. So without solid proof, kespa (and MVP I guess) can't or at least shouldn't start accusing players.
I hope that the investigations continue and that they track down the brokers and players involved.
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On May 08 2015 18:12 Cascade wrote:
Good to see things coming out in the light, and great to hear that the police is involved! Still a long way to go ofc, and kespa seems to be vary careful, but that is no doubt the right choice for them at this point. Kespa can't really go out and say "Listen, we don't have any proof, but we are really convinced that these guys are match fixing, and we are doing what we can to track them down!". Probably it'd be illegal actually. So without solid proof, kespa (and MVP I guess) can't or at least shouldn't start accusing players.
I hope that the investigations continue and that they track down the brokers and players involved.
It's certainly possible KeSPA is conducting an investigation but this isn't really proof of that. If you read the information ThePacifist provided it seems that the police involvement isn't for match fixing but for people holding someone against his will (the broker) which is a more serious crime of course. It just happens that SK has been questioned as a witness.
The statement that KeSPA gave seems just the usual fluff to me (if it was properly translated).
- None of the players were involved in match fixing
Sure
- There has been attempts to fix matches, but the players who were approached by brokers rejected the offer, causing loss to the investors (in match fixing).
(Investors referring to people who pay the brokers and provide the money to pay the players for match fixing)
This isn't properly translated/ presented I think, it seems to adress just the aforementioned case.
- Incident has been reported to the police and some brokers/investors involved were jailed
Same as above
- KeSPA is stepping up their effort in taking down illegal betting websites to prevent further incidents, and also in protecting the players from these brokers
Hopefully but how exactly?
- Until the case has been fully resolved please do not make inappropriate accusations to players and cause harm to them
Which case?
- We will continue to communicate with the fans until the final decision is out and to prevent any future illegal acts.
Continue? :/
On May 07 2015 20:24 lichter wrote:
They've been taking the subject very seriously but they've been hesitant to make a statement. As you can imagine, ongoing investigations usually don't receive announcements because it can have an effect on the investigation.
However, KeSPA have been doing something, and they aren't keeping silent because they are just wishing it away. They are waiting for the right time to make an announcement.
I suppose this is as good a time as any to say that KeSPA have been very cooperative with me about answering questions about the situation. However, this new development means that they'd like to wait until they get more info on this new matter so that any such announcement can be up to date. You will all hear from KeSPA soon.
This is more like it though
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In my mind it went like this -
Broker - "Will you throw a game?"
SK - "Sure, 50 Million"
Broker - "There you go."
SK - "There you go, what?"
Broker - "I gave you the money, throw the game."
SK - "What money? Kappa"
Glad this is with the authorities and it's being treated as seriously. These guys are toxic and a cancer to professional gaming.
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On May 08 2015 09:14 Baarn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 08 2015 09:05 Popkiller wrote:On May 08 2015 08:50 Swoopae wrote:
Fascinating situation. Sounds like a situation where Soulkey had agreed to throw a game and reneged (whether it was his first time agreeing to throw a game or not is another matter, and seems unlikely given the void he was involved in fairly recently)
If he reneged on an agreement to throw a match (without such an agreement how would this situation arise) then it seems likely that's because of the microscope that match fixing is under, especially given Soulkey was involved in one of the suspicious matches recently. If the reneged upon agreement was at the Kespa cup as rumoured (source, anyone?), the match in question should either be the series against Parting or more likely Map 1 against Parting.
I assume between the broker and the bettors they would have access to a pretty extensive list of fixed matches if this wasn't a first time thing for them, and if the bettors turned on the broker, one side or the other should talk sooner or later. Hopefully the Korean police can cut someone on one side or the other a deal in exchange for evidence of which matches if any were fixed so that they can investigate properly and find both any players involved as well as the key figures in the match fixing side of things.
The quotes are saying that SK never agreed to throw this game. Is that possible? Would the "broker" have taken anyones money if he hadn't already gotten SK's agreement? Maybe he did agree and decided to screw over the broker? Why not? What is the worse scenario that can happen if this were to ever go to to trial? Everyone laughs at the broker as he goes to prison with Soulkey waving bye to him?
Or Soulkey actually loses.
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This isn't really "Kespa's official statement on matchfixing", it's "Kespa's official statement on a bizarre situation involving investors falsely imprisoning a broker over a Soulkey match". The REAL issue is the pattern of recent voided bets and suspicious matches, especially the MKP match. Kespa has still not addressed the real issue. And until Kespa has examined MKP's bank accounts and communications, Kespa has not investigated the issue.
I also find it hard to believe Soulkey is completely innocent, especially considering he was involved in a previous voided bet. Would these investors really just pay this broker without knowing if Soulkey had agreed? Where did the money go?
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*** isclaimer theorycrafting****
The investors paid the broker in advance for multiple matchfixes in specific matches. This is in line with other mentions of Swoopae being offered by online betters X amount of fixed matches per year for a lump sum of money. Following intense attention being paid to potential matchfixing due to voided online bets, Soulkey reneged, even though he had fixed at least one match earlier in the year. Since they couldn't get their money, the investors confined the broker, demanding money. The broker then called the police and spilled the beans.
Essentially, the issue spilled over to the police due to underground illegal behavior. Someone got caught, forcing the issue out into the open. A fairly predictable turn of events.
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Worth noting I can't confirm the legitimacy of the offer I received and it could have been a scam; but the offer I received via PM on another forum was 4 matches in a one year period for 2k. I wasn't able to get any further details from the guy who PM'd me.
It would be good if we could get a real statement from Kespa addressing the concerns about this statement I posted on page 3 of this thread. The odds that we see both this weird situation and a pile of voided matches due to suspected matchfixing in a short period of time and they both involve the same player and it's all a big coincidence and no match fixing is or has been taking place seems incredibly unlikely.
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Bovada just voided some bets on Gumiho vs Marineking. Gumiho won 3-0. Don't think it was match fixing.
Edit: apparently not voided. But they did close the lines early on this match and all sc2 lines for the rest of the weekend. Lame.
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EPT
