Greatest Players of All Time: Part 3 - Page 20

On April 26 2015 23:18 johnbongham wrote:
Why do I get the impression that this entire series of article is just to create controversy by putting life ahead of mvp.

On April 27 2015 03:39 Sir_Figs wrote:


The timing of the article (right after Life's latest GSL win) makes me think that Life will be #1. It seems like the article was waiting in the wings for Life to get that additional Korean win, which could arguably make him stand neck and neck with MVP. Which I have no problem with, as he's my favorite player =P... I did start watching from 2013 Blizzcon though so I have no sense of MVP's reign.

On April 27 2015 03:45 opisska wrote:


You have missed a great period. I have honestly also myself missed a lot of early GSLs (because of not having any idea I can watch it mostly), but I still remember the fantastic aura around Mvp. Never again I have seen a player who would be so clearly THE best in the game, period. Many players have reached "sooo good", but never the Mvp level.

When I first made this list and used the eye test, Taeja was actually much further down the list

There is a saying among the SC2 community called the Liquid Bias. It is the belief that the writers are inherently biased to Liquid players. Here is the truth: I have always tried to be biased against Taeja. I had put him below Zest in my first draft. But weight for weight, pound for pound, player for player, Taeja’s paths and achievements have constantly outshone things like prestige and preparation formats. My logic forced me kicking and screaming against this placing, but the hard facts remain. I spent tens of hours trying to find any excuse to put Taeja lower. I found none. Taeja’s volume of work is just too strong to ignore for arbitrary feelings like prestige. Now that I have thoroughly analyzed Taeja's entire career compared to the other greats of all time I finally understand what Coach Park meant when he said, “The hell kind of player was this?”

On April 27 2015 04:28 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I had to log in just to ask why the hate? I mean, seriously, in complete honesty, why? This has been discussed to death, back to life, and then back to death. TaeJa is #3 "Greatest of All Time" according to Stuchiu. No one else. This was a personal endeavor on his part to reveal who HE thought were the top 15 in the world since SC2. GSL or no GSL, TaeJa is a force to be reckoned with. When he was forced back to South Korea, everyone wanted a piece of him. And he has repeatedly beaten the best of the best. As was stated previously, he has a winning record over most of the people Stuchiu listed. Stuchiu also stated that he tried to put TaeJa lower, but couldn't justify it. You don't go 17-0 during a tournament run and get ranked last. You also don't play potentially game of the year matches every time you enter a booth, and be ranked last. Furthermore, you don't win 11 Premier tournaments regardless of the format, and be ranked last.

TaeJa earned his ranking through the sheer amount of work he has put in, the amount of wins he has, and the amount of times people have been at a loss for words to describe his play. You can make a case for Polt, Life, MVP, Zest, sOs, etc and clearly define what makes them great. You can't do that with TaeJa. He is truly a one of a kind player and barring a WCS/GSL trophy, he deserves the ranking he received.

Stuchiu, I read most of what you wrote and damn man, heart was fluttering. Wonderful writing and justification for each one. I went back and watched the matches you linked and remember exactly where I was when each was being played and how I felt about each one. Thank you.

On April 27 2015 04:28 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
I had to log in just to ask why the hate? I mean, seriously, in complete honesty, why? This has been discussed to death, back to life, and then back to death. TaeJa is #3 "Greatest of All Time" according to Stuchiu. No one else. This was a personal endeavor on his part to reveal who HE thought were the top 15 in the world since SC2. GSL or no GSL, TaeJa is a force to be reckoned with. When he was forced back to South Korea, everyone wanted a piece of him. And he has repeatedly beaten the best of the best. As was stated previously, he has a winning record over most of the people Stuchiu listed. Stuchiu also stated that he tried to put TaeJa lower, but couldn't justify it. You don't go 17-0 during a tournament run and get ranked last. You also don't play potentially game of the year matches every time you enter a booth, and be ranked last. Furthermore, you don't win 11 Premier tournaments regardless of the format, and be ranked last.

TaeJa earned his ranking through the sheer amount of work he has put in, the amount of wins he has, and the amount of times people have been at a loss for words to describe his play. You can make a case for Polt, Life, MVP, Zest, sOs, etc and clearly define what makes them great. You can't do that with TaeJa. He is truly a one of a kind player and barring a WCS/GSL trophy, he deserves the ranking he received.

Stuchiu, I read most of what you wrote and damn man, heart was fluttering. Wonderful writing and justification for each one. I went back and watched the matches you linked and remember exactly where I was when each was being played and how I felt about each one. Thank you.

EDIT: During one of his streams, I asked TaeJa what he thought of the list and he said that he and PartinG talked about it. No PartinG, no GG.

That's funny I remember games from MMA, MC, Mvp, Life, Parting, Innovation; games that made me think I LOVE STARCRAFT.
Yet I don't remember ONE game from Taeja that made me react that way.

On April 27 2015 02:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Really, Taeja at 3 -_______-'

Life and Mvp or Mvp and Life for #2 and #1 obviously.

On April 27 2015 04:00 Vaudevillain1 wrote:
I think this greatest players was really well done but feels narrow in scope. Are we just going to robotically judge achievements or also think about influence and style a little bit.

Couldn't you have thrown foreigners a bone and made Stephano #15? I think his run was pretty impressive, he even was defeating well known Korean pros and was the best hope Europe ever had IMO. Is Leenock really more influential and greater then Stephano?

You could add Huk at #15 as well. Remember Huk won every MLG until Koreans entered it, if it wasn't for Huk (also his Idra feud) North America would give zero shits about SC2 I think. After we discovered all the amazing Korean talent most people grew to love them more then foreigners but maybe Team Liquid could have just recognized that these guys were Europe and NA's hero.

To me more people will care passionately about Stephano or Huk then Leenock. No offense. Also sure in a NBA list 13 of the top 15 players will be black but at least Steve Nash and Larry Bird will be in there too. Seems like the haters of SC2 were dead on right when they ask 'why even watch SC2 when you know what country the winner will always be from' you could try to show hope to the foreigner scene but you won't even recognize it.

Maybe you just need to do a Best Foreigners ever list? That would be cool. All I can tell you is Stephano's run where he defeated Korean after Korean and most foreigners was my favorite time in Starcraft II.

I don't mean offense to any fan of Leenock but please just recognize I am only trying to advocate why a foreigner should have been included because I believe life is more then just how much trophies you've got.