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I dont see how people can complain about Taeja being in front of MC. Yes he has no korean title and this is the reason why he can never be placed in front of life or mvp, who both have massive achievments and korean titles. But while a Korean Title is an important achievment it does not outshine everything. Otherwise you would have to place someone like seed or sniper in front of Taeja, because they got a Korean titel. And I dont think anyone in their right mind would do that, because they have nothing else. So you have to weight Korean titles against other achievments.
MC won 2 GSLs but both of them where during a time when foreigners like Jinro could still make top 4. GSL was much less competitive at that time. MC made another final during the hard gsl times but which Taeja did not. But it is not like Taeja completely failed in GSL. He made 2 Top 4 finishes.
Taeja won eleven Premier titles, while MC only won 6. A lot of MCs titles where from the early, less competitive time of SC2, while Taejas titles are all from the years past 2012. Yes some of Taejas titles where against relativly weak competition. 3 of his titles are Homestory Cups. But MC was present at every single one of this Homestory Cups. In fact he went to every single Homestory Cup after the 3rd one and only won once. So you cannot say that Homestory cups are so easy, that they dont count, because MC would have won them all if he had been there, because he was there and he did not win. All of Taejas titles are from foreing tournaments, but MC is also a player who atendet lots of foreign torunaments and he only won 4. So you might say they are easy wins, but apperently they where to hard for MC.
And while some foreign Torurnaments have relativly easy competition other have not. How can Taejas DH Bukarest run in 2013 not be as impressiv as a 2010 GSL victory when he did not lose a map in the whole tournament and did beat life and Innovation in the process.
And while Taeja never won a WCS event either he made great runs in some of them, beating Rain and Innovation in their primes at the 2013 Season two Final or Soo and innovation at last Blizzcon.
Although it might sound like it I do not underestimate how hard it is to win a Korean Tournament. Players like Maru or Zest, who have much less titles than Taeja, have a good chance to be placed bevore him such a list in the future, if they continue to impress in Korea. But unless MC wins another GSL or SSL I dont see him infront of Taeja. Two pre 2012 GSL Titles just do not outway everything else.
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Northern Ireland27469 Posts
On April 26 2015 19:59 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 18:29 SpunXtain20 wrote:Would definitely like to see 16-25 included.  I'd only be willing to add 16-19. Those 4 players I felt did deserve to be talked about.
I would be super interested to see those myself
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On April 26 2015 18:58 VavPK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 18:36 NasusAndDraven wrote:
Now i want to see Greatest Players of All Time, no koreans edition. Something i would actually find interesting. That's ridiculous, why make a list of players who are okay but no where near the greatest? I don't understand why people do not find players "interesting" just because they are WAY better than others, the race is irrelevant. I found your post pretty racist actually. As for the list, I don't think Taeja should be on the top 10, maybe top 15. Just my opinion though!
The problem is not that koreans are better. The problem is that they are so shut in their own community. Not only is there the language barrier, but with the slight exception of MC none of these top 15 players actively communicate with the international community, atleast not publicly. The only good interviews you get from them is when they are directly talking to other koreans, so much more awkward from translators. And they would never come on their free time to express their feelings on tl.net unlike many forgeiner players.
Like if there was made a top 15 forgeiners list, most of those players would have directly talked to me over the internet. With koreans I can never connect the same way, because they do not want to, nor they could. It would be fine if there was this one "silent" guy, but its a problem when its literally everyone important.
I guess the same could be said about the russian community. Like even when bratOK was doing good i never cheered for him because he was not one of us, he was part of the russian community. Koreans are part of the korean community. And most of europe and NA the international community.
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On April 26 2015 18:45 Entropy137 wrote:
Don't agree with Taeja ahead of MC.
Neither do I, but it's fine. MC still has earned the most money in SC2 which must mean something. Not only that, but he also won the hardest Korean Tournament twice. Argueing that the players back then weren't as strong doesn't make his achievements worse.
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On April 26 2015 11:12 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 10:35 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On April 26 2015 08:54 stuchiu wrote:On April 26 2015 07:58 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On April 26 2015 07:19 Darkhorse wrote:On April 26 2015 07:18 Rocket-Bear wrote:On April 26 2015 07:15 Fuell wrote:
parting should really be ahead of leenock, mkp, rain It's an pretty objective list based on research. But clearly your 'feeling' should have more value dw about this guy he loves Parting and he thinks Life is a mediocre Korean Zerg  I don't love PartinG and I totally agree with him. Stuchiu is an excellent writer and clearly knows his shit, but PartinG at a minimum should be where Rain is imo. He's better than Rain in almost every category except for maybe innovation. Actually I rate Parting higher in innovation. It's his runs that hurt him. How? Rain has both of his OSL runs (1st and 2nd) but PartinG has a respectable 2nd in the recent GSL which is comparable to at least one OSL. Especially considering he took Life of all people to game 7 in the finals. Rain won WCS Asia, but PartinG got 2nd there and then won the WCS Global. Rain won the 2013 Hotsix cup, but PartinG got 2nd in the 2012 Blizzard Cup. Which had to be GOM's most rigorous end-of-the-year event what with having a bo3, round-robin group stage, AND it was dominated by Zergs with BL/infestor. As opposed to a ro8 4-day event that Rain won. Then there's the 2013 Global Championship where he narrowly lost 3-4 to Zest in the finals (he went through the qualifiers too). Rain's OSL win is still quite an advantage even considering all of the above, but surely PartinG makes up for the gap in having numerous wins/high placings abroad compared to Rain. == PartinG is also more consistent than Rain as well. Despite only about 8 months or so separating them in terms of their respective ascents to being relevant, PartinG has held up longer as a top-tier player. He has 7 ro8+ code S runs compared to Rain's 5. As well as the longest code S streak and he didn't get two code S seeds to put him on track like Rain did either. The WCG run is completely fraudulent.
he beat combatex in a bo3. no other player has achieved this at a international tournament
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On April 26 2015 20:47 Paljas wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 11:12 stuchiu wrote:On April 26 2015 10:35 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On April 26 2015 08:54 stuchiu wrote:On April 26 2015 07:58 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:On April 26 2015 07:19 Darkhorse wrote:On April 26 2015 07:18 Rocket-Bear wrote:On April 26 2015 07:15 Fuell wrote:
parting should really be ahead of leenock, mkp, rain It's an pretty objective list based on research. But clearly your 'feeling' should have more value dw about this guy he loves Parting and he thinks Life is a mediocre Korean Zerg I don't love PartinG and I totally agree with him. Stuchiu is an excellent writer and clearly knows his shit, but PartinG at a minimum should be where Rain is imo. He's better than Rain in almost every category except for maybe innovation. Actually I rate Parting higher in innovation. It's his runs that hurt him. How? Rain has both of his OSL runs (1st and 2nd) but PartinG has a respectable 2nd in the recent GSL which is comparable to at least one OSL. Especially considering he took Life of all people to game 7 in the finals. Rain won WCS Asia, but PartinG got 2nd there and then won the WCS Global. Rain won the 2013 Hotsix cup, but PartinG got 2nd in the 2012 Blizzard Cup. Which had to be GOM's most rigorous end-of-the-year event what with having a bo3, round-robin group stage, AND it was dominated by Zergs with BL/infestor. As opposed to a ro8 4-day event that Rain won. Then there's the 2013 Global Championship where he narrowly lost 3-4 to Zest in the finals (he went through the qualifiers too). Rain's OSL win is still quite an advantage even considering all of the above, but surely PartinG makes up for the gap in having numerous wins/high placings abroad compared to Rain. == PartinG is also more consistent than Rain as well. Despite only about 8 months or so separating them in terms of their respective ascents to being relevant, PartinG has held up longer as a top-tier player. He has 7 ro8+ code S runs compared to Rain's 5. As well as the longest code S streak and he didn't get two code S seeds to put him on track like Rain did either. The WCG run is completely fraudulent. he beat combatex in a bo3. no other player has achieved this at a international tournament
he also dropped a game to combatex in an international tournament :b
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That's funny I remember games from MMA, MC, Mvp, Life, Parting, Innovation; games that made me think I LOVE STARCRAFT.
Yet I don't remember ONE game from Taeja that made me react that way.
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i wonder about Stuchios reasoning here, the ranking seems totally random
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On April 26 2015 21:19 bypLy wrote:
i wonder about Stuchios reasoning here, the ranking seems totally random
i suggest you to read the whole thing
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On April 26 2015 21:09 YuiHirasawa wrote:
That's funny I remember games from MMA, MC, Mvp, Life, Parting, Innovation; games that made me think I LOVE STARCRAFT.
Yet I don't remember ONE game from Taeja that made me react that way.
Funny. Exactly how stuchiu wrote, there's nothing flashy about TaeJa's playstyle, nothing that makes him stand out, nothing that will catch your eye and make you love him, in contrast to all those players you listed. And still, at his best, none of them are much better than TaeJa. So he was always doing something right.
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Northern Ireland27469 Posts
At his peak Taeja had fearsome mechanics relative to his peers of the time, it's hard to retrospectively put your mind back to that period of the game and expunge the Kespa switchers from your mind but he was a monster.
IPLTac finals are still up there for me among the greatest Starcraft feats of all time
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How is Polt not #1 with collecting a total of half the blizzard championships?
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On April 26 2015 21:09 YuiHirasawa wrote:
That's funny I remember games from MMA, MC, Mvp, Life, Parting, Innovation; games that made me think I LOVE STARCRAFT.
Yet I don't remember ONE game from Taeja that made me react that way.
So TLO, SjoW, Fuzer, and Naama should also be ahead of Taeja?
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Y'all so salty. Makes me wonder why I thought SC community is better than Dota's. Great article. Tbh the only other player with such fearsome auras as TaeJa's were Life and MVP for me, so I guess I'm biased.
On April 26 2015 19:42 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2015 19:13 Whatson wrote:
I've watched everybody on the top ten list stomp their way through tournaments, and I'll say this; only Mvp and Life looked as invincible as Taeja during their runs. This was a guy who literally pre-emptive GGed two games in a row in a tournament because he knew he could win the next 3 in a row. He may not have won a GSL, but holy shit he made GSL ro4 players look like trash sometimes. Peak Bogus is still till this day the scariest period imo
As a TaeJa fan I'll say one thing...peak Life is out of this fucking world..
Since everyone is pulling stuff out their asses I'm gonna do it too and say that MC is overrated as fuck. Last time I was impressed with his play was in 2012.
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Not sure how Taeja beat MC here...
Looking at some of the criteria though I'd debate some of the Tier ratings really. IEM 2012 World Championship is Tier 3, really? Based on what? The players at it were arguably a lot better than most MLG's or NASL and the prize pool a lot higher than many of your Tier 2 (MLG Championships etc) and almost comparable with T1.
I simply put, just do not agree with the tier ratings here.
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On April 26 2015 21:09 YuiHirasawa wrote:
That's funny I remember games from MMA, MC, Mvp, Life, Parting, Innovation; games that made me think I LOVE STARCRAFT.
Yet I don't remember ONE game from Taeja that made me react that way.
You really need to go and rewatch Taeja vs Rain on Whirlwind from last year, then come back with your love of TvP rekindled.
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Why do I get the impression that this entire series of article is just to create controversy by putting life ahead of mvp.
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Mute City2363 Posts
On April 26 2015 21:09 YuiHirasawa wrote:
That's funny I remember games from MMA, MC, Mvp, Life, Parting, Innovation; games that made me think I LOVE STARCRAFT.
Yet I don't remember ONE game from Taeja that made me react that way.
The VOD archive is there for a reason...
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On April 26 2015 21:09 YuiHirasawa wrote:
That's funny I remember games from MMA, MC, Mvp, Life, Parting, Innovation; games that made me think I LOVE STARCRAFT.
Yet I don't remember ONE game from Taeja that made me react that way.
not that this metric means anything, but if you didn't like Taeja vs. Innovation on Newkirk in 2013 you're bad at watching starcraft.
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Where is my Taejaclap gif?
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EPT
