Terran MU stats since July 25th (widow mine patch) - Page 8

On December 01 2014 19:14 SatedSC2 wrote:

Do you have any evidence to back up that? If Chargelot/Archon (not even Templar?) was so strong then why were Colossi openings still so popular..?

On December 01 2014 18:54 maartendq wrote:

I agree with this methodology. All this stat gathering does not take skill disparity into account, and the skill disparity between foreigners and Koreans is huge right now. If Taeja were to beat five foreigner zerg players in a single tournament, it would skew the stats towards 'terran is OP' while arguably there isn't a single foreign zerg that even comes close to Taeja's level at the moment, including Snute. The situation is even worse for foreign Protoss players.

From a spectator's perspective, I don't mind Terran being a bit OP. They are the most fun to watch by a large margin because unlike Z and P, they cannot afford to turtle because they can neither match Zerg's economy and tech-switching ability, or Protoss' army strength. They have to be active and out on the map from the moment their first unit spawns.

On December 01 2014 19:58 ZenithM wrote:
I think it's time for the classic "buff some race in a very boring way to eSportS killing status and screw Terran in the process until the next expansion" event.
It's what happened with Zerg at the end of WoL, maybe Protoss this time to prepare for their expansion, that would make sense?
Maybe range 11 for the colossus? Or is that too déjà-vu? Maybe a +25 starting energy for templars then, that should do it.

Maybe range 11 for the colossus? Or is that too déjà-vu? Maybe a +25 starting energy for templars then, that should do it.

On December 01 2014 19:30 Clonester wrote:


You could play them on one gate till 9min.

Okay enough trolled.
As long as the Mappool does not change ( Eventused Mappool ), it is hard to say much about the Balance state: During other OP or weak times, we had at least 2 seasons (with 2 different pools) till balance issues were clear enough to adress.
With a new map and again a Season 1, where Terran dominates in facts of rates, events and race distribution, it has to be adressed. To adress anything now what is not the mappool, will lead to just a new mess. Yeah maybe a mess, where terran has to watch alot of ZPCraft again and Zerg and Protoss are happy again, but it will still be a mess.
Normally i would say the Offseason is the time for patching, but we had dreampool and this mappool is so worthless, that we cant conclude anythign from it ( and events dont use it anyway. )

And people who say "balance problems?", everything is fine: In such a game like SC, there will never be Balance, there can only be tried to ajust bits and bobs to get to a state near balance, but we will never see full balance between the races.
BW had never a balanced state, just a near balanced state. It had a rate of 54% in PvZ for example over all notified games.
Hell even chess is not balanced, white will allways have a advantage from the beginning. Thats why white plays for victory, black for stalemate.
And SC II, with his constant addons, the maps, the 3 different races, we will never see perfect balance, but we will see patches and map adjustments to come near to this state. But if we rush things, like we did last time, terran buff patch and map pool change ( one these were needed, who denies that shouldnt write in this thread ) maybe have been too much, but if we rush things again, we gain greater mess again. Dreampool ruined the map adjustment, so we have to wait till beginning of S1. Then watch S1, conclude and maybe act with a new patch to adress things.

On December 01 2014 21:00 KelsierSC wrote:


black doesn't really play for stalemate in tournaments anymore.

On December 01 2014 11:14 -_- wrote:


When are you going to post your follow up article to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/460550-welcome-to-zparcraft-ii on the current state of balance? Can I suggest the title "Welcome to Tarcraft?"

On December 01 2014 22:01 TheDwf wrote:

Sure. When Protoss:

- has less Code S representation in one year than the dominant race in any single season;
- has his very best players (Rain, Zest) lying in Code B to 3 buttons strategies;
- is the least played race at pro level since 2.5 years;
- passively starts the game behind on any map (including the most "standard" ones) against the dominant race;
- has 5% of the options of the dominant race;
- doesn't even have the small way-out of low-skill all-ins to dodge macro games;
- is robbed of the areas where it's supposed to shine by design;
- has the smallest margin of error and the weakest comeback potential;
- is the race that loses the most against inferior players, and in particular repeatedly gets coinflipped to death by the dominant race playing unscoutable low-skill builds with smooth transitions;
- doesn't get a single Premier title in 7 months;
- has only one man who keeps winning against all odds;
- is still declared fine by legions of tools who don't understand its winrates no longer mean anything because its subtop has been erased from existence in the first place;

Then I'm sure you will go through the small effort to write 40 pages based on 8 months of data to plead your case. From personal experience I can guarantee you will have ton of fun.

But don't worry, you won't have to. What will happen is that Blizzard will put 7 Overgrowth clones for WCS 2015 S1, Protoss will play colo dual forge again and people will realize that nope, Terran isn't structurally stronger than Protoss (which is the big difference with Zparcraft).

By the way, here are all the recent big tournaments including enough Koreans:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2014_MSI_Beat_IT
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2014_WCS_Global_Finals
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/HomeStory_Cup/10
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2014_DreamHack_Open/Winter
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/32_Boys_1_Cup
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/PughCraft_Invitational_2

Waah, what a "Terrancraft" indeed… 1 title out of 6. Or probably 6 out of 6 with Doublemint's logic because A threw, plus if B does that, then C occurs and Terran wins anyway. ( )

Oh, and please follow http://challonge.com/leifengmf2 that is running as we speak; in particular pay attention to how Protoss got absolutely decimated so far, completely wiped by the extreme domination that TaeJa, Cure, Bbyong and Maru exerted against their Protoss opponents.

On December 01 2014 21:44 Big J wrote:


Whoever introduced the fucking queen is a fucking fool and couldn't even wait for 800years of metagame development. Pretty sure black is soon going to win everything once they find out how to defend knights with their pawns and what then? All our aggressive tools are gone and we will never win against unbeatable lategame compositions of black.
And to those who say "just play turtle with your high tech pieces", the Sowjets dismantled that years ago. Of course, Russian White players may still win a tournament because they are just way better, but when every finals is India or Norway you fucking know there is something wrong.