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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 11 2014 08:13 NovemberstOrm wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 08:08 DinoMight wrote:On November 11 2014 07:44 NewSunshine wrote:On November 11 2014 07:13 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 11 2014 07:01 NewSunshine wrote:On November 11 2014 04:47 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 11 2014 04:30 OtherWorld wrote:On November 11 2014 04:26 SatedSC2 wrote:On November 11 2014 04:07 OtherWorld wrote:On November 11 2014 03:55 SatedSC2 wrote:
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"Now they just need to get rid of fewer resources per base and 12 starting workers."
I don't want less minerals per base either. You're misunderstanding my argument. The HotS economy is fine how it is. Hmm I think we're misunderstanding each other then. I was talking about your reaction to the "Efficiency is unchanged" part, because I feel changing mining efficiency would be good for SC2. Obviously, like The_Red_Viper is saying, Protoss would get changed as well based on this new, reduced saturation econ system Protoss are being changed. WG weakened. MSC weakened. No new units or improved mobility for the current army. It's a massive nerf. I could not possibly overstate how much Protoss is getting dicked on here. No new units/buffs yet. You know perfectly well Blizzard won't release a game with one race being obviously UP (I mean as UP as P looked during the showmatches) They released WoL with one race being obviously OP. I don't see any reason why they couldn't possibly do the reverse. So no, I do not know perfectly well that Blizzard won't release a game with one race being obviously UP. WoL was 4 years ago. I don't know what you think you've been contributing to the discussion here, but all I see is classic troll behavior. Not just this thread. Thanks for the heads up. You definitely added to the discussion by making that post! I'll be sure to change absolutely nothing about how I voice my opinions based on your feedback. The other person asked me to have faith in Blizzard. I explained why I don't. Seems pretty simple to me =/ I recommend you read this. + Show Spoiler +The Sophist Troll. Sophist Trolls, or "philotrolls," fancy themselves Enlightened Philosophers or Learned Experts of the highest order. Often well educated, Philotrolls are capable of speaking intelligently on a number of topics, and when the spirit moves them they can be worthwhile forum participants. Unfortunately, Sophist Trolls are an extremely hostile and intolerant species.
When confronted by opinions with which they do not agree – particularly when they do not see any means of successfully arguing their contrary views – Sophists resort (repeatedly) to a variety of intellectually dishonest tactics. Most often, this is characterized by an overly snide, condescending, patronizing attitude. Philotrolls consider anyone with whom they do not agree to be "immature," and are fond of quoting that old saw that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
When cornered they are quick to resort to personal attacks. A philotroll's bag of rhetorical tricks includes a variety of transparent ploys, such as willfully misinterpreting the opponent's words, committing Straw Man fallacies, accusing his or her opponents of engaging in the very tactics used by the philotroll, and so forth.
When engaging in their sophistry, philotrolls are among the most hypocritical and aggravating of trollkind. And I suggest no one else responds to you. I suggest that you stop acting like a fucking child and post things that are on topic rather than feuding with another user for no reason. Everyone just calm down yo take it to pms if you cant converse civilly.
Last warning guys.
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On November 11 2014 08:57 Garbels wrote:
I just realized that starting with 12 workers is like forgeting to move your overlord for 1:30min.
That's a really good point! Overlord scouting getting nerfed! Hoorah!
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On November 11 2014 09:13 mishimaBeef wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 08:57 Garbels wrote:
I just realized that starting with 12 workers is like forgeting to move your overlord for 1:30min. That's a really good point! Overlord scouting getting nerfed! Hoorah!
Wow ZvZ will be fun :D
edit: false alarm boys
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On November 11 2014 00:47 BaronVonOwn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 00:28 Daralii wrote:
It also brings back quasi-reaver micro. Run a disruptor into a clump, let it detonate, pick it up with a prism, wait for cooldown, repeat. It has a very high cost(I realize it'll probably change) and will be very unforgiving, but I like it conceptually.
Yes, it will be unforgiving, but so was the reaver. The reaver had a pretty long attack cooldown, half the time it would only get off 1 scarab before being destroyed. Of course the reaver also only cost 200/100, if the disruptor costs anything like that it would be super OP.
300 gas, not sure about minerals. I'm completely fine with them being next to impossible to use without prism micro, but they're definitely very expensive for what's effectively a melee unit.
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Does anyone know what exactly cyclone lock-on does? Does it just give a range bonus versus the current target until the target dies or moves out of range?
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On November 11 2014 08:57 Garbels wrote:
I just realized that starting with 12 workers is like forgeting to move your overlord for 1:30min.
Can you share the math behind this calculation please?
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I also don't think 12 workers will change much in terms of openings. The biggest impact it's going to have is on scout timings, but in terms of macro vs. cheese things are probably going to be more or less the same. Both types of openers will be strengthened compared to a 6 worker start, but both will most likely still be viable, especially once timings get sorted out like they are now. I only really wonder whether it will make more open mains/naturals on maps viable. I really want to see the impact of this.
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On November 11 2014 12:45 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 08:57 Garbels wrote:
I just realized that starting with 12 workers is like forgeting to move your overlord for 1:30min. Can you share the math behind this calculation please?
There you go:
12 Supply workers in construction.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dSNvjmw.jpg)
12 Supply workers get out of cocoon.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7KXnmHK.jpg)
This in my opinion is one of the biggest issues with the 12 worker thingy, how it affects scouting not only for Zerg players, but for the other races as well, not to mention that the way it affects early game shenanigans, the early game dead time is an important part of Starcraft.
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On November 11 2014 13:00 Uvantak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 12:45 Xiphos wrote:On November 11 2014 08:57 Garbels wrote:
I just realized that starting with 12 workers is like forgeting to move your overlord for 1:30min. Can you share the math behind this calculation please? There you go: 12 Supply workers in construction. 12 Supply workers get out of cocoon. This in my opinion is one of the biggest issues with the 12 worker thingy, how it affects scouting not only for Zerg players, but for the other races as well, not to mention that the way it affects early game shenanigans, the early game dead time is an important part of Starcraft.
If I had a like button, this is the kind of post I would use it on.
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"the early game dead time is an important part of Starcraft"
How so? Mind games?
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On November 11 2014 13:00 Uvantak wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 12:45 Xiphos wrote:On November 11 2014 08:57 Garbels wrote:
I just realized that starting with 12 workers is like forgeting to move your overlord for 1:30min. Can you share the math behind this calculation please? There you go: 12 Supply workers in construction. 12 Supply workers get out of cocoon. This in my opinion is one of the biggest issues with the 12 worker thingy, how it affects scouting not only for Zerg players, but for the other races as well, not to mention that the way it affects early game shenanigans, the early game dead time is an important part of Starcraft.
Could you please explain how what the pictures show is bad for the game?
Common sense suggests that if Overlords scout later, things that Overlords need to scout come later, too... so the net result is the same. You might be disproving that, but I don't follow.
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On November 11 2014 13:28 pure.Wasted wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 13:00 Uvantak wrote:On November 11 2014 12:45 Xiphos wrote:On November 11 2014 08:57 Garbels wrote:
I just realized that starting with 12 workers is like forgeting to move your overlord for 1:30min. Can you share the math behind this calculation please? There you go: 12 Supply workers in construction. 12 Supply workers get out of cocoon. This in my opinion is one of the biggest issues with the 12 worker thingy, how it affects scouting not only for Zerg players, but for the other races as well, not to mention that the way it affects early game shenanigans, the early game dead time is an important part of Starcraft. Could you please explain how what the pictures show is bad for the game? Common sense suggests that if Overlords scout later, things that Overlords need to scout come later, too... so the net result is the same. You might be disproving that, but I don't follow.
Sorry but isn't it the complete opposite? 12 worker start => rushes and opponent's units come out faster, while overlord is still lagging behind at the base
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Though it would also be more likely that the opponent will have units to deter or at least inhibit the scout.
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On November 11 2014 13:51 GenesisX wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 13:28 pure.Wasted wrote:On November 11 2014 13:00 Uvantak wrote:On November 11 2014 12:45 Xiphos wrote:On November 11 2014 08:57 Garbels wrote:
I just realized that starting with 12 workers is like forgeting to move your overlord for 1:30min. Can you share the math behind this calculation please? There you go: 12 Supply workers in construction. 12 Supply workers get out of cocoon. This in my opinion is one of the biggest issues with the 12 worker thingy, how it affects scouting not only for Zerg players, but for the other races as well, not to mention that the way it affects early game shenanigans, the early game dead time is an important part of Starcraft. Could you please explain how what the pictures show is bad for the game? Common sense suggests that if Overlords scout later, things that Overlords need to scout come later, too... so the net result is the same. You might be disproving that, but I don't follow. Sorry but isn't it the complete opposite? 12 worker start => rushes and opponent's units come out faster, while overlord is still lagging behind at the base
I see what you're saying. Which rushes does this apply to, though? Not every rush needs to be scouted the moment it starts to be held... especially not now that you have 12 workers to defend a rush with, no matter what. And Drone scouting hurts a lot less with 12 workers than it does with 6, so there's that.
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Australia920 Posts
will 12 worker have any noticable effect on creep spread? Will it have any impact on when zerg first have a queen available to put down a tumor ?
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On November 11 2014 12:38 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Does anyone know what exactly cyclone lock-on does? Does it just give a range bonus versus the current target until the target dies or moves out of range?
Lets them move while shooting, like a phoenix. Ends if the target dies or moves out of range(5 on the LotV site, was 6 and upgradable to 9 at Blizzcon), would assume there's also a duration but I'm not sure. There's no mention of it on the official site, so it might've been removed.
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On November 11 2014 14:23 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 12:38 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Does anyone know what exactly cyclone lock-on does? Does it just give a range bonus versus the current target until the target dies or moves out of range? Lets them move while shooting, like a phoenix. Ends if the target dies or moves out of range(5 on the LotV site, was 6 and upgradable to 9 at Blizzcon), would assume there's also a duration but I'm not sure. There's no mention of it on the official site, so it might've been removed.
Not quite correct, it works like this:
The Cyclone has a lock-on range of 5 or 6, which the target must be within to initiate the lock-on. Once lock-on is active, the Cyclone automatically fires at that target, even while moving, as long as it stays within 13 range. There is an upgrade which increases the initial lock range to 9.
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On November 11 2014 14:29 SmileZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 14:23 Daralii wrote:On November 11 2014 12:38 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Does anyone know what exactly cyclone lock-on does? Does it just give a range bonus versus the current target until the target dies or moves out of range? Lets them move while shooting, like a phoenix. Ends if the target dies or moves out of range(5 on the LotV site, was 6 and upgradable to 9 at Blizzcon), would assume there's also a duration but I'm not sure. There's no mention of it on the official site, so it might've been removed. Not quite correct, it works like this: The Cyclone has a lock-on range of 5 or 6, which the target must be within to initiate the lock-on. Once lock-on is active, the Cyclone automatically fires at that target, even while moving, as long as it stays within 13 range. There is an upgrade which increases the initial lock range to 9.
Hmm, watching the VODs it looks like lock-on also increases the rate of fire, it seems like this might be part of what really makes it OP. Its standard dps of 18 is normal for its cost.
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On November 11 2014 14:40 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2014 14:29 SmileZerg wrote:On November 11 2014 14:23 Daralii wrote:On November 11 2014 12:38 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Does anyone know what exactly cyclone lock-on does? Does it just give a range bonus versus the current target until the target dies or moves out of range? Lets them move while shooting, like a phoenix. Ends if the target dies or moves out of range(5 on the LotV site, was 6 and upgradable to 9 at Blizzcon), would assume there's also a duration but I'm not sure. There's no mention of it on the official site, so it might've been removed. Not quite correct, it works like this: The Cyclone has a lock-on range of 5 or 6, which the target must be within to initiate the lock-on. Once lock-on is active, the Cyclone automatically fires at that target, even while moving, as long as it stays within 13 range. There is an upgrade which increases the initial lock range to 9. Hmm, watching the VODs it looks like lock-on also increases the rate of fire, it seems like this might be part of what really makes it OP. Its standard dps of 18 is normal for its cost.
Yes, it does, they have something around 30 dps with lock-on active.
I'm pretty sure that is the first thing that's going to get nerfed. I also wouldn't mind a slight HP nerf on the Cyclone as well.
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EPT
