It seems that the marauder has been changed too. Nathanias said on his stream that they now have reduced damage but hit twice. It also does less damage to armored. He said they're much better at breaking through PPDs now but zealots are harder to kill.
Seems like a straight up nerf vs toss. I guess this is why Collosus also was nerfed probably.
But not sure I like this, since I always felt that the real issue with toss in the midgame lied with protoss and not terran. Toss is weaker than both terran and zerg, and therefore I would have preferred that terran bio and zerg was maintained in army strenght, but toss was "buffed".
Does anybody else think they should take off the supply depot requirement for barracks? This was done in age when absurdly fast proxy barracks were an actual issue, but now that we start with more SCVs wouldn't rolling back this requirement produce more cheese flexibility without breaking the game? Maybe testing would be required, but just an idea
It seems that the marauder has been changed too. Nathanias said on his stream that they now have reduced damage but hit twice. It also does less damage to armored. He said they're much better at breaking through PPDs now but zealots are harder to kill.
Looks like it's mostly a change with the Ultralisk in mind. With armour counting double, upgrades are already super important for BIO, this makes it more so, dno if I like it.
Does anybody else think they should take off the supply depot requirement for barracks? This was done in age when absurdly fast proxy barracks were an actual issue, but now that we start with more SCVs wouldn't rolling back this requirement produce more cheese flexibility without breaking the game? Maybe testing would be required, but just an idea
This I just assume they've already done. Can't see why they wouldn't.
On November 11 2014 07:26 yubo56 wrote: Does anybody else think they should take off the supply depot requirement for barracks? This was done in age when absurdly fast proxy barracks were an actual issue, but now that we start with more SCVs wouldn't rolling back this requirement produce more cheese flexibility without breaking the game? Maybe testing would be required, but just an idea
Proxied Reapers would hit absurdly fast. You basically NEED a Stalker/MsC to deal with the Reaper. I don't know what the new timings will be like but I don't imagine it would be fair.
On November 11 2014 02:53 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: [quote] I can't understand for the life of me how you can be against the saturation suggestion. Can you explain what downside you would see to it? The effect I see it having is that games won't stop around 3 base vs 3 base anymore. Whichever player has the defenders advantage can jump up to 4 bases or even more. It will allow for much more diversity, aggression, harass, etc.
Because as with almost everything else announced, encouraging more expansions is a direct nerf to Protoss. Terran and Zerg are mobile and Protoss is not. Nothing we're getting so far increases our mobility and MSC/WG nerfs make it harder to defend multiple bases than it already is. Protoss is already forced into an ultra-defensive posture if they want to take a third base. This will make it even easier to exploit that fact than it already is.
Plus, I more-or-less like HotS for what it is, aside from some imbalanced maps (like last season's ladder pool) and the Swarm Host. I was hoping LotV would address obvious issues rather than be a complete re-work. Blizzard are taking something that I think is stable and generally works pretty well and smashing it up. Of course I am opposed to that.
Well, the current LotV system (less minerals but without reduced efficiency) is precisely what you are against, but the same system with the reduced efficiency is precisely what would allow to encourage expanding without nerfing the immobile race
"Now they just need to get rid of fewer resources per base and 12 starting workers."
I don't want less minerals per base either. You're misunderstanding my argument. The HotS economy is fine how it is.
Hmm I think we're misunderstanding each other then. I was talking about your reaction to the "Efficiency is unchanged" part, because I feel changing mining efficiency would be good for SC2. Obviously, like The_Red_Viper is saying, Protoss would get changed as well based on this new, reduced saturation econ system
Protoss are being changed. WG weakened. MSC weakened. No new units or improved mobility for the current army. It's a massive nerf. I could not possibly overstate how much Protoss is getting dicked on here.
No new units/buffs yet. You know perfectly well Blizzard won't release a game with one race being obviously UP (I mean as UP as P looked during the showmatches)
They released WoL with one race being obviously OP. I don't see any reason why they couldn't possibly do the reverse. So no, I do not know perfectly well that Blizzard won't release a game with one race being obviously UP.
WoL was 4 years ago. I don't know what you think you've been contributing to the discussion here, but all I see is classic troll behavior. Not just this thread.
Thanks for the heads up. You definitely added to the discussion by making that post! I'll be sure to change absolutely nothing about how I voice my opinions based on your feedback.
The other person asked me to have faith in Blizzard. I explained why I don't. Seems pretty simple to me =/
The Sophist Troll. Sophist Trolls, or "philotrolls," fancy themselves Enlightened Philosophers or Learned Experts of the highest order. Often well educated, Philotrolls are capable of speaking intelligently on a number of topics, and when the spirit moves them they can be worthwhile forum participants. Unfortunately, Sophist Trolls are an extremely hostile and intolerant species.
When confronted by opinions with which they do not agree – particularly when they do not see any means of successfully arguing their contrary views – Sophists resort (repeatedly) to a variety of intellectually dishonest tactics. Most often, this is characterized by an overly snide, condescending, patronizing attitude. Philotrolls consider anyone with whom they do not agree to be "immature," and are fond of quoting that old saw that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
When cornered they are quick to resort to personal attacks. A philotroll's bag of rhetorical tricks includes a variety of transparent ploys, such as willfully misinterpreting the opponent's words, committing Straw Man fallacies, accusing his or her opponents of engaging in the very tactics used by the philotroll, and so forth.
When engaging in their sophistry, philotrolls are among the most hypocritical and aggravating of trollkind.
From Nathanias stream (didn't see his entire stream so he might have said other stuff). -Banshee speed takes a long time to research, "like 2 minutes" he said. -Cyclone needs to be manually locked on. He thinks it locks on too fast, feels it should get a timer to allow your opponent to get out of range. -Thinks 2 base lurker rush is good vs 3CC builds. -Lurkers with the 9 range upgrade "absolutely shit on bio". -Maruader now do 5 damage + 10 vs armored and hits twice. He might be messing up the +10 damage because he said that it was reduced from +20 (in hots) to +10. Its +10 in hots so I'm assuming he meant +5 in lotv.
On November 11 2014 02:46 HaloLegend98 wrote: Hey guys
I don't think that anyone else noticed this, but during the Bo5 LotV show match between MC/HyuN and Polt/SoO when units move behind a structure they are now outlined and the structure temporarily is translucent.
Check it out:
WCS Global Finals 2014 Starcraft 2 - Showmatch - …:
Notice the SCVs behind the Starport and the CC around 27:30.
Not sure if this is a current thing, but it caught my eye and I want to share it.
I don't like it (I didn't like it in AoE and AoM either). I hope you can disable it.
On November 11 2014 02:46 HaloLegend98 wrote: Hey guys
I don't think that anyone else noticed this, but during the Bo5 LotV show match between MC/HyuN and Polt/SoO when units move behind a structure they are now outlined and the structure temporarily is translucent.
Notice the SCVs behind the Starport and the CC around 27:30.
Not sure if this is a current thing, but it caught my eye and I want to share it.
I don't like it (I didn't like it in AoE and AoM either). I hope you can disable it.
Yeah i thought it looked weird at first. I mean, I'd get used to it of course, but I don't think it's really necessary - being able to turn it off would be great.
Something really simple/minor but I would really like to have, is an easier option to remove unit from a control group. As LoTV seems to be more of little fight everywhere, I would like to be able to remove units from my main control group to form a small hit squad to defend/attack an expansion. Like if I have my roach on one control group 1, split in two and select half of them, hit (ALT+1 for example) and it would remove the selected unit from group 1.
On November 11 2014 02:46 HaloLegend98 wrote: Hey guys
I don't think that anyone else noticed this, but during the Bo5 LotV show match between MC/HyuN and Polt/SoO when units move behind a structure they are now outlined and the structure temporarily is translucent.
Notice the SCVs behind the Starport and the CC around 27:30.
Not sure if this is a current thing, but it caught my eye and I want to share it.
I don't like it (I didn't like it in AoE and AoM either). I hope you can disable it.
I hope it's just for the observer and not the players. Hiding stuff behind buildings (or buidings behind stuff) is a pretty neat strategy used in games (like when Zerg players stack their Overlords over their Spire so you can't see it).
On November 11 2014 03:11 OtherWorld wrote: [quote] Well, the current LotV system (less minerals but without reduced efficiency) is precisely what you are against, but the same system with the reduced efficiency is precisely what would allow to encourage expanding without nerfing the immobile race
"Now they just need to get rid of fewer resources per base and 12 starting workers."
I don't want less minerals per base either. You're misunderstanding my argument. The HotS economy is fine how it is.
Hmm I think we're misunderstanding each other then. I was talking about your reaction to the "Efficiency is unchanged" part, because I feel changing mining efficiency would be good for SC2. Obviously, like The_Red_Viper is saying, Protoss would get changed as well based on this new, reduced saturation econ system
Protoss are being changed. WG weakened. MSC weakened. No new units or improved mobility for the current army. It's a massive nerf. I could not possibly overstate how much Protoss is getting dicked on here.
No new units/buffs yet. You know perfectly well Blizzard won't release a game with one race being obviously UP (I mean as UP as P looked during the showmatches)
They released WoL with one race being obviously OP. I don't see any reason why they couldn't possibly do the reverse. So no, I do not know perfectly well that Blizzard won't release a game with one race being obviously UP.
WoL was 4 years ago. I don't know what you think you've been contributing to the discussion here, but all I see is classic troll behavior. Not just this thread.
Thanks for the heads up. You definitely added to the discussion by making that post! I'll be sure to change absolutely nothing about how I voice my opinions based on your feedback.
The other person asked me to have faith in Blizzard. I explained why I don't. Seems pretty simple to me =/
The Sophist Troll. Sophist Trolls, or "philotrolls," fancy themselves Enlightened Philosophers or Learned Experts of the highest order. Often well educated, Philotrolls are capable of speaking intelligently on a number of topics, and when the spirit moves them they can be worthwhile forum participants. Unfortunately, Sophist Trolls are an extremely hostile and intolerant species.
When confronted by opinions with which they do not agree – particularly when they do not see any means of successfully arguing their contrary views – Sophists resort (repeatedly) to a variety of intellectually dishonest tactics. Most often, this is characterized by an overly snide, condescending, patronizing attitude. Philotrolls consider anyone with whom they do not agree to be "immature," and are fond of quoting that old saw that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
When cornered they are quick to resort to personal attacks. A philotroll's bag of rhetorical tricks includes a variety of transparent ploys, such as willfully misinterpreting the opponent's words, committing Straw Man fallacies, accusing his or her opponents of engaging in the very tactics used by the philotroll, and so forth.
When engaging in their sophistry, philotrolls are among the most hypocritical and aggravating of trollkind.
And I suggest no one else responds to you.
I suggest that you stop acting like a fucking child and post things that are on topic rather than feuding with another user for no reason.
Everyone just calm down yo take it to pms if you cant converse civilly.
On November 11 2014 03:08 SatedSC2 wrote: [quote] Because as with almost everything else announced, encouraging more expansions is a direct nerf to Protoss. Terran and Zerg are mobile and Protoss is not. Nothing we're getting so far increases our mobility and MSC/WG nerfs make it harder to defend multiple bases than it already is. Protoss is already forced into an ultra-defensive posture if they want to take a third base. This will make it even easier to exploit that fact than it already is.
Plus, I more-or-less like HotS for what it is, aside from some imbalanced maps (like last season's ladder pool) and the Swarm Host. I was hoping LotV would address obvious issues rather than be a complete re-work. Blizzard are taking something that I think is stable and generally works pretty well and smashing it up. Of course I am opposed to that.
Well, the current LotV system (less minerals but without reduced efficiency) is precisely what you are against, but the same system with the reduced efficiency is precisely what would allow to encourage expanding without nerfing the immobile race
"Now they just need to get rid of fewer resources per base and 12 starting workers."
I don't want less minerals per base either. You're misunderstanding my argument. The HotS economy is fine how it is.
Hmm I think we're misunderstanding each other then. I was talking about your reaction to the "Efficiency is unchanged" part, because I feel changing mining efficiency would be good for SC2. Obviously, like The_Red_Viper is saying, Protoss would get changed as well based on this new, reduced saturation econ system
Protoss are being changed. WG weakened. MSC weakened. No new units or improved mobility for the current army. It's a massive nerf. I could not possibly overstate how much Protoss is getting dicked on here.
No new units/buffs yet. You know perfectly well Blizzard won't release a game with one race being obviously UP (I mean as UP as P looked during the showmatches)
They released WoL with one race being obviously OP. I don't see any reason why they couldn't possibly do the reverse. So no, I do not know perfectly well that Blizzard won't release a game with one race being obviously UP.
WoL was 4 years ago. I don't know what you think you've been contributing to the discussion here, but all I see is classic troll behavior. Not just this thread.
Thanks for the heads up. You definitely added to the discussion by making that post! I'll be sure to change absolutely nothing about how I voice my opinions based on your feedback.
The other person asked me to have faith in Blizzard. I explained why I don't. Seems pretty simple to me =/
The Sophist Troll. Sophist Trolls, or "philotrolls," fancy themselves Enlightened Philosophers or Learned Experts of the highest order. Often well educated, Philotrolls are capable of speaking intelligently on a number of topics, and when the spirit moves them they can be worthwhile forum participants. Unfortunately, Sophist Trolls are an extremely hostile and intolerant species.
When confronted by opinions with which they do not agree – particularly when they do not see any means of successfully arguing their contrary views – Sophists resort (repeatedly) to a variety of intellectually dishonest tactics. Most often, this is characterized by an overly snide, condescending, patronizing attitude. Philotrolls consider anyone with whom they do not agree to be "immature," and are fond of quoting that old saw that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
When cornered they are quick to resort to personal attacks. A philotroll's bag of rhetorical tricks includes a variety of transparent ploys, such as willfully misinterpreting the opponent's words, committing Straw Man fallacies, accusing his or her opponents of engaging in the very tactics used by the philotroll, and so forth.
When engaging in their sophistry, philotrolls are among the most hypocritical and aggravating of trollkind.
And I suggest no one else responds to you.
People are allowed to have opinions. Focus on the ball instead of the man please.
On November 11 2014 03:11 OtherWorld wrote: [quote] Well, the current LotV system (less minerals but without reduced efficiency) is precisely what you are against, but the same system with the reduced efficiency is precisely what would allow to encourage expanding without nerfing the immobile race
"Now they just need to get rid of fewer resources per base and 12 starting workers."
I don't want less minerals per base either. You're misunderstanding my argument. The HotS economy is fine how it is.
Hmm I think we're misunderstanding each other then. I was talking about your reaction to the "Efficiency is unchanged" part, because I feel changing mining efficiency would be good for SC2. Obviously, like The_Red_Viper is saying, Protoss would get changed as well based on this new, reduced saturation econ system
Protoss are being changed. WG weakened. MSC weakened. No new units or improved mobility for the current army. It's a massive nerf. I could not possibly overstate how much Protoss is getting dicked on here.
No new units/buffs yet. You know perfectly well Blizzard won't release a game with one race being obviously UP (I mean as UP as P looked during the showmatches)
They released WoL with one race being obviously OP. I don't see any reason why they couldn't possibly do the reverse. So no, I do not know perfectly well that Blizzard won't release a game with one race being obviously UP.
WoL was 4 years ago. I don't know what you think you've been contributing to the discussion here, but all I see is classic troll behavior. Not just this thread.
Thanks for the heads up. You definitely added to the discussion by making that post! I'll be sure to change absolutely nothing about how I voice my opinions based on your feedback.
The other person asked me to have faith in Blizzard. I explained why I don't. Seems pretty simple to me =/
The Sophist Troll. Sophist Trolls, or "philotrolls," fancy themselves Enlightened Philosophers or Learned Experts of the highest order. Often well educated, Philotrolls are capable of speaking intelligently on a number of topics, and when the spirit moves them they can be worthwhile forum participants. Unfortunately, Sophist Trolls are an extremely hostile and intolerant species.
When confronted by opinions with which they do not agree – particularly when they do not see any means of successfully arguing their contrary views – Sophists resort (repeatedly) to a variety of intellectually dishonest tactics. Most often, this is characterized by an overly snide, condescending, patronizing attitude. Philotrolls consider anyone with whom they do not agree to be "immature," and are fond of quoting that old saw that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
When cornered they are quick to resort to personal attacks. A philotroll's bag of rhetorical tricks includes a variety of transparent ploys, such as willfully misinterpreting the opponent's words, committing Straw Man fallacies, accusing his or her opponents of engaging in the very tactics used by the philotroll, and so forth.
When engaging in their sophistry, philotrolls are among the most hypocritical and aggravating of trollkind.
And I suggest no one else responds to you.
People are allowed to have opinions. Focus on the ball instead of the man please.
It's not the opinion, but the way in which you carry it. You can be reasonable and intelligent, or you can be obstinate and in no way productive.
As for the Cyclone, obviously it's OP right now, but I think the concept of the unit can be really cool, it's a unit that rewards micro, but doesn't require insane amounts of it, I don't think every unit should. If they reduced the damage, the health, as well as the lock/leash ranges, it won't be unreasonable to kill, and if they made it the same speed as a Stalker, it can technically kite them when fighting, since they don't stop to attack, also the 2 units would actually damage each other as opposed to the slaughter it is right now. And, once Blink is researched they walk all over Cyclones.
On November 11 2014 02:46 HaloLegend98 wrote: Hey guys
I don't think that anyone else noticed this, but during the Bo5 LotV show match between MC/HyuN and Polt/SoO when units move behind a structure they are now outlined and the structure temporarily is translucent.
Notice the SCVs behind the Starport and the CC around 27:30.
Not sure if this is a current thing, but it caught my eye and I want to share it.
I don't like it (I didn't like it in AoE and AoM either). I hope you can disable it.
I hope it's just for the observer and not the players. Hiding stuff behind buildings (or buidings behind stuff) is a pretty neat strategy used in games (like when Zerg players stack their Overlords over their Spire so you can't see it).
Precisely ! -If this is only for observers I have absolutely no problem with it though.
EPT
