|
On August 12 2014 10:39 Nacl(Draq) wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? Asking questions of an organization in a public forum is not really the best way to handle things. This is a conversation to be had between Destiny and Kespa (or whoever Kespa wishes to have converse with Destiny.) If we get involved and muck things up it could turn out worse for all involved. I would suggest we let the two main parties handle this as they are both more than capable of coming to a decision themselves.
oh ok, posting emails are ok, but me asking a question is not ok. he doesnt have to answer me, that's just a question i hope he could comment on.
|
On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players.
I disagree with Stephen posting your private email. I am also excited to see Kespa showing interest in the public's opinion of them.
Since you have shown that you do care about "our" opinion of Kespa, here is my personal opinion:
Kespa is more controlling than an abusive spouse. Kespa forces everyone to bend to their will and desires. As an organization, Kespa lacks the ability to give freely for the benefit of the community as a whole. In other words, if Kespa isn't the biggest winner, then they aren't going to allow anything under the control to be used.
I strongly feel that individual players should have the ability to make more decisions on their own. Let them decide among themselves and their team. If Flash wants to participate in Destiny II, and KT is ok with it....... then let him!
I view Kespa as a dictatorship.
|
On August 12 2014 10:43 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 10:39 Nacl(Draq) wrote:On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? Asking questions of an organization in a public forum is not really the best way to handle things. This is a conversation to be had between Destiny and Kespa (or whoever Kespa wishes to have converse with Destiny.) If we get involved and muck things up it could turn out worse for all involved. I would suggest we let the two main parties handle this as they are both more than capable of coming to a decision themselves. oh ok, posting emails are ok, but me asking a question is not ok. he doesnt have to answer me, that's just a question i hope he could comment on.
You're right on both accounts. Feel free to ask away.
|
Korea (South)169 Posts
On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure?
His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience.
|
On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience.
just want to say good on you for tackling this head on. i really think it's unfair for destiny to sit back posting your private emails and snipe at you getting his fanbase to hate and criticize on the forums, and i applaud you for showing up to tell your side of the story. it must be very frustrating to read through pages and pages of people trashing you when they don't have the facts.
|
On August 12 2014 10:59 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience. just want to say good on you for tackling this head on. i really think it's unfair for destiny to sit back posting your private emails and snipe at you getting his fanbase to hate and criticize on the forums, and i applaud you for showing up to tell your side of the story. it must be very frustrating to read through pages and pages of people trashing you when they don't have the facts.
Just a side note: I have boycotted everything Destiny since his temper tantrum on State of the Game a loooooong time ago. So, my Kespa criticism isn't fan boy induced!
I'm also very glad to see Kespa involved at any level with the foreign community!!
|
Kespa: "Sure our players can win some money but what do WEEEE (The KESPA Corporation get)". Fucking fat cats wont let their players get some exposure because the high ups do not see any of the profit.
|
On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience.
Hi.
I'm not really concerned that you came off as rude. I've been on the internet for far too many years now to get hurt feelings.
My concern was that you were A) potentially holding back the growth of a part of the tournament scene (I am bias in here, obviously, as I can profit directly from that growth), and B) that you were depriving your players from a chance at earning some easy money without any legitimate reasons.
Initially I did request top-tier players, but based on the responses I don't think you would have lent me any B-teamers as well.
The idea that "oh you can benefit from this exposure!" when it literally requires zero work from KeSPA to allow some of their players to play off in an online tournament also came off as a bit ridiculous to me. You of all people I'm sure understand that the Starcraft 2 scene in Korea is abysmal right now, and Korea is one of the most over-populated places in regards to performance->talent. Unlocking the ability for some of those players to grab some easy money from a Western tournament that they didn't even have to travel to seems like a no-brainer. The idea that you're somehow "protecting KeSPA's image" by disallowing those players to participate in an online tournament seems...baffling to me.
So to reiterate, I'm not upset with your tone. I think you did a fine job at conveying exactly what you meant without wasting anyone's time in the transaction, and, even if it seems like I'm coming off as snarky, I'm grateful for that. I just didn't like the actual contents of the message, as it seems to me any Korean player would jump at the opportunity to snatch up some easy money in a foreign tournament.
|
On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience.
Just out of curiosity can I ask what did Totalbiscuit sell to KeSPA for the Sandisk Shoutcraft Invitational?
|
On August 12 2014 11:03 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience. Hi. I'm not really concerned that you came off as rude. I've been on the internet for far too many years now to get hurt feelings. My concern was that you were A) potentially holding back the growth of a part of the tournament scene (I am bias in here, obviously, as I can profit directly from that growth), and B) that you were depriving your players from a chance at earning some easy money without any legitimate reasons. Initially I did request top-tier players, but based on the responses I don't think you would have lent me any B-teamers as well. The idea that "oh you can benefit from this exposure!" when it literally requires zero work from KeSPA to allow some of their players to play off in an online tournament also came off as a bit ridiculous to me. You of all people I'm sure understand that the Starcraft 2 scene in Korea is abysmal right now, and Korea is one of the most over-populated places in regards to performance->talent. Unlocking the ability for some of those players to grab some easy money from a Western tournament that they didn't even have to travel to seems like a no-brainer. The idea that you're somehow "protecting KeSPA's image" by disallowing those players to participate in an online tournament seems...baffling to me. So to reiterate, I'm not upset with your tone. I think you did a fine job at conveying exactly what you meant without wasting anyone's time in the transaction, and, even if it seems like I'm coming off as snarky, I'm grateful for that. I just didn't like the actual contents of the message, as it seems to me any Korean player would jump at the opportunity to snatch up some easy money in a foreign tournament.
Very good dialect, except that this is a public forum. Keep on going and burn that bridge further. You should have continued to communicate with KeSPA - in PRIVATE - to work out the differences instead of pouting like an amateur and posting all this crap on a public forum. You are basically limiting the options that KeSPA has now, not only for yourself but for all the other potential organizations in the future. A little bit more professionalism is what this scene needs.
|
Loving the transparency Destiny. Although I didn't watch the tournament I'm glad you're contributing something relatively positive towards the community GJ
|
On August 12 2014 11:21 jellyjello wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 11:03 Destiny wrote:On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience. Hi. I'm not really concerned that you came off as rude. I've been on the internet for far too many years now to get hurt feelings. My concern was that you were A) potentially holding back the growth of a part of the tournament scene (I am bias in here, obviously, as I can profit directly from that growth), and B) that you were depriving your players from a chance at earning some easy money without any legitimate reasons. Initially I did request top-tier players, but based on the responses I don't think you would have lent me any B-teamers as well. The idea that "oh you can benefit from this exposure!" when it literally requires zero work from KeSPA to allow some of their players to play off in an online tournament also came off as a bit ridiculous to me. You of all people I'm sure understand that the Starcraft 2 scene in Korea is abysmal right now, and Korea is one of the most over-populated places in regards to performance->talent. Unlocking the ability for some of those players to grab some easy money from a Western tournament that they didn't even have to travel to seems like a no-brainer. The idea that you're somehow "protecting KeSPA's image" by disallowing those players to participate in an online tournament seems...baffling to me. So to reiterate, I'm not upset with your tone. I think you did a fine job at conveying exactly what you meant without wasting anyone's time in the transaction, and, even if it seems like I'm coming off as snarky, I'm grateful for that. I just didn't like the actual contents of the message, as it seems to me any Korean player would jump at the opportunity to snatch up some easy money in a foreign tournament. Very good dialect, except that this is a public forum. Keep on going and burn that bridge further. You should have continued to communicate with KeSPA - in PRIVATE - to work out the differences instead of pouting like an amateur and posting all this crap on a public forum. You are basically limiting the options that KeSPA has now, not only for yourself but for all the other potential organizations in the future. A little bit more professionalism is what this scene needs.
If he started to respond publicly, than I think I can as well, no? I don't think KeSPA is very discrete in regards to how they conduct their business and I think Chudd posts pretty often on twitter/reddit about KeSPA and the rationale behind their decisions, or at least what their decisions are. If he wants me to take it off of a public forum, I'd respect the request to do so.
The random "WE NED MORE PEROFESIONALISM LOL" jab at me gets you nowhere, though, so please calm your "2cool4skool" jets.
|
good shit, we need kespa next time though
|
On August 12 2014 11:03 Estancia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience. Just out of curiosity can I ask what did Totalbiscuit sell to KeSPA for the Sandisk Shoutcraft Invitational?
From my perspective the same thing, though with a larger prizepool, smaller playpool, larger audience, dedicated Korean cast and full focus on Korean talent, staffed by a caster and cocaster the players knew.
That said I would like to hear Chuddinaters answer. KeSPAs perspective is protecting the players and also doing their sponsors the fullest possible service, which is completely justifiable. That's why KeSPA is as successful as it is, literally no esports organization on planet earth protects their players and gives their sponsors ROI better than KeSPA does.
Think about it that way. What does SKT gain from playing in a foreign event? By SKT I'm talking the sponsor not the team. Not much. SKT sells services in Korea, not America. That's why I've been trying my best to integrate better with the Korean audience so we can actually help those sponsors. I want KeSPA to succeed, I want all of Starcraft to succeed. That I think if anything is the one thing that didn't come across well in Chuddinators response. It almost seems like tournament organizers are being labeled as an enemy and players are a commodity. I don't agree with that. We're not enemies, we're on the same side.
Very good dialect, except that this is a public forum. Keep on going and burn that bridge further. You should have continued to communicate with KeSPA - in PRIVATE - to work out the differences instead of pouting like an amateur and posting all this crap on a public forum. You are basically limiting the options that KeSPA has now, not only for yourself but for all the other potential organizations in the future. A little bit more professionalism is what this scene needs.
This is a nice thing to put on the pile of "reasons we can't have transparency", along with the TaKe logs, DH Moscow thread and many other examples over the years. If anyone asks you why so many teams and personalities stick to PR-like statements, you can point them directly to this. The community only wants transparency when it's convenient for them.
|
On August 12 2014 11:24 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 11:21 jellyjello wrote:On August 12 2014 11:03 Destiny wrote:On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience. Hi. I'm not really concerned that you came off as rude. I've been on the internet for far too many years now to get hurt feelings. My concern was that you were A) potentially holding back the growth of a part of the tournament scene (I am bias in here, obviously, as I can profit directly from that growth), and B) that you were depriving your players from a chance at earning some easy money without any legitimate reasons. Initially I did request top-tier players, but based on the responses I don't think you would have lent me any B-teamers as well. The idea that "oh you can benefit from this exposure!" when it literally requires zero work from KeSPA to allow some of their players to play off in an online tournament also came off as a bit ridiculous to me. You of all people I'm sure understand that the Starcraft 2 scene in Korea is abysmal right now, and Korea is one of the most over-populated places in regards to performance->talent. Unlocking the ability for some of those players to grab some easy money from a Western tournament that they didn't even have to travel to seems like a no-brainer. The idea that you're somehow "protecting KeSPA's image" by disallowing those players to participate in an online tournament seems...baffling to me. So to reiterate, I'm not upset with your tone. I think you did a fine job at conveying exactly what you meant without wasting anyone's time in the transaction, and, even if it seems like I'm coming off as snarky, I'm grateful for that. I just didn't like the actual contents of the message, as it seems to me any Korean player would jump at the opportunity to snatch up some easy money in a foreign tournament. Very good dialect, except that this is a public forum. Keep on going and burn that bridge further. You should have continued to communicate with KeSPA - in PRIVATE - to work out the differences instead of pouting like an amateur and posting all this crap on a public forum. You are basically limiting the options that KeSPA has now, not only for yourself but for all the other potential organizations in the future. A little bit more professionalism is what this scene needs. If he started to respond publicly, than I think I can as well, no? I don't think KeSPA is very discrete in regards to how they conduct their business and I think Chudd posts pretty often on twitter/reddit about KeSPA and the rationale behind their decisions, or at least what their decisions are. If he wants me to take it off of a public forum, I'd respect the request to do so. The random "WE NED MORE PEROFESIONALISM LOL" jab at me gets you nowhere, though, so please calm your "2cool4skool" jets.
who posted emails again? i forgot.
|
On August 12 2014 11:30 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 11:24 Destiny wrote:On August 12 2014 11:21 jellyjello wrote:On August 12 2014 11:03 Destiny wrote:On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience. Hi. I'm not really concerned that you came off as rude. I've been on the internet for far too many years now to get hurt feelings. My concern was that you were A) potentially holding back the growth of a part of the tournament scene (I am bias in here, obviously, as I can profit directly from that growth), and B) that you were depriving your players from a chance at earning some easy money without any legitimate reasons. Initially I did request top-tier players, but based on the responses I don't think you would have lent me any B-teamers as well. The idea that "oh you can benefit from this exposure!" when it literally requires zero work from KeSPA to allow some of their players to play off in an online tournament also came off as a bit ridiculous to me. You of all people I'm sure understand that the Starcraft 2 scene in Korea is abysmal right now, and Korea is one of the most over-populated places in regards to performance->talent. Unlocking the ability for some of those players to grab some easy money from a Western tournament that they didn't even have to travel to seems like a no-brainer. The idea that you're somehow "protecting KeSPA's image" by disallowing those players to participate in an online tournament seems...baffling to me. So to reiterate, I'm not upset with your tone. I think you did a fine job at conveying exactly what you meant without wasting anyone's time in the transaction, and, even if it seems like I'm coming off as snarky, I'm grateful for that. I just didn't like the actual contents of the message, as it seems to me any Korean player would jump at the opportunity to snatch up some easy money in a foreign tournament. Very good dialect, except that this is a public forum. Keep on going and burn that bridge further. You should have continued to communicate with KeSPA - in PRIVATE - to work out the differences instead of pouting like an amateur and posting all this crap on a public forum. You are basically limiting the options that KeSPA has now, not only for yourself but for all the other potential organizations in the future. A little bit more professionalism is what this scene needs. If he started to respond publicly, than I think I can as well, no? I don't think KeSPA is very discrete in regards to how they conduct their business and I think Chudd posts pretty often on twitter/reddit about KeSPA and the rationale behind their decisions, or at least what their decisions are. If he wants me to take it off of a public forum, I'd respect the request to do so. The random "WE NED MORE PEROFESIONALISM LOL" jab at me gets you nowhere, though, so please calm your "2cool4skool" jets. who posted emails again? i forgot.
It was an e-mail sent while representing a large organization. You want to talk "professionalism"..? Do you really think any e-mail sent on behalf of one business to another is EVER expected to stay private? Do you even understand why NDA's exist?
If you're this pants-on-head retarded, why the fuck would you waste someone's time responding to them in a public forum?
|
On August 12 2014 11:03 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience. Hi. I'm not really concerned that you came off as rude. I've been on the internet for far too many years now to get hurt feelings. My concern was that you were A) potentially holding back the growth of a part of the tournament scene (I am bias in here, obviously, as I can profit directly from that growth), and B) that you were depriving your players from a chance at earning some easy money without any legitimate reasons. Initially I did request top-tier players, but based on the responses I don't think you would have lent me any B-teamers as well. The idea that "oh you can benefit from this exposure!" when it literally requires zero work from KeSPA to allow some of their players to play off in an online tournament also came off as a bit ridiculous to me. You of all people I'm sure understand that the Starcraft 2 scene in Korea is abysmal right now, and Korea is one of the most over-populated places in regards to performance->talent. Unlocking the ability for some of those players to grab some easy money from a Western tournament that they didn't even have to travel to seems like a no-brainer. The idea that you're somehow "protecting KeSPA's image" by disallowing those players to participate in an online tournament seems...baffling to me. So to reiterate, I'm not upset with your tone. I think you did a fine job at conveying exactly what you meant without wasting anyone's time in the transaction, and, even if it seems like I'm coming off as snarky, I'm grateful for that. I just didn't like the actual contents of the message, as it seems to me any Korean player would jump at the opportunity to snatch up some easy money in a foreign tournament.
Your argument is partly contradictory because you're not inviting Kespa players to help them win "easy money in a foreign tournament", you're doing it to help yourself by relying on Kespa's brand to increase the relevancy of your name and tournament. In short, you are doing the exact thing that you are criticizing Kespa for doing, except your tone is complaining because you're on the wrong side of it.
This could easily be reversed if less known people ask to be invited to your next tournament and you tell them "sorry but no, your name isn't big enough to help my viewer numbers even if you win, so what's in it for me?"
|
On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players.
I think your response was fine and fair. Destiny just likes to stir up trouble. Pro league grand finals is way more important and special. He can get plenty of other players.
|
On August 12 2014 11:31 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 11:03 Destiny wrote:On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience. Hi. I'm not really concerned that you came off as rude. I've been on the internet for far too many years now to get hurt feelings. My concern was that you were A) potentially holding back the growth of a part of the tournament scene (I am bias in here, obviously, as I can profit directly from that growth), and B) that you were depriving your players from a chance at earning some easy money without any legitimate reasons. Initially I did request top-tier players, but based on the responses I don't think you would have lent me any B-teamers as well. The idea that "oh you can benefit from this exposure!" when it literally requires zero work from KeSPA to allow some of their players to play off in an online tournament also came off as a bit ridiculous to me. You of all people I'm sure understand that the Starcraft 2 scene in Korea is abysmal right now, and Korea is one of the most over-populated places in regards to performance->talent. Unlocking the ability for some of those players to grab some easy money from a Western tournament that they didn't even have to travel to seems like a no-brainer. The idea that you're somehow "protecting KeSPA's image" by disallowing those players to participate in an online tournament seems...baffling to me. So to reiterate, I'm not upset with your tone. I think you did a fine job at conveying exactly what you meant without wasting anyone's time in the transaction, and, even if it seems like I'm coming off as snarky, I'm grateful for that. I just didn't like the actual contents of the message, as it seems to me any Korean player would jump at the opportunity to snatch up some easy money in a foreign tournament. Your argument is partly contradictory because you're not inviting Kespa players to help them win "easy money in a foreign tournament", you're doing it to help yourself by relying on Kespa's brand to increase the relevancy of your name and tournament. In short, you are doing the exact thing that you are criticizing Kespa for doing, except your tone is complaining because you're on the wrong side of it. This could easily be reversed if less known people ask to be invited to your next tournament and you tell them "sorry but no, your name isn't big enough to help my viewer numbers even if you win, so what's in it for me?"
But inviting Kespa players is mutually beneficial. More views for Destiny, more money for Kespa players. There's nothing wrong with Destiny inviting players that people want to see. Your reversed scenario doesn't make sense at all since it's only beneficial in one direction.
|
On August 12 2014 11:24 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2014 11:21 jellyjello wrote:On August 12 2014 11:03 Destiny wrote:On August 12 2014 10:56 Chuddinater wrote:On August 12 2014 10:37 zev318 wrote:On August 12 2014 10:30 Chuddinater wrote:
I'm very sorry if I came off as rude in the email. That was not my intentions I just wanted to be honest and upfront with him at the time. What I was asking for was for him to sell me on his tournament, which I don't think is something rude. Maybe I should not be as honest when working with people I do not know in the future because they just might post your email on a public forum. It seems some people want me to just sugar coat my response, but I personally believe that being honest and upfront makes it so both parties know exactly what needs to get done.
Also I have read through the comments and people think KeSPA is demanding money or something to send our players, which is completely false. We don't get paid money by any tournament to send players. what was his sell to kespa? was it really just oh your players could make minimal money and give kespa minimal exposure? His sell was there is prize money and you get exposure to the western audience. Hi. I'm not really concerned that you came off as rude. I've been on the internet for far too many years now to get hurt feelings. My concern was that you were A) potentially holding back the growth of a part of the tournament scene (I am bias in here, obviously, as I can profit directly from that growth), and B) that you were depriving your players from a chance at earning some easy money without any legitimate reasons. Initially I did request top-tier players, but based on the responses I don't think you would have lent me any B-teamers as well. The idea that "oh you can benefit from this exposure!" when it literally requires zero work from KeSPA to allow some of their players to play off in an online tournament also came off as a bit ridiculous to me. You of all people I'm sure understand that the Starcraft 2 scene in Korea is abysmal right now, and Korea is one of the most over-populated places in regards to performance->talent. Unlocking the ability for some of those players to grab some easy money from a Western tournament that they didn't even have to travel to seems like a no-brainer. The idea that you're somehow "protecting KeSPA's image" by disallowing those players to participate in an online tournament seems...baffling to me. So to reiterate, I'm not upset with your tone. I think you did a fine job at conveying exactly what you meant without wasting anyone's time in the transaction, and, even if it seems like I'm coming off as snarky, I'm grateful for that. I just didn't like the actual contents of the message, as it seems to me any Korean player would jump at the opportunity to snatch up some easy money in a foreign tournament. Very good dialect, except that this is a public forum. Keep on going and burn that bridge further. You should have continued to communicate with KeSPA - in PRIVATE - to work out the differences instead of pouting like an amateur and posting all this crap on a public forum. You are basically limiting the options that KeSPA has now, not only for yourself but for all the other potential organizations in the future. A little bit more professionalism is what this scene needs. If he started to respond publicly, than I think I can as well, no? I don't think KeSPA is very discrete in regards to how they conduct their business and I think Chudd posts pretty often on twitter/reddit about KeSPA and the rationale behind their decisions, or at least what their decisions are. If he wants me to take it off of a public forum, I'd respect the request to do so. The random "WE NED MORE PEROFESIONALISM LOL" jab at me gets you nowhere, though, so please calm your "2cool4skool" jets.
You don't really take criticism well, do you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
