On August 12 2014 08:12 Sub40APM wrote: Destiny: I dont want to burn bridges with KESPA but they are cheap and fuck them and I hate them
lol
Yea, I'm not entirely sure this was the best way to handle that when he hadn't decided yet to completely cut ties with Kespa.
Not that I'm defending Kespa, really. They obviously do good things, but they increasingly feel like one of those unions or professional organisations that cost their members more opportunities to earn a living than it creates by being overly restrictive.
On August 12 2014 04:21 Byyk wrote: Destiny, I am impressed. From villain of SC2 scene to the savior. Really nice work. When I remember:
And now after all that time, like twist... Keep with good work, it is appreciated.
I find it funny that all those guys angry at Destiny for speaking truth are retired and have left (Geoff casts though) and Destiny lived to save SCII. Also its kind of ironic if Koreans had to leave and the scene did improve.
Painuser was very objective and balanced in that episode.
I want to comment on the quality of games from the NA ladder players. I was honestly surprised at the quality that the NA ladders heroes put up, and many were able to advance over clear favorites IMO (over Snute, etc.).
With that level of success on their part, I would love to see more of these style tournaments with a ladder invite to encourage play in NA.
I personally liked how destiny ran the tournament, it was awesome how his site was black completely, and then his screen had a white background with a planet and destiny written on it, that was a cool touch. I would've liked to seen more players (Expanded bracket) not necessarily korean, but foreign, such as Happy, or Grubby. That would've have been cool. I would like to see the Destiny II ran in a time where there no other tournaments running. I personally don't like the back-to-back-to-back tournaments, but you had different casters everyday, and lots of players that it was great to watch.
Hats off to destiny, He's won my support for his next tournament.
On August 12 2014 08:12 Sub40APM wrote: Destiny: I dont want to burn bridges with KESPA but they are cheap and fuck them and I hate them
lol
Yea, I'm not entirely sure this was the best way to handle that when he hadn't decided yet to completely cut ties with Kespa.
Not that I'm defending Kespa, really. They obviously do good things, but they increasingly feel like one of those unions or professional organisations that cost their members more opportunities to earn a living than it creates by being overly restrictive.
I dont understand his logic, so KESPA didnt want to loan out their players to his tournament because they viewed him as small potatoes and now he is reluctant to share future benefits because 'he did all the hard work'? He was always going to do all the hard work as the organizer, just like every other tournament organization. For KESPA the organization the benefits are relatively small, who doesnt know their players? For Destiny the benefits of KESPA players in his tournament are still huge, it might easily bring in an extra 3-4000 viewers alone. So they didnt believe in him as much as TL or EG or TB whatever believed in him, why take it so personally?
On August 12 2014 08:12 Sub40APM wrote: Destiny: I dont want to burn bridges with KESPA but they are cheap and fuck them and I hate them
lol
Yea, I'm not entirely sure this was the best way to handle that when he hadn't decided yet to completely cut ties with Kespa.
Not that I'm defending Kespa, really. They obviously do good things, but they increasingly feel like one of those unions or professional organisations that cost their members more opportunities to earn a living than it creates by being overly restrictive.
I dont understand his logic, so KESPA didnt want to loan out their players to his tournament because they viewed him as small potatoes and now he is reluctant to share future benefits because 'he did all the hard work'? He was always going to do all the hard work as the organizer, just like every other tournament organization. For KESPA the organization the benefits are relatively small, who doesnt know their players? For Destiny the benefits of KESPA players in his tournament are still huge, it might easily bring in an extra 3-4000 viewers alone. So they didnt believe in him as much as TL or EG or TB whatever believed in him, why take it so personally?
WTF are you talking about? Loaning players? This was an opportunity for KESPA players to take part in a tournament that they would have had a good chance at earning some money, with absolutely no risk to either KESPA or the players.
What did KESPA have to gain from it? I don't know, income for the players they purport to represent? Encouraging a scene that their existence depends upon? Something like that?
On August 12 2014 08:12 Sub40APM wrote: Destiny: I dont want to burn bridges with KESPA but they are cheap and fuck them and I hate them
lol
Yea, I'm not entirely sure this was the best way to handle that when he hadn't decided yet to completely cut ties with Kespa.
Not that I'm defending Kespa, really. They obviously do good things, but they increasingly feel like one of those unions or professional organisations that cost their members more opportunities to earn a living than it creates by being overly restrictive.
I dont understand his logic, so KESPA didnt want to loan out their players to his tournament because they viewed him as small potatoes and now he is reluctant to share future benefits because 'he did all the hard work'? He was always going to do all the hard work as the organizer, just like every other tournament organization. For KESPA the organization the benefits are relatively small, who doesnt know their players? For Destiny the benefits of KESPA players in his tournament are still huge, it might easily bring in an extra 3-4000 viewers alone. So they didnt believe in him as much as TL or EG or TB whatever believed in him, why take it so personally?
yea i agree, and i am not trying to bring him down or hate on his work nor am i an "anti fan." it's just a poor business attitude in my opinion. if someone doesn't buy into your venture your response should be "thanks anyway, i'll prove you wrong, see you next time," not "well, fuck you, you aren't getting any of the pie later!" it's just not a smart or respectful way to operate. even if you think kespa made a mistake that doesn't really justify this kind of silly callout behavior, if anything destiny's actions here are what divide and undermine the scene
look at incontrol for example, he's a guy with an attitude who snaps and gets angry sometimes but he has a high awareness of that fact and knows when to step back and make apologies because he has the business sense to show humility to fans and partners rather than acting with entitlement
again though respect to his work putting the tournament together, but i'm not really sold on the "2014 destiny" based on this...
With crowd funding, unlike sponsorships, people like to get on the fresh hype train and support the idea of something, but are less inclined to continue that support come next time.
Food for thought, I don't know how well the logic of "next time will have more funds" will hold up, although next time will have more respectability for sure.
All in all great job tho, your risk of your "brand" has really paid off and you've gained a great many fans from this endevour.
Hello, I was the person who Destiny spoke with at KeSPA. I want to get ride of some misconceptions regarding sending B teamers and the issues with the timing of Destiny I.
First here is the players he requested: SKTT1 soo, SKTT1 Soulkey, SKTT1 Parting, SKTT1 Classic, KT Rolster Zest, KT Rolster Flash, JinAir Greenwings Maru, Prime MKP, IM Trap
Most of these players were playing the playoffs of Proleague and could have scheduling issues because of the Grand Finals. He was not asking for B teamers like other have suggested, but he wanted the top players to participate.
I was able to raise $1,800 from sponsorships for this event. Since the tournament was fully funded via the Indiegogo, this is money that I can essentially pocket as my "take home" pay for organizing/casting the tournament.
You let the viewers pay and go home with the sponsorship money. I think you should have mentioned that before fundraising, I would definitely be pissed, would I have had donated money for this event.
Why? I raised $5,500 via Indiegogo and said I would put it all towards the tournament. I did. All of the money's been paid out. What on earth could you possibly be mad about?
Firstly, I am not mad, because I did not donate nothing, because of that I do not care that much. Secondly, I doubt you mentioned that, even if you would put all money you get from Indiegogo into the tournament, that at the same would take all money the sponsors put into the tournament (on your post on Indiegogo). You speak about being transparent, while you are not. Thirdly, 1,800$ for organizing an event like that? In my opinion it is just too much.
But the people who donate have to decide if the 1.800$ you put in your own pocket are worth it.
Thirdly, 1,800$ for organizing an event like that? In my opinion it is just too much.
This is the kind of thing someone who hasnt worked a day in his life would say. $1800 for over a months worth of work and organization is dogshit, you're better off working at McDonalds, it's less stress.
Everyone who said the $1800 is too much donated $0 to this tournament and contributed nothing to anything of importance in their life. I would take their words seriously and be too worked up about it.
@TB: I'm working voluntarily in Peru with street-kids and, I'm spending my time and money to contribute something social. I'm living off of crap, I have around 500 Dollar to spend a month for food, shelter and so on, so I definitely know what dedication and hard-work feels like.
@The other guy: There is nothing to add. You guys sitting behind computers 24/7 want to tell me what hard-work looks like. How hilarious. I'm probably exactly the opposite you think of me, I'm doing the things I do out of pure dedication.
And it is totally fine to go home with some money, but you should communicate it like that, in my opinion, that is all I wanted to say. In this country you could let someone kill a guy for 1800$, so please.
On August 11 2014 23:55 Crot4le wrote: I think if you're being funded by community in choosing crowdfunding then your 'take home' pay should merely paying your expenses and organisational and casting fee. After you have compensated yourself for the time, I think all profit should then be put towards the next tournament since it's on the back of donations that you have made that profit.
But that's just how I feel.
I don't see how crowd funding is any different from say having a pay wall for the tournament, except he's letting anyone watch regardless of whether or not they pay. Basically the crowd funding is a pay-what-you-want model for the event. It's really arrogant to think that just because it was on the back of donations, it has to be non-profit. Destiny created a product and people were willing to pay for it, I see no problems with how Destiny handled this.
That being said, I'm worried about the sustainability of crowdfunding for events like this. I really feel like the same people who dished out money for one event aren't going to continue to do so (or at least not as much as they did for the first one) over a long period of time... I could very well be wrong in this assumption however.
@TB: I'm working voluntarily in Peru with street-kids and, I'm spending my time and money to contribute something social. I'm living off of crap, I have around 500 Dollar to spend a month for food, shelter and so on, so I definitely know what dedication and hard-work feels like.
Oh my heart bleeds... Appealing to the moral highground means nothing. If anything all it does is make your perspective even less realistic. This isn't Peru and we're not doing charity work. This is the US and $1800 for a months work here is rubbish.
On August 12 2014 09:53 Chuddinater wrote: Hello, I was the person who Destiny spoke with at KeSPA. I want to get ride of some misconceptions regarding sending B teamers and the issues with the timing of Destiny I.
First here is the players he requested: SKTT1 soo, SKTT1 Soulkey, SKTT1 Parting, SKTT1 Classic, KT Rolster Zest, KT Rolster Flash, JinAir Greenwings Maru, Prime MKP, IM Trap
Most of these players were playing the playoffs of Proleague and could have scheduling issues because of the Grand Finals. He was not asking for B teamers like other have suggested, but he wanted the top players to participate.
You don't have to reply if you don't want. I am just wanting some more information for clarification.
If Destiny's tournament occurred at a better time for Kespa players, would sending them to play in Destiny I be considered?
@TB: I'm working voluntarily in Peru with street-kids and, I'm spending my time and money to contribute something social. I'm living off of crap, I have around 500 Dollar to spend a month for food, shelter and so on, so I definitely know what dedication and hard-work feels like.
Oh my heart bleeds... Appealing to the moral highground means nothing. If anything all it does is make your perspective even less realistic. This isn't Peru and we're not doing charity work. This is the US and $1800 for a months work here is rubbish.
:D I'm obviously not appealing to a moral highground, I just wanted to point at that I DO know how it is to have a job monetarily even worse than McDonalds, and that it is okay to gain less if you do something out of love and dedication, in Destiny's case for a sport he loves. You do not need full recompensation for something you do out of reasons like that.
I think you should add twitch revenue, youtube revenue and the promotion of your brand to make sure everything is on the table. The revenue isn't huge but it's a part of it. And the promotion of your brand... you could keep taking small fees for hosting tournaments while building an empire that you eventually use to make a lot of money or for leverage. I'd definitely consider that part of this all although you can't quantify it.
edit: Also the whole discussion of whether $1800 is reasonable for the work seems a bit ridiculous in light of the work:pay ratio that progamers have haha
EPT
