|
On August 18 2014 03:15 Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 01:50 DrCooper wrote:On August 18 2014 01:35 Technique wrote:
Why would all the best players have to join this small tournament... especially when it's crowd funded and the organizer pockets the sponsor money himself...
The Kespa mail is 100% correct... Destiny just wanted them so he could pocket even more sponsor money. Who would lose something if Kespa did allow their players to participate? The players wouldn't lose anything (except time), Kespa wouldn't lose anything. It is literally a win-win. Kespa-Players have the opportunity to earn some money, Destiny might have earned a little more, we would have had even better games. Over saturation. Would make their players attending tournaments be less special... hence potential loss in viewers on the tournaments that are more important to them. Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 02:10 Xiphos wrote:On August 18 2014 02:03 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
whats wrong with making money anyways? Because many people here thinks that this is a "game" and its only for "shits and giggles" instead of being professional. This is why "esport" isn't being taken seriously, its because of many people on this thread thinking that everything is done freely instead of thinking about longevity. Making money is fine... but taking all the sponsorship money from a crowd funded tournament seems shady to me. It's also not like he took a risk investing in a tournament which then becomes a success and earns him some money. Also at the end of the day it's Kespas decision... And posting a private email because you didn't get your way is very unprofessional as well.
It wasn't under NDA, he didn't do anything wrong.
As far as I'm concerned, he made 1.8k from his stream.
Those guys that have gave him money are perfectly knowledgeable that he might either pocket the money or put it in the next tourney (he said it multiple of times on Unfiltered).
|
Great to see how everything broke down and what you are feeling.
On the Kespa note. I think for the next even you should invite only 1 maybe 2 kespa players and see what kind of impact those players actually have on the viewership. Then you can decide if they are really worth it for your tournament.
|
On August 18 2014 04:53 yawnoC wrote:
Great to see how everything broke down and what you are feeling.
On the Kespa note. I think for the next even you should invite only 1 maybe 2 kespa players and see what kind of impact those players actually have on the viewership. Then you can decide if they are really worth it for your tournament.
Destiny said that he isn't inviting Kespa players period.
And I think that's fair enough.
|
I like the "2014 Destiny". Whenever I heard destiny actually get into genuine debates on SC2 strategy or balance, I was always impressed. Then when I heard him elsewhere, I really didn't like him.
This is an awesome turn around, and I love the transparency going on. Also - 6 days of casting for ~$1800 is not exactly world shattering (sure, if you got it every day for 365 days a year it would be good, but that is not how an "event driven" career works) - I'd say actually that you just forgot to pay yourself for the preparation Destiny!
On the kespa front - if every competition had all the Kespa players, it would just look like every other competition...
|
It's great that everything worked out fine. And on top of that 1 more tournament! Great job!
|
On August 17 2014 23:41 Crot4le wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2014 23:05 JazVM wrote:On August 17 2014 21:50 Crot4le wrote:On August 15 2014 13:10 TheDraken wrote:On August 15 2014 01:42 KaiserJohan wrote:On August 15 2014 01:10 Destiny wrote:On August 15 2014 00:49 LeeJohnDong wrote:On August 15 2014 00:01 KanoCoke wrote:
"WE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THE SPONSORSHIP MONEY BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT ALLOWED FOR IT TO HAPPEN!" is a deluded opinion that entitled people who likely didn't even contribute to the Indiegogo have. It wasn't you guys that made the sponsors want to get on-board with Destiny. Destiny himself was as much of a factor as the actual donators.
Seriously, this thread is filled with nutjobs. Dude. Seriously. Just read the thread. I didnt donate, as I hate his attitude as a person and I kinda seen something like this coming. I mean, from his past and reputation, do you honestly think he didnt do this just to make money?? meh.. Deluded is thinking this was a selfless act to "save e-sports" and not for personal gain. I'm glad at least one person sees that here. Peace You've had some of the funniest posts in this thread, just FYI. "I seen something like this coming"...seen something like what coming? Me 100% fulfilling my promise that I would use 100% of the funds raised from the Indiegogo to pay for the tournament? Because I did. Also the argument that "he got sponsorships off the back of the Indiegogo" lol wat..? I would have gotten sponsorships regardless, they didn't ask me how the fucking Indiegogo was doing. What if I did a $5,000 tournament with 0 crowd funding and got $10,000 in sponsorships? Would it suddenly be okay for me to keep $5k extra? What if I did a crowd funded tournament and got more subscribers or personal donations or viewers or something "because of the crowd funding"? Should I forward all of that money "back to the community"? Also, please, grow the fuck up. I know being 17 years old and jobless is cool and all, but stop demonizing people who want to make some fucking money. Did I want to make money during this tournament? Yeah, of course, otherwise it's not worth (in a monetary sense) my time, I have to be compensated if you ever want me to put on tournaments like this. Grow the fuck up. You are never going to convince these people, but you probably already know most of us feel you are very much entitled to that money, and probably should've deserved more. Just leave this topic be, what needs to be said already has, and set focus on Destiny 2  lol seriously. i totally would have been okay with destiny making 3x as much as he did off the tournament. for several days of preparation and 6 days of actual tournament casting, $1800 is a pretty humble take home pay. people who rage about what he earned clearly don't pay their own bills. Oh puh-lease. People keep talking about how this tournament is several days preparation. I just don't see how it could take 24 hours to organise. I don't care if I get warned or banned for this, but your post is completely laughable. I just don't see you having the slightest idea of what you are talking about. Have you ever organized some kind of event? Yes, not a StarCraft event but I have organised things which take a fuck of a lot of work. Mainly kids camps which require sorting out transportation, program planning, getting out medical forms, making a menu for the week, writing a risk assessment (which can be up to 20-40 pages), sorting out kit/equipment and that doesn't even scratch the surface. Yet comments on here (not TheDraken to be fair, he only said several days) are talking about this taking up to a week or month to organise. I'm sorry but that's way off. Granted you can't just snap your fingers and it's done but people are massively overestimating/exaggerating the work it takes to organise an online StarCraft tournament.
Your figures as already pointed out are grossly off. This coming from someone who has actually organized SCII tournaments mind you. I personally just helping with a few that I organized, can say it takes a lot of work.
Lead time up to the event where anyone could sign up (meaning no need to talk to players before hand) was at least a weeks worth of work. Slightly sooner if you consider putting together advertising for said tournament.
You have a plethora of things to put into place, you have to figure out timing, coordinate that so you try not to overlap other tournaments. You have to put together other commentators, you need to make sure you have needed graphics in the case of dealing with sponsors. You have to get all of the broadcast things setup and put correctly into place, make sure they work etc before the day of. You add in talking to players to get them on board for invitations, deal with any concerns the players have etc. You could be easily spending at minimum 3 to 4 hours a day all the way up to a tournament just dealing with people and making sure everything is moving at a pace to be ready for tournament day.
In the case of a tournament like he ran, he did invitations, which means dealing with all his invited players, then finding and contacting and dealing with any that said no that he had to replace. Talking to what small amount of sponsors he had to sell the product to them, along with deal with any worries or needs they may have had. Then there is the whole deal of setting up and keeping track of the donation end. Getting a hold of someone to do all the art work, then making sure it looks right. Setting up a broadcast interface and making sure whoever was going to broadcast and cast had those things. Deciding small things from the start such as how to run the tournament, what will make players happy, what will make viewers happy. Talking to all those people up to the onset of the tournament to make sure everything would in theory go off without a hitch.
Then by the time you get to day of the work isn't done just because you're going to commentate. You still have to make sure the internet works so you can broadcast, you have to make sure your interfaces work properly. You have to have a clue about the players your casting to talk intelligently about the players. Then still work with players and commentators and any admins during all this to make sure the tournament progresses along as planned.
I've done these for little to no pay, I quit doing them why? Because even doing largely commentary it's all a crap load of work I could of spent at a job job, and gotten 100% more appreciation and financial pay out for all the work put in. I work a normal job make around 1500 bucks for 2 weeks worth of work and have little to no responsibility for anything outside of when I'm physically there. If you'd think his take home of 1800 wasn't justified when his future in being able to do these is at stake and the time that went into producing it...then you are the exact type of people who prevent anything in regards to esports to becoming any kind of a practical work path and anything more then a passion project for all future people to come.
|
On August 17 2014 21:50 Crot4le wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2014 13:10 TheDraken wrote:On August 15 2014 01:42 KaiserJohan wrote:On August 15 2014 01:10 Destiny wrote:On August 15 2014 00:49 LeeJohnDong wrote:On August 15 2014 00:01 KanoCoke wrote:
"WE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THE SPONSORSHIP MONEY BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT ALLOWED FOR IT TO HAPPEN!" is a deluded opinion that entitled people who likely didn't even contribute to the Indiegogo have. It wasn't you guys that made the sponsors want to get on-board with Destiny. Destiny himself was as much of a factor as the actual donators.
Seriously, this thread is filled with nutjobs. Dude. Seriously. Just read the thread. I didnt donate, as I hate his attitude as a person and I kinda seen something like this coming. I mean, from his past and reputation, do you honestly think he didnt do this just to make money?? meh.. Deluded is thinking this was a selfless act to "save e-sports" and not for personal gain. I'm glad at least one person sees that here. Peace You've had some of the funniest posts in this thread, just FYI. "I seen something like this coming"...seen something like what coming? Me 100% fulfilling my promise that I would use 100% of the funds raised from the Indiegogo to pay for the tournament? Because I did. Also the argument that "he got sponsorships off the back of the Indiegogo" lol wat..? I would have gotten sponsorships regardless, they didn't ask me how the fucking Indiegogo was doing. What if I did a $5,000 tournament with 0 crowd funding and got $10,000 in sponsorships? Would it suddenly be okay for me to keep $5k extra? What if I did a crowd funded tournament and got more subscribers or personal donations or viewers or something "because of the crowd funding"? Should I forward all of that money "back to the community"? Also, please, grow the fuck up. I know being 17 years old and jobless is cool and all, but stop demonizing people who want to make some fucking money. Did I want to make money during this tournament? Yeah, of course, otherwise it's not worth (in a monetary sense) my time, I have to be compensated if you ever want me to put on tournaments like this. Grow the fuck up. You are never going to convince these people, but you probably already know most of us feel you are very much entitled to that money, and probably should've deserved more. Just leave this topic be, what needs to be said already has, and set focus on Destiny 2 lol seriously. i totally would have been okay with destiny making 3x as much as he did off the tournament. for several days of preparation and 6 days of actual tournament casting, $1800 is a pretty humble take home pay. people who rage about what he earned clearly don't pay their own bills. Oh puh-lease. People keep talking about how this tournament is several days preparation. I just don't see how it could take 24 hours to organise.
Right because everyone would have been totally set to go if he just messaged the players, co-casters, and sponsors and told them "hey i'm having this tournament in a couple days, so please show up."
He has to talk to the players and make sure they are available for the tournament.
He has to address individual concerns/conflicts (which there always are).
He has to talk to possible co-casters and ask them if they're available.
He has to negotiate with sponsors about money, branding, plugging, and answer any of their concerns about the tournament.
He has to design artwork and develop templates for his stream.
He has to create playlists for the intermissions.
He has to create the brackets and determine which matches will be played when.
He has to advertise for his tournament.
That doesn't even account for the time you have to devote to idea generation, which will often require multiple changes before you arrive at the best plan and structure for the tournament.
You can't just do that all in one day. People don't respond immediately to messages. Sponsors tell you "I'll have to run this by management first". People ask what other people are doing before agreeing to stuff. Other people will bail on you.
To say that all that is a day's worth of work is ridiculous.
|
On August 19 2014 05:42 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2014 21:50 Crot4le wrote:On August 15 2014 13:10 TheDraken wrote:On August 15 2014 01:42 KaiserJohan wrote:On August 15 2014 01:10 Destiny wrote:On August 15 2014 00:49 LeeJohnDong wrote:On August 15 2014 00:01 KanoCoke wrote:
"WE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THE SPONSORSHIP MONEY BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT ALLOWED FOR IT TO HAPPEN!" is a deluded opinion that entitled people who likely didn't even contribute to the Indiegogo have. It wasn't you guys that made the sponsors want to get on-board with Destiny. Destiny himself was as much of a factor as the actual donators.
Seriously, this thread is filled with nutjobs. Dude. Seriously. Just read the thread. I didnt donate, as I hate his attitude as a person and I kinda seen something like this coming. I mean, from his past and reputation, do you honestly think he didnt do this just to make money?? meh.. Deluded is thinking this was a selfless act to "save e-sports" and not for personal gain. I'm glad at least one person sees that here. Peace You've had some of the funniest posts in this thread, just FYI. "I seen something like this coming"...seen something like what coming? Me 100% fulfilling my promise that I would use 100% of the funds raised from the Indiegogo to pay for the tournament? Because I did. Also the argument that "he got sponsorships off the back of the Indiegogo" lol wat..? I would have gotten sponsorships regardless, they didn't ask me how the fucking Indiegogo was doing. What if I did a $5,000 tournament with 0 crowd funding and got $10,000 in sponsorships? Would it suddenly be okay for me to keep $5k extra? What if I did a crowd funded tournament and got more subscribers or personal donations or viewers or something "because of the crowd funding"? Should I forward all of that money "back to the community"? Also, please, grow the fuck up. I know being 17 years old and jobless is cool and all, but stop demonizing people who want to make some fucking money. Did I want to make money during this tournament? Yeah, of course, otherwise it's not worth (in a monetary sense) my time, I have to be compensated if you ever want me to put on tournaments like this. Grow the fuck up. You are never going to convince these people, but you probably already know most of us feel you are very much entitled to that money, and probably should've deserved more. Just leave this topic be, what needs to be said already has, and set focus on Destiny 2 lol seriously. i totally would have been okay with destiny making 3x as much as he did off the tournament. for several days of preparation and 6 days of actual tournament casting, $1800 is a pretty humble take home pay. people who rage about what he earned clearly don't pay their own bills. Oh puh-lease. People keep talking about how this tournament is several days preparation. I just don't see how it could take 24 hours to organise. Right because everyone would have been totally set to go if he just messaged the players, co-casters, and sponsors and told them "hey i'm having this tournament in a couple days, so please show up." He has to talk to the players and make sure they are available for the tournament. He has to address individual concerns/conflicts (which there always are). He has to talk to possible co-casters and ask them if they're available. He has to negotiate with sponsors about money, branding, plugging, and answer any of their concerns about the tournament. He has to design artwork and develop templates for his stream. He has to create playlists for the intermissions. He has to create the brackets and determine which matches will be played when. He has to advertise for his tournament. That doesn't even account for the time you have to devote to idea generation, which will often require multiple changes before you arrive at the best plan and structure for the tournament. You can't just do that all in one day. People don't respond immediately to messages. Sponsors tell you "I'll have to run this by management first". People ask what other people are doing before agreeing to stuff. Other people will bail on you. To say that all that is a day's worth of work is ridiculous.
Not saying that I agree with the guy you quoted, but as far as I know, he was approached by the sponsors and not vice versa, so I doubt that he spend as much time with the sponsors as you normally would. Also, he had somebody helping him out with the artwork and an admin, though I think the administrative duties were restricted to the playdays.
|
On August 18 2014 05:17 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 04:53 yawnoC wrote:
Great to see how everything broke down and what you are feeling.
On the Kespa note. I think for the next even you should invite only 1 maybe 2 kespa players and see what kind of impact those players actually have on the viewership. Then you can decide if they are really worth it for your tournament. Destiny said that he isn't inviting Kespa players period. And I think that's fair enough.
That's not what he said on Unfiltered. He said he would most likely go to the same teams for Destiny II and consider Kespa in the future. Destiny is a smart guy. He's not closing any doors.
|
On August 19 2014 07:19 TRaFFiC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 05:17 Xiphos wrote:On August 18 2014 04:53 yawnoC wrote:
Great to see how everything broke down and what you are feeling.
On the Kespa note. I think for the next even you should invite only 1 maybe 2 kespa players and see what kind of impact those players actually have on the viewership. Then you can decide if they are really worth it for your tournament. Destiny said that he isn't inviting Kespa players period. And I think that's fair enough. That's not what he said on Unfiltered. He said he would most likely go to the same teams for Destiny II and consider Kespa in the future. Destiny is a smart guy. He's not closing any doors.
Didn't he say that he is also considering to just invite 1 or 2 (most likely the top two finishers of Destiny I) and let the rest qualify through ladder? That would be awesome, in my opinion! :D
|
I stopped watching WCS so I could watch your tournament, it was by far more entertaining (to me at least), and the games were good as well. You and InControl I think was my favorite casting duo, the tangents you guys went on were spectacular and got me laughing quite a bit. Great job Destiny! Keep it up! I hope you make a Destiny 2!
THANK YOU SO MUCH for your no spoiler naming system on Youtube, fucking hell that was refreshing to not have to constantly put my hand up to block areas of my screen so I didn't see if there were 2 matches or 3 matches in a best of 3, etc.
LOVE the transparency you've had throughout, having someone tell you exactly where money is going, and allow the community to cast their vote on changes that you are thinking about making feels so damn good. Makes me have absolute confidence in you and your tournament.
Only critique I have is about the production, as in the delays in starting the matches etc. But I know you'll figure those out and it's just a learning experience/shit that'll happen from time to time, so meh, more a "nudge nudge" then a critique. 
|
On August 19 2014 05:57 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 05:42 TheDraken wrote:On August 17 2014 21:50 Crot4le wrote:On August 15 2014 13:10 TheDraken wrote:On August 15 2014 01:42 KaiserJohan wrote:On August 15 2014 01:10 Destiny wrote:On August 15 2014 00:49 LeeJohnDong wrote:On August 15 2014 00:01 KanoCoke wrote:
"WE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THE SPONSORSHIP MONEY BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT ALLOWED FOR IT TO HAPPEN!" is a deluded opinion that entitled people who likely didn't even contribute to the Indiegogo have. It wasn't you guys that made the sponsors want to get on-board with Destiny. Destiny himself was as much of a factor as the actual donators.
Seriously, this thread is filled with nutjobs. Dude. Seriously. Just read the thread. I didnt donate, as I hate his attitude as a person and I kinda seen something like this coming. I mean, from his past and reputation, do you honestly think he didnt do this just to make money?? meh.. Deluded is thinking this was a selfless act to "save e-sports" and not for personal gain. I'm glad at least one person sees that here. Peace You've had some of the funniest posts in this thread, just FYI. "I seen something like this coming"...seen something like what coming? Me 100% fulfilling my promise that I would use 100% of the funds raised from the Indiegogo to pay for the tournament? Because I did. Also the argument that "he got sponsorships off the back of the Indiegogo" lol wat..? I would have gotten sponsorships regardless, they didn't ask me how the fucking Indiegogo was doing. What if I did a $5,000 tournament with 0 crowd funding and got $10,000 in sponsorships? Would it suddenly be okay for me to keep $5k extra? What if I did a crowd funded tournament and got more subscribers or personal donations or viewers or something "because of the crowd funding"? Should I forward all of that money "back to the community"? Also, please, grow the fuck up. I know being 17 years old and jobless is cool and all, but stop demonizing people who want to make some fucking money. Did I want to make money during this tournament? Yeah, of course, otherwise it's not worth (in a monetary sense) my time, I have to be compensated if you ever want me to put on tournaments like this. Grow the fuck up. You are never going to convince these people, but you probably already know most of us feel you are very much entitled to that money, and probably should've deserved more. Just leave this topic be, what needs to be said already has, and set focus on Destiny 2 lol seriously. i totally would have been okay with destiny making 3x as much as he did off the tournament. for several days of preparation and 6 days of actual tournament casting, $1800 is a pretty humble take home pay. people who rage about what he earned clearly don't pay their own bills. Oh puh-lease. People keep talking about how this tournament is several days preparation. I just don't see how it could take 24 hours to organise. Right because everyone would have been totally set to go if he just messaged the players, co-casters, and sponsors and told them "hey i'm having this tournament in a couple days, so please show up." He has to talk to the players and make sure they are available for the tournament. He has to address individual concerns/conflicts (which there always are). He has to talk to possible co-casters and ask them if they're available. He has to negotiate with sponsors about money, branding, plugging, and answer any of their concerns about the tournament. He has to design artwork and develop templates for his stream. He has to create playlists for the intermissions. He has to create the brackets and determine which matches will be played when. He has to advertise for his tournament. That doesn't even account for the time you have to devote to idea generation, which will often require multiple changes before you arrive at the best plan and structure for the tournament. You can't just do that all in one day. People don't respond immediately to messages. Sponsors tell you "I'll have to run this by management first". People ask what other people are doing before agreeing to stuff. Other people will bail on you. To say that all that is a day's worth of work is ridiculous. Not saying that I agree with the guy you quoted, but as far as I know, he was approached by the sponsors and not vice versa, so I doubt that he spend as much time with the sponsors as you normally would. Also, he had somebody helping him out with the artwork and an admin, though I think the administrative duties were restricted to the playdays.
Agree 100% with Crot4le. Way over exaggerated workload, liasing with players and messing around with graphics and shit. I mean he would be sitting there on his computer anyway.. It's hardly "hard work". And, he had help? I wonder how much of that 1800 he shared with them.
+ Show Spoiler + :D
|
On August 19 2014 07:28 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2014 07:19 TRaFFiC wrote:On August 18 2014 05:17 Xiphos wrote:On August 18 2014 04:53 yawnoC wrote:
Great to see how everything broke down and what you are feeling.
On the Kespa note. I think for the next even you should invite only 1 maybe 2 kespa players and see what kind of impact those players actually have on the viewership. Then you can decide if they are really worth it for your tournament. Destiny said that he isn't inviting Kespa players period. And I think that's fair enough. That's not what he said on Unfiltered. He said he would most likely go to the same teams for Destiny II and consider Kespa in the future. Destiny is a smart guy. He's not closing any doors. Didn't he say that he is also considering to just invite 1 or 2 (most likely the top two finishers of Destiny I) and let the rest qualify through ladder? That would be awesome, in my opinion! :D
Yeah some invites and some from ladder just like Destiny I. If you ask me, the ladder invites are genius. More tournaments need to do this. What better place to find deserving invites than the top of the ladder. Imagine a Korean tournament with the top 5 from ladder invited. Talk about epic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
