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On August 13 2014 15:22 Chuddinater wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2014 13:33 Destiny wrote:On August 13 2014 07:06 B-rye88 wrote:
Money is fungible.
It is at best incorrect and at worst manipulative for you to state "All expenses were covered by crowd sourced funds, therefore the only money I took home was sponsor money" when reporting to the funding community, and community at large. Realistically, since total revenues were ~$7,800 and total crowd sourcing revenues were ~$6,000, your overall profit margin was $1,800 and therefore your profit margin from crowd sourcing revenues was $1,384 (18K * (60K/78K). I don't have a problem with this at all, but I don't like seeing you manipulate perceptions with spin like this.
I almost didn't bother to read the rest of your post (I kind of wish I didn't) because absolutely and ridiculously charged this language is, but I'll tackle it anyway. "All expenses were covered by crowd sourced funds" is entirely true. If I received 0 sponsors for this event, it wouldn't have mattered. Prize money and payments made to casters and workers were all 100% covered from crowd sourced funds. Had I received zero sponsors, I wouldn't have stolen money from the players or casters to pay myself. There is absolutely nothing false about my statement and I had announced sponsors weeks and weeks before this tournament ever went underway, even several times mentioning on various shows + my stream that "even if I don't reach my goal, I can supplement the crowd funding goal with the sponsorship money". Your math is cute, but you're acting like I'm taking my pay as a percentage of the overall raised money, which is absolutely not true, but rather more that I was scraping my pay off of the excess I was able to raise via sponsorships. I'm not taking any of the money that was raised extra from Indiegogo as I specifically stated that money would go towards the next tournament. There were plenty of different ways to word this post but you chose the absolute worst ways to do it, and you're spinning it out as though I've intentionally mislead and manipulated the community into feeding me more money, which is absolutely hilarious considering I am probably the single most transparent person in the entire community, except maybe TB. Please let me know if there's anyone else who's ever openly disclosed ad revenue + subscribers + money made via other revenue streams before. The insinuation that I would try to intentionally mislead the community and destroy ALL of the rapport I've built up over the years is fucking asinine, please. On August 13 2014 07:06 B-rye88 wrote:
ESPA
You are providing content. KESPA is, realistically, a supplier of inventory for high-end content. They own a monopoly on the biggest, baddest content on the market. You're expecting them to give you that for free, and reacting negatively that they won't. To be blunt, your post essentially is whining that they didn't see the purpose of sending their players to you.
The ways to win them over would be to grant them promotion in return, or by paying them, or by being big and bad enough that they view it in their players (and theirs) best interests because missing out on your dope-ass tournament would reflect poorly on them and their reputation.
They are the biggest player in the market. Deal with it.
To be honest, you may have already shot yourself in the foot with this public discussion. I don't know if I'd count on seeing any KESPA players in the future, regardless of your intentions or efforts. When I address a communique to someone and they share it publicly, I view it as outright fucking rude.
Their behavior was not selfish or greedy in the slightest. They are an organization centered on their own well being and the well being of their players; you cannot blame them for not catering to your interests.
That's fine. I would stake money that I will exist in the Starcraft 2 community longer than KeSPA will, considering how SC2 is doing in Korea, if you want to go that route. I provided plenty of legit reasoning here concerning why I disagree with their decision, but if you want it to boil down to "oh theyre the big bois u gotta just let them do watever lol" then that's cool, too, but you have to realize you aren't making any legitimate arguments, you're essentially just saying "well theyr big n bad so dey can do wat dey want lol". The fact that you would even insinuate that I would pay KeSPA to have their players in my tournament is fucking hilarious, in its own right. I would like to correct statements that Destiny made insinuating interest in Starcraft II e-sports is declining in Korea. Starcraft II Proleague this year saw massive growth from last year in viewership numbers, almost doubling, and the amount of people who have searched for it on naver, the most popular search engine in Korea, grew tremendously. After the finals Proleague was the number one searched topic on naver, which is huge considering naver has 75% of the market share in Korea. Starcraft II has seen massive growth this year and we hope to continue growing it. Regarding the size of the venue, the venue was not filled last year. This year it was a smaller venue, but it reached way past the maximum capacity of the venue. Because it was outside and in such a populated area many people walking by would stop and watch. Some of these people watched Broodwars in the past and they would stop and talk with their friends reminiscing about the Broodwar players of past and them playing when they were younger. It was an amazing event and an amazing location to hold the finals as well as grow interest for casual fans or people who do not watch Starcraft II at all.
There's too many organizations that started reporting how well they are doing and all the "growth" they had right before they went under. I'd be slightly more careful about what I say if I were you.
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On August 16 2014 04:05 vitruvia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2014 15:22 Chuddinater wrote:On August 13 2014 13:33 Destiny wrote:On August 13 2014 07:06 B-rye88 wrote:
Money is fungible.
It is at best incorrect and at worst manipulative for you to state "All expenses were covered by crowd sourced funds, therefore the only money I took home was sponsor money" when reporting to the funding community, and community at large. Realistically, since total revenues were ~$7,800 and total crowd sourcing revenues were ~$6,000, your overall profit margin was $1,800 and therefore your profit margin from crowd sourcing revenues was $1,384 (18K * (60K/78K). I don't have a problem with this at all, but I don't like seeing you manipulate perceptions with spin like this.
I almost didn't bother to read the rest of your post (I kind of wish I didn't) because absolutely and ridiculously charged this language is, but I'll tackle it anyway. "All expenses were covered by crowd sourced funds" is entirely true. If I received 0 sponsors for this event, it wouldn't have mattered. Prize money and payments made to casters and workers were all 100% covered from crowd sourced funds. Had I received zero sponsors, I wouldn't have stolen money from the players or casters to pay myself. There is absolutely nothing false about my statement and I had announced sponsors weeks and weeks before this tournament ever went underway, even several times mentioning on various shows + my stream that "even if I don't reach my goal, I can supplement the crowd funding goal with the sponsorship money". Your math is cute, but you're acting like I'm taking my pay as a percentage of the overall raised money, which is absolutely not true, but rather more that I was scraping my pay off of the excess I was able to raise via sponsorships. I'm not taking any of the money that was raised extra from Indiegogo as I specifically stated that money would go towards the next tournament. There were plenty of different ways to word this post but you chose the absolute worst ways to do it, and you're spinning it out as though I've intentionally mislead and manipulated the community into feeding me more money, which is absolutely hilarious considering I am probably the single most transparent person in the entire community, except maybe TB. Please let me know if there's anyone else who's ever openly disclosed ad revenue + subscribers + money made via other revenue streams before. The insinuation that I would try to intentionally mislead the community and destroy ALL of the rapport I've built up over the years is fucking asinine, please. On August 13 2014 07:06 B-rye88 wrote:
ESPA
You are providing content. KESPA is, realistically, a supplier of inventory for high-end content. They own a monopoly on the biggest, baddest content on the market. You're expecting them to give you that for free, and reacting negatively that they won't. To be blunt, your post essentially is whining that they didn't see the purpose of sending their players to you.
The ways to win them over would be to grant them promotion in return, or by paying them, or by being big and bad enough that they view it in their players (and theirs) best interests because missing out on your dope-ass tournament would reflect poorly on them and their reputation.
They are the biggest player in the market. Deal with it.
To be honest, you may have already shot yourself in the foot with this public discussion. I don't know if I'd count on seeing any KESPA players in the future, regardless of your intentions or efforts. When I address a communique to someone and they share it publicly, I view it as outright fucking rude.
Their behavior was not selfish or greedy in the slightest. They are an organization centered on their own well being and the well being of their players; you cannot blame them for not catering to your interests.
That's fine. I would stake money that I will exist in the Starcraft 2 community longer than KeSPA will, considering how SC2 is doing in Korea, if you want to go that route. I provided plenty of legit reasoning here concerning why I disagree with their decision, but if you want it to boil down to "oh theyre the big bois u gotta just let them do watever lol" then that's cool, too, but you have to realize you aren't making any legitimate arguments, you're essentially just saying "well theyr big n bad so dey can do wat dey want lol". The fact that you would even insinuate that I would pay KeSPA to have their players in my tournament is fucking hilarious, in its own right. I would like to correct statements that Destiny made insinuating interest in Starcraft II e-sports is declining in Korea. Starcraft II Proleague this year saw massive growth from last year in viewership numbers, almost doubling, and the amount of people who have searched for it on naver, the most popular search engine in Korea, grew tremendously. After the finals Proleague was the number one searched topic on naver, which is huge considering naver has 75% of the market share in Korea. Starcraft II has seen massive growth this year and we hope to continue growing it. Regarding the size of the venue, the venue was not filled last year. This year it was a smaller venue, but it reached way past the maximum capacity of the venue. Because it was outside and in such a populated area many people walking by would stop and watch. Some of these people watched Broodwars in the past and they would stop and talk with their friends reminiscing about the Broodwar players of past and them playing when they were younger. It was an amazing event and an amazing location to hold the finals as well as grow interest for casual fans or people who do not watch Starcraft II at all. There's too many organizations that started reporting how well they are doing and all the "growth" they had right before they went under. I'd be slightly more careful about what I say if I were you.
I'm sure Chud is really worried about jinxing Proleague from posting on TL. Maybe if he posted that it's doing badly, karma would triple the viewership instead.
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On August 14 2014 20:15 jcroisdale wrote:
fuck kespa in there arrogant asses
User was warned for this post
kespa has taken over the forum confirmed
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I cannot wait for Destiny II. I do not have a problems with destiny paying himself some $$$$ since it was his tournament.
As for Kespa, I do not care if Koreans participate in the tournament or not. I want the prize money to go to the NA players to help grow esports in NA.
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Expand to Dota 2 and make some real monies.
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On August 16 2014 09:38 asdfOu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2014 20:15 jcroisdale wrote:
fuck kespa in there arrogant asses
User was warned for this post kespa has taken over the forum confirmed
Yep, obviously this genius post reflects the community dialogue. Spewing out a mendacious and incoherent power stammer really helps our opinion of you, troll.
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On August 15 2014 13:10 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2014 01:42 KaiserJohan wrote:On August 15 2014 01:10 Destiny wrote:On August 15 2014 00:49 LeeJohnDong wrote:On August 15 2014 00:01 KanoCoke wrote:
"WE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THE SPONSORSHIP MONEY BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT ALLOWED FOR IT TO HAPPEN!" is a deluded opinion that entitled people who likely didn't even contribute to the Indiegogo have. It wasn't you guys that made the sponsors want to get on-board with Destiny. Destiny himself was as much of a factor as the actual donators.
Seriously, this thread is filled with nutjobs. Dude. Seriously. Just read the thread. I didnt donate, as I hate his attitude as a person and I kinda seen something like this coming. I mean, from his past and reputation, do you honestly think he didnt do this just to make money?? meh.. Deluded is thinking this was a selfless act to "save e-sports" and not for personal gain. I'm glad at least one person sees that here. Peace You've had some of the funniest posts in this thread, just FYI. "I seen something like this coming"...seen something like what coming? Me 100% fulfilling my promise that I would use 100% of the funds raised from the Indiegogo to pay for the tournament? Because I did. Also the argument that "he got sponsorships off the back of the Indiegogo" lol wat..? I would have gotten sponsorships regardless, they didn't ask me how the fucking Indiegogo was doing. What if I did a $5,000 tournament with 0 crowd funding and got $10,000 in sponsorships? Would it suddenly be okay for me to keep $5k extra? What if I did a crowd funded tournament and got more subscribers or personal donations or viewers or something "because of the crowd funding"? Should I forward all of that money "back to the community"? Also, please, grow the fuck up. I know being 17 years old and jobless is cool and all, but stop demonizing people who want to make some fucking money. Did I want to make money during this tournament? Yeah, of course, otherwise it's not worth (in a monetary sense) my time, I have to be compensated if you ever want me to put on tournaments like this. Grow the fuck up. You are never going to convince these people, but you probably already know most of us feel you are very much entitled to that money, and probably should've deserved more. Just leave this topic be, what needs to be said already has, and set focus on Destiny 2  lol seriously. i totally would have been okay with destiny making 3x as much as he did off the tournament. for several days of preparation and 6 days of actual tournament casting, $1800 is a pretty humble take home pay. people who rage about what he earned clearly don't pay their own bills.
Oh puh-lease. People keep talking about how this tournament is several days preparation. I just don't see how it could take 24 hours to organise.
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On August 17 2014 21:50 Crot4le wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2014 13:10 TheDraken wrote:On August 15 2014 01:42 KaiserJohan wrote:On August 15 2014 01:10 Destiny wrote:On August 15 2014 00:49 LeeJohnDong wrote:On August 15 2014 00:01 KanoCoke wrote:
"WE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THE SPONSORSHIP MONEY BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT ALLOWED FOR IT TO HAPPEN!" is a deluded opinion that entitled people who likely didn't even contribute to the Indiegogo have. It wasn't you guys that made the sponsors want to get on-board with Destiny. Destiny himself was as much of a factor as the actual donators.
Seriously, this thread is filled with nutjobs. Dude. Seriously. Just read the thread. I didnt donate, as I hate his attitude as a person and I kinda seen something like this coming. I mean, from his past and reputation, do you honestly think he didnt do this just to make money?? meh.. Deluded is thinking this was a selfless act to "save e-sports" and not for personal gain. I'm glad at least one person sees that here. Peace You've had some of the funniest posts in this thread, just FYI. "I seen something like this coming"...seen something like what coming? Me 100% fulfilling my promise that I would use 100% of the funds raised from the Indiegogo to pay for the tournament? Because I did. Also the argument that "he got sponsorships off the back of the Indiegogo" lol wat..? I would have gotten sponsorships regardless, they didn't ask me how the fucking Indiegogo was doing. What if I did a $5,000 tournament with 0 crowd funding and got $10,000 in sponsorships? Would it suddenly be okay for me to keep $5k extra? What if I did a crowd funded tournament and got more subscribers or personal donations or viewers or something "because of the crowd funding"? Should I forward all of that money "back to the community"? Also, please, grow the fuck up. I know being 17 years old and jobless is cool and all, but stop demonizing people who want to make some fucking money. Did I want to make money during this tournament? Yeah, of course, otherwise it's not worth (in a monetary sense) my time, I have to be compensated if you ever want me to put on tournaments like this. Grow the fuck up. You are never going to convince these people, but you probably already know most of us feel you are very much entitled to that money, and probably should've deserved more. Just leave this topic be, what needs to be said already has, and set focus on Destiny 2 lol seriously. i totally would have been okay with destiny making 3x as much as he did off the tournament. for several days of preparation and 6 days of actual tournament casting, $1800 is a pretty humble take home pay. people who rage about what he earned clearly don't pay their own bills. Oh puh-lease. People keep talking about how this tournament is several days preparation. I just don't see how it could take 24 hours to organise.
I don't care if I get warned or banned for this, but your post is completely laughable. I just don't see you having the slightest idea of what you are talking about. Have you ever organized some kind of event?
User was warned for this post
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On August 17 2014 23:05 JazVM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2014 21:50 Crot4le wrote:On August 15 2014 13:10 TheDraken wrote:On August 15 2014 01:42 KaiserJohan wrote:On August 15 2014 01:10 Destiny wrote:On August 15 2014 00:49 LeeJohnDong wrote:On August 15 2014 00:01 KanoCoke wrote:
"WE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THE SPONSORSHIP MONEY BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT ALLOWED FOR IT TO HAPPEN!" is a deluded opinion that entitled people who likely didn't even contribute to the Indiegogo have. It wasn't you guys that made the sponsors want to get on-board with Destiny. Destiny himself was as much of a factor as the actual donators.
Seriously, this thread is filled with nutjobs. Dude. Seriously. Just read the thread. I didnt donate, as I hate his attitude as a person and I kinda seen something like this coming. I mean, from his past and reputation, do you honestly think he didnt do this just to make money?? meh.. Deluded is thinking this was a selfless act to "save e-sports" and not for personal gain. I'm glad at least one person sees that here. Peace You've had some of the funniest posts in this thread, just FYI. "I seen something like this coming"...seen something like what coming? Me 100% fulfilling my promise that I would use 100% of the funds raised from the Indiegogo to pay for the tournament? Because I did. Also the argument that "he got sponsorships off the back of the Indiegogo" lol wat..? I would have gotten sponsorships regardless, they didn't ask me how the fucking Indiegogo was doing. What if I did a $5,000 tournament with 0 crowd funding and got $10,000 in sponsorships? Would it suddenly be okay for me to keep $5k extra? What if I did a crowd funded tournament and got more subscribers or personal donations or viewers or something "because of the crowd funding"? Should I forward all of that money "back to the community"? Also, please, grow the fuck up. I know being 17 years old and jobless is cool and all, but stop demonizing people who want to make some fucking money. Did I want to make money during this tournament? Yeah, of course, otherwise it's not worth (in a monetary sense) my time, I have to be compensated if you ever want me to put on tournaments like this. Grow the fuck up. You are never going to convince these people, but you probably already know most of us feel you are very much entitled to that money, and probably should've deserved more. Just leave this topic be, what needs to be said already has, and set focus on Destiny 2 lol seriously. i totally would have been okay with destiny making 3x as much as he did off the tournament. for several days of preparation and 6 days of actual tournament casting, $1800 is a pretty humble take home pay. people who rage about what he earned clearly don't pay their own bills. Oh puh-lease. People keep talking about how this tournament is several days preparation. I just don't see how it could take 24 hours to organise. I don't care if I get warned or banned for this, but your post is completely laughable. I just don't see you having the slightest idea of what you are talking about. Have you ever organized some kind of event?
Yes, not a StarCraft event but I have organised things which take a fuck of a lot of work. Mainly kids camps which require sorting out transportation, program planning, getting out medical forms, making a menu for the week, writing a risk assessment (which can be up to 20-40 pages), sorting out kit/equipment and that doesn't even scratch the surface.
Yet comments on here (not TheDraken to be fair, he only said several days) are talking about this taking up to a week or month to organise. I'm sorry but that's way off. Granted you can't just snap your fingers and it's done but people are massively overestimating/exaggerating the work it takes to organise an online StarCraft tournament.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On August 17 2014 23:41 Crot4le wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2014 23:05 JazVM wrote:On August 17 2014 21:50 Crot4le wrote:On August 15 2014 13:10 TheDraken wrote:On August 15 2014 01:42 KaiserJohan wrote:On August 15 2014 01:10 Destiny wrote:On August 15 2014 00:49 LeeJohnDong wrote:On August 15 2014 00:01 KanoCoke wrote:
"WE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THE SPONSORSHIP MONEY BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT ALLOWED FOR IT TO HAPPEN!" is a deluded opinion that entitled people who likely didn't even contribute to the Indiegogo have. It wasn't you guys that made the sponsors want to get on-board with Destiny. Destiny himself was as much of a factor as the actual donators.
Seriously, this thread is filled with nutjobs. Dude. Seriously. Just read the thread. I didnt donate, as I hate his attitude as a person and I kinda seen something like this coming. I mean, from his past and reputation, do you honestly think he didnt do this just to make money?? meh.. Deluded is thinking this was a selfless act to "save e-sports" and not for personal gain. I'm glad at least one person sees that here. Peace You've had some of the funniest posts in this thread, just FYI. "I seen something like this coming"...seen something like what coming? Me 100% fulfilling my promise that I would use 100% of the funds raised from the Indiegogo to pay for the tournament? Because I did. Also the argument that "he got sponsorships off the back of the Indiegogo" lol wat..? I would have gotten sponsorships regardless, they didn't ask me how the fucking Indiegogo was doing. What if I did a $5,000 tournament with 0 crowd funding and got $10,000 in sponsorships? Would it suddenly be okay for me to keep $5k extra? What if I did a crowd funded tournament and got more subscribers or personal donations or viewers or something "because of the crowd funding"? Should I forward all of that money "back to the community"? Also, please, grow the fuck up. I know being 17 years old and jobless is cool and all, but stop demonizing people who want to make some fucking money. Did I want to make money during this tournament? Yeah, of course, otherwise it's not worth (in a monetary sense) my time, I have to be compensated if you ever want me to put on tournaments like this. Grow the fuck up. You are never going to convince these people, but you probably already know most of us feel you are very much entitled to that money, and probably should've deserved more. Just leave this topic be, what needs to be said already has, and set focus on Destiny 2 lol seriously. i totally would have been okay with destiny making 3x as much as he did off the tournament. for several days of preparation and 6 days of actual tournament casting, $1800 is a pretty humble take home pay. people who rage about what he earned clearly don't pay their own bills. Oh puh-lease. People keep talking about how this tournament is several days preparation. I just don't see how it could take 24 hours to organise. I don't care if I get warned or banned for this, but your post is completely laughable. I just don't see you having the slightest idea of what you are talking about. Have you ever organized some kind of event? Yes, not a StarCraft event but I have organised things which take a fuck of a lot of work. Mainly kids camps which require sorting out transportation, program planning, getting out medical forms, making a menu for the week, writing a risk assessment (which can be up to 20-40 pages), sorting out kit/equipment and that doesn't even scratch the surface. Yet comments on here (not TheDraken to be fair, he only said several days) are talking about this taking up to a week or month to organise. I'm sorry but that's way off. Granted you can't just snap your fingers and it's done but people are massively overestimating/exaggerating the work it takes to organise an online StarCraft tournament.
The fact that you have organized other things does not make you an authority on Starcraft tournament organization. In terms of actual hours, organizing Destiny I may not have taken a week, but in between getting in contact with casters and players as well as setting up the things required to run the tournament, I find it absurd that you think it'd take anywhere near 24 hours.
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Why would all the best players have to join this small tournament... especially when it's crowd funded and the organizer pockets the sponsor money himself...
The Kespa mail is 100% correct... Destiny just wanted them so he could pocket even more sponsor money.
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On August 18 2014 01:35 Technique wrote:
Why would all the best players have to join this small tournament... especially when it's crowd funded and the organizer pockets the sponsor money himself...
The Kespa mail is 100% correct... Destiny just wanted them so he could pocket even more sponsor money.
Who would lose something if Kespa did allow their players to participate? The players wouldn't lose anything (except time), Kespa wouldn't lose anything. It is literally a win-win. Kespa-Players have the opportunity to earn some money, Destiny might have earned a little more, we would have had even better games.
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whats wrong with making money anyways?
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On August 18 2014 01:24 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On August 17 2014 23:41 Crot4le wrote:On August 17 2014 23:05 JazVM wrote:On August 17 2014 21:50 Crot4le wrote:On August 15 2014 13:10 TheDraken wrote:On August 15 2014 01:42 KaiserJohan wrote:On August 15 2014 01:10 Destiny wrote:On August 15 2014 00:49 LeeJohnDong wrote:On August 15 2014 00:01 KanoCoke wrote:
"WE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THE SPONSORSHIP MONEY BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT ALLOWED FOR IT TO HAPPEN!" is a deluded opinion that entitled people who likely didn't even contribute to the Indiegogo have. It wasn't you guys that made the sponsors want to get on-board with Destiny. Destiny himself was as much of a factor as the actual donators.
Seriously, this thread is filled with nutjobs. Dude. Seriously. Just read the thread. I didnt donate, as I hate his attitude as a person and I kinda seen something like this coming. I mean, from his past and reputation, do you honestly think he didnt do this just to make money?? meh.. Deluded is thinking this was a selfless act to "save e-sports" and not for personal gain. I'm glad at least one person sees that here. Peace You've had some of the funniest posts in this thread, just FYI. "I seen something like this coming"...seen something like what coming? Me 100% fulfilling my promise that I would use 100% of the funds raised from the Indiegogo to pay for the tournament? Because I did. Also the argument that "he got sponsorships off the back of the Indiegogo" lol wat..? I would have gotten sponsorships regardless, they didn't ask me how the fucking Indiegogo was doing. What if I did a $5,000 tournament with 0 crowd funding and got $10,000 in sponsorships? Would it suddenly be okay for me to keep $5k extra? What if I did a crowd funded tournament and got more subscribers or personal donations or viewers or something "because of the crowd funding"? Should I forward all of that money "back to the community"? Also, please, grow the fuck up. I know being 17 years old and jobless is cool and all, but stop demonizing people who want to make some fucking money. Did I want to make money during this tournament? Yeah, of course, otherwise it's not worth (in a monetary sense) my time, I have to be compensated if you ever want me to put on tournaments like this. Grow the fuck up. You are never going to convince these people, but you probably already know most of us feel you are very much entitled to that money, and probably should've deserved more. Just leave this topic be, what needs to be said already has, and set focus on Destiny 2 lol seriously. i totally would have been okay with destiny making 3x as much as he did off the tournament. for several days of preparation and 6 days of actual tournament casting, $1800 is a pretty humble take home pay. people who rage about what he earned clearly don't pay their own bills. Oh puh-lease. People keep talking about how this tournament is several days preparation. I just don't see how it could take 24 hours to organise. I don't care if I get warned or banned for this, but your post is completely laughable. I just don't see you having the slightest idea of what you are talking about. Have you ever organized some kind of event? Yes, not a StarCraft event but I have organised things which take a fuck of a lot of work. Mainly kids camps which require sorting out transportation, program planning, getting out medical forms, making a menu for the week, writing a risk assessment (which can be up to 20-40 pages), sorting out kit/equipment and that doesn't even scratch the surface. Yet comments on here (not TheDraken to be fair, he only said several days) are talking about this taking up to a week or month to organise. I'm sorry but that's way off. Granted you can't just snap your fingers and it's done but people are massively overestimating/exaggerating the work it takes to organise an online StarCraft tournament. The fact that you have organized other things does not make you an authority on Starcraft tournament organization. In terms of actual hours, organizing Destiny I may not have taken a week, but in between getting in contact with casters and players as well as setting up the things required to run the tournament, I find it absurd that you think it'd take anywhere near 24 hours.
I'd say that organizing a starcraft online tournament is less logistics but more communication. And communication can be a freakin' pain in the ass, especially with language barriers, different time zones and a helluva lot casters. If you go simply after time spent on actual work (i.e. speaking, chatting etc in this case) I'd still say you're over 24 hours spent, and if you take the waiting, the unsurety/unsureness (does that word exist in english?), nerves and graphical work into account.. no way that's a day's work only.
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On August 18 2014 02:03 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
whats wrong with making money anyways?
Because many people here thinks that this is a "game" and its only for "shits and giggles" instead of being professional.
This is why "esport" isn't being taken seriously, its because of many people on this thread thinking that everything is done freely instead of thinking about longevity.
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I think the KeSPA response was perfectly reasonable. This Destiny tournament project was entirely untested, being run by a fellow with little to no tournament organization experience, with no noteworthy corporate backing.
We are talking about a well-established organization with corporate sponsorships like Samsung, SKT, KT, Jin Air, etc. It would have been irresponsible for them to jump into what was essentially a gigantic, foreign-run question mark. It's highly unsurprising that they requested to see good results and a stable platform instead of risking their sponsors' reputations so flippantly.
You'd be much better off bringing in the KeSPA powerhouse now that you've proven your competence, rather than shooting yourself in the foot because you wanted them to blindly trust you instead of making a sound business decision on their part.
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It's cool, mates. Destiny II Electric Boogaloo sounds like it will be an EU extravaganza.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On August 18 2014 02:08 boxerfred wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 01:24 Zealously wrote:On August 17 2014 23:41 Crot4le wrote:On August 17 2014 23:05 JazVM wrote:On August 17 2014 21:50 Crot4le wrote:On August 15 2014 13:10 TheDraken wrote:On August 15 2014 01:42 KaiserJohan wrote:On August 15 2014 01:10 Destiny wrote:On August 15 2014 00:49 LeeJohnDong wrote:On August 15 2014 00:01 KanoCoke wrote:
"WE SHOULD DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THE SPONSORSHIP MONEY BECAUSE WE'RE THE ONES THAT ALLOWED FOR IT TO HAPPEN!" is a deluded opinion that entitled people who likely didn't even contribute to the Indiegogo have. It wasn't you guys that made the sponsors want to get on-board with Destiny. Destiny himself was as much of a factor as the actual donators.
Seriously, this thread is filled with nutjobs. Dude. Seriously. Just read the thread. I didnt donate, as I hate his attitude as a person and I kinda seen something like this coming. I mean, from his past and reputation, do you honestly think he didnt do this just to make money?? meh.. Deluded is thinking this was a selfless act to "save e-sports" and not for personal gain. I'm glad at least one person sees that here. Peace You've had some of the funniest posts in this thread, just FYI. "I seen something like this coming"...seen something like what coming? Me 100% fulfilling my promise that I would use 100% of the funds raised from the Indiegogo to pay for the tournament? Because I did. Also the argument that "he got sponsorships off the back of the Indiegogo" lol wat..? I would have gotten sponsorships regardless, they didn't ask me how the fucking Indiegogo was doing. What if I did a $5,000 tournament with 0 crowd funding and got $10,000 in sponsorships? Would it suddenly be okay for me to keep $5k extra? What if I did a crowd funded tournament and got more subscribers or personal donations or viewers or something "because of the crowd funding"? Should I forward all of that money "back to the community"? Also, please, grow the fuck up. I know being 17 years old and jobless is cool and all, but stop demonizing people who want to make some fucking money. Did I want to make money during this tournament? Yeah, of course, otherwise it's not worth (in a monetary sense) my time, I have to be compensated if you ever want me to put on tournaments like this. Grow the fuck up. You are never going to convince these people, but you probably already know most of us feel you are very much entitled to that money, and probably should've deserved more. Just leave this topic be, what needs to be said already has, and set focus on Destiny 2 lol seriously. i totally would have been okay with destiny making 3x as much as he did off the tournament. for several days of preparation and 6 days of actual tournament casting, $1800 is a pretty humble take home pay. people who rage about what he earned clearly don't pay their own bills. Oh puh-lease. People keep talking about how this tournament is several days preparation. I just don't see how it could take 24 hours to organise. I don't care if I get warned or banned for this, but your post is completely laughable. I just don't see you having the slightest idea of what you are talking about. Have you ever organized some kind of event? Yes, not a StarCraft event but I have organised things which take a fuck of a lot of work. Mainly kids camps which require sorting out transportation, program planning, getting out medical forms, making a menu for the week, writing a risk assessment (which can be up to 20-40 pages), sorting out kit/equipment and that doesn't even scratch the surface. Yet comments on here (not TheDraken to be fair, he only said several days) are talking about this taking up to a week or month to organise. I'm sorry but that's way off. Granted you can't just snap your fingers and it's done but people are massively overestimating/exaggerating the work it takes to organise an online StarCraft tournament. The fact that you have organized other things does not make you an authority on Starcraft tournament organization. In terms of actual hours, organizing Destiny I may not have taken a week, but in between getting in contact with casters and players as well as setting up the things required to run the tournament, I find it absurd that you think it'd take anywhere near 24 hours. I'd say that organizing a starcraft online tournament is less logistics but more communication. And communication can be a freakin' pain in the ass, especially with language barriers, different time zones and a helluva lot casters. If you go simply after time spent on actual work (i.e. speaking, chatting etc in this case) I'd still say you're over 24 hours spent, and if you take the waiting, the unsurety/unsureness (does that word exist in english?), nerves and graphical work into account.. no way that's a day's work only.
Poor phrasing on my part, I meant that it's silly to assume it wouldn't take a lot more than 24 hours
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On August 18 2014 01:50 DrCooper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 01:35 Technique wrote:
Why would all the best players have to join this small tournament... especially when it's crowd funded and the organizer pockets the sponsor money himself...
The Kespa mail is 100% correct... Destiny just wanted them so he could pocket even more sponsor money. Who would lose something if Kespa did allow their players to participate? The players wouldn't lose anything (except time), Kespa wouldn't lose anything. It is literally a win-win. Kespa-Players have the opportunity to earn some money, Destiny might have earned a little more, we would have had even better games.
Over saturation.
Would make their players attending tournaments be less special... hence potential loss in viewers on the tournaments that are more important to them.
On August 18 2014 02:10 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2014 02:03 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
whats wrong with making money anyways? Because many people here thinks that this is a "game" and its only for "shits and giggles" instead of being professional. This is why "esport" isn't being taken seriously, its because of many people on this thread thinking that everything is done freely instead of thinking about longevity.
Making money is fine... but taking all the sponsorship money from a crowd funded tournament seems shady to me.
It's also not like he took a risk investing in a tournament which then becomes a success and earns him some money.
Also at the end of the day it's Kespas decision...
And posting a private email because you didn't get your way is very unprofessional as well.
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Saying there was no risk to holding the tournament isn't true, if he hadn't secured any sponsors he wouldn't have any compensation for the time he put in, and if the tournament had been a disaster (poor production, delays, walkovers, low viewer numbers), it would have damaged his reputation and his chances of effectively holding further tournaments.
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EPT
