On August 12 2014 14:33 Chuddinater wrote: Hello Destiny,
I would like to go over some of the points you make.
A) I do not understand why you believe it is our duty to help grow your tournament. It is not like we prevent you from having a tournament we just prefer not to participate at this time.
In a very short-sighted, selfish way, you have no obligation to help any part of any scene grow, ever. But that's such an incredibly narrow and short-sighted view that I can't imagine this being said with 100% honesty. A bustling foreigner scene is as good for Korea as a bustling Korean scene is as good for everyone in the West, surely everyone here believes that, right? This doesn't seem to be the golden era BW days as it once was, where Korea can afford to blow off the rest of the world and operate 100% endemically, especially when SC2's popularity in Korea is dwindling so much compared to other games such as, say, League of Legends. Even FIFA Online 3/Sudden Attack rank well above Starcraft, and I'm not even sure if this metric is tracking SC2 or BW.
Only some 2500-3000 people attended the SPL finals, and while some people pass that off as a good number, it's pitiful compared to the live audience Brood War once had. Hell, even last year's Proleague finals for BW's venue of 7,000-10,000 was completely filled.
Also, I take issue with using "we" here, in regards to preference of participation. I'm pretty sure most of the KeSPA players would enjoyed the opportunity to play in an online tournament to compete for a $4,000 prize pool, especially against such an easy selection of opponents. The fact that your sponsorships take precedence over player preferences, though, makes it unlikely that they ever get to make such decisions on their own.
On August 12 2014 14:33 Chuddinater wrote: B) I'm going to be very blunt with this answer. Do you think KeSPA and our players are in such dire need for money that as long as there is a prize pool they will participate? If that was the case why would players like FlaSh and Maru decline invitations to tournaments even though KeSPA would pay for all their travel expenses? Prize money is great but it is not the end all for KeSPA players and their teams. Money is just one of the reasons players will participate in an event not the sole motivating factor.
I'll be very blunt in my response: yes.
Considering that MC has earned an average of 94,000 USD over the past 5 years and still decided to attend should be an indication of that. E-sports is a very, very short lived career. You are not paying anymore than a very small handful of players a sum of money great enough to carry them through the rest of their lives. If players like INnoVation and MC are willing to play for a $4,000 prize pool online, I'm sure there are KeSPA players that would have enjoyed the opportunity as well. But again, KeSPA is not about protecting player interests, first, it is about protecting sponsorship interests first.
On August 12 2014 14:33 Chuddinater wrote: Many people believe my comment about asking what KeSPA has to benefit from this tournament to mean that we are asking for money in return for our players to participate in Destiny I. We do no ask any tournament to give us any money in compensation for our players participating. We also don't take any of a player's prize money. What I was getting at was what benefit is there for SK Telecom or Jin Air for having players in this tournament. TB makes a great point on trying to make more incentives for Korean teams to participate by having separate Korean casts and open it up more to Korean viewers.
I can understand this. I just think it's sad that players in the East miss out on an opportunity to easily play games in a Western hosted online tournament. It's precluding them from growing their potential fan base, it's cutting them off from earning additional income and it's disparaging to fans in the West
Regardless, though, I do understand your decision making, and I appreciate you being as candid as you were here. I'm sorry if you find it rude for me to have posted the e-mail publicly but I find that going by "hearsay" leads to a lot of unnecessary rumors/chatter starting. I hope you can understand that as well as I can try to understand your point of view.
Again, I appreciate the candid response. I hope there's some point where your organization sees a benefit in providing players for my tournaments, assuming these arguments haven't destroyed the possibility.
Regarding future tournaments: will there still be invites? Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing everybody qualifying through the ladder. And with a tournament of at least 16 people, you are bound to get several big names anyways. Their names aren't big for no reason.
On August 12 2014 20:26 Destiny wrote: In a very short-sighted, selfish way, you have no obligation to help any part of any scene grow, ever.
Helping scene to grow and helping your tournament can be mutually exclusive. If they don't trust you for w/e reason, they might consider your tournament risky and prefer to avoid it completely. In that sense, they are helping the scene to grow (or not to shrink if you want).
On August 12 2014 20:26 Destiny wrote: In a very short-sighted, selfish way, you have no obligation to help any part of any scene grow, ever.
Helping scene to grow and helping your tournament can be mutually exclusive. If they don't trust you for w/e reason, they might consider your tournament risky and prefer to avoid it completely. In that sense, they are helping the scene to grow (or not to shrink if you want).
You just seem not to accept their decision.
He accepts the decision because there's nothing he can do. He doesn't accept the reason nor the person making the choice.
But all teams involved with KeSPA are aware of what they were getting into when signing with KeSPA.
Remember when a lot of people were shitting on Destiny for being a jerk? This "jerk" was able to organize and host one of the most successful tournaments this year. Congratulations, Destiny. Keep going, you're doing great work!
this tournament was run well, congratulations for that.
As for the KeSPA issue, I think it is more of a cultural issue. I can understand their underlying logic and the doubts they had. Hopefully they can be included in the next event.
Very interesting to see the finances and logistics of all this, I'm very glad (and grateful) Destiny decided to share it.
As for the Kespa email thing. Well, we've seen this all before between event organisers and teams. The whole Jessica Vs Slayers thing and Take Vs Axiom. Whenever something like that is posted publicly it rarely ends well. For the sake of professionalism and maintaining relationships I never think it's a good idea to post that kind of stuff in such a public and volatile domain (this is the internet, not exactly the most level-headed of people roam here).
Still, I guess it has opening a lot of peoples eyes to how the 'system' works in this media, and the resulting fanfair (not quite a shitstorm yet) has been entertaining.
On August 12 2014 21:31 virpi wrote: Remember when a lot of people were shitting on Destiny for being a jerk? This "jerk" was able to organize and host one of the most successful tournaments this year. Congratulations, Destiny. Keep going, you're doing great work!
Even he admitted, that Destiny 2014 organized the tournament, not Destiny 2011/2012, whom people were calling a jerk. Rightfully so, btw.
On August 12 2014 21:31 virpi wrote: Remember when a lot of people were shitting on Destiny for being a jerk? This "jerk" was able to organize and host one of the most successful tournaments this year. Congratulations, Destiny. Keep going, you're doing great work!
Even he admitted, that Destiny 2014 organized the tournament, not Destiny 2011/2012, whom people were calling a jerk. Rightfully so, btw.
He still is a jerk. Have you watched him stream ladder games lately? Every single loss ends with BM. People seem to like it, though.
On the other hand, I like his offensive jokes, lizard laughter and whatnot, and I feel like in this tournament Destiny wasn't as entertaining as he was during HSC. Maybe it was the stress, lack of sleep, the fact that it was a Skype call, or maybe he was trying to be "professional". I still really enjoyed the tournament, and hope that there's a Destiny II.
On August 12 2014 21:31 virpi wrote: Remember when a lot of people were shitting on Destiny for being a jerk? This "jerk" was able to organize and host one of the most successful tournaments this year. Congratulations, Destiny. Keep going, you're doing great work!
Even he admitted, that Destiny 2014 organized the tournament, not Destiny 2011/2012, whom people were calling a jerk. Rightfully so, btw.
He still is a jerk. Have you watched him stream ladder games lately? Every single loss ends with BM. People seem to like it, though.
On the other hand, I like his offensive jokes, lizard laughter and whatnot, and I feel like in this tournament Destiny wasn't as entertaining as he was during HSC. Maybe it was the stress, lack of sleep, the fact that it was a Skype call, or maybe he was trying to be "professional". I still really enjoyed the tournament, and hope that there's a Destiny II.
Doesn't matter if he is being a jerk or not, the point is that Destiny have been more beneficial than 90% of the "esport personalities"* out there.
On August 12 2014 20:26 Destiny wrote: I hope there's some point where your organization sees a benefit in providing players for my tournaments, assuming these arguments haven't destroyed the possibility.
So does this indicate Destiny will side with the 54% from his poll?
On the kespa thing: I think Destinys response (by posting it publicly) wasnt professional and maybe not what Kespa expected. I still hope theyre not mad about it. Destiny just started his tournament organizing career and has had great success with his first steps. He isnt someone that has done it for years (I assume). So I feel like he has a view thats closer to the viewer's perception. This seems to be very heplful for an organizer in some respects though. I hope that sooner or later, kespa players will be allowed to play.
what Id find to be especially fun: ask Kespa to send one player thats basically unknown to the foreign scene and give him a breakout chance. I would LOVE to watch this happen
I'm surprise you didn't ask TB how to get those Kespa players in. I remember watching 1 of chanmanv show not long before Destiny I, where all the other guys also mentioned how come TB can get those players in, and you can't.
But if I remember correctly you just brush it off. I thought you'd have asked TB later after the show how to get Kespa players involved, knowing Kespa is known for being strict with their players.
EPT
.
.
