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On July 09 2014 02:27 Vindicare605 wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of the Thor change.
It's going to make the unit annoying to use in TvT where it can serve a pretty important role of a Tank buster unit, this also makes the unit a huge liability to use vs Bio forces since they'll attack the Medivacs now by default.
It's simply replacing one kind of annoyance for another.
I am confused actually: Doesn't it attack banshee's before it attack tanks (?) At least it feels that way.
I would just have gone with faster movement speed/0 damage point on the Thor in order to increase it's micro potenital while making it easier to deal with Mutalisk harass late game.
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On July 09 2014 02:28 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 02:27 Vindicare605 wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of the Thor change.
It's going to make the unit annoying to use in TvT where it can serve a pretty important role of a Tank buster unit, this also makes the unit a huge liability to use vs Bio forces since they'll attack the Medivacs now by default.
It's simply replacing one kind of annoyance for another. I don't understand this change actually. Atm it does attack banshee's before it attack tanks (?) At least it feels that way.
They often attack lings/banes instead of mutas. It's probably a matter of what unit they see first.
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On July 09 2014 02:28 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 02:27 Vindicare605 wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of the Thor change.
It's going to make the unit annoying to use in TvT where it can serve a pretty important role of a Tank buster unit, this also makes the unit a huge liability to use vs Bio forces since they'll attack the Medivacs now by default.
It's simply replacing one kind of annoyance for another. I am confused actually: Doesn't it attack banshee's before it attack tanks (?) At least it feels that way. I would just have gone with faster movement speed/0 damage point on the Thor in order to increase it's micro potenital while making it easier to deal with Mutalisk harass late game.
Yes, it does so anyways, because of the bigger antiair range.
But now it will also attack banshees if it could attack a tank instead.
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On July 09 2014 02:28 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 02:27 Vindicare605 wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of the Thor change.
It's going to make the unit annoying to use in TvT where it can serve a pretty important role of a Tank buster unit, this also makes the unit a huge liability to use vs Bio forces since they'll attack the Medivacs now by default.
It's simply replacing one kind of annoyance for another. I don't understand this change actually. Atm it does attack banshee's before it attack tanks (?) At least it feels that way.
It depends what enters range first. Its ground attack is preferred at the moment if two available targets are both in range.
The reason Thors will often default to their AA attack is because the range on the AA attack is much longer.
With this change the AA will be the default attack if two available targets one ground and one air are both in range at the same time. AKA Zerglings vs Mutalisks.
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It's most likely needed until Tanks become more viable than their current state. Their original intention was to encourage more usage of siege tanks in TvZ, but the first nerf on their radius never really changed the state of the matchup. Tanks are just too unwieldy in a MMMM composition.
Given the track-record of Blizzard, they tend to advocate for larger changes in their test maps and then go for more moderate versions of the changes when implementing in. As this is really large AOE buff to Mines, I believe they are likely to tone it down when implementing it.
It depends what enters range first. Its ground attack is preferred at the moment if two available targets are both in range.
The reason Thors will often default to their AA attack is because the range on the AA attack is much longer.
With this change the AA will be the default attack if two available targets one ground and one air are both in range at the same time. AKA Zerglings vs Mutalisks.
Yeh I figured this. Probably not a good change as it will !@#$%^&* up the AI vs Medivacs. Not sure why they don't try out a movement speed around 2-2.25 instead. Alternatively, they could buff the splash damage of the Thor in a similar fashion as they plan to buff the Widow Mine (add a larger splash radius to the Thor but with a lower % damage so there still is a reward for magix boxing).
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Glad they didnt go with the Medivac change. Bio play does not need to be promoted more.
The Mine splash is interesting. So they want to make it larger? Like from 1.75 (thats how it is now I think correct me here if Im wrong) to 2?
The Thor change is interesting too. But I think they should decrease the AA attackspeed too. Thors still do pretty bad vs mutas. But I had a game some weeks ago where my opponent attacked with Broodlords and Mutas. I had Vikings and Thors. Instead of shooting the mutas they were busy shooting broodlings -_- . The attack priority should help in this type of situation.
Time Warp seems interesting too. Didnt thought they were coming up with that. But like DarkPlasmaBall mentioned above. Most battles feel that they are over before 15 secs. We will see.Funny thing is most Protoss players that I face use it even on Units that arent moving (tanks) or when I put my units on hold. They must think it lowers attackspeed too.
All in all very intersting changes.
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On July 09 2014 02:28 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 02:27 Vindicare605 wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of the Thor change.
It's going to make the unit annoying to use in TvT where it can serve a pretty important role of a Tank buster unit, this also makes the unit a huge liability to use vs Bio forces since they'll attack the Medivacs now by default.
It's simply replacing one kind of annoyance for another. I don't understand this change actually. Atm it does attack banshee's before it attack tanks (?) At least it feels that way.
Actually it makes a pretty big difference. In a MMMM plus thor composition, you no longer need to focus fire the flock of mutas which frees up potential APM for other actions such as increasing survivability of your marines. In TvT u'd mostly need to focus Tanks with your thors anyway or target down banshees, since that particular Thor you're building is a banshee deterrent for when you have no air superiority.
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+shields splash needs to be adjusted with such high radius splash. Widow mines are already pretty good in TvP and if the buff goes through they shouldn't just have TvZ in mind but think about TvP too (how many probes can a widow mine drop reasonably kill, how many zealots will a widow mine kill, etc).
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On July 09 2014 02:31 Tresher wrote:
Most battles feel that they are over before 15 secs.
So sad this is true. Would be nice if Blizzard "buffed" only the better players instead of allowing players to continue doing what they are doing.
Although I'd prefer more aggressive changes to forcefield and has nothing to do with this patch, halve forcefield time and energy cost, please.
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Better than last changes, but a much bigger Protoss nerf is needed.
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I really like the Thor change, simply because in tvz, it reduces some of the micro required in fights, for which Terran at every level should be thankful for.
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Random/dumb question but will a Thor now target a Colossus if a Protoss army engages it? Wondering if that High Impact payload mode could be useful..?
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On July 09 2014 02:20 Thezzy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 02:18 Big J wrote:
Noooooo... Why the fuck change my Thors to use their 8-16dps air attack over their 924819412785621784687dps ground attack? This is so fucked up. Are they even aware of their units stats at all??? Honestly it doesn't really matter all that much. If a Thor gets surrounded by lings and Mutas at the same time, you'll order them to attack the Mutas anyway. Whatever gets the priority is what you'll order them to attack. I do wonder if this would mean that Thors now prioritize Overlords/Overseers when you only give a general attack order.
Thors already like to attack Overlords/Overseers. Now that someone mentioned: Didnt they changed the attack priority against Medivacs a long time ago? So that they attack the things they should attack?
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Hm I wonder if that Thor change does anything.
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On July 09 2014 02:38 Tresher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 02:20 Thezzy wrote:On July 09 2014 02:18 Big J wrote:
Noooooo... Why the fuck change my Thors to use their 8-16dps air attack over their 924819412785621784687dps ground attack? This is so fucked up. Are they even aware of their units stats at all??? Honestly it doesn't really matter all that much. If a Thor gets surrounded by lings and Mutas at the same time, you'll order them to attack the Mutas anyway. Whatever gets the priority is what you'll order them to attack. I do wonder if this would mean that Thors now prioritize Overlords/Overseers when you only give a general attack order. Thors already like to attack Overlords/Overseers. Now that someone mentioned: Didnt they changed the attack priority against Medivacs a long time ago? So that they attack the things they should attack?
Yeah they did. Offensive units have higher attack priority. Casters like HTs and workers are usually ignored in presence of other 'assault' units provided they are in range.
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That's some big WM radius increase. Let's see how it works out.
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Canada8159 Posts
I am very happy about the time warp change
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On July 09 2014 02:38 Musicus wrote:
Hm I wonder if that Thor change does anything.
It doesn't, not at the higher levels anyway.
It just means that Thors when being mixed with Bio forces will default to attacking mutalisks but it also means they'll default to attacking Overlords, Overseers, and Medivacs in TvT which aren't necessarily what you always want.
Like I said before, it's just replacing one kind of annoyance for another.
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Can't they just make mutalisks high priority for Thors ? Otherwise Thors will again shoot overlords instead of roaches or medivacs instead of units (for instance).
I'm quite worried about the widow mine change. I'd have much preferred an increase of their general damage output vs Z (remove +shields and go for simple 125/80/40/20). That new widow mine would one shot probes in a radius of 2 and maybe put a nail in the coffin of templar openings (which some players still dare to use).
Time Warp change is the only thing I'm quite confident about, though I'd prefer to just see that spell gone. Seriously, Protoss don't need it in any situation other than twisted all-ins. Just build sentries.
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On July 09 2014 02:38 Code wrote:
Random/dumb question but will a Thor now target a Colossus if a Protoss army engages it? Wondering if that High Impact payload mode could be useful..?
I remember reading somewhere in past blizzard notes that the Thor will always consider the collossus as a ground target. Even if you switch to HIP, it still uses the dual cannons.
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EPT
