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On July 09 2014 03:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Here's something I've been thinking about recently. What if they buffed tanks vs gateway units specifically? As in: make zealots and stalkers psionic units (sentries already are) and then for example introduce a tank upgrade at the tech lab that increases damage output against psionic units.
Not only could that help vs blink stalker all ins and allow some more breathing room back for map makers, it could also let terrans punish a failed blink all in. Contain-based strategies could make a return, early aggression with tanks might be viable (1-1-1 ?!). Of course you'd have to play around with numbers and all to make sure it doesn't break things entirely. AND it would also help zone high templar in the lategame.
But if tanks were overall more powerful vs protoss, that would give people a reason to invest in vehicle upgrades earlier -> earlier upgrades for vikings -> better ability to deal with lategame colossus/protoss air transitions -> etc.etc.
Against zerg I see the problems mostly being their immobility and how easy it is to pick them apart with mutas.
They should give tanks a late game upgrade that either does more single target damage or +damage to shields. Also, buff Thor's AA damage against armored and change immortal's attack to a projectile so that PDD can stop it.
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Words can't describe how disappointed I am at the lack of a tank buff.
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Austria24420 Posts
If PDD stops immortal shots then mech becomes unbeatable.
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Tanks could be buffed with a generic damage upgrade at the Armory. (like the Maelstrom rounds in WoL campaign)
By tweaking primary target damage (for Protoss) vs splash damage (for Zerg) you could make the Tank more powerful against one without overpowering it against the other.
Splash damage is what makes most of the power vs Zerg and Terran so a higher primary damage could work.
Marines with Combat Shields have 55 HP vs Zerglings and Banelings having 35 HP and 30 HP.
By setting the splash damage to say...40, you could make it more powerful against Zerg without instantly vaporizing Marines.
The primary damage could go much higher as it doesn't have as much of an effect against Zerg or Terran than it would against Protoss.
Immortals would still be an issue, although theDwf's suggestion on that (reducing any damage above 20 by half rather than reducing it to 10) could help there.
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On July 09 2014 02:20 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 02:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
I wonder if thor priority will help (I'm Protoss so I don't know TvZ).
Lowering the time warp duration is interesting... I feel that most of the battle will already be over in 15 seconds (or, at least, the opponent will move out of the time warp during that time) so I feel like a decrease in the duration of photon overcharge would make more sense. Can't really nerf photon overcharge without ruining PvP again
Why all this concern about PvP, you're not changing races are you? 
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On July 09 2014 02:55 Tresher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 02:47 Faust852 wrote:
Everyone arguing about TW and Thors, but guys, the WM buff would be OP as fuck.
Ok for full damage in 1,5 instead of 1,25, that would be the middle between pre and post nerf, but going this far as doing AoE in 2,5 is freaking huge. The WM will be wayyy more OP than before its nerf. Banelings have pretty big splash too. Its 2.2 for such a cheap unit. And it does full damage in the WHOLE radius.
and banelings don't do friendly splash
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On July 09 2014 03:07 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:03 Ctone23 wrote:On July 09 2014 02:55 Tresher wrote:On July 09 2014 02:47 Faust852 wrote:
Everyone arguing about TW and Thors, but guys, the WM buff would be OP as fuck.
Ok for full damage in 1,5 instead of 1,25, that would be the middle between pre and post nerf, but going this far as doing AoE in 2,5 is freaking huge. The WM will be wayyy more OP than before its nerf. Banelings have pretty big splash too. Its 2.2 for such a cheap unit. And it does full damage in the WHOLE radius. I'm scared of the friendly fire WM splash coming my way. But why? + Show Spoiler +
nooooooo
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On July 09 2014 03:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:
If PDD stops immortal shots then mech becomes unbeatable.
If only Protoss had a spell that instakills any units with energy... oh wait, I remember its name starts with "F" or something.
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On July 09 2014 03:11 Thezzy wrote:
Tanks could be buffed with a generic damage upgrade at the Armory. (like the Maelstrom rounds in WoL campaign)
By tweaking primary target damage (for Protoss) vs splash damage (for Zerg) you could make the Tank more powerful against one without overpowering it against the other.
Splash damage is what makes most of the power vs Zerg and Terran so a higher primary damage could work.
Marines with Combat Shields have 55 HP vs Zerglings and Banelings having 35 HP and 30 HP.
By setting the splash damage to say...40, you could make it more powerful against Zerg without instantly vaporizing Marines.
The primary damage could go much higher as it doesn't have as much of an effect against Zerg or Terran than it would against Protoss.
Immortals would still be an issue, although theDwf's suggestion on that (reducing any damage above 20 by half rather than reducing it to 10) could help there.
They could also shift additional damage to vehicle upgrades affecting siege tanks. So for instance, tanks will do more with +1 than they did before with +1. That would be incredibly useful against later games and has a negligible impact in the early to mid game phase since armouries are usually built later in TvP or TvT.
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On July 09 2014 03:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Here's something I've been thinking about recently. What if they buffed tanks vs gateway units specifically? As in: make zealots and stalkers psionic units (sentries already are) and then for example introduce a tank upgrade at the tech lab that increases damage output against psionic units.
Not only could that help vs blink stalker all ins and allow some more breathing room back for map makers, it could also let terrans punish a failed blink all in. Contain-based strategies could make a return, early aggression with tanks might be viable (1-1-1 ?!). AND it would also help zone high templar in the lategame.
If tanks were overall more powerful vs protoss, that would give people a reason to invest in vehicle upgrades earlier -> earlier upgrades for vikings -> better ability to deal with lategame colossus/protoss air transitions -> etc.etc. Of course you'd have to play around with numbers and all to make sure it doesn't break things entirely.
Against zerg I see the problems mostly being their immobility and how easy it is to pick them apart with mutas.
two things.
first why the hell would you want one of the most boring units in the game to be buffed?
now for real, let's start theorycrafting.
let's say a toss is on top of his scouting > sees you go tanks > if he is not on tilt he will 100% not go for collossus, so no lategame collossus for terran to deal with, i guess the upgrades would be helpful in dealing with toss air, but toss air supported by HTs will not be broken by a terran and therefore in the later stages of the game we would get a toss containing a terran because of the tempests not the other way around.
i guess early terran agression (similar to 1/1/1) would be stronger but we see that already quite often maybe because of habitation station but i don't know if we need more of this.
i really disagree with buffing tanks. they would make for boring games and we already have enough boring games.
against zerg i agree with you they are just useless because of their immobility.
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Aren't widow mines going to be too strong vs Protoss? Since they already oneshot every gateway unit in the early game, 1 widow mine can potentially stop a gateway attack.
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Time warp is such a good change. Even being toss time warps last an absurdly long time, longer than most fights
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The Thor change seems rather odd and not needed.
I think i have a better idea:
-The Thor should have anti ground and anti air mode. It can either fire at air or at ground targets. You as the player have to switch modes. The transition would be similar to the tank or hellion an it would take around 4 seconds.
-The current high impact payload mode will be removed.
-The ground attack stays the same or maybe gets a small buff.
-The anti air mode gets a strong buff. Better air splash + higher single target damage
Effects:
When used as mutalisk defense in a base, a single thor in anti air mode would have more firepower.
In large fights the terran has to decide how many thors he needs in anti air or anti ground mode.
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On July 09 2014 03:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:
If PDD stops immortal shots then mech becomes unbeatable.
That's the problem with mech in TvP, imo. The Immortal is absolutely necessary for the Protoss to be able to deal with it, but the Immortal also hilariously overhardcounters mech.
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On July 09 2014 03:15 Loccstana wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:
If PDD stops immortal shots then mech becomes unbeatable. If only Protoss had a spell that instakills any units with energy... oh wait, I remember its name starts with "F" or something.
It's not easy to feedback ravens with templars that will get oneshotted by tanks.
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On July 09 2014 03:19 Extenz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2014 03:15 Loccstana wrote:On July 09 2014 03:10 DarkLordOlli wrote:
If PDD stops immortal shots then mech becomes unbeatable. If only Protoss had a spell that instakills any units with energy... oh wait, I remember its name starts with "F" or something. It's not easy to feedback ravens with templars that will get oneshotted by tanks.
Why does everything have to be easy for Protoss?
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Pretty satisfied with the changes overall ^^.
Timewarp nerf is really welcome. Can't stand that spell.
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On July 09 2014 03:17 Extenz wrote:
Aren't widow mines going to be too strong vs Protoss? Since they already oneshot every gateway unit in the early game, 1 widow mine can potentially stop a gateway attack.
sadly not.
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On July 09 2014 03:18 submarine wrote:
The Thor change seems rather odd and not needed.
I think i have a better idea:
-The Thor should have anti ground and anti air mode. It can either fire at air or at ground targets. You as the player have to switch modes. The transition would be similar to the tank or hellion an it would take around 4 seconds.
-The current high impact payload mode will be removed.
-The ground attack stays the same or maybe gets a small buff.
-The anti air mode gets a strong buff. Better air splash + higher single target damage
Effects:
When used as mutalisk defense in a base, a single thor in anti air mode would have more firepower.
In large fights the terran has to decide how many thors he needs in anti air or anti ground mode.
Interesting. Thors should really be looked at, but given Blizzard's tendencies, we're unlikely to see something that drastic to go through. So far outside of Beta patches, changes are limited to altering damage/speed/acceleration values rather than the intrinsic way of how units behave. Hopefully they realise Thors need to be addressed and this should be done properly with an adequate unit 'remake' in Lotv.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/s0tZnij.jpg)
