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Balance Test Map Soon July 8th - Page 30
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
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BlackCompany
Germany8388 Posts
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Socup
190 Posts
On July 11 2014 20:53 eusoc wrote: yep tell me how building 6 marines is such a huge investment. 6 Marines aren't a huge investment at 20 minutes... do you understand the term opening? That's 300 minerals. Add 100 more and get a CC instead for getting into the macro game. You know, since probes can be chrono and T has to sit scvs out every time they want to build something. Another CC early to keep pace is why CC first has become popular vs Z. It'd be done vs P too if there wasn't a risk of proxy gate. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3383 Posts
How "big" will the new WM splash radius be exactly? Can you kill an entire mineral line with 2 WMs? Assuming you target correctly so the splash doesnt overkill eachother. Talking about TvP btw One shot will kill Probes within a Fungal Growth AoE and deal 10+10 damage in an even bigger radius than Banelings. So to answer your question, yes they will kill your entire mineral line, with 2 well placed shots. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On July 12 2014 03:54 BlackCompany wrote: How "big" will the new WM splash radius be exactly? Can you kill an entire mineral line with 2 WMs? Assuming you target correctly so the splash doesnt overkill eachother. Talking about TvP btw Increase of 1.75 --> 2.5 radius on the outermost level, dealing 10 +10(shield), so theoretically two mines spaced correctly apart would have their outermost rings intersecting for 40 total damage, killing probes. ( I assume the damage would stack.) | ||
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Elendur
Canada43 Posts
Note: Something tells me that good Protoss players are going to maybe lose 1-2 probes per game to this. They will of course have gotten detection, and move their probes and/or micro a few into the mines. We've seen it before in early HOTS. Talking about having entire mineral lines wiped out is like saying that good Terrans always lose half of their only mineral line to the oracle - we make our 6 marines, turret and mine instead of losing most of our SCVs. | ||
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johnbongham
451 Posts
1. Scout that a possible drop is incoming 2. See the drop early with pylons/structures/units placed near the edge of the base 3. Pull probes before: A. The medivac finishes unloading B. The mines are completely burrowed C. The mine target timer initiates the explosion There is plenty of time to pull and split workers and it is even possible to cannon your mineral line prior to the drop even happening based off of good scouting information. If an oracle flies into my mineral line and I don't react right away, I can easily lose 10+ scvs. | ||
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Socup
190 Posts
On July 12 2014 04:24 johnbongham wrote: The chances of a quick mine drop having two perfectly placed mines that both go off in such a way that all the probes are destroyed is very unlikly and is definitely the result of a bad defense/reaction ont he part of the protoss player. The toss player can: 1. Scout that a possible drop is incoming 2. See the drop early with pylons/structures/units placed near the edge of the base 3. Pull probes before: A. The medivac finishes unloading B. The mines are completely burrowed C. The mine target timer initiates the explosion There is plenty of time to pull and split workers and it is even possible to cannon your mineral line prior to the drop even happening based off of good scouting information. If an oracle flies into my mineral line and I don't react right away, I can easily lose 10+ scvs. Yes but they don't see it that way. If something could happen terribly to them because of them just being exceptionally bad players (or minimizing SC2 to dick around something else), then it's overpowered. If a T could lose an entire game because of hampered intel or being just a tad late on reacting, then it's fair. TBH I think T's that complain about oracles have a short memory in their WoL days of banshee cheesing Z. The same complaint about having to blind make ebays is similar to Z complaining about having to blind make evos or extra queens and get early lair in case of cloak. It seems like round-robin hypocrisy to me, but that's why spores get to be made without evo chamber now. I also think oracle is bullshit. It's an auto-win or specific anti-oracle bulding by T which hobbles T advancement into the macro game. | ||
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BlackCompany
Germany8388 Posts
On July 12 2014 04:13 Ctone23 wrote: Increase of 1.75 --> 2.5 radius on the outermost level, dealing 10 +10(shield), so theoretically two mines spaced correctly apart would have their outermost rings intersecting for 40 total damage, killing probes. ( I assume the damage would stack.) On July 12 2014 04:05 ejozl wrote: One shot will kill Probes within a Fungal Growth AoE and deal 10+10 damage in an even bigger radius than Banelings. So to answer your question, yes they will kill your entire mineral line, with 2 well placed shots. thanks. Thats indeed quite a lot of damage though Ps will probably micro the probes away. Makes Zealot/Templer much worse too i guess :/ hopefully they reduce the +shields damage accordingly | ||
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Hider
Denmark9384 Posts
On July 12 2014 04:29 Socup wrote: Yes but they don't see it that way. If something could happen terribly to them because of them just being exceptionally bad players (or minimizing SC2 to dick around something else), then it's overpowered. If a T could lose an entire game because of hampered intel or being just a tad late on reacting, then it's fair. TBH I think T's that complain about oracles have a short memory in their WoL days of banshee cheesing Z. The same complaint about having to blind make ebays is similar to Z complaining about having to blind make evos or extra queens and get early lair in case of cloak. It seems like round-robin hypocrisy to me, but that's why spores get to be made without evo chamber now. I also think oracle is bullshit. It's an auto-win or specific anti-oracle bulding by T which hobbles T advancement into the macro game. Certainly I believe that removing the evo-requirement and reducing Cloak cost to 100/100 was a good decision. It makes the opening much less coinflippy and more about unit control. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3383 Posts
Increase of 1.75 --> 2.5 radius on the outermost level, dealing 10 +10(shield), so theoretically two mines spaced correctly apart would have their outermost rings intersecting for 40 total damage, killing probes. ( I assume the damage would stack.) Pretty sure this is not the case, since the first shot would remove 10 shield, then deal 10 damage, putting the Probe to 20 health/0 shield, which means the second shot won't deal +10 shield damage. Still devastating damage though  | ||
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Elendur
Canada43 Posts
And the reverse argument could also be made by the Terran, that if the Protoss is required to have made such a colossal effort to defend his mineral line(s) from two mines spotted on the minimap 6 seconds prior to detonating, it is only because the Terran has already invested a massive amount of resources to put the Medivac/mines into the sky with such early refinery timing... 350 gas for two dropped mines? (like the oracle 300/300 cost argument)  | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
Sated and Eusoc et al. are dragging the quality of the thread down majorly and consistently derail any conversation with their 'posts'. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
You can defend your race via discussion or just get the %%%% out. This is a discussion forum, go troll elsewhere. | ||
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Socup
190 Posts
On July 12 2014 04:37 Elendur wrote: Johnbongham is right. And the reverse argument could also be made by the Terran, that if the Protoss is required to have made such a colossal effort to defend his mineral line(s) from two mines spotted on the minimap 6 seconds prior to detonating, it is only because the Terran has already invested a massive amount of resources to put the Medivac/mines into the sky with such early refinery timing... 350 gas for two dropped mines? (like the oracle 300/300 cost argument) But it's not really the same because an unscouted and undefended oracle wins the game immediately. An unscouted WM drop can still be run away from, and since it doesn't shoot buildings or cloaked units, a cannon or observer will clean it up. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On July 12 2014 05:20 Socup wrote: But it's not really the same because an unscouted and undefended oracle wins the game immediately. An unscouted WM drop can still be run away from, and since it doesn't shoot buildings or cloaked units, a cannon or observer will clean it up. You can run from an oracle, run towards your marines and have the marines come back. Unscouted oracles usually get maybe 4-5 kills. That's damage certainly, not game ending damage. If by unscouted you actually meant unscouted and terran has no anti-air at all and got blind countered in his build, then that's also the fault of the terran for doing a bad build. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On July 12 2014 05:54 Whitewing wrote: You can run from an oracle, run towards your marines and have the marines come back. Unscouted oracles usually get maybe 4-5 kills. That's damage certainly, not game ending damage. If by unscouted you actually meant unscouted and terran has no anti-air at all and got blind countered in his build, then that's also the fault of the terran for doing a bad build. What if I didn't make Marines, I made Marauders? edit: so you're fine with Protoss getting two Cannons to shut down WM drops completely? That'll be a good build now. | ||
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Pursuit_
United States1330 Posts
On July 12 2014 06:28 pure.Wasted wrote: What if I didn't make Marines, I made Marauders? By Whitewing's logic, you don't have a choice because you play Terran. | ||
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Socup
190 Posts
On July 12 2014 06:28 pure.Wasted wrote: What if I didn't make Marines, I made Marauders? edit: so you're fine with Protoss getting two Cannons to shut down WM drops completely? That'll be a good build now. Nearly all protoss on Korean ladder seem to be making Pylon behind their minerals to build their WG or Cores anyway. Makes getting a cannon on reaction to WM drop even more intuitive. | ||
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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